"And I’m thinking you weren’t burdened with an overabundance of schooling."
November 11
2009
Dollhouse cancellation: Peeved or pleased?
Entertainment Weekly weighs in on the cancellation and wonders whether this may be a good thing or a bad thing.
CowboyCliche
| Dollhouse
| 15:25 CET
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79 comments total
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BlueSkies | November 11, 15:38 CET
From the beginning it was not a show for all to enjoy, but hey, I liked it. So peeved. But not as a suprise, just listen to the commentary tracks at the S1 DVD set.
To me, any episode beyond S1 is a prezzy and I'm looking forward to the remaining episodes, and the shiny dvd with loads of Commentary! Oh and do please bring out a new set of season one with more Commentary! Especially on "Stage Fright"
Krusher | November 11, 15:46 CET
mortimer | November 11, 15:50 CET
I did not like the show. Several things about it were hard-stop squicks for me, but I did get through the first season for a podcast project I'm doing.
That being said, why would I be *pleased*? I never watched it, so it was irrelevant to me.
BetNoir | November 11, 15:52 CET
Actually, I liked that episode, but I guess I'm a minority in that..
Krusher | November 11, 15:54 CET
But grateful that we at least still have nine more episodes to see of this amazing show.
CZGoldEdition | November 11, 15:59 CET
Emzzie | November 11, 15:59 CET
whyiwatch | November 11, 15:59 CET
Scaniano | November 11, 16:01 CET
xMadxScientistx | November 11, 16:02 CET
Even if that's not so, we might be able to pull a Dead Like Me and get a dvd/tv movie, or pull a Pushing Daisies and get a season three comic. I know the comic won't happen, but although 5 minutes ago (I just found out) I didn't want one, now I do. Hell, we could pull a Arrested Development/Firefly if the show dies and we go crazy on the dvd sales, which we WILL, guys/gals... right? We're not giving up?
Please... I'm done being sad, I wanna get pissed and work to save the show in any form we can. It's just... I dunno, nobody really seems to agree with me. If gossi were talking like me I might have some real hope.
[Edited to make readable, and also just saw Whyiwatch's comment, thank you so much for giving me some hope, please don't give up!]
[ edited by DeezyG on 2009-11-12 01:05 ]
[ edited by DeezyG on 2009-11-12 01:07 ]
DeezyG | November 11, 16:04 CET
Claudine_tVS | November 11, 16:07 CET
The Goose | November 11, 16:07 CET
Now that I've seen this season's episodes, however, I don't really disagree with Fox's decision. This season has been rocky and, with the exception of "Belonging", the episodes haven't been that stellar, in my opinion. So I'm just glad that FOX announced this sooner rather than later. Hopefully the writers will be able to wrap things up nicely and give us some truly great episodes to end the show with :)
[ edited by IcedFlame on 2009-11-12 01:09 ]
IcedFlame | November 11, 16:09 CET
whyiwatch | November 11, 16:09 CET
I get that the show was never doing great, or even well, but did they have to announce the cancelation now, while it is off the air? It really seems like they want to be sure it can't get decent ratings in December.
Fox is clearly owned and run by Rossum Corp.
embers | November 11, 16:10 CET
boatierra | November 11, 16:11 CET
Krusher, I also like Stage Fright. I thought it was significantly better than episode 2, and it showed how smart Echo was and how she could exceed her programming to solve a puzzle.
Bobathin | November 11, 16:16 CET
gossi | November 11, 16:19 CET
Krusher | November 11, 16:25 CET
So, if everything fails, lets try and come up with a good date to get everyone to buy the dvd, like we (Well, you, I'm really young) did with Serenity/Firefly. Joss' B-day again? Nehh. I'm thinking we should wait at least almost a year, although we could just get everyone to go crazy the day season two comes and have people buying five of each to gift. I'm super bad at this kinda thing, this is where you come in whyiwatch ;)
[Edited: @embers, Rossum is CLEARY far smarter than FOX]
[ edited by DeezyG on 2009-11-12 01:27 ]
DeezyG | November 11, 16:25 CET
[ETA: Or was that sarcasm? I'm so irrational, that I have no idea. Ok, rereading your comment I suspect it was]
[ edited by DeezyG on 2009-11-12 01:29 ]
DeezyG | November 11, 16:27 CET
Krusher | November 11, 16:39 CET
Well, no, they really didn't. That's been the problem all along. Dollhouse was dooing poorly to begin with, and Fox gave it another chance. The show took that second chance and... has done even worse so far. Fox isn't perfect. They could've marketted it better, given it a better timeslot, or done a whole bunch of other things. But at the end of the day Dollhouse had to attract viewers, and it was not doing a good job of that. In fact, it wasn't even doing a 'kinda bad' job at that, it was doing a rather poor job of it. I'm sorry to see it go, but looking at it from Fox's perspective I don't think they made the incorrect choice.
