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January 13 2010

(SPOILER) Joss Whedon on Buffy's future, Twilight's reveal and Spike's fate. It's the second part of his Comic Book Resources interview.

Spike's not going to be a werewolf? Well, that sucks.....
Will he sparkle?
Will he have a costume too?
I don't think anybody's going to gasp in horror when I say "I'm not going to tell you!"

*gasps in horror*

And also, I totally saw it coming that Angel was a vampire. (Okay, so I actually watched AtS before BtVS, but it sounds cooler when I pretend I have magical predict-y powers.)
I hate Spike, so I kind of hope he sticks to IDW and not Buffy Season Eight.

That being said, I am curious to know if Buffy (and Xander, etc.) know he's alive. There have been no clues in Angel Season Five, After the Fall, or Buffy Season Eight about this tidbit.
Spike is "incredibly important to Buffy." Thanks, Joss. Nice to have that line to quote after being told many times that he's not. :)

Okay, excuse me while I go off into a corner and bounce in excitement at Joss writing Spike.

Oh wait, anyone else notice that CBR called our fandom a "vampire fandom"? Sorry, but I think we're a "vampire slayer fandom" first and formoest.
Riker, i totally agree...yeah he's important to her....but I just don't like him...and as such Joss shouldn't bring him into season 8...thank you and goodnight!
Well, I like Spike and I like Riley and sometimes, I like Angel too. The more the merrier, I say.

I'm still waiting on Lindsey showing up some-freaking-where.
Vampire Fandom? Ew, that's almost insulting. :P
Very happy news!!!
I was hoping Asian Dan would be back. As Twilight. :(
Since including Spike has tended to make the shows better, from were I stand, I see this as a positive development.

Maybe he can spice S8 up a little.
Spike is the only reason I stuck with Buffy (and the only reason I decided to catch up with Angel in s4). I think the character enhances any story in the 'verse. Glad to know that Joss also acknowledges this.
Well I like Spike too - so this is indeed happy news. I kind of like the idea that his reveal has been left till last...
I'm glad Spike isn't around, it doesn't need to turn into the Spike show again. I like the character, but the break from him is fine by me. Season 8 is already filled with too many characters as is anyway and should have more focus.
"defintely bigger...pushing a new direction...not the whole story...." Much what I've been saying. I'm almost still looking forward to this.
Personally, I never saw either Buffy or Angel turn into "the Spike show". I have no idea what you all watched but apparently it wasn't what I did.
Season 9 sounds freaking epic. I hope its not that much shorter, though.

Also, Spike! I sometimes disliked what happened to him (and him because of it), but I definitely agree he makes shows better. Several shows would benefit from the addition of a Spike. Jersey Shore, perhaps?
Menomegirl - you needed to watch with those Bangel-polarized lenses.
I'm glad to hear all of this. Today is a good day to be a Buffy fan.
Spike makes everything better. I wish it had been the Spike show. There was never enough Spike in my opinion.
I'm glad to hear that Joss hasn't really been following what they have been doing over at IDW. Makes me feel more at ease with quitting those comics once the Joss approved content stopped.
baxter-Oh, I see. No wonder I'm not seeing the same thing. Mine are Lindsey/Angel-polarized.....
Lioness I don't understand that concept at all. Are you nothing but Joss' sheep? You should read or not read depending on whether you enjoy them, not because Joss is your shepherd. I'm a littled boggled at this attitude. I know everybody talks about "joss is my god" but until lately, I always thought that was toungue in cheek.
Xane - c'mon... just TRY the cool-aide... less filling and more taste!
And this is the true result of having both Angel and potentially Spike show up on Buffy. The Angel vs Spike and B/A vs B/S debates. Again. I really had hoped it was over in terms of further content. It's not like we don't have enough OLD content to still cause dissent.

It always disturbs me though when I see post after post of things like, "never enough Spike", "Spike made everything better", "Spike is the only reason I stuck with Buffy".

