November 14 2009
Today's IMDb poll: Is it possible for Joss Whedon to get a break in television?
The options seem jokier than average today.
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VaughnOfTheDead | November 14, 02:54 CET
And while Angel did have an abrupt cancellation (and no matter how much I woujld still love it to be on the air!), it did get a very respectable 5 years. Which is not a failiure by any means.
angeliclestat | November 14, 04:40 CET
Mirage | November 14, 05:07 CET
They weren't very kind in this poll, even the positives are a bit snappy so I don't know what to vote for, or I'm too tired for this sort of decision...
I more inclined to vote "No, TV networks will never 'get him'" - or "yes, if he's put in a timeslot worthy of Joss Whedon" but alas, I can't.
allthattwiggery | November 14, 05:08 CET
I never got how people could cite Angel as some sort of failure- five seasons, dude! Respectable indeed. And to be slightly OT- I just rewatched Hole in the World on TNT and sobbed like a small, injured child. Yeah.
FruityOatySaladbar | November 14, 07:07 CET
The man has not gotten a break in television, he's gotten several. He's gotten more than most ever have or ever will. You do not have to be Donald Bellisario and have network TV success and/or durability on auto-pilot to have "gotten a break".
KingofCretins | November 14, 07:41 CET
baxter | November 14, 07:46 CET
Leaf | November 14, 08:51 CET
zz9 | November 14, 08:54 CET
electricspacegirl | November 14, 09:21 CET
JTown | November 14, 09:33 CET
He let the show find its creative footing in the first season, he allowed it to be left alone to some extent towards the end (no network leaves anything completely alone) and then gave it another season. And while they did that, the numbers consistently dropped on just about every episode after "Man on the Street." I think what you blame the network for this time is entirely throwing Marketing 101 out the window on this show and perhaps not recognizing their mistakes fast enough.
Of the people I've gotten to see this show and enjoy it, a majority saw Buffy and Firefly and DIDN'T like them or were at the very least too uninterested to finish. To me, networks need to stop trying to sell Whedon's name, and start trying to sell his shows.
azzers | November 14, 10:09 CET
But I got a few cents...
Though I do agree Joss always gets his chances and has had good runs, I still can't see the fairness in cancelling shows because of ratings. Call me young(cause I am) but I really hate that networks are only about the money.
Just for once, I'd like to see one of Joss' shows that has a TRUE ending!
*Still bummed at the whole Angel ending, I wanna know what happens!!*
But alas, networks are blinded by the greed...
So, I'm up for seeing Joss on Showtime or HBO! Anything but those folks at Fox(likes to think of them as the evil Wolfram & Hart...gotta love Angel.)!
xWolffspridex | November 14, 12:11 CET
I wanted Dollhouse (and Angel and Buffy, AND FIREFLY) to continue its run like most Whedon fans, but I also see why the network would want to cancel it if they can only see it as a losing proposition. We want good TV and WE see the brilliance in Joss's work. Apparently not everyone does and if the business can find another way to make more money, they're going to go that direction. We're getting 26 episodes out of it, so I'm trying not to sulk TOO much.
I don't know if I'm getting across my point effectively or not, I guess I'm trying to say that I want more Dollhouse, too, but I understand why we aren't getting more (putting aside the network's insistence on little to no promotion).
JTown | November 14, 12:23 CET
I want whatever Joss does whether it's movies, web series, or whatever. But I need his stories on a weekly basis. TV just isn't the same without him.
Then watch Buffy.
electricspacegirl | November 14, 12:26 CET
Sci-fiSyFy channel (and over look that trendy/stupid name), they don't expect top ratings and they would 'get' his shows!I still think that Joss' character driven story telling is best done in a television format (as apposed to the shorter movie and/or online formats). I really want to see Joss on my TV set every week! Anyway, I couldn't vote; I'm not registered.
*sigh*
embers | November 14, 13:44 CET
Joss' channel perhaps?
Madhatter | November 14, 13:51 CET
Or the show gets renewed and renewed long after it's jumped the shark or fans have lost interest, then gets canceled, and so the ending isn't very good because the show has already lost it's quality and fans pick and choose what they consider the true ending. Happy Days, Brady Bunch, and more recently, Scrubs (although I actually liked the final season, it was the couple in the middle I could have done without).
Or they plan to end, broadcast their intended finale, then get renewed anyway because everyone involved still wants a steady paycheck. Stargate comes to mind.
Ultimately, the only shows that have "true endings" are anime series' and certain other cartoons, shows that have the entire story written from the beginning and are intended to only run this many seasons, this many episodes, and that's the story. Avatar, Cowboy Bebop, Fullmetal Alchemist, and so on.
Buffy had an ending, and as I understand it, a great one (not being a Buffy fan, I wouldn't know myself). Angel had an ending too, and I honestly enjoyed it. Sure, it could have been better, but it was solid, and left on a note I could live with. Dollhouse will probably have an ending of some sort. The only Whedon show that hasn't had a true ending (on TV anyway) is Firefly. Do they deserve better? Maybe. But it's unrealistic to expect any series to end on a perfect note.
Batman1016 | November 14, 14:10 CET
ElusiveJ | November 14, 14:23 CET
Willowy | November 14, 14:36 CET
But I really, truly believe that Dollhouse NEVER belonged on network tv. The concept and implied consequences of the premise are too intellectual and too existential for most of America's viewers. Primetime tv is about kicking back and relaxing for the general population.
Not mining your soul for the truth about humanity.
