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January 08 2010

(SPOILER) Buffy Season 8 shocker - Twilight's identity is revealed. Shame we didn't get to find out about it in the comic book.

The original link was to Buffyfest but Comic Book Resources has far more info.

More from Allie at CBR ... would have been nice to mention there that the release of the covers was a mistake.
Okay - I'm so confused. Isn't Angel After the Fall and Buffy Season 8 set in the same timeframe? Or did I get that wrong?
Thanks for the CBR link Parabola, I switched the URL over.
Wooooow. I really did think they were tweaking our noses on this one.
I'm guessing IDW and Dark Horse don't make sure their Angleverses parallel each other. How it all plays out will also likely guarantee you'll never see Angel in Dark Horse titles again.
Do I have to mention that this is probably a misdirect? It seems too easy that Scott Allie has confirmed it. It won't be shocking anymore if that's the case. I'm not believing it. Unless he's saying it's who it is because we wouldn't believe him, so when it turns out to be true it's actually somewhat a shock. That cover looks obviously photo shopped.
crazygolfa I'd be very surprised it this was a misdirect. I've seen too many cockups in this fandom to believe otherwise.

I didn't know, I accidentally rolled over the link in my feed-reader and it automatically expanded it into the real thing, which completely gave the game away. This is the most staggering reveal I've ever seen, I really wish I hadn't been spoiled on it :(
When is season 8 due to finish? I gave up trying to keep up years ago as its difficult in a pokey little town in the UK.
I think it will finish by the end of this year.
On a lighter note, Jo's cover for the TPB is beautiful. Buffy's all passed out-ish and Angel's staking her. Yea, not a perfect likeness of David but still, beautiful. Actually vaguely reminiscent of her TotVampires cover.
Ha ha ha ha ha. Nice try.

I believe I am correct in saying "Buffy The Vampire Slayer: Season 8" (as I'm callin' it) follows "Angel: After The Fall". I heard that someplace. so confused and cannot figure out what to believe, if this is true/a misdirect/a mistake, etc, etc. If it is true, I really hope the issues manage to explain Angel's involvement REALLY well because so far, as a follower of both comic series, I'm not impressed.
Retroactive foreshadowing - did we see the genesis for this in the Angel season 5 episode 'Damages'?
D'oh couldn't stop myself from clicking that. I decided a couple months ago to just buy the trade books cause having each issue shipped from TFAW is too much money. I'm a wee bit behind.
Shock and Awe.
I feel like just as soon as I accept this to be true they will all yell gotcha, so I'm going to be cautiously accepting. It seems to me that if Angel is Twilight, that is not the big story.
Also-I'm mostly just glad that it's not Xander or Spike.

The kissing will require some explanation.
I'd have no problems with Angel being Twilight, if properly explained. And I'm sure they'd have a way to explain, it wouldn't be a last minute choice, they'd have known all along. But I'd be very sorry for the leaked covers if that was the case.

Still... I'd understand the cover of #34, since the big reveal is supposed to happen in #33. But the TPB cover? Spoiling its own contents? That would be weird.
So when did Angel learn to fly and throw church pieces? That's new, right?
So if Angel's Twilight, what's it say when you remember that Riley was working for him? (Albeit, as a double agent)
I am guessing the logic here is....

a) It's out there so...
b) Let people run with it

Or it's a foiler. I'm a fan of foilers.
Yeah - that's new Sunfire...unless he's gone all floaty as in Buffy the Movie and The Lost Boys.

Or - maybe it's a power he gets after being alive for so long...(yes, I've been playing World of Warcraft a little too much lately).

Ah - so gossi says Season 8 is after After the Fall..okaay. So the timeline could work. I'll just have to wait to find out the why of it all.
I dunno, the article seems pretty clear that Angel is Twilight. Pretty big foiler but they do say there are "twists" still coming.
IMO It's now official. Season 8 really is Joss's own crackfic!!
I'll say the same thing that I said about the final cylon: with all the hype, and the fact that every character ever has been guessed by someone, the real twist/reveal/awesomeness isn't going to be the "who" but the "why"

Angel has always been my foremost guess, but I was open to pretty much anyone, though I never really bought into the female ideas. And I almost still believe it's not true cause I'm never right when guessing these kinds of things!

Been a while since I looked into this, but as I recall (investigating my Angel hypothesis), ATF takes place in the weeks/months following Angel Season 5, whereas S8 takes place starting ~15 months after Buffy season 7, putting it immediately after ATF.

I only clicked this thread on the assumption it was revealing the previous covers as true. Too bad I clicked on that thread... :(
All the pictures don't really show them fighting. I really don't have a clue what's gonna happen anymore.