It's why I was happy to have the comics with just the core 4 - even as a B/Aer, I didn't need Angel to show up. I really hope Joss isn't doing this just to tweak fans and shippers.
Xane, I don't have time to read/watch everything. I chose to follow what Joss does because I like his storytelling. I trust what he does or has his writers do. How that makes me a "sheep' is beyond my understanding. Or are you just naturally nasty?
Well, Spike was the reason I started watching Buffy, and my favourite character, but I did read the Buffy comics without him involved. I think I'd rather neither of them showed up than Buffy end up with Angel (or snuggle on a cover) but that's my own preference.

And yes, I'd rather not have the wars begin anew.
Imblack21, agreed. Shippers get a little exhausting. I don't care who Buffy ends up with. Hell, I'd rather she stay single. If you think shippers aren't a little overboard, check out Twilight fans. I had to deal with shippers on Veronica Mars as well between Logan and Duncan.

It's not my focus when it comes to my love for Buffy. I just don't care. I feel like some people simply watched Buffy and Angel because of Angel or Spike crushes and that was their main motivation in the end.
Lol...it's funny GhostsWatcher cause I actually am a shipper myself. I love B/A, would love to have them be all cuddly, and end up together etc. I just didn't need it on the comics and never expected it. I was happy enough with what we got in Chosen. I was able to fill in the blanks myself or with fanfic. I was thrilled to see the focus be back on Buffy and the SG.

But now it's starting all over again and I'm just already exhausted by it.
I am a diehard shipper and I think romantic relationships are THE most important relationship in any show, movie, or book.

Shipper wars are intense. I'm already seeing posts in this thread that make me want to jam a screwdriver into my hard drive.

That being said, another shippers war would be tiring, so I hope Spike sticks to IDW and saves Angel for Buffy. ;-)

[ edited by Riker on 2010-01-14 04:46 ]
Imblack21, well you're a sane and sensible shipper then. You aren't overboard with it and can understand that there's a time and place for those moments, and at this point in the comics, it's just not the time with only nine issues to go. I think at this point Joss may be afraid of choosing between Angel and Spike because of the hardcore fans. Some fans will be very very upset no matter who Buffy chooses now. Maybe he'll avoid it forever and tease fans. Fine by me.

[ edited by GhostsWatcher on 2010-01-14 04:46 ]
One thing's for sure: there will be no shipping fights here. That includes today.

Xane, consider this a warning not to insult other posters.
Don't worry, I'm starting my own Bangel-only site. ;-)
This has been a crazy week for a Whedon fan.

The Dollhouse episode, the Twilight reveal, and now the possible return of Spike to Buffy. Wow?

Imblack21, well you're a sane and sensible shipper then. You aren't overboard with it and can understand that there's a time and place for those moments, and at this point in the comics, it's just not the time with only nine issues to go. I think at this point Joss may be afraid of choosing between Angel and Spike because of the hardcore fans. Some fans will be very very upset no matter who Buffy chooses now. Maybe he'll avoid it forever and tease fans. Fine by me.


LOL! It's actually Lmblack, but it's cool And I'm sure there are plenty who would disagree with your assessment, but I thank you for it. The thing is, as much as I love B/A, I didn't just love Buffy or just love Angel or just love one "fill in the blank" character. I didn't watch just for one character. I loved so many, so many relationships and friendships and it made the whole experience richer for me.

I actually hate the idea of Joss continuing to tease/tweak shippers. It's why I would have preferred that both Angel and Spike stay away. Or if Angel was going to show, keep Spike away. I do agree that I don't believe Joss will ever really let her choose anymore so it's kinda silly to have them both show up just to maintain the status quo. So he could have avoided it by just not addressing it any more than he had already in "Chosen" and season 5 of AtS.

