Buffyfest interviews Scott Allie about Twilight - BtVS

Edited to make it even more obvious it's about Twilight just to be on the safe and descriptive side.

So about the "secret history" background images! Is that a bat and a mosquito?

Sunfire | March 03, 03:27 CET

"secret Story"??? Giles! why now? he's always keeping something to himself, like the slayer book...I can't wait to read what's all about, that bat and the ¿mosquito? wow.

Sla | March 03, 03:33 CET

"what matters most to the character of Twilight?"... "Buffy". So that explains the killing and attempted lobotomy and stuff... iz confused.

edited to comply with spoiler concerns

[ edited by baxter on 2010-03-03 10:56 ]

baxter | March 03, 03:33 CET

I am so excited about this comic! And on a totally random note, really excited to see Spike's supposed return, and I hope that's soon, like maybe sometime around #36....or sooner..... Hmm, that preview page is strange and interesting, can't wait to see what that's all about.

KaileeA42 | March 03, 03:45 CET

That secret history has me really intrigued.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2010-03-03 04:31 ]

Buffyfantic | March 03, 04:31 CET

Hey baxter can you edit your comment to say Twilight? Just to keep this thread free of the spoiler.

That secret history has me really intrigued.

Me too, especially that art. Vampires started as bat demons? Or inhabited bats first?

Sunfire | March 03, 04:48 CET

Me too, especially that art. Vampires started as bat demons? Or inhabited bats first?

The bat thing makes me think of the Underworld films.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2010-03-03 05:01 ]

Buffyfantic | March 03, 04:57 CET

Very odd preview page. I'm all kinds of curious what that's about.

I liked this interview. Allie has a pretty good handle on the character of Angel, something I wasn't altogether sure of before.

Still though, I didn't care much for his last answer, if only because I feel the character has grown and evolved beyond that and I dislike seeing him defined by his feelings for Buffy, much the same as he was in S1 of Btvs. *shrugs*

Whatever.

menomegirl | March 03, 05:21 CET

I love this whole interview. Has me even more excited about the big reveal tomorrow. And I loved, loved, LOVED his last answer, with regard to what Joss believes is most important to Angel. *heart*

And the idea that there is a "secret history between vampires and slayers" also has me HUGELY intrigued. Gah.

[ edited by lmblack21 on 2010-03-03 05:32 ]

lmblack21 | March 03, 05:29 CET

I have to agree about the "Secret history" thing. Wowzers. I have a great feeling about the "finale" of this season.

You know, the Giles thing takes me back to "A Long Way Home," where Giles meets with those dinosaur looking demons. I still don't understand why he was on speaking terms with them. Can anyone help explain that scene?

5X5B | March 03, 06:10 CET

First time post (was going to wait until the end of the season until I had formed an opinion on the season as a whole.)
I'm excited by the coming issue and by a lot of the stuff that has happened this season. but I think this season has lacked some pacing. For three years there has been vague mention of Twilight, he has met Buffy once and even then we didnt know what his plan was (apart from ending magic and the slayers if that is Twilight's goal) it could have helped to drop a few more hints as to his agenda earlier in the season to keep it fresh. In season 7 we knew that The First wanted to end the Slayer line about halfway through the season, I just hope that with the pacing of the last 7 issues that it doesnt leave a lot of questions unanswered.
But yes I cannont wait for this reveal and what it means to Buffy.

warmdeliciouscookieme | March 03, 06:28 CET

Nice interview.

Have to say I'm also really intrigued by that secret history of vampires/slayers, and that preview page is mighty interesting. Looks like we may be really shaking up the mythology here, which I for one am very excited about.

vampmogs | March 03, 06:57 CET

Yeah but how much can it really be changed? How vampires came to be was established in Welcome to the Hellmouth/The Harvest and the Slayer was created by the Shadowmen. Dracula was the only vampire who could shape-shift into animals like bats and wolves until the comics.