IcedTea | November 11, 16:46 CET
baxter | November 11, 16:47 CET
Allen Doyle | November 11, 16:55 CET
What I'm really pissed about is they announced that it's canceled now, before they air the final episodes. Now if they air the rest of the episodes and the first few new ones do bad, then they can just not air the rest, especially if after Christmas. They have a built in excuse not to air the rest of the episodes. They can say, oh well, what does it matter, it'll sell on DVD, we don't need to air it on TV.
In some ways I wish they had never given it a second season, especially, because they really did nothing to promote this second season. Liked the first season, but have loved the second season. So they basically screwed over everyone. From cast to crew to fans.
activebrowncoat | November 11, 17:05 CET
DeezyG | November 11, 17:07 CET
Hunted | November 11, 17:11 CET
Krusher | November 11, 17:13 CET
MindPieces | November 11, 17:37 CET
Jossfan_21 | November 11, 17:42 CET
I can't say I'm pissed at all either, or sad. I have just never been captured by Dollhouse. Never felt anything for the characters, positive or negative. I keep watching, because it's Joss,and because every now and then there is a moment I like, but...
Hopefully everyone involved will find work again quickly, and Joss will be back, stronger, faster, able to leap tall ottomans in a single bound. :)
aeval | November 11, 17:46 CET
There needs to be some sort of cult TV studio out there that exists primarily to make money on DVD/merchandising aftersales.
HWT | November 11, 17:51 CET
Not even Mellie?
Krusher | November 11, 17:52 CET
Yeah...gutted.
:(
ShanshuBugaboo | November 11, 17:57 CET
There's just never an answer anywhere as to why he's still gunning for the networks (although yes, I know Eliza had a contract with Fox, but Joss always has people to turn to if he has an idea for a show).
VeryVeryCrowded | November 11, 18:08 CET
Maybe Joss can revamp SMG's "Wonderful Maladys" and become the showrunner for it -- he might have better success going to a cable network (like HBO or Showtime) where he has more creative input. Or more "Dr. Horrible."
*crosses fingers*
Mcjw_serenity | November 11, 18:10 CET
Dollhouse was a show. It's over. Next.
It never connected with me like other Whedon endevours. I always felt like Dollhouse was a really sharp show that ran for 5-10 minutes every Friday, in between segments of the Eliza Dushku variety hour and infomercial. Not to slam her, as she's a fine actress, but the Echo storylines often felt like the weakest parts of the episode and it was the supporting cast that captured the imagination.
I'm not happy that it's gone, as it was begining to pick up steam. On the other hand I don't think it was ever going to be a ratings success and it's passing will free Joss up to work on other things.
mbeauparland | November 11, 18:20 CET
BringItOn5x5 | November 11, 18:22 CET
Ranrata | November 11, 18:35 CET
PaperSpock | November 11, 18:46 CET
menomegirl | November 11, 18:56 CET
petranef | November 11, 19:05 CET
I, for one actually enjoyed Dollhouse. It was different. AND good. I like different.
It's not going to be Buffy OR Firefly.Or even Angel. It's Dollhouse. If that was what you were expecting, you were dissappointed. Doesn't mean it's BAD,or even mediocre, it's just different. A good different.
So I guess I'm sad. AND pissed.
Back to waiting for the next Joss project. Grr Arrgh.
whedon is GOD | November 11, 19:26 CET
accepting.
[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2009-11-12 07:20 ]
Buffyfantic | November 11, 22:10 CET
silent knight | November 11, 22:32 CET
dorkenheimer | November 11, 22:35 CET
Worst thing is I found out via thesuperficial via the caption, "Eliza Dushku is out of a job".
iwearthecheese | November 11, 23:11 CET
It's a shame it wasn't given more of a chance. And, funnily enough, I don't mean by FOX. The average viewer didn't really seem to care about it. Even I, who am a big fan of most of Joss' stuff, didn't give it my full attention. I can't imagine how those not predisposed to fandom felt about it.