Instead I now have to worry about it again - wish I didn't - and even more worryingly, worry about Angel himself. I have so firmly taken the approach of "wait and see" before I judge that it's not even funny. I just hope it doesn't all go horribly, horribly wrong.
I didn't watch just for one character. I loved so many, so many relationships and friendships and it made the whole experience richer for me.

Yes, this. Exactly.
I guess I will go on record as the fan who isn't worried in the least. Shipper wars be damned. I trust Joss to thrill us and give us one heck of a ride. I guess I am a shipper too, by standards placed upon me from fans, but I have never watched the series soley for Buffy's relationship with ....insert the name. I'm not going to mention my preference cause the point is, it wasn't what kept me watching. Buffy, Giles, Angel, the core four, B/G, Angelus, S/D, Tara, etc... those are the real dynamics in the Universe. Buffy herself is the star for me. That being said, it doesn't surprise me that Spike is coming. In fact, I would have been surprised if he didn't. The thing for me is HOW he's coming. I have my own theories and I can't wait to see it all play out. Joss is brilliant, what else do we need to know at this point?
Joss was pretty vague on Spike's return - it wouldn't surprise me if he's meant to be returning in Season 9. Depending on how much of that Joss has plotted out, he could be planned to be returning at the end of Season 9, which for all we know might not be till 2013.
Spike will be in future comics, whether they be S8 or S9? Cool with me. I'm not a huge Spike fan (found him to be a bit annoying sometimes) but am still a fan (he does have one of the best "famous last words" lines I've ever heard)and I trust Joss. I just hope it doesn't take away too much from the core 4 (or, I guess, 5 now, with Dawn). Hopefully it will add to the story and not get too 'shippy (I am neither B/A or B/S so if it does, I'll just stay on the sidelines and steal the victims' personal effects).
Spike is the bee's knees and also the cat's pajamas. Can't wait. I do wish Joss read all of the IDW Angel comics, because it would be cool knowing that those are in the back of his mind as well, but man I loved the rest of this interview.
LMBlack, no one mentioned shipping here until you did - Most of us were just expressing like [or dislike] of the particular character in question. It has nothing to do with 'shipping'.
The use of the word "Bangel" upthread preceded lmblack's first post - and that's as clear a sign of shipping as you could want. To reiterate: we don't do shipping here, whether it's directly or obliquely stated, and whether it's discussing a preference, or commenting on the phenomenon. Let's just not. Thanks.
Having been a fan of Spike through seasons four and five I felt the character over-used especially during the seventh season with the whole, in my eyes unnecessary, trigger thing. I appreciate highly his absence through season 8 and look forward to a re-appearance of him that really makes sense.
Well, this does partially answer one of my burning questions, at least...

I really need to get caught up on the comics so I can properly enjoy all this.
Disclaimer: This is not a 'shipper post.

Joss said:
" Brad said to me, "When you do 'Season 9,' you should do like they do at Marvel and get everybody in a room to plot it out with them rather than just send everybody a big memo" which is what I did with this "That way, you're going to get a story that's way more focused and heading exactly where you want it to be, and it will get everybody way more on board with where it needs to go, and the whole thing will be quicker and more cohesive in terms of your big arc." And I thought that was rather wise. And in fact, that is the plan.

Thank fucking god. I like Season 8 tons, have loved certain bits of it, but it's felt like it needed a different approach, focus-wise, especially since the end of "Time of Your Life". I may feel differently after the conclusion and maybe a re-read. Maybe Brad's suggestion to Joss will be less effective than Joss' memo model, but...it sounds promising. To be fair, this was new territory for Joss and Scott Allie, organization-wise. It's still one big bonus in the first place, more canon Buffy.

On the flipside, very cool of Joss to encourage the other Season 8 writers to really go for it, he's a very generous showrunner/producer.

Has Brad weighed in yet on all this, any post-reveal interviews ? I mean the Twilight reveal mostly--it was going to be a major selling point of his issues, still is for some unspoiled folks out there and for those of us who're still eager to see it as it happens in-story.

