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Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
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January 17 2010

News from the TCA press tour: A Joss Whedon show on FX? John Landgraf, the network president, says that he'll be having lunch with Joss in a couple of weeks (as a result of Joss' representatives calling and scheduling). Landgraf says "I have enormous respect for him".

Also from Televisionary: "I have enormous respect for him," said Landgraf about Joss Whedon.
I'm at the s in squee. I'll quee it when I see the green light. :)
So if Whedon is a big success on Fox cable...does this let the greater Fox family off the hook?

Also, finally!
WHEDON arrives back from the bathroom to find LANDGRAF's food has already arrived and he's started eating.
WHEDON: "Did mine not come yet"
LANDGRAF: "Oh didn't I tell you. I CANCELLED IT."
WHEDON: "Oh..."
LANDGRAF: "I'm just messing with you."
WHEDON: "You sir, are a dick."

That's how imagine it anyway.
Pete Rice, who was involved in getting Dollhouse a second season at FOX, is also taking over a role at FX (as of a few weeks ago).

Not sayin' JW even had any ideas. But it would be a more natural fit for a TV show, one suspects.

[ edited by gossi on 2010-01-17 19:03 ]
So is this gonna be the new thing Joss is known for? First it was killing people, now it's gonna be shows that get started with the headline: Joss Whedon eats lunch.
This is a great idea. I fully support anything that comes out of this.
I think it's kinda creepy to know who joss is going to be having lunch with, by the way.
We're like an army of stalkers. Joss gets home and checks his messages; the fandom breathes heavily into the receiver, "We know about your lunch plans, Joss."
I wonder if the excellence of the show is in some way dependent on the nature and quality of the lunch?
I'm not creeped out by it at all seeing as it's a TV president mentioning a meeting with a TV writer/producer/whatever while at a press event for TV stuff.
If it had been some random person on twitter mentioning seeing Joss eating out somewhere then I'd be creeped out.
God knows I've deleted a few of those from the front page in my time.
We're like an army of stalkers. Joss gets home and checks his messages; the fandom breathes heavily into the receiver, "We know about your lunch plans, Joss."

Hee!
But what will they eat? I need lunch spoilers!
Oh no, I'm trying to avoid the lunch spoilers. It's just not the same as finding out about it in the post-lunch newsletter, you know?
Skip to dessert. I need PIE SPOILERS!!!
What's their cancellation rate like? Are they Fox without the o?
They've made some good programming decisions at FX over the years, except for passing on Breaking Bad. But, I can forgive them for that because they just gave Louis C.K. $250,000 and said 'Do with it what you will' for the pilot of his new show.

The only drawback to a Whedon show on FX would be the budget. FX made the first season of The Shield for $17,000,000 or something like that. I'm sure they can throw more money around these days, but it's not FOX money. Potential upside is too great, though. I like the idea of a 13 episode season. Someone asked Sutter if he'd ever want to do more than 13, and FX would probably let him if he asked given the success of Sons of Anarchy and he said 'No, it's hard enough making 13 good ones'. No wasted motion, no need for standalones. He can tell a compact story in Season 1 and not have to worry about additional episodes or the entire run not airing. That would be nice.

[ edited by Dirk on 2010-01-17 19:31 ]
No idea, but in the same session he also discussed how much room one needs to give serialized storytelling, and recognized that there simply are some shows that aren't designed to give people the convenience of being able to jump into the middle of them.
Didn't Joss also have a meeting with HBO? I don't think this necessarily means big news, but we shall see. I've certainly been pulling for Joss to move to cable for a few years now.
Is it possible they might be picking up Dollhouse? Or are you all thinking they would be talking something new?
It's a little late to pick up Dollhouse. There might not even be anything specific under discussion. Just a "let's talk".
SPOILER! I heard he's drinking diet moo juice with his lunch.
What is the html tag for hiding spoiler text, anyway?
Hollywood power lunches - I always go to that lunch scene in Get Shorty with Danny DeVito, Rene Russo and John Travolta. I'll have the egg-white omelet.
It's a little late to pick up Dollhouse. There might not even be anything specific under discussion. Just a "let's talk".

Didn't Joss write something like 'You'll know what my next project is by the time the last episode of Dollhouse airs' in his last post on whedonesque? I assumed he was talking about a Dr. Horrible sequel, but isn't it possible he's written something/is in the process of writing a new pilot and is taking meetings to find it an appropriate, hopefully cable or at least non-FOX home?

[ edited by Dirk on 2010-01-17 19:46 ]
It's a little late to pick up Dollhouse. There might not even be anything specific under discussion. Just a "let's talk".


That's pretty much my interpretation.
If you're pitching a specific show to a network, you tend to do at a pitch meeting I imagine, not lunch.
My Hollywood Lunch image comes from a scene in The Player - a bunch of Hollywood execs are out to lunch and Tim Robbins goes "We're all intelligent people, can we not talk about movies for once?" Everyone laughs : )
The fandom world is truly bizarre.
My Mom just walked into my room while I read this, and I think I have a silly smile in my face, cause she asked "Why are you smiling? Chatting with your friends...?".

I just replied "No, just read something funny", cause I thought my Mom might think I'm crazy if I say "Joss is going to have lunch with a network person next week!".

I hope we get good news from that.
While I love the comics, would love more web stuff, and would watch any Joss film, I'm happier when I have my weekly 1-hour Whedon doses.
If you're pitching a specific show to a network, you tend to do at a pitch meeting I imagine, not lunch.

Sure, but who is to say he's pitching? He may just be getting a feel for the creative environment at FX/Landgraf. If, as another poster speculated, he's trying to meet with HBO, he might just be feeling out the cable/premium landscape before straight up pitching to any individual network. No need to jump into bed with anyone after one date, right?

[ edited by Dirk on 2010-01-17 19:54 ]
SPOILER! I heard he's drinking diet moo juice with his lunch.
What is the html tag for hiding spoiler text, anyway?


I'm gonna choose to believe that's a foiler until Joss mentions it in an interview.

Also: The how to page.
Didn't Joss also have a meeting with HBO?


