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November 08 2003

Vincent speaks. A summery of an Angel magazine interview with Vincent Kartheiser.

"To tell you honestly, this is the best group of people Iíve ever worked with. Iím saying Ďpeopleí Ė as artists, theyíre very accomplished and as people their set was so was so pleasant and I had so much fun, I really made some good friends there. It was nice for me to have that stability in life. Iím really going to miss that, and Iím really going to miss some of the opportunities that it gave me too, to stretch and to try some things."

Here's an extra Vincent link with lots of pictures.

I know I'm probably just about the only person that ever actually liked Connor (or at least the stories that could be told with him), but I sure do miss him. And VK seems very personable and intelligent.

Curse me if you will, but I'm hoping he gets to come back a time or two this year.
I liked Connor. I liked Dawn. For the most part, I think people just don't like change. But I guess I can sort of understand why people didn't like Connor. You really weren't supposed to like him. That can be a pretty thankless task for any actor. He certainly wasn't the Wesley Crusher of the Buffyverse, though.

[ edited by unreality on 2003-11-08 20:48 ]
I thought he was the just about best thing about Season 4, really enjoyed V's performance.
I liked him too. And I hope he'll come back.
Aw, man. That just reminded me of how much I've been missing Connor this season. Usually I only miss him on Wednesday nights.

It's nice to see that VK knows his character so well and sees some of the same things a lot of us do as far as untapped potential for more storylines with Connor go (as far as working out his Angel- and anger-issues and such). I think Connor was easily the most messed up character in the Buffyverse, and one of the most tragic.

"So I turned off all the lights in my apartment, I got stark naked and I crawled on my hands and knees killing imaginary demons."

Heh, I love it when actors use method-acting, no matter how crazy it might make them sound to some people. I'm sure a lot of you remember ASH mentioning in an interview that when he was preparing for a scene in which Giles was supposed to look very beat up (I think the tied-to-a-chair scene in "Becoming part 2"), he went outside and rolled in the dirt and...something about smelling moth balls to give him a good "pained face". Yeah, huge respect to actors who really physically prepare for a role.
I think there still is a lot of potential left in the Connor storyline and he mentioned being asked to come back for several episodes. I know his character wasn't meant to be liked but I always felt sad for Connor and felt that he was lonely and never quite fit in. I always wanted to see some closure between he and Angel. I also think that wouldn't it be a hoot if Buffy and Dawn showed up in a couple of years to introduce Angel to Dawn's fiancee and it turns out to be Connor. What a pair those two would make and who knows what their children would be like, Dawn being a key and made from Buffy and Connor the child of vampires.
Count me in as someone who liked Connor, in the sense of thinking that the stories (or some of them anyway) that they told with the character were interesting and good.

Found Vincent to be refreshingly straighforward in both his praise and criticism of his role on Angel. That was a pretty good interview.
I was also a Connor fan, and a Dawn fan. But even I could not get behind the idea of Kennedy...and I tried, I tried so hard.
I liked Dawn too - and hope that if Buffy shows up for an episode or two that she has Dawn with her. As for Kennedy, well, I tried to like her in the beginning but she just totally got on my nerves and I couldn't buy into Willow falling for her and it made me miss Tara even more.
While I often found myself annoyed with both Connor and Dawn, I grew to appreciate what they brought to the stories. And in that appreciation, the annoyance seemed to turn to understanding of that character's emotions and actions. I wouldn't go as far as to say either became my favorite character, but I certainly wouldn't have demanded they be removed from the show.

Now... Kennedy... blwessels, you said it perfectly. I couldn't buy into the idea of Willow falling for her, either. I actually think she's a fine actress and played the part well, but those two characters just didn't seem to work. And it doesn't help that her character was often cocky - therefore, annoying.
Willow didn't so much fall in love with Kennedy as she appreciated being courted. Kennedy was definitely the suitor in their relationship, and at that point of time Willow definitely needed someone to care for her. Kennedy didn't replace Tara at all. Not at all. If you watch the relationship between Willow and Tara closely, it was usually Willow who was the strong one and Tara was less dominant. After Tara's passing, and Willow's subsequent fall from grace, she really needed someone to just wrap her up in a blanket and tell her everything was going to be alright and that was Kennedy's role in Willow's life. She was exactly what Willow needed for that time, so she could recharge her batteries and then help save the world by the seventh season's end.