I don't hate Spike, but I think he's way overexposed/overused/overhyped/overloved. Recurring in Season 2, excellent. The one-off in Season 3, not bad. Kinda goofy making him a mostly-comedy-extra regular later into Season 4 (but okay, I bit), and I loved his arc and what it did for Buffy's in Seasons 5 and moreso 6. But then he needed to go away and make only intermittent appearances, or die. But he kinda ate large portions of Season 7, saving little for others I would've rather seen explored (or maybe Spike just needed a different-shaped arc for that year). And he really didn't need to be in Angel Season 5 (I know it was part of The WB's mandate for renewing after Season 4 though, oh well), though I wouldn't trade away his appearances in "Damage" and maybe one or two other bits. That's enough broken record, onto stuff I haven't said in the past.

I can live with a Season 8 appearance, but I'd rather it happen in Season 9 (or it can be Joss' last-page reveal, if he wants). Other than that, keep Spike in his own book. Absence can make the heart grow fonder, y'know ?

Riker, there's the fact that Andrew knows Spike is alive. You're right that there's no direct indication that Buffy et all know Spike is alive, but Andrew's a part of their group and you'd think he'd have mentioned it. Also, Buffy's three-way dream (Angel/Buffy/Spike--I still want to see a show that resolves an annoying triangle this way, but I'm not holding my breath for it to happen in the Buffyverse, Angel and Spike are too alpha-male and have too much history) didn't come with any baggage about Spike being dead. I know the subconscious isn't all that reliable, but I figured Buffy would've had something in there about Spike being dust, seeing as her Slayer dreams are more vivid/meaningful than the average human's. She has to know.

Emmie said:
"Spike is "incredibly important to Buffy." Thanks, Joss. Nice to have that line to quote after being told many times that he's not. :)"

Unless Joss just meant that Spike's important to Buffy the series, heh. Sorry Emmie, just poking fun, don't let me steal your sunshine (but he might've meant it that way!).

menomegirl said:
"I'm still waiting on Lindsey showing up some-freaking-where."

He got a mention in "After the Fall" (maybe he got two ? I'd need a more hardcore IDW fan or Brian Lynch to confirm it). The Senior Partners (or whoever was talking to Wesley in what I figured might've been The White Room) threaten to bring back a zombified Lindsey if Wesley doesn't start obeying. Which they totally could, what with their contract clause and all (ghost-Lilah's another example). But unless they needed his visage to jolt someone, why bother ? I liked Lindsey too (not so much his lame/vague reasons for returning in Season 5, although I liked his last few episodes from being tortured in the too-perfect dimension onward), but he was really played out. Some characters in the Jossverse just need to stay dead. Lindsey, Jenny, Tara, and Joyce, just off the top of my head.

If Willow (for whatever reason) did a powerful, permanent, blanket no-resurrection spell across the entire planet (and our moon, just for good measure) before the end of these Joss-involved comics, I would be an even happier Buffyverse reader. If such a thing happened, it'd be cool if they informed IDW too.

Changeling said:
"Since including Spike has tended to make the shows better, from were I stand, I see this as a positive development."

Spike was in my favorite Buffy seasons (he was in all of them except Season 1, so that's an easy thing to say without going into specifics), so I won't debate that. However, Angel the series got along fine without him. The bulk of Season 2 and 4 was fantastic, IMO (yeah, I know, he appeared in flashback in Season 2).

baxter said:
"I think [Spike] enhances any story in the 'verse. Glad to know that Joss also acknowledges this."

Joss said nothing of the sort (nor did he hint or imply). Nice re-interpretation of that portion of the interview.

GhostsWatcher said:
"Shippers get a little exhausting. I don't care who Buffy ends up with. Hell, I'd rather she stay single."