I don't remember reading about it.
I'm not saying he's pitching. I'm saying he's probably not. At a guess somebody asked him to lunch and he said yes. And now we're all over it, working out when it'll get cancelled.
I'm not saying he's pitching. I'm saying he's probably not. At a guess somebody asked him to lunch and he said yes. And now we're all over it, working out when it'll get cancelled.

I hear you, man. I think we should resign ourselves to not seeing another Joss TV series until 2011 at the earliest. Even so, taking a look at that comment I referenced in my first post, dot connecting is not entirely illegitimate in this instance. And, as you know, dot connecting (or 'baseless speculation') is a favorite hobby of internet users.

[ edited by Dirk on 2010-01-17 20:02 ]
Simon: What's their cancellation rate like? Are they Fox without the o?


They used to be exactly like Fox, but they went and cancelled the 'o'. (Only not; Nip/Tuck is a cool series.)
Still, I would say that FX has to be a better place than Fox. Can't be worse can it?
I used to watch Dirt, Nip Tuck and The Riches, except FX cancelled them all. (Nip Tuck finishes airing in March). Amusingly Nip Tuck had 2.4 in 18-49 during its last season, which is well over 50% more viewers than Dollhouse. Your episode budgets are also generally much smaller, and everybody gets paid less. And it might not count towards your studio development deal, depends.

[ edited by gossi on 2010-01-17 20:08 ]
I'll go out on a limb and say he's going to make FX's first pay-per-view internet series. This is based on the first thing that popped into my head.
We know he can work with a small budget (Dr. Horrible) but not with the ## expectations of one of the big 4 networks. Cable is definitely a better place for him.
It could mean there might be a show on FX. It could also mean Joss Whedon eats...
I can see "Ripper" on FX.

I can see it. I can see it.

Then again that just might be me waking up from a nice dream again. We'll see.

I'll have whatever Joss is having.
I don't wish to sound like an anxious parent but...the last time someone told me they really respected me and offered to take me out for lunch...well let's just say their intentions weren't at all honourable. Should we be concerned for Joss? After all what do we really know about this John Landgraf?
...with tv network executives on a semi-regular basis.
I heard a rumor that the new show will star Conan O'Brien and Andy Richter as buddy cops. This is based on one of the voices in my head that likes to share rumors with the other voices.
I've watched and uniformly loved virtually every show on FX. They only cancelled The Riches, Dirt, Over There and Thief prematurely. Two of which were due to the strike.

Sons of Anarchy, The Shield and Damages are all excellent shows. The first two seasons of Nip/Tuck were amazing. So the idea of Joss going to FX is great news for me, although his style is quite different from their brand.
Maybe it'll result in a show about Joss having lunch with people. It seems to be an exciting concept.
I used to watch Dirt, Nip Tuck and The Riches, except FX cancelled them all. (Nip Tuck finishes airing in March). Amusingly Nip Tuck had 2.4 in 18-49 during its last season, which is well over 50% more viewers than Dollhouse. Your episode budgets are also generally much smaller, and everybody gets paid less. And it might not count towards your studio development deal, depends.

Isn't Nip/Tuck just ending? I was under the impression that Ryan Murphy wanted to end it so that he could shift his focus to Glee and other projects? They're going to have produced 100 episodes, too. A decent run, I'm sure Joss would take that.

They kept The Shield on the air for 7 years despite the fact that it's ratings started to dwindle over time.

As for Dirt and The Riches, they were both hurt by the writers strike, if I recall. Both received orders for a second season and neither one was a world beater ratings wise. Damages was picked up for two seasons after its first and it's numbers have fallen below 2,000,000 on first run airings.

Thief was lamentable, it wasn't a miniseries (though FX played it that way). It was pretty well written, did OK in the ratings, and had some good performances. That's the only show that

I'd say, by and large, they tend to be pretty good to their dramas. They give pretty much everything a second season, they promote their shows, and give them a chance to build an audience. Sons of Anarchy is proof of that, it grew significantly in its second year.

[ edited by Dirk on 2010-01-17 20:28 ]
Maybe it'll result in a show about Joss having lunch with people. It seems to be an exciting concept.

I'm A Celebrity, Get In My Belly!
Futon Critic item with quotes indicates it was Joss' people who contacted FX.
Okay, that puts a different spin on it.
Yay for a decent link. Also what show did Carlton Cuse work on?
I'm thinking he might have been speaking more generally in terms of impact rather than direct underlinging. Or, he's just confused.
I've gone off the deep end of assumptions. I'm setting my DVR to record FX (ALL OF IT), making a website, and of course writing fan mail begging FX to change their minds about the cancellation. This is my favorite show I've never even heard of yet!
Yes, but I think Simon was asking what Whedon show Cuse worked on, which appeared to be the context of the remark that had been made.
I heard a rumor that the new show will star Conan O'Brien and Andy Richter as buddy cops. This is based on one of the voices in my head that likes to share rumors with the other voices.

But... But... The voices said they'd given me an exclusive on that rumour!
Mmmmm.....a new Joss Whedon tv series on cable....I wouldn't push it out of bed. But I am a generally a negative person, so I say it ain't happening and will be sad until they announce a project (or forever).
and of course writing fan mail begging FX to change their minds about the cancellation.

Good point. Obviously the 'Save Dollhouse' sites weren't started early enough. We'll have to start even sooner this time. And someone might want to get cracking on the save-it-sites for the that show he'll be doing in 2016 that he hasn't even started to think about yet.

But... But... The voices said they'd given me an exclusive on that rumour!

Well, I was a little sneaky. The voices think I don't hear them chatting at the water cooler, but I was eavesdropping.

[ edited by Xantastic1316 on 2010-01-17 21:00 ]
We should start SaveJoss.com.
Damnit. I'm excited about something that could very well lead to nothing.

Still, Joss going to cable would be fantastic.
Question: could Joss be wanting to meet with FX in order to more easily continue/maintain his relationship with 20th Century FOX Television (the production studio), which has basically always been good to him? Meaning, is there a benefit to trying to continue to have shows aired through a network that's a sister company to the studio he's worked so well with?
Well I'm not sure if publicizing the lunch is a good or bad thing, certainly lunch is the 2nd (or possibly the 3rd) most important meal of the day! I hope Joss enjoys it as much as the one he had with Eliza a few years ago.
Hey, didn't the idea for Dollhouse start with Eliza and Joss eating lunch together?