Sure, everyone wants to cry a little and feel a twinge in their chest cavity, but that's a far cry from the kind of moral ambiguity Dollhouse was aiming for. Shotime and HBO are much more suited for that kind of storytelling.
Of course- I love the mining, and I treasure every angsty, blurry gray-lined minute. :)
C | November 14, 14:54 CET
Now, don't think for a second that Joss is taking this as a set back, he's already dreaming up other interesting tales that could, very likely, give this world a nice spin. That is, if it's willing to listen.
Oh wait....damnit, still playing catch up here.
Madhatter | November 14, 14:54 CET
I don't think it's crazy to say that the powers that be in television have a responsibility to present some quality programing, some stuff that is actually interesting, in return for being allowed to occupy the airwaves and sell advertising aimed at people watching brain candy for relaxation. They owe IMO.
Like many others, I watch television to be entertained, informed, challenged, and preferably excited and astonished, and I will watch such stuff wherever I can find it, if I can manage to buy it or be given it for free. I am lucky enough to be able to afford me some Showtime and HBO, but not everyone is. People who cannot afford this stuff deserve good tv too...
It is a huge privilege to own these mighty signals and they owe us all something in return, even if it doesn't always fill their pockets with gold.
toast | November 14, 16:07 CET
helcat | November 14, 16:16 CET
toast | November 14, 16:23 CET
And when I say true ending, I just mean a solid one to where I can say, "Everything is gonna be okay", or, "Yep, that's an example of the real world for ya." I'm aware that it's hard for shows to ever have a "true" ending, but you know -- I guess I'm just venting my..."upsetness".
Plus, I wanted to see Angel fight a dragon.(:P)
I guess when I hear of shows being cancelled prematurely, or just at a bad stopping point(in my opinion) I get a little upset.
I just would like to see more of Joss' works being given it's props and for everyone to be pleased with an ending that works.
But I'm done trying to defend myself, and I think(and hope) you guys get my point; I miss Firefly, and I miss Angel. Both great stories that I believed deserved a little more attention from the viewers and the Networks. But you know, beggers can't be choosers.
P.S.: electricspacegirl, I have seen Buffy, I liked it very much, but I was curious to see what would happen now that Sunnydale was gone(No, I don't want to read the comics, I only mean television-wise.) I believe I've seen all off Joss' shows now, just still get a little disappointed that some got cancelled when they did.
And thank you guys for making me see how cruel the world is again. Sometimes I forget, or try not to think about it. Money is definately a factor in the world, and it won't ever go away! Still, it sure can cause a lot of pain in one form or another.
xWolffspridex | November 14, 16:36 CET
Turbofist911 | November 14, 16:50 CET
Indeed. Tim's lucky if he gets past four episodes. But such great episodes they are.
hacksaway | November 14, 20:06 CET
electricspacegirl | November 14, 23:31 CET
And won't it be kinda tame, compared to the comic, if it's on network TV ? Isn't there guts a'plenty, swearing, and potentially some nudity in the comic (haven't read it yet). Actually the graphic violence and such wouldn't surprise me if it made it to air, they've been pushing further and further with that every year.
Kris | November 15, 00:29 CET
Err, AMC seems to be kind of implied by electricspacegirl's post ? ;) Not seen all of 'Breaking Bad' yet but the episodes I did see had parts blurred out (naked breasts on an adult TV show *gasp* !) - if that's how it originally aired then it doesn't bode well for a zombie TV show which, if it's going to be actual horror, will presumably just be one big blur.
The first network to make a series about zombies!
Well, the first American network anyway (though I guess 'Dead Set' is strictly a "mini-series", especially by US standards).
Saje | November 15, 02:17 CET
Yep, not paying attention and/or unable to concentrate. Time for bed.
Also can't tag properly.
[ edited by Kris on 2009-11-15 12:08 ]
Kris | November 15, 03:09 CET
baxter | November 15, 03:10 CET
Kris | November 15, 03:29 CET
And they seem to be heading in a direction that includes more SciFi/Fantasy - their run-up to The Prisoner is two marathons of The Matrix trilogy.
Downside: commercials. Upside: probably more support than HBO. (I'm still not over the Carnivale cancellation.)
Definitely not in favor of SyFy, their one super quality offering ever was BSG.
Shey | November 15, 06:06 CET
I think HBO's hands were tied with Carnivale--it was a very expensive show to produce (big cast, beautiful sets, all that period piece clothing, occasional special effects, etc), but it wasn't bringing in the kind of numbers HBO wanted. Basically the same thing happened to Deadwood before it could get its fourth and final season. HBO has been overwhelmingly supportive of a whole lot of other shows.
[ edited by Kris on 2009-11-15 16:59 ]
Kris | November 15, 07:59 CET
Little Green Kid | November 15, 14:18 CET
The one exception is IFN (Independent Film Network). And AMC sometimes shows movies commercial free, but I'm not sure what criteria they use to determine when, or which movies.
Only the "premium" cable channels are completely commercial free (i.e. the ones that don't come in any basic cable/satellite package, you have to add them on for a separate fee - HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, Starz, etc.).
The adult content allowance varies from channel to channel, with FX getting away with the most, language and nudity-wise. Whereas A&E has been known to bleep out profanity on network shows they re-run - language that was used in the original network airing.
Go figure.
Shey | November 16, 01:37 CET
moley75 | November 16, 04:34 CET
I thought AMC was as unrestrained as HBO. Even with now finding out they have ads, I thought they could still show anything (not that nudity and being allowed to say "fuck" and "cocksucker" is required to have a successful show).
Kris | November 16, 12:48 CET