Amen. Remember the second half of Buffy Season 5 ? Buffy attempted to go on a date with Ben. Beyond that, very little that was ripe for 'shipping when it came to Buffy (sure, Angel showed up after her mom's funeral, naturally. There was also Spike's growing obsession and getting a thank-you kiss for protecting Dawn, but beyond that, nothing in the second half of Season 5 made Buffy's romantic relationships the point of the show and it was so fucking refreshing. They are a part of the overall whole, not the main point. I'd contend that the overall themes of found-family that're present in most of Joss' work are just as compelling as the romantic couplings).

Riker said:
"so I hope Spike sticks to IDW and saves Angel for Buffy. ;-) "

Heh, I see what you did there.

If, um, things were promised to get a little slashy, I guess I wouldn't mind some serious Spike in Season 8.

[ edited by Kris on 2010-01-14 08:39 ]
"It always disturbs me though when I see post after post of things like, "never enough Spike", "Spike made everything better", "Spike is the only reason I stuck with Buffy".

It's why I was happy to have the comics with just the core 4 - even as a B/Aer, I didn't need Angel to show up. I really hope Joss isn't doing this just to tweak fans and shippers.
lmblack21 | January 14, 04:12 CET"

Since the fourth comment in this thread was "I hate Spike" maybe some of us are just trying to provide a little balance.
I don't need Spike in the Buffy comic, I'm happy with fanfic. And with the IDW comics.

[ edited by Xane on 2010-01-14 09:02 ]

[ edited by Xane on 2010-01-14 09:03 ]
This gave me a big happy. Maybe I'm not completely over the Buffyverse, after all...
More importantly, when are we going to get Marcie Ross back?
I agree with enisy. I was pretty much at a point were I read the comic books only for a sense of completition and I felt they were getting slower and slower ever since NFFY.
This might get them up to speed again.
I'll never be over the buffyverse, even now I am in my 30s...
Completely awesome, love the fan that provided the question.
And Joss's stance hasn't changed much since the beginning of season8. Spike is incredibly important to Buffy, Spike will appear in the Buffy comics.
I hope Joss doesn't pay too much attention to what Idw's doing. Stopped buying their comics a while back because of how unintresting/static Spike's journey was.
Now Buffy comics are the only ones i buy, so i'm happy that Angel will appear in those too.
For the question as to when Spike might appear, i'd say either in the final arc(back-up) for Buffy against Mr fashion-disaster. If not then, then obviously it will be in season9.
What part made you feel not completely over the Buffyverse ? The overall Joss interview, or his comments on specific characters ? It's exciting that all this open flow of info about Season 8 and the IDW comics has made more than a few people say they feel more confident about the franchise/more willing to stick it out a bit longer/more interested in checking out one book or the other after having dropped Buffy and/or Angel.

Don't love the spoiler, but do love the discussions it generated and how it prompted the writers and publishers' editors to be more vocal than usual. Up until now, the status of how each company's higher-ups and Joss regarded the relationship between the two titles had been too vague or non-existant.

And sorry, but Bill Willingham should pay close attention to what goes on in Buffy Season 8 and the two series should still be linked, if possible (I don't mean linked up/reunited/crossed-over, but at least feeling like they still exist within the same coherent universe, the way it felt back on TV). He could score major brownie points with fans if he casually/subtly works developments into his Angel comics that pay off as character development in Buffy Season 8 (once he and the rest of us know more about what's up). They don't have to be anything major or interrupting of what he has planned. I assume the ongoing Angel at IDW is still taking place before the beginning of Buffy Season 8, so there's likely lots of room to play for a while and all he'd need are small nods.

[ edited by Kris on 2010-01-14 10:24 ]
Because Angel and Spike can't show up unless someone's having sex with someone? Spike's best moments are when he's being fun and Angel's best moments are when he's being broody (my biggest worry about Twilight is that he'll get all wordy). In any case both of their relationships have been explored to the Nth degree in the TV show. What could the writers possibly do-- cover the same ground they did for 7 seasons, but IN SPACE? I'd rather just have Angel and Spike around as, you know, characters being involved in plots for a bit. It would be fun.
Kris, Willinghams arc is written, by the time Twilight is revealed let alone explained it will be nearly through.