Daburcor | November 11, 23:27 CET
jnr616 | November 12, 00:11 CET
Vera_Samuels | November 12, 00:41 CET
I am sorry for the people who will be out of work, but I'm happy that their talent will have a chance of being put to better use now.
dispatch | November 12, 02:01 CET
While the temptation here is to blame Fox, I'll run counter to the flow here and blame Joss and Eliza. Eliza simply wasn't capable of bearing the weight of this show on her shoulders. And while Joss certainly thought the idea was great (with some justification), it proved to be a little too unwieldy even for him.
Let's face it: it was an idea they came up with over lunch. The fact that Joss could carry the idea this far demonstrates how capable he is. But this was an idea born from necessity more than from creativity. Which is why it always felt like something other than Joss's other work.
Chalk it up as a set of lessons learned and move on.
ern | November 12, 03:32 CET
brinderwalt | November 12, 03:55 CET
I liked Dollhouse from the beginning, even when they were dumbing it down due to network pressure. By half way through season 1, I was totally in love with the show.
It is IMO right up there with the best of Joss's work, which means the best of TV series', ever.
The depth and complexity and deeply disturbing material is a monument to Joss's creative courage. And no doubt the reason it didn't find a bigger audience - along with Fox's lame, half-assed promotion.
The fact that it "always felt like something other than Joss's other work" merely demonstrates that Joss has matured and expanded his always awesome talents. If DH had been like anything else he's ever done, I would have been disappointed.
EtA: "The last two comments, give or take", as at least one more is up now.
[ edited by Shey on 2009-11-12 13:03 ]
Shey | November 12, 04:03 CET
Jakob Schmidt | November 12, 04:27 CET
manreaction | November 12, 04:28 CET
Looking at buffy and Dr Horrible I'd say Joss' strong suit is the comic book/TV crossover. Firefly is a little off in this regard - though the Operative and the Hands of Blue fit in perfectly with the comic book genre.
I'd love to see Joss do Terminator or Heroes, for that matter. He'd rock the house.
Harridan | November 12, 04:28 CET
TDBrown | November 12, 05:09 CET
Phineus | November 12, 05:18 CET
gossi | November 12, 05:21 CET
Simon | November 12, 05:33 CET
Saje | November 12, 05:39 CET
gossi | November 12, 05:44 CET
cdm22 | November 12, 05:50 CET
doghouse | November 12, 05:51 CET
cheryl | November 12, 06:22 CET
(oh and it's 'voila' btw! ;)
cdm22 | November 12, 06:44 CET
On the one hand I really did like big parts of Dollhouse. Some episodes were, honestly, quite avarage television, especially earlier in its run, but then there were bits and pieces (especially 'Belonging', but 'Epitaph One', 'Spy in the house of love' and 'Man on the Street' also stood out) that were actually very, very good. All in all, Dollhouse was certainly a worthy addition to Joss' portfolio of shows, just one I connected with more on a cerebral level, most of the time, than on an emotional level. And it's usually the latter of these I look for first, in my entertainment.
So while I'm sorry to see it go - I was certainly rooting for it, helping to spread the worth of mouth, buying the DVD's, etcetera - I do get the enthusiasm that this opens up Joss for new work - even if that enthusiasm is immediately squashed by thinking of all the people who worked on this production and all the fans who had connected to it emotionally from day one. It's a true shame to see it go.
And another thing this makes me afraid of: Joss might never return to television again. This'd be a big shame, because I feel that that's where his greatest strengths lie: in long-term storytelling. Here's hoping he turns up on cable one day, or maybe starts a long-term webproduction.
So on the one hand I'm sorry to see Dollhouse go and on the other hand I wasn't so in love with the show that it completely drowns out the excitement of thinking about Joss picking up new projects. It's certainly a quite strange feeling.
GVH | November 12, 06:59 CET
"Drama on U.S. network TV feels pretty much dead to me: Leno occupying the 10:00pm NBC slot five nights a week, endless cop and forensic shows, hospital soaps and spinoffs, meta comedies. The rest is commercial-ridden sports and reality, reality, reality."
(Sorry for being technology challenged, but I still cannot figure out how to do quotes on this forum, even following your how-to tips)
Thanks, doghouse, for saying much more eloquently than I did in my previous post upthread. The networks have dumbed-down their audiences, and all they want to do is pour money into stereotyped formulas and are unwilling to give sci-Fi dramas a chance. You can make the argument that Fox attempted, but it was a half-assed attempt at best, with poor promotion, poor choice of of a venue night and worst of all, meddling with the intial premise in the first place.