Unless it's going to be like this.
Angel takes of mask.
"It was I all along, I was the Twilight!"
Buffy: "I always thought Twilight was irresistible!"
Angel: "I think this calls for smoochies."
Buffy: "You're unmasking turned me into a cookie, it is time for smooch-related activities."
My mind is just ever so slowly boggled as I ponder it. He's so mean and unfashionable, and awkward at the minion-leading. It's true Angel's not one of my favorite characters but he's not a B villain.
IMO, there's NO WAY this is the real deal. All this time and this is how it's revealed? Not a chance Joss lets his baby fall out with the bathwater.

The PTB are sitting around laughing at us right now.
What if it's Angelus pretending to be Angel. If not, who else could give him the flying powers to combat Buffy? I say it's Willow who is pulling the strings.
I'm becoming more convinced it's a foiler, and when I'm proven right, I will break out my "I Told You So" dance! :D
Quite Sunfire - which makes it even more interesting, especially if you just ignore the shipper aspect to it. Just because the covers show what they show doesn't mean that's actuallly what's happening.

I mean - we had Faith drowning Buffy, whilst there was conflict that didn't actually happen. Sometimes the covers show the emotional conflict inside with the players imho.

What's interesting to me is that they are saying in that article is that the verses are merging (to some extent, or did I read that wrong).

Angel never was a B villain and therefore can not be dismissed easily, he has his own story that needs to conclude!
This can't be right. If it is, it makes no sense. If it is, I am truly and honestly disappointed, well beyond the general sense of dismay this comic has left me with. I used to watch Lost and stopped, Heroes and stopped, and I love Buffy, but I guess I have to stop here. Yes, I am sure some will say, hey, see how it plays out. But I can't really care.

But truth is, something in that article does not ring true, and Scott Allie does not sound a lot like Scott Allie normally sounds. Either the reveal caught him off guard, and they have a major leak they will need to correct (I cannot believe they would leak this on their own, unless they think it would help mitigate some outcry- but I don't think this is the kind of thing that leads to an outcry that really matters, like in politics), or he is not telling the truth.
Thanks Simon :)
I kind of want to cry. Because I totally kind of get it and I don't think I want to.
I think we're being lied to, but I'd rather be spoiled early than lied to. :-(
I believe it's Angel. If it's a fakeout, then it's actually Spike. But the CBR article clinches it.

It was going to be either Angel or Spike, it had to be. The best clue we got was back in "Anywhere But Here" when Buffy tries to bisect Twilight like she did to Caleb, and Twilight says, "I know that move, Slayer." Only Angel and Spike witnessed that move, it had to be one or the other.

I think the end of Angel: After The Fall also points to Angel/Spike's involvement in Buffy Season 8. The fact that the whole thing ends in the alley and not a number of months after the alley cleans up a lot of things for Joss to take these characters and use them in his 3-month (thanks phlebotinin) post-alley Buffy Season 8. Now that we know it's Angel, you're right bobw1o, the why of it all gets so much fun!

Is Angel evil again??
What does this mean for Shanshu?
Is this the apocalypse that Angel was supposed to play a key role in?
If Twilight isn't Spike, WHERE'S SPIKE?? Shouldn't he love to defend Buffy from a maniacal, evil Angel?
How did Angel get superpowers?
Will we see other Angel characters? (Illyria, Gunn, Connor)

So exciting! Can't wait for this arc to begin!!

"The most important thing about death isn't who dies ... it's who kills them." ~ Willow

[ edited by basuraboi3 on 2010-01-08 23:41 ]

[ edited by basuraboi3 on 2010-01-09 01:27 ]
If it is, I am truly and honestly disappointed, well beyond the general sense of dismay this comic has left me with

Eh, I wouldn't judge the storyline until I read it, personally. How it all goes down and what happens after is just as important as who it is. This is a very potent option emotionally and the series has always been at its best when that's true.
I guess I'm not the only one who thought Allie sounded "off" in the CBR interview. Plus, he wasn't asked if the covers were an accidental leak or April Fool's joke. It's like he and CBR ignored what we're all thinking.
But as an Bangel shipper, I'm not disappointed by this reveal. It's just another obstacle for them to overcome. If Luke and Laura can get together after he raped her, then surely Buffy and Angel's epic love can survive Twilight.
Maybe that's no coincidence Riker, I'm beginning to think Scott Allie is Twilight...
Just to clarify, basuraboi3, 15 months after Buffy season 7 is only 3 months after Angel season 5.