The man is no mindreader. Either Joss talks tacheles with him and lets him in on the story, or Willingham can do nothing of consequence except insanely nodding in the directions he thinks Joss might want to take Angel. Sorry, but I'd prefer he'd stay true to his vision to that.

Either a full collaboration from both sides or creative freedom for the writer. A writer trying to guess a story he's referencing too can only make for continuity conflict.
Don't worry, I'm starting my own Bangel-only site. ;-)
Riker | January 14, 04:48 CET


*Happily waves "bye"!*

I don't even read the comics and have only followed this because of the big deal being made of it.
But nothing is more annoying that a shipper getting in one more comment, after everyone has been warned by a mod, to stop.
A bi-annual luncheon with Joss, Scott, and Chris in attendance is really all that this fandom needs.
I was simply commenting on my delight that Joss acknowledged Spike's importance to Buffy - by that I mean the 'verse not the 'ship'. Indeed, I think the character is much more interesting on his own than as a Buffy-appendage (true for Angel as well) and was therefore delighted that he actually had his own story/mission on Angel s5 and in the IDW comics. If we take the leaked covers seriously, the 'ship' has sailed and more power (and lots 'o luck) to them. I'm just eager to see where Spike's journey might take him next under the guidance of his 'creator' (fervently hoping it is not beaten to near dust and abandoned in an alley by someone he cares about, of course!) and will tune in for that.
"A bi-annual luncheon with Joss, Scott, and Chris in attendance is really all that this fandom needs. "

or a beer summit. what kind of beer do you think Joss drinks? if he does at all?
The idea of season 9 being more focused in terms of story arc = made of win.
what kind of beer do you think Joss drinks?

The foamy kind??
I enjoyed Spike more on Buffy the series, and Angel much more on his own show. That being said, I love them both.

I wouldn't want to imply that I'm only interested in Spike. It was the chemistry between Sarah and James that caught my interest towards my kids' show, but I pretty much love everyone.

I've certainly spent enough on autographs with the whole cast. (Well, maybe not enough - there's lots of holes in my collection.)

[ edited by redeem147 on 2010-01-14 15:35 ]
The notion of a beer summit is a fine and noble one. :)
Buffy best nailed the term herself in "Chosen" when she called it "jealous vampire crap" -- that term easily can be stretched to encapsulate every character vs. character and 'ship vs. 'ship war :)
Aw, I think Riker was just being funny, no? I am clearly too new to the fandom (thought I was an old hand!) because I've never witnessed a shipper war. What happens?

What I loved about Buffy's romantic relationships was the way each one brought something entirely new to the show. I think the writers were right to end the Angel relationship when they did, before they ran out of places it could go. The Riley and Spike relationships were so totally different, and showed us totally different sides of Buffy as well.

I couldn't resist reading these Twilight threads just because there was obviously a BIG KERFUFFLE and I hate missing out on BIG KERFUFFLES but now I'm totally spoiled, and I haven't read any of the comics yet :(. (I'm waiting for an omnibus book type thing to come out... is that going to happen?).
Now I'm wondering what would happen to a vampire if he was bitten by a werewolf? Or if a werewolf (in human form) got vamped?

Didn't Joss himself say that Angel & Spike made the ideal couple? Just not as a 'ship. (Except for that one time.)
What happens?


People get banned for being silly buggers.
Vampire-werewolf jumbles don't intrigue me the way a vamped Slayer does. That's the card I still can't believe they've never played -- could have played it with Kendra, almost had me convinced they would with Faith, and now there are more Slayers than you can find what to do with, and still nothing.
I wonder if a vamped Slayer would loose their Slayer powers, since they'd be physically dead?