I did without network TV dramas for the most part since Buffy and Angel and Firefly departed, and I can do without them again. I only became interested in NCIS because of the superior writing staff and characters made believable by great actors, not because CBS pours money into it.
With that said, I fervently hope Joss and his fine repertory company stick together and venture into internet productions and totally abandon all dealings with networks.
[ edited by Riverine on 2009-11-12 16:14 ]
[ edited by Riverine on 2009-11-12 16:15 ]
[ edited by Riverine on 2009-11-12 16:17 ]
[ edited by Riverine on 2009-11-12 16:21 ]
Riverine | November 12, 07:13 CET
Most definitely not pleased with this news. Peeved is probably the right word, as it really doesn't come as a shock and I was anticipating the news many months ago when season 2 got commissioned. For that reason, it seems hard to build up real anger about the cancellation.
I can't say I loved the show as much as Whedon's other work, but then neither Buffy nor Angel really showed their true brilliance until there second seasons. Firefly is a real exception here, which I watched on DVD and loved from the moment they had silence in space. I would say that the stand out episodes of Dollhouse season one (Man on the Street, Needs, Briar Rose, Epitaph One) were probably better than the vast majority of either Buffy or Angel's first season and really showed the potential for the show, when it eventually found its stride. Four episodes into season 2, we have had no episodes that haven't been as good as an average episode from the second half of season one and one exceptional episode in Belonging. I can really see this season fulfilling the same pattern as Buffy and Angel in its second season and become something very special. It was always going to be a tall order though; Dollhouse is by far the least commercial work Joss has done. Unless he made it completely into a procedural show, it was never going to be a rating winner.
I really hope Joss makes the move to cable. I know it has been said many times before by many people, but it really seems like network TV is unwilling to make the commitment required for these shows to be a success. If not, maybe that rumour I saw awhile back about him starting an Internet studio could come to fruition.
Either that or he could follow the suggestion I've seen a few others make and come over here to the UK and do something with the BBC. Could now be the time for Ripper? The Doctor Who 'verse is going from strength to strength (Children of Earth is probably the best thing Russel T. Davis has written since starting Doctor Who,) and Merlin seems to be doing ok for them as well, so that is an audience for Science Fiction/Fantasy and Anthony Head right there. I must admit, I think that would be my preference over Faith the Vampire Slayer.
[ edited by Vandelay on 2009-11-12 17:05 ]
[ edited by Vandelay on 2009-11-12 17:10 ]
Vandelay | November 12, 08:05 CET
Nielson just doesn't worked, I'm convinced -- I know because I can tell you there are people in my family who are not big TV watchers that watch Dollhouse, including my 70 year old in laws!!!
Joss-- move to cable. Unlike network TV that wants to dumb everything down, Cable (AMC, USA, HBO, Sho) seem to have no problem putting on quality programming that speaks to people, and they are winning awards to show it. They seem more willing then the networks to give shows time to gain an audience.
If not for Bones, I'd be done with FOX like I was with the WB after Angel (got a little happy chuckle when WB went under a year later!!!)
WilliamTheBloody | November 12, 08:10 CET
I liked Dollhouse, but I gave up the idea that it could be as good as Buffy or Firefly a while ago, mainly because of the main character.
And I'm very happy that we have 9 episodes left to see, without worrying about ratings and all.
Nico-Angel | November 12, 08:35 CET
Again I say, I'm so sorry Joss. Even the weather here in the UK is in mourning (at least where i am): rain, rain, wind and more rain.
The least FOX can do now is to air Season 2 in it's entirety. Though even if they do, I still think they're gits.
Shep | November 12, 09:06 CET
deanna_lynne | November 12, 09:50 CET
SciFi(I'm physically incapable of calling them SyFy...) is hit or miss with their shows. For every BSG they seem to air 20 "Mansqitos." And they're the ones who killed Farscape, leaving the viewers on a cliffhanger for years before tying up the loose ends in a mini series....
If Joss did go to SciFi though, I'd love to see him do a remake/reimagining/continuation of the old series Good vs Evil. It was quirky, clever, fun, and played with various genres. It also totally missed the mainstream American audience while connecting with a core group of devoted fans.... Joss would be be perfect for it!
mbeauparland | November 12, 11:52 CET
DeezyG | November 12, 13:43 CET
DeezyG | November 12, 13:45 CET