I'm wondering what he's going to do next.

He's done vampires, demons, superheroes, western in space and Dollhouse. He also did an internet musical. I'm curious what he has in the cards next.
We should start SaveJoss.com.



The question is, which denomination would run it? Or would it be an equal opportunity ecumenical type thing?
Or maybe just the Church of Satan's gig?
SO many questions...
Apparently the Carlton Cuse connection was with Shawn Ryan, not Joss. IGN cleared up the confusion.

Landgraf added, "I have enormous respect for [Whedon]," and brought up one of FX's most successful series creator's, The Shield's Shawn Ryan, noting, "If you look at Shawn Ryan, he learned at the feet of Joss Whedon - the Joss Whedon school. And [Lost executive producer] Carlton Cuse by the way, as well." Ryan worked for Whedon on Angel and Cuse on Nash Bridges, before creating The Shield.



[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2010-01-17 21:17 ]
He's done vampires, demons, superheroes, western in space and Dollhouse. He also did an internet musical. I'm curious what he has in the cards next.


Aliens.

Oh wait, he did that. Didn't work out so well...
A Whedon show on FX would be awesome. I would love it, however, the fandom who is already having huge issues with the edginess and lack of a moral center in Dollhouse? That will be a spectacular kerfuffle to watch. I can't think of a single recent FX show where there are any good guys. Everyone is evil. Bring it on!

I can't wait for Justified with Timothy Olyphant myself.

Someone above mentioned that a FX show isn't made for FOX money. Hell, Dollhouse wasn't made for FOX money. At least season 2 wasn't.
All that's left is something about completely normal people with nothing special about them at all.
They should make a show about Joss. Joss goes to the toilet. Then goes to read about his toilet trip on Whedonesque. Then does junkets where all the questions are about the loo.

In all seriousness, Tamara makes a point about the style of show FX tends to go for. It would probably be a more natural fit for post-BSG joss whedon.
I would love Joss' take on a hyper-realistic show ala The Wire or Freaks and Geeks.
Joss' new show will be called Fandom. It will be the single darkest, most twisted, and unsettling thing he's ever done.
Also the most beautiful.
If Joss' reps arranged the lunch meeting, does that mean he has to pay? Time to mobilize the troops to deliver savory yet nutricous lunchables!
We could organize a picnic for them. Not a "we don't use the word 'panic'" picnic. A real one.

No, not really.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2010-01-17 21:28 ]
"Simon: What's their cancellation rate like? Are they Fox without the o?"

No. The only things they've outright cancelled that I can remember are Dirt (after two seasons of pure crap) and a couple of half-hour comedies that weren't working (Testees and something about a bulimic guy with the dude from Showtime's "Why Am I Still Single?")

In contrast, they've renewed a LOT of shows with low viewership based purely on critical acclaim. Damages struggled to land more than a million viewers for its whole first season, but FX rewarded its quality by giving them a TWO season renewal deal! You don't see that very often. Rescue Me and Nip/Tuck have also been kept around long after both their viewership and critical acclaim have declined past the point of no return.

In short, there is no way a Joss show would be cancelled on FX. They'll keep anything that has either modest critical acclaim or more than a million viewers, and I don't think Whedon has ever made anything that didn't have both.
In short, there is no way a Joss show would be cancelled on FX. They'll keep anything that has either modest critical acclaim or more than a million viewers, and I don't think Whedon has ever made anything that didn't have both.

There's a first time for everything - don't jinks it!
They should make a show about Joss. Joss goes to the toilet. Then goes to read about his toilet trip on Whedonesque. Then does junkets where all the questions are about the loo.

Yes, but Joss would have to be played by Matt Leblanc.
I think Joss should be played by Enver Gjokaj. We need to keep that man in our fandom.
I've only seen Sons of Anarchy from FX's lot, and I love the show but its hard to see Joss' world, even Dollhouse's fitting in there. They are very fantasy, but that might just be what FX wants and if Joss had to go for a cable channel, FX is one of the best bets. More reputable than SyFy but less 'adult' than HBO or Showtime, because of the language and nudity - I honest to God can't imagine watching a Joss Whedon directed sex scene, a la True Blood.

Also, that Cuse reference, is it possible it might be somewhat about Darlton showing the Lost writers Buffy?

And, I thought he wanted to do films? TV always pulls him back in.
Well, according to Landgraf, Joss' people asked for the meeting so I presume he is looking at multiple options, TV being one of them.
One word, execs:

Truffles. Purple Dude loves his truffles.
From what I've seen, FX is made for Joss. FX programming is already well represented by Whedon secret agents, er, um, I mean alumni, and any of his series would have fit in perfectly there.
Peanut Noir, I disagree that Buffy, Angel or Firefly would have fit in on FX. Not at all. They were all way too family friendly for FX. FX is as adult as non-pay cable is allowed to get. It is the HBO of basic cable.

Joss' previous shows would have had to be much darker and much grittier in order to be on FX. I remember reading about how FOX forced Joss to make Firefly much lighter. Maybe his original vision for the show would have worked on FX, but not the show we got.
I remember reading about how FOX forced Joss to make Firefly much lighter.

Not only lighter, but I think less actiony. Way way back I remember it being mentioned that the original idea was for sort of a straighter drama show that happened to be about a bunch of people on a space ship.
Rob Thomas wanted to get Veronica Mars on a cable network, didn't he? Veronica Mars was dark, but it would have been twisted and dark if he achieved that.
Joss' new show will be called Fandom. It will be the single darkest, most twisted, and unsettling thing he's ever done.



b!X wins.
This is a good omen methinks.
I always thought FX would be a good home for a Joss show, as impressed as I was with The Shield and their lack of censorship.
Joss' new show will be called Fandom. It will be the single darkest, most twisted, and unsettling thing he's ever done.