I'm trying to imagine what the hell mosquitoes have to do with anything? Unless suddenly we're gonna be told that vampirism is spread by them like West Nile or Yellow Fever and a long time ago, a girl was bitten by one and voila! A slayer was born...okay that doesn't even make sense to me.

God I hate ret-cons.

menomegirl | March 03, 08:06 CET

""Giles explains the secret history of vampires and slayers."

Apparently they don't get on that well.

Simon | March 03, 08:29 CET

Simon...it's the truth about cats and dogs. (Seriously, I've thought about writing a little mini-essay on the comparison between Slayers/cats and vampires/dogs. There's something there.)

BAFfler | March 03, 08:40 CET

but aren't slayers more alike with dogs, and vampires with cats?

Sla | March 03, 08:45 CET

Well, you know, Twilight could have just called Buffy up to talk and share his concerns. That's what a real person would do and certainly a past lover ought to do. Not much story there, to be sure, but more realistic.

Dana5140 | March 03, 08:51 CET

Dana: I can answer your question, but it will require revealing a major spoiler. I won't invisotext it, though, and the moderators can do what they will. So there.

I am Twilight. And my phone was out that week. Plus my neighbors and I don't get along, so I couldn't go use their phones. So I kinda had to start without the phone call, and then things just snowballed from there. Sorry about that. If it's any consolation to you, or to Buffy for that matter, I feel really bad.

:::hangs head:::

BAFfler | March 03, 09:12 CET

Excellent interview, but I'm with Menomegirl and her comment re: Angel and being defined by his feelings for Buffy, cos honestly, and I may be in the minority, but I was over all that way back in Season 4. Other than that, loved the interview, and really looking forward to seeing how everything pans out. And I am still on tenterhooks to see how they'll introduce Spike back into the mix. Whether it'll be as part of the Twilight storyline or something new. This secret history of vampires and slayers could be awesome, or could be pointless. Only time will tell!

shazzam | March 03, 09:50 CET

I wouldn't mind finding out about the ~~macguffin~~ secret organisation of women that appeared at the tail end of season 7.

Simon | March 03, 10:01 CET

Well, Buffy did tell Angel to phone next time, in "The Yoko Factor," but it didn't seem to take.

Twilight did go to Buffy to talk, anyway. He just got distracted by uncontrollable rage and almost threw a church at her. I've had conversations with my exes that went a bit like that....

(Joke!)

WilliamTheB | March 03, 10:04 CET

Good interview, but it's getting a bit tiresome on how he/she always tries to bring it back to bangel.

About Twilight,i disagree with Scott's opinion about Angel, Angel had for the last 5 years grown into his own character that wasn't defined by Buffy in anyway. It was only with the reappearing of Spike that a competition grew between them. But that was more about Spike and Angel themselves then about Buffy.
I really hope that they won't go like the POTC ending, the aweful character Will Turner(Angel) got everything he wanted in the end, the girl, the destiny, his father. While Jack Sparrow(Spike) ended up being a good man with a rowing boat and a map.

About the slayers and vampires origin. Well we sorta have three clashing theories.

Giles tells Buffy in season 1 that before the last old one left this dimension it fed of a human thereby creating the first vampire. Vampires were such a plague that the shadowmen created a slayer to fight them.

The old guardian in season7 says that the scythe was used to kill the last pure demon(old one) in this dimension.

Illyria states in season 5 that half-breeds like Spike and Angel were already running around during her time of rule which clashes with the first story we got from Giles. It could be that she was talking about ubervamps.

Vergil | March 03, 10:12 CET

Hate to be nitpicky but the interviewer didn't ask Allie what he thinks is most important to you-know-who, they asked what Joss thinks.

Obviously I'd rather hear Joss speak for himself, but either Allie is lying (very doubtful), Joss flat out said that, or that's the impression Joss has given him during their collaboration on this comic. Allie never said that was his opinion. The only reason I'm pointing this out is because it wouldn't be entirely accurate/fair to hold Allie to these comments as if the interviewer asked for his opinion and not the opinion of someone else.