The discussions of why (Angel not being the mastermind, etc..) here are really fun. See, the why is the big deal. there's no way to reveal to us who it is and us be surprised, cause we've all considered everyone. But we still don't really know what's going on (even if Twilight is in charge) so that's gonna be interesting to get to.
Well, this is downright crappy. It's crappy that those covers really did spill the beans -- and that Allie is spilling the beans, too. Why confirm what could have remained speculation?

Also, count me in with those who are so far terribly unimpressed with the idea. My mind is certainly open enough to see where this goes and how it's handled. Who knows? I could be blown away in a good way. But from where I stand now, I hate it. Is Angel really that nasty that he's into the death of many, many girls? Really? Murder and mayhem? Really? This does, as some have pointed out, suggest a return of Angelus.

We'll see. But so far, I hate it.

Edited again to say: Upon rereading the linked piece, I can see where if this is the real deal, then the why and how of Angel-is-Twilight could be very, very interesting and juicy. Huh. (Am I going through the stages of grief or something? Have I pushed beyond acceptance now?)

[ edited by phlebotinin on 2010-01-08 23:57 ]
Jeanty said a good while back that the reaction to the reveal would be shock, anger, joy, relief, and disbelief. Based on this thread, I'd say he had all the bases covered.
I am past the point of caring now, having read this.
I think I agree with Maggie. :-)

I got pretty bored long ago with wondering WHO Twilight was; it all seemed pretty fruitless since it could be any one of about six candidates. In some ways, I'm feeling quite relieved that now I know and we can stop speculating.

I'm far more interested now in finding out WHY Twilight is.
Let me tell you guys a story:

There's this girl and she's like really powerful and she like fights vampires, 'cause that's her destiny! But then she totally falls in love with one and they have sex and then he turns evil, but then he dies and he is good again and then she falls in love with another vampire and then her best friend is a witch and she kills everyone and then suddenly every girl can kill vampires!

Let's let this play out and then judge it, okay guys?

[ edited by Pretty_Hate_Machine on 2010-01-09 00:05 ]
Count me among the "foiler!" camp.
I'd like to know WHY too, but I can't shake this feeling that they're laughing and making fun of us.
Is Angel really that nasty that he's into the death of many, many girls? Really? Murder and mayhem? Really?

It should be noted that in Retreat, for example, the Slayers fire the first shots. The forces of Twilight are just amassing, firing nothing until the Slayers do. And the goddesses who kill indiscriminately? Summoned by Buffy's side. So who's the aggressor in that battle?

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2010-01-09 00:08 ]
My God!
I'm dying to read it, but I can't believe!

What really interest me is the why, and how it plays out with IDW's run. I think they're only take as canon After The Fall and not what follows.

[ edited by Angel TheVampire on 2010-01-09 00:48 ]
I'm going to wait for the season to end to totally judge, but right now, I'm disappointed. I hope it's a fake, or the Joss and Co. pull off a splainy of genius. Though I do kind of like Simon's earlier theory. As I think about it more, Angel working with Amy and Warren is so odd, but when you think about the character that connects them all is Willow (restored Angel's soul, killed Warren, frenemies with Amy, etc) on top of pulling the Dues Ex Machina in Retreat, along with so many other plot threads, that's what makes most sense out of this insanity. The TPB cover looks wonderful and I want to go back through old issues for clues.

[ edited by CaptainB on 2010-01-09 00:37 ]
I went back and read a bunch of Twilight's scenes to see if Angel's voice stuck. In a few instances it reads like him -- check out A Beautiful Sunset and that "I always hated seeing you cry" reads an entirely different way -- but I can't justify the misogyny and "just a girl" comments.
I'm not going to officially believe it until I hold the issue in my hand... I haven't had enough time to process this new information and make a decision as to what I think about it....

My initial instinct: WTF?

If true, will I come to accept it? Probably. As long as they explain it. (Like, if--do I have to do a spoiler alert for the Angel comics?--when Angel became human his vampire part became it's own being and that Twilight is Angelus... (which is probably completely impossible, but that was my first instinct on the subject, otherwise I'm just confused...)).

I need some time to process...
Note, although I suggest upthread this could be a foiler - I doubt it is. JW and friends will have known for a while Twilight would get out there eventually. It's the nature of the manly beast. As bob points out - it's not the who, so much as the why and the emotional impact. If I was marketing this thing, I'd say release it as soon as the covers got out there.