Didn't that get made into a pilot a couple of years back? But I think the pilot didn't get picked up. Been racking my brain to remember what the name of the show was. But it was about murder and a creepy tv fandom.
I refuse to get my hopes up for this. Genuinely.
Hmm, intriguing. My money's on something along the lines of chicken salad but I wouldn't be amazed by anything fairly light, possibly with croutons.
Hey, as long as it keeps Joss on the silverscreen, I'm all smiles. I know, trying not to get my hopes up.
Landgraf should have kept this a secret. Now the fandom will explode with anticipation and if nothing comes out of the lunch, then everyone will go through a phase of depression and mourning.

Speculating: Maybe Joss doesn't want to talk about a new series, but is looking for an outlet for the Dr. Horrible sequel. Didn't he say he wasn't sure where to take it? Maybe he is thinking about taking it there now.

Though I'd really like a new Joss show. I said it since Angel ended and kept saying it while I feared for Dollhouse's life. It would be interesting to see him write something without supernatural/sci-fi/comic-book elements to it, but then again it probably wouldn't feel like a Joss-show and I think he used these elements always so well to tackle philosophical themes, which always intrigued me so much.
The silver screen is film, not television.
Been racking my brain to remember what the name of the show was.

I think our version would have to be called, "Joss Whedon is my Master Now."
I heard a rumour FX was cancelling the lunch? I'm going to eat lunch tomorrow and I think everyone else should, I'll probably get my friends to eat lunch too. That way we can make sure it still happens and know we support it. Maybe start a trending topic about it?
Or maybe we could send lunchboxes to FX.
Nearly a hundred posts about lunch. :)
Well I for one would love to see Joss on FX.
"FX is as adult as non-pay cable is allowed to get. It is the HBO of basic cable."

Rubs hands together gleefully.
If this lunch doesn't pan out, we may have to consider a campaign to send mini-crouton-packets, salt shakers or urinal cakes to the heads of FX.

I knew my supply of urinal cakes would find some use. Stay vigilant.
Possible spoilers: I heard they're going to have the lunch out of order. I think they're talking about swapping the pie's place with that of the salad.
I hope this exec doesn't google joss and find this and think anybody is serious.
Well it's not as if Whedonesque is the number one result on Google for Joss Whedon.
It's serious to me dammit!

/Maybe Joss is just hungry?
//Remember the "Fox option Joss' shopping list" satire from a few years ago?
Wow, this thread is creepy. Hilarious, but creepy ;)
The silverscreen is film, not television.

Is it? See, I'm so deprived. There ought to be a law!
Wait a minute...you guys aren't serious? But I already started buying up urinal cakes and lunch boxes on ebay.
In Mo Ryan's interview with joss a month or two back, didn't he say he had already met with cable people? Meetings happen all the time.
He should make a nice predictable show about cops and lawyers. Preferably one that can have spin-offs in various locales.
SCI: Hellmouth...

See - I've always thought that lunch was the most deadly serious meal of the day. Breakfast being the most silly and dinner being the most ridiculous.

*waves to the FX Execs*
I hope Landgraf and Joss get along really well, because I'll cry if he goes on HBO. Or Showtime. Or Starz. Or anything that's not on my non-digital cable system. :(

Hey, Goners is supposed to be dark! and urban underbelly-ish -- isn't urban underbelly another term for gritty? I think Goners as an FX limited series would be awesome. (Yes, I stole that idea from b!Xy.)
Shouldn't we have a good Buffy pun right about now?
Ugh, and I had grown spoiled by Jane Espenson's more detailed accounts of lunch... Torture, this is!

I just hope they can come together to form cohesive, well-plotted dinner plans. Preferably featuring a character-motivated entree arc.
Well it's not as if Whedonesque is the number one result on Google for Joss Whedon.

That's right, Simon. When I google Joss Whedon (heh), Whedonesque is #2 right after his IMDB page.
I want a train show. You can change setting without really changing setting, so maybe it would be less expensive so long as most of the action took place on the train?
Shouldn't we have a good Buffy pun right about now?
Madhatter | January 18, 00:05 CET


Umm... Joss is planning to attack FX with hummus? I hope they order stakes? Something about the emotional maturity of a blueberry scone? Terrible...
Sunfire he could call it The Core, and it'd be all about Alliance law enforcement trying to shut down Space Pirates, Fugitives, solve murder cases, crack down on Illegal Cattle Trade. Spinoffs to include Border Patrol, Earth that was, and perhaps, Shepherd Book: Rogue Squadron.
That's right, Simon. When I google Joss Whedon (heh), Whedonesque is #2 right after his IMDB page.


But we are top on Google UK. Best of British and all that :p. (Wikipedia - 2nd, then IMDB in third place).
Shouldn't we have a good Buffy pun right about now?
Madhatter | January 18, 00:05 CET


Pun like I hope Joss slays this opportunity? Let's hope FX saves Joss' world, a lot?

Or allegorical warning, like, I really hope Joss doesn't try to explain his concept with fish sticks, because the message of "Buy American" might get lost.
urban underbelly-ish

Wait, possible new term here. cabri, may I add a bit to it?

"Urban underbelly rubbish"

Simon, break out the dictionary. Now, I'm happy.
Been racking my brain to remember what the name of the show was. But it was about murder and a creepy tv fandom.


Simon, I think you're thinking of Cult. It was from Rockne O'Bannon, who created Farscape.
From beneath you... it devours?
They should have brunch instead. I just had southwestern style hashbrowns, a mini omelette with Quorn grounds, black olives, and garlic, and toasted potato bread. I could make a deal with someone over that.
If Joss did a show on FX, I'd be overjoyed. I'm finally working my way through The Shield, and boy, is it awesome. If Joss were allowed to work without the boundaries he normally has, I can only imagine the possibilities.
*drool*

I had leftover Christmas chocolate for lunch. Perhaps that is why I'm so invested in this post- real food is so compelling.
Stop it, b!X, you're making me hungry.
Alright, everyone, to show your support for this un-named, un-approved, un-thought-of-except-in-the-mind-of-the-good-(?)-people-of-whedonesque definitely future hit that is Joss Whedon's new show, change your facebook Status to what you had for brunch today.