I wouldn't necessarily want to think that Kennedy and Willow would end up together indefinitely. They're not really that compatible, but the served one another's emotional needs in a trying and stressful time. Willow felt wanted, desirable, pseudo-normal, and Kennedy felt heroic and valiant. They fit one another's empty spaces for a time, but ultimately are just ships passing in the night, because their journeys are not mutual. They each will stand solidly and separately on their own without needing someone else to fulfill them or complete them.

I like to think Joss Whedon's reason to bring in Kennedy was not to replace Tara, but to say that sometimes terrible things happen but life does go on. It just never quite goes on the way you wanted it to go. That's not a bad thing. It's not necessarily always a good thing, but it's life. Kennedy was expertly performed, and though the writers could have crafted her better, I think she's a welcome addition to the final season. I would like to see more of her.

Connor was also expertly portrayed, but the writers just inordinantly sucked all kinds of ways in trying to portray the son of Angel. They couldn't decide whether to make him an enemy or a friend or both or just a troubled youngster. Making him grow up so fast was a terrible idea, for one thing. Having Holtz screw the kid up was a cheap shot. It would have been more daring and believable to keep the kid around, and just watch Angel screw him up himself. However, the writers chickened out and went the easier way. And if you don't think aging a child character overnight is easy, think of the alternative: hiring a child to play the part of a kid who was born of vampires and may either save the world or destroy it. Buffy season one's "The Annointed One" was bad enough. Imagine writing for Connor in his terrible twos. The writers wrote themselves into a corner and Holtz raising Connor in a hell dimension was deceptively easier than the alternative.

Likewise for Dawn. Michelle Trachtenberg gave a wonderful performance throughout her three years with the series, and should be commended. The writers presented her well some of the time, but other times they just relegated the character to the whiny kid sister routine, either for laughs or for melodrama, which led to many people being upset with her. Again, the writers put themselves into a corner. In season five, Dawn was the football. The Scoobies were in possession, but Glory wanted the football so she could make her touchdown. So long as Dawn was a prize to fight over, she was in the middle of things and was getting attention and kids crave attention. In season six though, she suddenly wasn't a football anymore. She was just a normal kid, and the writers usually completely dismissed the fact that deep down Dawnie was nothing more than green glowing energy ball that had been mystically enhanced to appear to people as a normal human girl. So what do the writers do? Dawn craves attention and isn't getting any in season six, so the older characters take turns babysitting her, do a terrible job, and whenever no one is looking, Dawn turns to kleptomania. Now that was original. Not. By season seven the character got some balls though, and learned her place in the BuffyVerse even if sometimes it meant shutting up and reading research books. Throughout the three years, Trachtenberg had excellent timing, and found the humor in the role. She was thoroughly entertaining and thought provoking. I still say Dawn is my favorite character. Any faults I find are in the writers, not the performance and not the character. I only wish Whedon had thought further ahead and had Dawnie in the picture from season one onward, so that when the revelation occurred in season five that she was just a green magic ball, it would have been even more powerful. If they did the animated version, or if an attempt is ever made twenty years from now to retell Buffy in film or tv form, Dawn should appear in the heartbeat that Buffy becomes The Slayer, and Buffy should automatically assume at that moment that Dawn's always been around. Then Dawn's a part of Buffy's real life for five years, and when Glory shows up the series of revelations that take place would have held even greater weight and emotional impact. Provided one didn't know it was coming. Oh, and then Dawn could get to wear high heels. *smirk*
heh, as soon as this page loaded i knew that zachsmind is certainly back...welcome back
When Connor (called the Destroyer, at that point, right?) popped through that portal with a half-smile and said, "Hi, Dad," before attacking the A-Team, was when I fully plugged into the show.

I started watching regularly instead of haphazardly after my best friend told me about Darla staking herself to save the baby, but that episode was the moment. The reason I bought into Connor from the beginning was because he reminded me of the best parts of a young Marvel superhero. He wasn't unequivocally good, but he was still a hero, and I loved seeing similarities between he and his father.

I'm not as good as ZachsMind at getting everything out in one fell swoop -- I write better in response to responses (does that make sense?)

I agree with those who are looking forward to his possible return this year -- I just like the idea of Connor with not quite the amount of baggage that he had to carry and still being a hero, and perhaps trying to have a relationship with his (super?)natural father.
I think I have mentioned before that Cordelia could be a conduit for getting Connor back in the story...her coma pre-dates W&H's mindwashing of Connor from everybody's (except Angel's) memories...if she revives, couldn't it make sense that she would have vivid (too vivid, maybe!) memories of him? And wouldn't that be an interesting plot development?