Elphaba - neat name.
"Angel Investigations: we kill the helpless."
Sunfire, he went to Italy in "The Girl In Question". And we all know Italy is where you throw cathedrals at people.
I'm excited about this. I of course, have so many questions. And seriously, if this is Angel, I wonder if IDW will be able to address what happens to his crew. If Angel is Twilight (and he's in total control of his actions), I fear that they are all either dead or evil.
"All I wanted was help when Fred was dying and Giles told me to piss off so I'm going to KILL ALL OF YOU!!!"
I hate myself. Misstake or not, this isn't the first time I've spoilered myself by looking at covers and reading interviews and reading solicitations. Now the thing I've waited to find out for severals years has been revealed.

It's like the Batsu reveal, which I found out because some jackass forgot to spoiler-mark a article. Of course, this is my fault. And kind of the person who lets these covers slip.

So Angel is Twilight. We'll see how this plays out. I will refrain myself from thinking too much, and try to keep the little freshness that still exist after this reveal.
I really hope this is just a joke. As much as I love Angel, I just couldn't see how this story will work. Especially if After The Fall is happening sometime during the same time as Buffy s8. Or how IDW even allowed DH to use Angel.
Meh... serious lack of imagination here but I think the series played out its creativity some time ago.
I'm among those who think this is a elaborate fake. I mean Scott Allie and Dark Horse knows how covers are released long before the issue is shipped and even had fun with the mock cover of issue #33. If this was a mistake, they really dropped the ball, as it was something they knew would happen but didn't stop it. If it leaked out some other way than the standard cover release, I would find it more believable.

Plus as others have mentioned, Scott doesn't even give an explanation why it was accidentally leaked out. The interview just started as he expected this to happen and was surprised it didn't happen early with other close slip ups.

Also the bit where Scott says he's talked to Chris Ryall at IDW last night, and will call him today also sounds off to me. If Twilight was really Angel, I would imagine that IDW would have been informed long ago since it would have such a big effect on the property that they own the license to.

Anyways, we will have to see how it turns out when the reveal issue is released.
Spoiler for After the Fall in this, just a warning.

Ok, let's address this again:
After the Fall and Season 8 are NOT happening at the same time.
Season 8 starts 1.5 years after Chosen, roughly.
After the Fall begins AND ENDS immediately after Not Fade Away. It took seconds at most. That means Season 8 starts AFTER After the Fall concludes. They do not run simultaneously.
Add in the fact that Season 8 has to have taken at least some level of time from issue 1 until now (figure a few months at least) and we're more than safe in saying that there's a wide gap between them chronologically.

We all good now?
Timey wimey?
Timey wimey midi chlorians fixed with the sonic screwdriver!
Well, for once I am not the only one dismayed. But it still feels wrong to me, in many ways, even if I cannot explain why. For the moment, if it is Angel, what would be the resonance? That's the question that needs answering- yes, theirs was a love for the ages, but it ended a while ago, so what resonates now? And why? What would explain Angel's involvement? Why off slayers? How is Willow involved?
Read, and find out.
Best. April. Fool's. Joke. Ever.
"If Angel is Twilight (and he's in total control of his actions), I fear that they are all either dead or evil."

Or he just went all 'Season 2 Angel' and took of on his own.

Anyway, I hope this is true. It could make for some great stuff!
Yeah, April Fool's joke.....right?
Man, I just don't why people are so crazed. If it's true--can't wait to see the why of it. If it's not--HA.

Is it really that big of a deal? Really? Do you think Joss would do this without a good reason? You may not like it, but he always has a reason.

And if it's not Angel, I'm betting it's Future!Buffy. She's taken on villains of ever-increasing power...who's she got left to face but herself?

[ edited by pat32082 on 2010-01-09 01:50 ]
I'm finding this very, very hard to believe.

If it is true, then we had better be given a very, very good reason, like in "running a sword through you was the only way to save the world".

Given how many deaths Twilight is responsible for by now, I don't really see even Buffy forgiving Angel for this.
Timey wimey?

Wibbly wobbly.

I just finished reading the third issue of the "Retreat" arc, and After the Fall #16 (the one where ). After reading those two issues (the Angel one in particular), not only do I have trouble seeing Angel doing something like this, I'd feel pretty damn insulted if they did decide to take his character in that direction. The series didn't spend multiple seasons emphasizing the fact that Angel is supposed to be a champion for the weak for nothing.

Needless to say, I am truly hoping that this is either a joke, or some kind of misdirect. Because it would be a great shame to treat an amazing character in such a demeaning way.
Im still calling misdirect.

If Angel does turn out to be Twi, I'm guessing it's either The First or Dark Willow somehow controlling Angelus.
"Oh no! Angel is being all ruthless and killing innocent people and deceiving his friends! Has he turned evil again?"