If you didn't have brunch, go have some, then change it.
Can I have brunch at 11.37pm?
No, only breakfast.
I think you guys mean brinner, duh.
Wouldn't brinner translate as lunch?
Fun fact: earlier this year, Fox planned to replace Dollhouse in the slot with a show sending up fandom. I don't know what happened to it (Dollhouse season two, probably). They made a pilot.
Is watching the Golden Globes Red Carpet on E! an acceptable substitute for brinner? It's 11:49 now.
Well - just cause you told me to, I'm eating a G pudding. If the USers don't know what that is....IMPORT THEM!
I'm a big fan of good news.
@bubblecat was it one of the ones with the free glass ramekins? They're handy.
Yes, Sparticus, yes they are! It's chocolate AND it comes with gifts!

Also, I now know how to do one of those U thingies! Ah, the things you learn from day to day.
I'm totally unfamiliar with umlaut-ey desserts; heading off to look it up...

ETA: *more drool*

[ edited by GoldDust12 on 2010-01-18 01:08 ]
Cooking with Joss Whedon. The new hit FX show.
I vote the chicken gets it!
Who's hoping for a dark/gritty reboot of something/anything?

Seriously though, even though I know it's early, this makes me very excited.
I just hope that Joss doesn't order Pizza With Gouda: Two.

He's so done that already.
For those concerned about the "cancellation" of "Nip/Tuck" - it's now in its seventh season. I don't think stopping at that point really counts as cancellation for most shows.
You know what's gritty, awesome, and stars Eliza Dushku - That Faith TV series.

Make. It. Happen.

Yes, I'm incredibly bored
I'd much rather have something completely new and original.

Anyway, I'm trying not to get my hopes up.
For those concerned about the "cancellation" of "Nip/Tuck" - it's now in its seventh season. I don't think stopping at that point really counts as cancellation for most shows.

Yes, thank you.
I hope Landgraf and Joss get along really well, because I'll cry if he goes on HBO. Or Showtime. Or Starz. Or anything that's not on my non-digital cable system.


The best shows are on HBO, AMC and Showtime, so don't we want Joss on a network like that? Where his show will be nurtured and the production won't be rushed, and the network cares about artistic integrity? I think he'd be a great fit with AMC, which is currently producing an adaptation of The Walking Dead. They might be open to Joss's style of storytelling.

I'm hoping someday...

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2010-01-18 01:45 ]
Yea, except "New and Original" with Joss seems to always suffer from the same phenomena.

Step 1: Well this isn't as good as *insert previous Joss show here*
Step 2: Well this show is finding its footing but I still like *insert previous Joss show here*
Step 3: Wow this show is really good, but I think they're going to cancel it.
Step 4: Why did they cancel this show?! It was great! I'm going to buy all my friends DVD's when they come out.

Hopefully, full creative control at a cable network might help break that cycle. But it's been like clockwork since Buffy. Probably because expectations start so unbelievably high and that doesn't give a show any time for a preamble. If he does another mythology type show, I'd kind of like to see him go the BSG route and start with a mini-series.

[ edited by azzers on 2010-01-18 01:46 ]
Hot Goda Pizza is definitely not as good as Dollhouse.
BTW, if anyone is looking for extensive details on exotic celebrity dining, Felicia just blogged about this crazy meal she ate at a trendy LA place that uses a lot of fancy food science. Liquid nitrogen, yum.
This is so exciting!
Joss said we will know about his next project when Dollhouse airs its final episode.
New Joss show? YES, PLEASE!

(I realize things haven't gotten anywhere near that far yet. Just let me dream!)
157 comments. I hope there's actually something to this...
You know what? Joss could remake Green Acres (and call it Haunted Green Acres) at FX and I'd watch it. I'm not a stalker, but I'm glad he's not disgustedly flouncing around saying, "I won't talk to another executive at TV studios 'cause I was ROBBED!" Sure, have lunch, find someplace you feel more sympatico and give us more of you on television, Joss, because as talked about elsewhere, you not on television someplace will be a tragedy. I'm talking blood, daggers, Lady Macbeth bemoaning her stained hands, all of that.
Tony J, I think a Joss remake of Green Acres would be awesome.
@TamaraC. I disagree that everyone on FX shows is evil. Pretty true of Damages; everyone in it is working an angle. But the protagonist of Sons of Anarchy (Jax) is as good as his situation as heir presumptive to a warlord allows him to be, and is trying to be better. His doctor girlfriend isn't evil at all.

@electricspacegirl. My favorite FX shows have good acting, writing as good as it gets and interesting premises. They lack nothing HBO has except budgets for sumptuous visuals. Joss likes to create for the widest audience possible, so I think he would prefer basic cable to premium. HBO's record for pulling the plug on good series is worse than FX's.
Let us pray that Joss has a show on FX...AT 10PM.
Yes, 10pm. For grown-ups.
That's where I'd've loved to have seen "Dollhouse".
Then he could have been free to tell the story w/o any of the restraints of prime time censorship.
Good point, janef. Not everyone is evil on FX shows. There are some really great criminals who mean well. My point was some in the fandom have issues with how morally gray Dollhouse is. Whatever Joss would put on FX would be a much darker shade of gray. I would be thrilled. I love that shit and Sons is all kinds of crazy brilliance, just not sure everyone likes that sort of thing.

Another reason why I hope it works out. I love it when Joss pisses people off by veering far far away from their expectations.
Screwing with people's expectations as to content is a time-honored Whedon tradition. Screwing with people's expectations as to quality of that content however...
The problem I had with the darkness of Dollhouse was that it seemed to be presented in a way that I wasn't sure it was supposed to be dark.
I'm speaking of the first bunch of episodes, where it was just the action adventure case solving of the week, with Echo prancing around in sexy costumes. Once we got furthur in, and it was obvious that the Dollhouse was supposed to be appalling, it was a whole new ball game for me. I don't know how much of this was a mis-sell by the network, I mean even as recently as that ridiculous sexy trailer they made, or a deliberate mislead by Joss. But in your face dark, I can deal with.
OT: I just saw Wash!
Xane, since when has Joss done anything "In your face"? Pretty sure he means to come at us sideways...

[ edited by TamaraC on 2010-01-18 04:30 ]
...sidle up and smile.
Hit us where we're weak.



Speaking of screwing with people's expectations...

Xane, since when has Joss done anything "In your face"?

He always has - relative to how Joss works in general.