Dunno, just sayin'...
I like Vincent as an actor and thought that Connor had potential as a character, but I just didn't like what they did with him. VK is right, the inconsistency in his actions based on who was writing that week made it hard to relate to him. Plus his relationship with Cordelia was just too icky to live with - again, not his fault.

I think they could still do some cool things with the character, I hope they bring him back.
I also think that Mutant Enemy did a major misservice to Dawn's character by making her two whiny. I loved her character from the beginning but the temper tantrums really got on my nerves and were overdone. Her reaction to finding out she was "a ball of energy" made sense for her to freak out but then they had her just reverting to that reaction to everything. I'm glad they stopped doing that for the final season and I would've loved to have had Dawn's story finished - my family always thought that Dawn was going to turn out to be a major player somehow because of what she really was. We kept waiting for it to happen and it never did. I hope if there is a movie someday that this is addressed.
As for Willow and Kennedy, I like Zachsmind's idea of what the relationship was but that's not how it felt to me. It felt to me that Kennedy was pushy and possessive of Willow and wanted more from Willow and that Willow gave in. Remember all that talk about "I'll be your kite string". That was not the talk of a casual relationship. I wouldn't of minded it if that is how it was potrayed and that they both acted like they were a couple but not a serious one or if Willow had discussed with Kennedy that although she's enjoying being with her, it's not love like it was with Tara. Joss has been quoted as saying that he originally was not going to pair Willow up with anyone and that they had wanted Amber Benson to come back as the First and have Willow dealing with her feelings all season but Amber Benson didn't want to do that because it wasn't going to really be Tara.
And just some more about Dawn. I really wanted to see more of Dawn and Buffy bonding the final season. They started off the season well with the two of them but then the SITs showed up and Dawn was just forgotten. I feel they dropped the ball on the possibilities to do stuff with Dawn's character. Dawn was made from Buffy and their should've been some indication of that and not necessarily automatically making her a possible future slayer. They could've had them have some sort of psychic link, where as Dawn was also having the dreams that Buffy was having. They had some great Buffy and Dawn moments but I wish there had been more. My favorites are when Buffy sacrifices herself in the gift and all we were seeing was their facial expressions and Dawn's wonderful expression as Buffy turns and jumps to her death, Dawn climbing into bed with the Buffybot and snuggling close to it, desperately trying to find comfort for her grief over the death of her sister, and Dawn realizing Buffy is alive and knowing where she is and finding her on the tower. And the final really good one was when Dawn is waiting for Buffy after Buffy and Xander's plan to take her to safety doesn't work. I loved that small, brief interaction where Dawn gently kicks Buffy and calls her "dumb ass". I also felt it was touching in Chosen when Dawn is desperately watching out the bus window for a glimpse of Buffy and the look on her face when she realizes Buffy made it.
Zachsmind, I loved your idea of having had Dawn on the show from the beginning! That would've been an amazing stunning revelation! Too bad they hadn't thought of that themselves!
I too always liked Dawn, but felt that the writers "mismanaged" the story potential for that character, just as they did (to a lesser extent) with Connor. And I thought that it would have been great if Dawn had gained something by being made from Buffy while Buffy "lost" something. The prophetic dreams would have been great... it would have given Dawn a continuing purpose aside from whining or being the one that always needed rescuing. And there would be potential (GOD I hate that word now) angst and/or relief on Buffy's part for no longer being the one tapped into the visions.

Of course that idea was used in Fray, but it would have worked great in the Buffy/Dawn story.
haunt i absolutly agree with you...i think that's the only reason i'll continue reading future fray issues.

i also agree w/ brother_grady, the moment conner came back was so powerful, it simply hooked you to watch the rest of the show. i hope the writers eventually use his character more/better than dawn in btvs S6-7
Well unless Joss ultimately decides to dust off the Fray franchise for another go (which he very well could) there won't BE any future Fray issues. The series FINALLY wrapped up a couple of months ago.

If it does come back it will be with a different art team. I'm friends with the inker on the original series and he's said that any future incarnations will almost certainly use a different art team.
haunt if i'm not mistaken joss is penning a few more issues according to the editor in fray #8 (or was it 7?)

and i hope they stick w/ the same artists, because their work was just sooo fluid, for the lack of a better word. truly beautiful to look at, compared to say the tales of the vampires' preview, the art work was really horrible to the extent of distracting the reader, if that makes sense.
I haven't yet read the Fray series so I was unaware of that idea being used in it when I thought of it but I have recently ordered the complete series and am now looking forward even more to getting them.

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