...that would be the plot of 'Angel' Season 5, yes? So it's not exactly out of character for him to be doing the same thing to Buffy now. We'll just have to wait and see what his reasons are.

I'm sure they seemed like good ones to him at the time...
From Brian Lynch's Twitter.

The only thing that would kinda piss me off is if I have to buy IDW's ANGEL again to see it from Angel's side and get the full story. I was done with that series after ATF.

ETA: But seriously, if the issue comes out and it's not him? I am going to laugh so damn hard.

[ edited by pat32082 on 2010-01-09 02:15 ]
Best. April. Fool's. Joke. Ever.

God I hope so Shiai!
I really don't know what to think about this; I just know I find it all very upsetting.
Real or not, this has finally got me properly interested in the comics. I'm not even really an Angel fanboy or anything, but for some reason this intrigues me.
Dark Horse is tweeting about this. Why would they go out of their way to spread massive spoilers that "accidentally" leaked? I'm convinced this is an elaborate misdirection and will remain convinced until I read the issue for myself.

For the record, Angel has been my number one Twilight suspect. My skepticism has nothing to do with not wanting it to be him. The circumstances are fishy!

[ edited by wonderflonium on 2010-01-09 02:38 ]
Interesting. This sounds very exciting if this is true. I know some people aren't feeling it but Angel/Twilight seems to have lots of possibilities. If the worlds truly are becoming one, maybe this is a misdirect for another Angel character who is Twilight... (or not, i'm ill and have no idea haha)
I'm amazed at how many people here have so very little trust in Joss Whedon. I can't wait for these issues :)
I'm offically freaked out.Both as a Angel fan and a B/A shipper.But I can't wait to see how this actually plays out though.
Haven't we already seen this "Angel is evil, oh wait, no he's not!" storyline already?
I have the opposite problem from pat32802. I still follow the Angel comics, and now the character I've been reading about is being used in an odd way so will I have to go back and read all the Buffy books to catch up? Or just give up on the Angel's!
Scott says that the Jeanty cover is an homage to a Superman annual with Wonder Woman. Anyone know which one? I couldn't find it.
I was super angry that Dark Horse tweeted this. Come on, I read the comics, and occasionally I'm a few days behind! I'm back on Twitter for one day after a month long hiatus, and they ruin it for me? Not cool.
Lame until proven otherwise.
Yeah, I think the fact that they are twittering spoilers I think is further reason to believe it's misdirection. As it's one thing if a slip-up happens, but something else if they start to advertise the slip-up.

Also coming out and saying that it's Angel, means people aren't out there purposely trying to spoil the issue. Often big event comics get spoiled ahead of time by someone somewhere in the production line of the comic leaking out the big secret. There will be less of that if everyone is going in thinks it's Angel.
So all those people who were asking "Will we see Angel in S8?" SEE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE?!

I lost interest in the comics 6 months ago (I have no patience), but I'll buy this just to see where it leads and to see the two interact again. I will NEVER believe that the Angel we have seen would betray Buffy. He's more of an 'intervention' type of guy, if he felt that her and the slayers were abusing ther power.

Angelus though? Hmm, maybe.
I don't think I'll be able to trust Joss and co. again if this is one big elaborate hoax. Even though I don't really want it to be, Twilight had better be Angel come March/April!
In Jeanty's cover for issue #33 Twilight looks an awful lot like another souled vampire to me.
Buffyfest has a phone interview with Allie where he apparently claims the release is real and was a HUGE mistake. It sounds fairly convincing - but that could be the whole point. He never actually explains how the accident happened, nor is he apologetic for the spoiler - so my Magical Junior Detective hat tells me "fakeout", an April fools prank for the April solicitation.
OK, so I didn't mean to find this out, but I accidentally saw it on someone's live journal, fairly indirectly.

All I can say is: I DID IT!

I totally called this...see

(So it says that I edited the comment just now, which reduces my credibility to zero, but I clicked "edit comment" so I'd be able to link to the specific comment, rather than the page...I didn't change whose identity it is looking fishy for me. Sorry guys!)

So I'm unhappy that I got spoiled, but happy that I was right. And honestly, I won't go into why, but it makes sense to me. It mostly balances out happily.
Okay-- i can believe all of this and fit it together, in both the world of fiction the creative world, but the one thing I CANNOT get past is the MISOGYNISTIC ANGLE on Twilight?! Even Angelus wouldn't act like that.