Oh, and how do we spoilertag stuff? Every time I try to do it, it doesn't work? I'd love to discuss more about some of his comments but can't really do it in a way that doesn't make it obvious who Twilight is.

[ edited by vampmogs on 2010-03-03 11:15 ]

vampmogs | March 03, 10:46 CET

Whatever, if what we get is a tiresome rehash of S2 angsty twu-wuv, given the obvious evolution of both characters, that will definitely suck.

baxter | March 03, 11:04 CET

Vergil I'm with you on that one. I wish that interviewer would can it with the agenda pushing. It's becoming real old now.

And oh dear lord, you'd think the way Allie talks AtS had never happened. Personally I think that although Buffy will always be important to him, she's not the be all and end all of his life anymore. AtS was testament to that. But then maybe he's never actually watched that series all the way through?

Also, a 'secret history'. God that already smacks of 'here comes retcon land' If they're not careful.

[ edited by sueworld2003 on 2010-03-03 12:41 ]

sueworld2003 | March 03, 12:34 CET

Allie has a habit of saying things that upset people. How closely his thoughts represent Joss', and how closely Joss' thoughts affect the story at hand, will become clear soon enough (not necessarily in the reveal, but undoubtedly by the time #40 comes out). Cold comfort, I know. I'm not going to get worked up about it.

As far as the "secret history" thing: we'll see. Whedon said something about Meltzer really wanting to get into the mythology. I'm thinking it's not going to be a retcon so much as an extrapolation of what we already know. Or maybe it'll be a retcon and the show's already-fragile mythology will be destroyed. Here's hoping for not that one! :)

WilliamTheB | March 03, 12:51 CET

I think we're starting to move into the realm of criticising the individual rather than what he or she says. So if it persists I'll be nixing the relevant comments or worse. As I really can't bothered with it all.

Simon | March 03, 12:53 CET

Cold comfort, I know. I'm not going to get worked up about it.

You're quite right I suppose. Also at the end of the day it is only a comic after all. *g*

sueworld2003 | March 03, 13:06 CET

Ehm...I'm kinda excited about the so-dubbed retcon..as vergil(great name!!) based on a respelling of a classical writer?) mentioned about the constant change in timeline of existences...i kinda want a definitive one...kinda now!! Also..I liked the interview...and admittedly there are aspects of AtS that I'd rather forget too...and BtVS s4 & 6...but hey this guy wouldn't be high on the list of in charge if he was in someway more disposed to certain aspects in a way that could harm the continuity..and this whole non spoiler thing is really hard...can't wait til the next issue is coming out so we can speak freely!!

BlueSkies | March 03, 14:33 CET

Hi all,
Long term lurker, first time poster. Twilight's secret ID is my favourite Buffyverse character and kinda the reason I got into Joss' work in the first place, so add me to the 'concerned but excited' list.

Like Vergil, I'm not sure that Buffy is Angel's primary motor anymore. But Allie's comments could mean that in Joss' eyes, the important thing when writing Angel is how it relates to Buffy's story i.e. that the guiding factor in determining what happens to Angel is the impact on her.

Vergil, I'm also interested in your POTC comparison, particulary the word 'awful'. Would you care to expand?

Alex_Jamieson | March 03, 14:52 CET

I guess I'm intrigued by this notion that Giles has information regarding a secret relationship between vampires and slayers. But if I think about this idea at any length, I don't like it. How could this possibly be information that doesn't invalidate whole chunks of the tv show? I'm sure there is a way that this could be revealed to enhance the canon. I just have my doubts. Guess I'll see soon enough.

peepstone | March 03, 15:37 CET

but aren't slayers more alike with dogs, and vampires with cats?

I prefer equating Slayers with cats and vampires with dogs. Slayers are solitary hunters, vampires often run in packs.

Hellmouthguy | March 03, 16:00 CET

I think these last two arc's are going to be epic. I don't cared too much about retconned mythology if what is being replaced is a cool new concept that adds something to the mix. Buffy's mythology is kinda wacky anyway. Remember the whole 'sire' debacle?