Still, intriguing thought.
I apologize for jumping off the wagon a bit, but I think the news of Season 9 being more focused and a mention of Spike took a little away from this:

But again, it's a question of leaving everything that IDW is doing and I'm not aware of everything they're doing, and I haven't read a lot of the stuff and giving just enough [on our end] so it'll jibe with whatever they're doing. It's not like Spike's going to turn up and now he's a werewolf. He'll still be Spike, and we won't constrict them from doing whatever stories they want.


My mention (and stress in bold) is not to open debate on cannon or not, but more of a concern that they don't repeat what happened this week.

I hope that after Twilight-gate, Joss would read up on the IDW comics (especially Lynch's upcoming Spike series) before deciding how Spike turns up in Buffy. A little more communication could go a long way into effort.

This would be a good time for Chris Ryall & Brian Lynch to give Joss the 411 on what they're doing with Spike, yes?
Sorry Korkster but i see it the other way around. Brian and Chris should be the ones informed where the Spike character is going. It's Joss's character and i would expect him to lead with the story.
I'm most intrested in seeing where Joss will take the character.
Not much of a fan of Idw's Spike.
I always felt that the story of Spike was brought to a heroic and fittingly spectacular end in Chosen and that he should never have been brought back despite the fact that we love him.Maybe I shouldn't comment about Spike though since I am not reading those issues. Maybe I will quit the comics altogether after issue 40 of season 8.This is getting so expensive. Six dollars a month doesn't seem like much, but it adds up.

Also I really hope the character of Angel isn't completely trashed during the remaining issues of season 8. I am watching the original tv series again now. I had almost forgotten how much I love Angel. I know Joss loves to torture us, but I can't take much more.
People get banned for being silly buggers.

Err, "buggers" is an anti-gay slur, Simon.
That is one of its four plus meanings, I tend to suspect that's not the meaning Simon was using. In colloquial American, for example, it's a diminutive term of affection: for example "cute little bugger". It's also a synonym for chap or bloke.
Well I really think you should remove it because it's offensive. Much more offensive than some other words being admonished around here.
You are welcome to discuss that and any other policy quibbles with us by email.
I've made my point clear. :)
I think I should have worn my parka. It's getting chilly in here....
Although I'm more of an Angel fan than a Spike fan, I do love Spike (most of the time - there are parts of S6 that I just cannot watch). However, I do think it would be better if Angel being in S8 was dealt with first before throwing Spike in. Otherwise it would lead to an inevitable shipper war which will probably just overshadow everything. Also, I agree with Kris, he is overexposed/overloved/overhyped/ and sometimes overused, at least it seems that way even if he isn't: I seem to see so much pro-Spikeishness online than any other character. I also think that introducing Spike anytime in the near future could not contribute much to the storyline, other than bringing the B/A vs B/S argument again and him mocking people (which I suppose I wouldn't mind).

I really want to concentrate on the issues surrounding Angel and how his being Twilight affects not only Buffy, but his struggle for redemption & his Shanshu (one reason I love Angel's character more than Spike's).
I've also had one horrible not-quite-so-irrational-considering-what-Joss-likes-to-do-to-his-characters fear that Angel may perhaps, possibly, slightly end up dead when all of this ends. Therefore I say to Joss: please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please don't end this by Angel having to be killed, or become permanently evil or something. I honestly don't think I could take it! I'll probably sink into depression and then I won't be able to do my work and then I'll do badly at school, get bad grades etc... I've been too invested in both series and Angel's character for too long!

[ edited by Shep on 2010-01-14 20:01 ]
I've made my point clear. :)


As have I, see you in a while.
The death of Angel... I'm on a Joss Whedon forum and I can't believe I didn't even think of that. Shep, you are a genius.
Also, I agree with Kris, he is overexposed/overloved/overhyped/ and sometimes overused


I feel the same way...about Angel.
Well without getting into the fifth level of hell that is character bashing. Way I see it : Angel sells more but Spike has a more devoted fanbase.