I think it's a New Moon joke. /Twilight/? Theme of all 3 covers? But that would be a really expensive joke (note, 3 hard-worked-on cover variants released)

I'd actually love it if Twilight is Angel because it makes the story much more involving and worth while, but Twilight as we've seen him.. yeah B Villain. Not cool. Enchantment? Acting? Is he being observed why some higher powers? Has he been carrying around the Ring too long? Is Voldemort possessing his bod?

Hoping the explanation doesn't fall in on it's head. If it's something Joss has been planning this long I really doubt it will.
Also it would be really nice to see unaddressed tensions between Faith and Buffy boil back up to the surface when this comes out. I can easily see Faith's Buff-loyalty abandoned when the magics=bad is combined with the Angel-loyalty.
The comment about Angel being Angel (and not Angelus) probably does work best if the "they are all evil" part is true. I doubt Joss would ever go that way just because I'm not sure how in harmony with the theme of Buffy it would be.

Still, the one thing that always bugged me (at the time I was watching Chosen for the first time) was, ok so now you have hundreds of super-women running around. Buffy wasn't remarkably law-abiding even by Season 2. Now imagine hundreds of women (this could be men too and it wouldn't change it) who suddenly feel the law isn't applicable to them. They go around killing people they claim are vampires, and all of a sudden you know about it. You, being a non-chosen human being who has to live in that world. In that sense, the Slayers may mean well while totally terrorizing everyone around them. Even if they were good, they'd be inadvertently evil at best. And how many comics have been written exploring that very concept anwyay?

In addition to that, not all Slayers are going to be the ideal of good anyway, so now you also have rogue slayers and all the requisite abuses of power that happen every single time in human history that one group is given power over another. You may very well have a situation where Buffy may be good, but what she is leading most certainly is not. The genius is, almost all of this could be going on "off-page" because if she knew about it, she would stop it. See Tom Zarek from BSG.

In that scenario, you could take a rationally thinking Angel and make him the antagonist. Angel is then set up as the champion for the common man (a big Angel series theme) against the well meaning but ultimately abusive Slayers organization. The only reason I don't particularly like that theory is as some people have stated, there's a little bit of misogyny in Twilight that never really seemed to ring true with Angel. Angelus, ok. Angel... 'eh. And why would Angel resort to the B villain antics in the first place?

That, and who wants to read an entire series of comic books where you realize you're cheering for the side that needs to lose? And now that I think about it, why would a rationally thinking Angel want or or need the help of Amy or Warren. Ahh well, speculation is fun ;)

[ edited by azzers on 2010-01-09 06:19 ]
Unless Angel is being controlled by Twilight, and it's a big fake out that's part of his plan. Kind of like a Wizard of Oz thing. Man behind the mask is actually man behind a curtain somewhere pulling strings.
I wonder how Joss feels about this leak if it is true. I also wonder how he would feel about this if it wasn't true. Talk about ruining the impact of a major reveal either way! Ack!

I have no comment on the quality of this until I read it, but I actually have enjoyed the comic an awful lot. Predator and Prey went on for far too long, but Retreat worked for me on a lot of levels. Xander/Dawn and Andrew's storyteller self + really fun character and action moments all adds up to greatness for me.

It wouldn't surprise me too much if it was true, as long as they played it right. They'd need too do an AWESOME job providing the motivation for the entire thing though.

[ edited by rabid on 2010-01-09 06:48 ]
Listening to the audio interview with Scott Allie actually alleviated a lot of my negative kneejerk reaction.
rabid: Scott Allie tweeted "Someone else spoiled it yesterday and Joss thought we should address it since the fansites were all over it."

And I have to say I think this was the wrong aprroach, Dark Horse seem to have caused a lot of anger by their "oh the news out so let's spoil it for the whole fandom" approach. Me, I would have stayed schtum and let fans speculate that the covers were a hoax or a mislead. Blurting it out the reveal on Twitter and Facecook has pissed people off big time. It's not how you play the spoiler game in the Buffy fandom.
Simon - that, among other things, is the reason why I reckon this is all a big fakeout. We know how Joss feels about spoilers and this has got to be one of the biggest spoils in his career. The covers being leaked I could understand, and I could even buy Scott Allie doing an interview to address the cover leaks. But there's no way that he'd do an interview without once being apologetic or explaining how the leak occured - the CBR article makes him sound like a satisfied parent at Christmas watching his kids open a present, and I don't buy it, given how long Joss and Scott have kept Twilight's identity a secret and how hard they've worked to protect it. Add in the fact that Dark Horse is now publically advertising the fact that Twilight is Angel and personally spoiling it for a lot of their fans: something doesn't add up.