[ edited by brinderwalt on 2010-01-18 04:46 ]
Huh? Withholding... well, actually anything really at this point but I'll be following this with interest...
Lunch is a casual getting to know you kind of meal, if Joss was spotted having breakfast with the guy it would indicate a much more serious relationship, no?

OT, but Christina's dress at the Golden Globes was so pretty, but I'm not sure I have figured out how to link to a picture of her correctly. http://www.eonline.com/photos/gallery.jsp?galleryUUID=1803#56121

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2010-01-18 15:13 ]
I love this thread.
What is the difference in economics of a show on cable vs. broadcast TV?

My sense (from reading Whedonesque) is that a show on cable can survive with lower ratings, but help me understand the financial basis for this. Why are cable shows less costly to make? (Or are they simply willing to live with lower profit margins?)
So slam-my-boss'-head-into-the-wall-and-threaten-her-kids Tara, and murderer, porn producer and gun-runner Jax are FX's least evil characters? Hee.
SteveP, first off less people are hired and everyone is paid less. A lot less. An episode is shot in less days and budgets can be three quarters to half what they are on big budget network shows or at least what they used to be when there were big budget network shows. So cable networks pay dramatically lower license fees than Networks thogh probably not all that much lower than what FBC was paying for Dollhouse. Cable companies get ad revenue and license fees from satellite and cable companies. The seasons are shorter (so people are all paid even less) and the shows are repeated in heavy rotation.

Does that help?
Thanks TamaraC, that helps a lot.
One of the best things about basic cable shows IMHO is that since the huge over the top production values and crazy special effects tend to be just too expensive, the writing and the acting become the thing. See Mad Men, Burn Notice, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, etc. The writing and story carry the shows. The acting and unique characters make up for the sometimes iffy CGI (Leverage). Joss belongs there.
Possible spoilers: I heard they're going to have the lunch out of order. I think they're talking about swapping the pie's place with that of the salad.


This I can understand: like life, the future of this new series is uncertain. Eat dessert first!
I just gotta say that the thing that I'm looking forward to post-Dollhouse is the Joss directed episode (S1 Ep 19, according to imdb) of GLEE...that's only 6 episodes away (Season 1 Volume 2 of GLEE begins in April!) (Even though it's a FOX show, I freakin' love GLEE.)
I hope it has bats ... No? Darn.
This I can understand: like life, the future of this new series is uncertain. Eat dessert first!

Opening with desert can be good. It's easier to get ratings for your salad if the people already know you're capable of providing good dessert.

However it can also go bad. I remember one Joss lunch that was like 99% dessert, but they served it out of order and forgot to tell people it was dessert. They ended up cancelling the meal before the final dishes were brought out. But later people went to the same restauraunt and wound up loving the meal when it was served properly.

Food can be a very delicate subject.
SteveP, first off less people are hired and everyone is paid less. A lot less. [...]

See, the thing is - while I think Joss is a big boy and can take care of himself where the financials are concerned, I wouldn't want to wish on anyone the reduced financial realities inherent of the cable business; a disconnect destined to increase as the whole broadcast tv market continues to crumble against the onslaught of web delivered content. As aptly pointed out by gossi in a previous thread tv shows are never the product of a single person's creativity but of the entire group (producton team, writers, actors, kraft services, yada yada.) Whedon on cable sans the Whedonverse (how's that for coming at us sideways?) just doesn't sound very promising to me.
To me the future of entertainment lies in the internet; the days of cable are just as numbered as broadcast tv.

ETA: "big boy" as in "financially solvent."

[ edited by brinderwalt on 2010-01-18 08:37 ]
Whedon on cable sans the Whedonverse

I don't even know WTF this means. Isn't whatever he does, however he does it, "the Whedonverse"?
brinderwalt, the best shows on TV are on cable. Sometimes people will put up with a little less money if they get true artistic freedom. Everyone knows that the Internet will eventually be the main medium of distributing content, but content will still need to be created. Quality content with much higher production values than what you can find on the Internet today will have to be produced.

In other words, the Internet is only yet another distribution medium. It is far from the end all and be all of entertainment holy grails.
I have to agree with Tonya J about Joss just not throwing a tantrum and giving up. He's probably chasing every potential lead. Ironically it's the application, resume, interview process of the unemployed that he's mimicking, though he's his own employer, producing entirely independent works like Dr.Horrible....
I loved Sugarshock. I thought the premise was wacky and sure, hip-conventional, enough to show he's got ideas up his sleeve that we can't imagine yet. Don't know what his next concept is gonna be, and I can't wait to find out.
Whedonverse as in, the community of writers, producers, actors, and other miscellaneous production staff Joss Whedon has cobbled together over the years to form his AWESOME production posse.

...the Internet is only yet another distribution medium. It is far from the end all and be all of entertainment holy grails.

That it is - my point was that it's in the process of making specifically broadcast and cable television obsolete.
And my point was that by and large content will continue to be produced by the same studio system no matter how it is distributed. There will be some evolution and some mavericks, but in 30 years there will still be a feature and serialized short form studio system not all that much different than what we have now. That's my prediction. I'm sure a few may disagree.
The Internet is fantastic. Were it a person, I would buy it chocolates and ask it to marry me at least once a week. But it's also not there yet in terms of money for live action content. That will change (also? I want to change it), but it will take time.

Cable is good, in effect, because there is less money involved; people are less crazy when there's less money. (there's a line in Epitaph One aboot that). But, you know, one of the things I like about Joss is how his productions tend to be a little balls out. He's the Jim Cameron of TV; I'm not sure Jim would do a tiny film.
As excited as I am regarding the news that Joss is going to lunch, and don't get me wrong, I genuinely am excited by that news, I can't help but be irked by Landgraf's comment regarding Carlton Cuse. The very first show that Cuse Exec. Produced, before Nash Bridges, was the epically awesome "The Adventures of Brisco County Jr." (before it was canceled by Fox after only one Season *sigh*). The only thing that Cuse needed to learn following Brisco was to avoid any business dealings with Fox. It's disheartening to hear that Landgraf would think or suggest otherwise. My apologies for the mini-rant, but I've always had a soft spot for sci-fi westerns :)

Back on topic, best of luck to Joss at his meeting!
Simon, I think you're thinking of Cult. It was from Rockne O'Bannon, who created Farscape.