So everyone wins.
I heart all of them. Spike just happens to have won my best-fictional-moment-ever award for his pitiable, insane ramblings while draped over a cross and burning in Beneath You. Like some above, I prefer the boys as their own men, but the things Buffy (inadvertantly) does to both of them, psychologically, makes them much more interesting (to me, anyway).
I will be very glad to see Spike again but I'm very afraid of the audience' reaction because of all the character hate I see here.

I can only hope that Joss doesn't intend to Stephenie-Meyerize season 8 too much. But, at least he implies that Spike won't play Jacob's role, and that's reassuring.
No staking the Angel please! I mean who would be left to shag poor old Spike?? *g*
No staking the Angel please! I mean who would be left to shag poor old Spike?


Don't worry, honey, our boys are okay. :)

(removed link - sorry, amusing though it may be, it's still shippy and it would be unfair to leave this while admonishing others to avoid shipping).

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2010-01-14 22:24 ]
Moscow, the last thing I'd call Season 8 after the spoilers and this interview is "Stephanie Meyer-ized". I have no idea where that's from. That's outta left field.. except from a different stadium.
I'm a major Bangel person but I love Spike. I just thought his fawning over Buffy in later seasons neutered his character a bit.

Loved him on Angel. Boreanaz and Marsters have better chemistry than anyone else in the Buffyverse.
My friend who doesn't read the comics but sort of heard the spoilers said to me, "Angel's a Twilight vampire? What?"
Moscow, the last thing I'd call Season 8 after the spoilers and this interview is "Stephanie Meyer-ized". I have no idea where that's from. That's outta left field.. except from a different stadium.

KingofCretins | January 14, 22:32 CET


There are several people I know personally, who are casual Buffy fans and casual Twilight fans. All of them think that #34 Chen cover is a homage to Edward/Bella.

Joss himself makes an (unintentional?) parallel to Meyer: in his interview he says that in this situation Spike is not Jacob (werewolf).
Kris: the basic in-the-'verse problem to a 3-way solution to the Buffy-Angel-Spike triangle (the out-of-'verse problem beign what you've said, nobody has the nerve) is that Spike and Angel are both insufficiently gay for that to work very long. It would end up in Kissing Jessica Stein territory quickly. cc not_Bridget (Hmm, I called Angel's mother that in a fic) QingTing

Seriously, tho, while I have cooties about this development taken in isolation, I know it isn't isolated and the possibilities are enticing.
Spike and Angel are both insufficiently gay for that to work very long

There's a legion of fanfic writers willing to prove you wrong. ;)
Spike and Angel are both insufficiently gay for that to work very long.

DaddyCatALSO, I think you were watching different shows than I was, too. :)
Wasn't it Joss who said his heroes were man enough to be gay or something like that? I think he used more colorful language and a reference to a gay comicbook hero who was hardcore in the extreme.
I'm so confused. I've never read comics before in my life but have been buying the volumes (both IDW & DH) and have been considering them canon (due to having read articles that said Joss claimed them canon.) So now because of the Twilight reveal, I'm very confused about the timelines.

I agree shippers can be exhausting though I am one myself. Worse are the ship wars where people can be so incredibly nasty. For that reason alone I couldn't take complete joy in the reveal.
Still I can't *not* react to this from a shipper pov (as I don't think any real shipper can.) My ship was the first one I ever experienced and it shook me to my soul; literally changed my life.
(have refrained from naming ship due to site rules but I'm sure everyone can tell who I mean.)
Heh, redeem147, you left the finger quotes off of 'prove' ;).
Thanks for posting the link, Sunfire. Never read that. Pretty cool. :)
I like that Sunfire likely guided this Spike and Angel thread (originally sparked by a Joss interview) to its natural conclusion by bringing it all back to the best thread we had on slash from four years ago, complete with Joss post.

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