And another note (and maybe I'm just stretching here, but still): how is Jo Chen's TPB artwork released already? IIRC this is the earliest we've ever had it released: before all the covers for the arc have been released, and before the arc itself has even started. For it to be ready to be released a day after the covers were leaked, the same day Scott decides to make the announcement, when usually we wouldn't see it for months... it just feels like they're trying too hard to convince us.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for Angel to be Twilight, if that is the case. My only hope is that they make sure this reconciles with the IDW series (which it sounds like it will). I think it's going to have remarkable repercussions for many characters (as several people upthread have said, it's the why of Twilight that's important, not the who) but I have a lot of trouble believing for a second this is genuine.

[ edited by MattManic7325 on 2010-01-09 07:07 ]
MattManic7325: I've seen comic book fakeouts before and if it is one, it's going to extremes. This cockup smacks of the real deal for me.
Wow, it's almost like a bunch of diehard fans spoiled Joss's carefully laid out narrative surprise for themselves by reading comics solicitations clearly marked with spoiler tags, then reacted to this bit of industry news as if it were a story element. And as ever, a few people opined about the nature and worth of the story based on the solicitations, clucking all the while about the usual themes (betrayal, disappointment, etc.).

Played out.

C'mon, folks. Quit trying to figure out Scott Allie's 'tone' - part of his job consists of publicity interviews, and publicity interviews are valueless - and just enjoy the book. Damn.
(And if this is an April Fool's Day joke, it's a fine one.)
Wow, it's almost like a bunch of diehard fans spoiled Joss's carefully laid out narrative surprise for themselves by reading comics solicitations clearly marked with spoiler tags, then reacted to this bit of industry news as if it were a story element.

A little less presumptuous snark please, not everyone deliberately set out to see the spoilers. Many, myself included, had it spoiled for them as a result of Scott & DH posting about it (not angry at them - just saying).
LOL! This was a great idea for APRIL solicitations.
This all reminds me of the Dollhouse April Fool's joke. *fond memories*
The series didn't spend multiple seasons emphasizing the fact that Angel is supposed to be a champion for the weak for nothing.

So taking down the Slayer army isn't being a champion for the weak? Robbing banks is just one of the many abuses of power that Buffy and co. are guilty of.
Boo. whatever happens I'll just be happy if Twilight really isn't Giles (like the 'Amy-spy' issue led me to finally conclude, after all his shiftiness.. even with all the subliminal 'T's over his head). Because that would just be way too sad.
"reading comics solicitations clearly marked with spoiler tags"

It's actually currently the leading story on the front page of the Comic Book Resources site - with no spoiler protection at all. Which seems a bit gormless on CBR's part, actually. Hmm, yes. It is without gorm.
Yeah I don't what CBR is playing at. It'd be like be revealing the mysterious figure that is helping Norman Osborn in Marvel's Dark Reign before the relevant "reveal" issue came out.
I think the thing that makes me want this to be fake is not that I hate to be spoiled, because I do but admit to my own weakness for it. It is not the leak of the covers -- it is that after waiting so many years for this reveal, I'm pissed that they would even give away Angel's return on the cover at all, let alone him in the Twilight outfit. Although, Dark Willow was given away as well if you read the advances. And then, it was all about the how and why there was a Dark Willow, and it didn't really matter that I'd seen that cover because I hadn't been looking at what I thought I was looking at, even though nothing had been false about it.

So I'll just wait and see.
So, Twilight is just a big fluffy puppy with bad teeth?
Still don't believe it, especially with how this has been revealed. I think this is the same as what idw tried to do in hiding Angel being human in Atf. Franco drew an image of Angel as a vamp to mislead us. This is just on a much bigger scale, two Jo Chen covers and one George J. cover.
And on another note, i seriously can not believe how Spike has completely dissapeared from the world, it's like Joss has absolutely no intrest in the character.
This all reminds me of the Dollhouse April Fool's joke. *fond memories*

LOL, aaah, good times.