Yes that's the one. The premise of it sounded most intriguing. I would have loved to have seen it made.
Risch22, I'm pretty sure Landgraf was just saying that Shawn Ryan had worked for Carlton Cuse. He didn't say that Cuse needed to learn anything from anyone. Are you reading a different quote?
This I can understand: like life, the future of this new series is uncertain. Eat dessert first!

Except the equivalent of dessert in life is, to borrow a phrase*, "rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself".

Happy Monday everyone ! ;)


* cheers John.
Colour me excited
Hmm over an hour until lunch but this thread has surely made me hungry...
No purple prose yet? HE'S HUNCHED OVER HIS LAPTOP POLISHING OFF THE PILOT SCRIPT! HE IS, I TELL YOU!

That's my stance and I'm sticking to it.
Damn, I just finished talking myself out of a snack before bed, and I find this. Whedonesque is an evil place.

Joss and FX, could be made of awesome. Maybe the lunch will be a ritual sacrifice, with pie.

ETA: I really hope we wont be seeing an article somewhere titled "Joss Whedon schedules a lunch, generates nearly 300 comments on whedonesque".

When the lunch actually happens, we could crash the entire internet. Which could result in people thinking we're really obsessive. ;)

[ edited by Shey on 2010-01-18 13:51 ]
Has anyone already committed to stalking Joss, while he is having lunch with Mr. F/X? Because we could sure use as much inside scopp as we could possibly get.
kraft services


Ahh, kraft services; those are the craft services folks who replace everything with macaroni and cheese, yes?

Has anyone already committed to stalking Joss, while he is having lunch with Mr. F/X? Because we could sure use as much inside scopp as we could possibly get.


I've contracted a young go-getter named Victor to assume the guise of a waiter and report back to us.
Ahh, kraft services; those are the craft services folks who replace everything with macaroni and cheese, yes?

Right-aroni!

ETA: 198 comments about a mythical lunch - I'm still not sure exactly what to think about this.

[ edited by brinderwalt on 2010-01-18 16:25 ]
When the lunch actually happens, we could crash the entire internet. Which could result in people thinking we're really obsessive. ;)

Obsessive? Us?? I mean okay, we're blogging about his lunch plans, but we love him and we only stalk him for his own good. Just like he taught us to do through the example of Angel.
ETA: 198 comments about a mythical lunch - I'm still not sure exactly what to think about this.


Boredom? :)
Saje I'm not so sure that's dessert as it is the heartburn following the BDM (big damn meal).
ETA: 198 comments about a mythical lunch - I'm still not sure exactly what to think about this.

On the picket line during the writers strike I was told about a project in the works, but that hadn't been announced yet. Who knows how many posts that would have got had I posted it.
198 for a possible lunch that may or may not possibly result in a possible further meeting that might actually discuss the possibility of maybe actually doing something.

Enjoy your lunch Joss. No pressure....
Oh! I figured it out. We're not stalkers. We're junkies! But at least it's just the informational kind, not drug kind.
Yeah, the sort of addiction we have is like totally healthy, more a pastime really, a mere distraction, we could stop any time we choose. Ahem.

I've contracted a young go-getter named Victor to assume the guise of a waiter and report back to us.

Aha, so Victor survives then ! Innertube rumour mill set to full grind !

And reading between the lines of Joss not immediately posting the details of his impending lunch wherein actual possibilities may possibly be discussed, i'm moving more towards a cheese board with a selection of cold meats. In retrospect croutons were mere speculation which I fully retract.
Ahem, indeed... {{{winky winky}}}
I'm really feeling it for all the poor Moats out there.
I read the first part of this thread[1] during breakfast[2], went out, did stuff, came back, read the second part eating lunch[3] in front of my screen, went away, did some more stuff and having just finished dinner[4], I have now "finished" this thread. I tell you: I'm glad I was either eating or just ate during reading, or else this would've been one of the least healthy[5] threads I ever read on the black ;).

Also: time for dessert![6]

(Also also: Hope Joss works with FX; The Shield is very high on my favorite-shows-evah-list[tm] and it seems like a creative environment. Then again: the guy might just be craving a good salmon sandwich[7])

[1] I always wonder what to call these things on whedonesque. We're not in a newsgroup or on a forum, so 'thread' seems wrong. And calling them 'the comments on this post' or something, seems overly lengthy. Someone help me figure this out!
[2] Cornflakes with milk and sugar
[3] Grilled cheese sandwich with tomatoes
[4] Pasta with pesto, cheese, tomatoes, chicken and broccoli
[5] Not that my food today was very healthy to begin with, but still ;)
[6] Belgian waffles covered in chocolate. Yum.
[7] Having eaten [6] I'm now officially too stuffed to think that's yummy ;)

Lamb Chops. That is all.
Airlock Alpha has posted an article about this epic lunch date as well.
If memory serves (whedonesque ptb correct me if I'm wrong) it is technically a web log. Members post links accordingly, and comments on those posts are - well - comments. So your sentence would be...

I read the first part of the comments on this post before breakfast...
I go with "thread". You can have a comments thread. Same goes for other sites like Slashdot, io9, etc.

I don't think we're being stalkery when this lunch-meeting has been announced by the press (complete with a quote). I take it as a good sign that Joss is evaluating his options, and personally hope that he ends up making something new for cable. (Or more Firefly).

This comments thread is very entertaining.
I'm a little in love with this... comment log? Post's comments? Mmhmm.

Went out for an interview and landed a brand new job (yeah that's right, I'm plugging it because I'm just that stoked :D ), and came back to like 50 new comments on the ol' lunch post. What a lovely world we live in. :)
211 comments. Coincidentally, I often have lunch at 2:11. Must be a sign.
Great; now everyone is contradicting each other in their comments :p
Oh my goodness. We should side-bar this as "Lunch Thread". It's going to be hard letting go of Dollhouse next month, as it is apparent on our excitement over someone's lunch. ;)
I look forward to the new series "Doing Lunch with Joss Whedon."
If this topic reaches 300 posts, I promise to tell you what Joss' next project is!

I don't know what it is, btw.
Well, that's a little unfair, gossi. Not even an appetizer?