My hope for the aftermath:
Personally I wish that by the end of this season and into S9 the only main characters left are the four original Scoobies. Start completely fresh and bring new supporting characters into the fold. I'm not a 'shipper of anything so I've really enjoyed S8's lack of en-souled vampires for the most part, but to me so many other characters feel out of place here. Faith should have her own series, Andrew should die/go back to Italy (is he actually friends with anyone?) and Dawn should be allowed to go to school/ find her own path in life.

It ain't gonna go down like that of course, but whatever.

[ edited by Kaan on 2010-03-03 16:11 ]

Kaan | March 03, 16:02 CET

I like that Joss and I are on the same page about Angel.

Meanwhile, all the love for Angel Season 5 makes me cringe. That was my least favourite season. Cordy was only in one episode!

Riker | March 03, 16:05 CET

Gotta say I loved season 5 of AtS, including the much hated 'The Girl in Question'. :)

I loved the whole Wolfram and Hart storyline. I wonder If Joss will touch on any of that in this?

sueworld2003 | March 03, 16:41 CET

Some references to Damages and Shells would go down a treat.

Simon | March 03, 16:43 CET

I LOVED Season 5 of ATS too, my favorite season. Which is a little weird considering Cordy is my favorite Angel character, IMO her absense was it's biggest flaw. But I loved the great miz of humor and sadness and depth and the new energy that characters like Spike, Illyria, and Harmony brought. It contains most of my favorite episodes of the whole run including 'The Girl in Question' which is probably in my top 10 Angel episodes EVER. I just LOVE it, I don't think I quite understand all the hate, it's really underserved IMO, it's a very funny episode and nice to see so close to the depressing( yet fantastic) finale.

KaileeA42 | March 03, 16:46 CET

I'm pretty sure the mosquito is only so prominent since it's about to get eaten by the bat ala food chain style. Or at least I imagine.

As for the interview... I appreciate how candid he is but I just don't necessarily get or agree with some of the stuff he says. (And this is aside from the romance stuff which I don't particularly mind either way.) Like by default Angel had to branch out to beyond just Buffy on his own show and they even ret-conned how significant she was in turning his life around. (Like rather than him implicitly eating rats in sewers for the 200 or however many years he had a soul he hung out with the Rat Pack.) Now that I think about it, Connor ended up being sort of the biggest living deal in Angel's life.

Also it's weird he suddenly became less interested in Angel as a character for taking up Wolfram and Hart when part of the appeal he sees of Angel stems from him being a more morally fuzzy character.

Then this is something that's just slipped my mind by now, but were Buffy/Angel really the first star-crossed paranormal lovers either now or in recent history? For some reason I just took that for granted as pretty obvious concept.

orangewaxlion | March 03, 17:32 CET

Well If memory serves me well the likes of Forever Knight and Dark Shadows got there first.

Maybe he's not heard of those shows.

sueworld2003 | March 03, 17:38 CET

Personally (and this is just Tara from Buffyfest talking) S.5 is not my fave season. I found it very interesting that it was Allie's favorite as I always do when I hear that answer. It's a fine season, I guess. Spike in the mix is a fun time and there are some offbeat eps. I just resent the lack of Cordy and the whole W&H thing makes so little sense to me.

As far as Michelle "leading" questions in this interview, I often find it laughable when we get responses like that. Michelle had a great idea to interview Allie just about Angel's character as we hadn't seen that before. Of course being accused of Bangel-ism would come with that territory...but Michelle is easily the most neutral, careful writer of all of us at Buffyfest, so it's weird. All she did was the original intent: ask questions about Angel. I guess it makes some feel better about a storyline that goes in a direction they don't fancy, though. Shoot the messenger, all that.

Especially for Allie who I'm sure is very used to the hateration.

buffyfest | March 04, 02:02 CET

Tara from Buffyfest your tone is really not helping things. If you can't respond to posters here without it getting personal then take it to email or something.

Sunfire | March 04, 03:08 CET

March 03 2010