Maybe Twilight is the bear.
Agreed, Vergil. But he was only in the 'verse for 7 seasons so it is easy to dismiss him, right? The explanation for his and Angel's absence used to be that IDW owned Angel and Spike but if this reveal is on-target that would be just 'cover'.
Again, something is just not right in all of this. If this is really an elaborate prank, I am not sure it is a good one (though obviously it has people talking) and I am not sure it is the best way to treat a fandom that loves what you do. And there is no real reason to use a foiler here anyway; we are not talking about nuclear fusion or some such, just a comic that a hundred and fifty thousand people regularly read. If it is not a foiler, and there was a leak, it is a major damned leak and someone's head should roll, because, as noted upthread, you don't spend a few years developing this story line only to spoil it at the solicitation phase. While I still want to think this is a foiler, I am beginning to believe that it is not, because I just can't believe anyone would have thought doing such a foil was anywhere near necessary, not when there was good spec going on in fandom, and people were really looking forward to the upcoming reveal. Playing games with that is dangerous. This is really messed up.
Last April Fox posted a video reveal Paul as Echo's handler. Last April being a bunch of episodes into season one. Mistakes happen. I don't know if this was a mistake or if Joss' plan was to have it as a big publicity reveal. Let's face it - Buffy sleeping with a girl turned into a publicity vehicle (and a good one).
There are already 119 comments above mine, so please forgive me if someone else already said this, but I hadn't the time to check everyone post here.
Angel being Twilight doesn't make much sense to me, if "Angel after the fall" comics is considered canon too... but it could make sense if Angelus is Twilight (in the serial Angelus was often called Angel).
It could make sense if, what it's happening now in Btvs comics was timed when he and the others were still in the "dimension hell", but thank to Harmony, we know Angel and the others are back on this plane too.
I'm pretty sure there is more about him being Twilight, because while there were often, leaps in the stories, I don't think any authors would have such a no-sense in the comics... or at least I hope so.
Not only were the timelines in sinc by Harmony Bites, there's been time since the events in LA for a big Hollywood blockbuster with an A-list actor to be greenlit, filmed and CGI'd. So, still not buying it if both books are supposed to coordinate.

Now if they didn't, wouldn't it be like having Superman turn out to be evil in issues of The Fantastic Four?

I've been a bit annoyed that the Angel comics were bounced around to other writers after Brian, and I felt Joss was neglecting Angel - I guess this explains why. He had his own plans for. I'm not sure whether I like the fact that Angel is Twilight, (if this isn't an April Fool's joke) but this is sure to make the storyline interesting. I do love Angel being in S8 in any way, shape or form.

Tbh, I can't imagine any reason Angel would resort to this - I can't believe he would attack Buffy. I think Angelus would rather be staked than wear that outfit and lead an army of humans. Actually, I can't believe Angel would wear that, especially the mask (his hair!!).
Then again, maybe becoming Twilight is a cover up for some other aim. It's very like Angel to pretend to be dark/evil in order to achieve something (Black Thorn?). Or maybe it's some other villain taking Angel's form in order to throw Buffy.

A part of me still thinks it's an April Fool's joke, but if it's not, I can't help but *squee* at the thought of having Angel/or someone pretending to be Angel in the comics. I'm intrigued and excited!
They're making fun of us right now for believing this.
I'm just gonna wait and see before passing judgement. I'm not going to complain much if it's a ruse, but I can't say I totally disbelieve either.

[ edited by Watcher's Pet on 2010-01-09 16:59 ]

[ edited by Watcher's Pet on 2010-01-09 17:00 ]
Nah don't believe it:)

If it is....they better make it make sense and not affect current IDW continuity!
Thanks Simon, I missed that tweet :).

While I'm really excited about the upcoming storyline, I completely agree with you. This seems like the wrong approach to the entire situation. I for one was still having fun speculating. Barring implausible hoax, it also kind of ruins the 3 month build we had coming up.

Even if it turns out to initially be Angel. I say it's "Angel" as in Ethan Rayne with a little bit of glamour xD.

[ edited by rabid on 2010-01-09 18:05 ]
Since we're on to "was Dark Horse right to do this," just to avoid more discussion of their actions based on speculation I'll mention that I talked to Scott Allie briefly yesterday and he said Joss wanted them to address this since the cat was out of the bag. The tweets and interview and such were their attempt to do that. They didn't realize pushing the information out via methods that make it difficult to not be spoiled was the wrong way to go about it. This all seems strange precisely because they accidentally gave up their closely guarded secret and then shouted it from the rooftops the next day. But that's because they were trying to do right by fans and clear up any confusion about their mistake.

It's the truth, as strange as its arrival has been. If an interview with Scott Allie doesn't convince you I doubt my comment will either, but if you have been waffling on what to believe hopefully this additional datapoint helps.
scarecroe asked:

Scott says that the Jeanty cover is an homage to a Superman annual with Wonder Woman. Anyone know which one? I couldn't find it.

It's not an Annual, but the reference is almost certainly to the cover and first page of Action Comics #600 (1988), which is itself referencing the cover to Superman Annual #7 (1963).
Wasn't Twilight taller than Riley?
Nah, he was kind of a pipsqueak next to Riley actually...and I think he was floating then too.

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