That Smoked_Salmon_Sandwich looks fantastic, btw.
It really does, doesn't it? Thankfully I'm still kinda stuffed (and, heading off to bed ;)), otherwise I'd get hungry all over again :).
The first rule of Joss' Next Project is: You do not talk about Joss' Next Project.

The second rule of Joss' Next Project is: You do not talk about Joss' Next Project.

The third rule of Joss' Next Project is: If this is your first thread, you have to comment.
I still think that Joss could cut the budget on his next project immensely by simply having Enver Gjokaj play everybody.
LOL, AnotherFireflyfan. I'd actually watch that, if it turned out we lived in the bizarre world where that happened. Does that make me insane?

ETA: and this turns out to be my 2000th comment, heh ;)

[ edited by GVH on 2010-01-19 03:04 ]
It does make me kinda sad that in Enver's next project, he'll most likely be playing just one character... what a waste! :)
I'd love to see a show where Enver played everybody. Enver Gjokaj's House of Pain or something like that.
Risch22, I'm pretty sure Landgraf was just saying that Shawn Ryan had worked for Carlton Cuse. He didn't say that Cuse needed to learn anything from anyone. Are you reading a different quote?


I already clarified that upthread. It was an awkward statement and easily misunderstood.
I want Enver Gjokaj to play every role in every movie/TV show/high school play for all eternity.

Including the roles of both Joss Whedon and John Landgraf (and the waiter, and the chef, and the other restaurant patrons) in Lunch: the Musical.

Oooh! Like Being John Malkovich! We could all get inside Joss's head!
Uhhh... I guess Risch22 missed your comment the same way I did. Umm... Sorry?

Seemed pretty straightforward to me.
Those are called one man shows, and they are popular (because so very cheap to produce) in live theater. I would definitely tune in to a TV show with Enver playing everybody, whether a one-off or a series with a concept. Somebody write a script. Seriously.
Hmm...Faith the Vampire Slayer perhaps?
It's just lunch people. Now if someone would please help me into this man sized shrub disguise which will allow me to walk about a certain restaurant unnoticed...
(I saw it in a musical recently.)
I dunno if it'd work as well indoors.

ETA: and this turns out to be my 2000th comment, heh ;)

Better yet GVH, the one after was 2001. Like, a web odyssey or something ;).
A world made up of just Enver Gjokaj... and shrimp for lunch.
Hrm, back to that one show Gossi brought up some time ago about Fox coming up with a show that might have been parodying the notion of fandom. Was it the American version of Spaced? I forget how long ago that was proposed

Since funnily enough, I was under the impression that part of the reason they didn't go forward with it was since Edgar Wright, Simon Pegg, Nick Frost et al (I'm assuming Jessica Hynes too) including the fans all got terribly pissed off about it. There were misleading statements that the cast/crew of the original somehow approved of it or were even aware it was happening before the press release. I still don't know if that ever got as far as filming the pilot though since I do have quite the morbid curiosity about how it turned out.

And it's a little straying from the topic but I think United States of Tara would be even funnier if they suddenly just replaced Toni Collette with Enver with no explanation. I still get the impression people would buy him in each role, even as the mother to two teenage kids.
As mentioned upthread by evilhandissues, it was called 'Cult', written by Rockne 'Farscape' O'Bannon. To me 'Spaced' wasn't a parody of fandom in any way shape or form BTW, it was a comedic portrayal of 20 somethings, some of whom were fans (rather than A fandom), all of whom were pretty steeped in aspects of sci-fi/pop culture i.e. the broader usage of "geek" as we see it today. To me and most of my friends it was the first show we'd seen that really felt like it was for and about us.

Still glad the US remake died on its arse though, that had misguided written all over it.
Damn you GVH, now I want a midnight snack for the second night in a row. And last night after reading this thread, I ate the last of the peanut butter.
The pic of that salmon sandwich was just cruel. ;)
'Cult' wasn't the Fox thing. Nor was it Spaced. I've forgotten what was called, actually.
Ah so there was a Fox thing as well ? Fair enough, I sit enwrongened.
Heh, Shey :). That's me, creating unhealthy urges for all to, ehm, have. Or something :).

And Saje, dude, stop sitting so enwrongened. You'll end up hurting yourself.
Too late, think I may have twisted ... something.
The man moistens his eyeballs and we're having a meeting about it.

That's the quote that comes straight to mind :) Now something about Joss' swimsuit calendar.
Joss could continue to explore the themes of self he touched on in Dollhouse by doing a show about a race of clones. Who happen to look like Enver. But each is imprinted with a different personality (as in Dollhouse). There, the perfect premise. (Although I suppose the split-screening effects would need to be pretty insane).

Are we there yet? (Not exactly sure where we are going, but this thread must be leading up to something... right? How many posts can we write about lunch?)
AnotherFireflyFan, Getting Nick and Kelly in on the action might slash some budgets in half.
Heh, Shey :). That's me, creating unhealthy urges for all to, ehm, have. Or something :).

I prefer man-cravings.

It sure feels like we're building to something, eh AnotherFireflyfan? We should give away a pack of skittles to the person who can correctly guess what they discuss at the *lunch*.

Ooooh, that would be so cool! Like ESPN or something!
Inspired by GVH, I checked my profile...

and found out that THIS is my 2600th comment! Woot! And apologies to everyone who had to read them! ;)
Getting Nick and Kelly in on the action might slash [...]


Read this sentence wrong the first time. Much 'ew' ensued.

Congrats on your 2600th there, korkster!
Can I just throw some kerosene on this already out-of-control rumour bonfire, by asking one question:

Is there any significance to the fact that Adam Baldwin twittered a bunch of Jayne quotes in the past 24 hours?

(interspersed amongst his usual political comments, of course)
After all this time I'm game for a Whedon/Cuse Brisco County, Jr. second season... and maybe Lord Bowler will spring for lunch....
I've also checked and this is my 48th comment, i've been here since 07. Rabid I am.
Take it easy there eth3er, leave some words for the rest of us y'know ?

(ah, so many palindromes and binary numbers still ahead of you. Halcyon days ...)


[ edited by Ella78 on 2010-01-27 19:25 ]

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