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"To coin a popular Sunnydale phrase, 'duh'!"
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March 16 2010

(SPOILER) 5 page preview of Angel #31 which is out tomorrow. First look at David Messina's cover for this issue.

Anyone else having trouble reading the dialogue?
Yes. It's just ever so slightly out of focus.
Yeah, same with me. Having trouble reading it too
Okay. The Oedipus Complex dialog (nice call-back to Soulless--"There should be a play.") and the stuff about Connor being attracted to not-so-attractive, non-human females and Angel's older women cast-offs pretty much saved the Illyria arc here. LMAO.

I'm still laughing at the Oedipus thing. And I can imagine Angel being bound up like a mummy and being perturbed. Something strikes me funny about Illyria just sitting on him and asking him embarrassing things.

Yeah, it's blurry, but I was able to read it.
Yes,it's hard to read the previews although I can make out a good chunk of it.Looks good.
Does anyone know when Brian Lynch's Spike series will start? I love how he writes these characters and I miss it.
Release date now is summer 2010.
NileQT87, I must've missed the line (or it was too blurry) about Connor being attracted to not-so-attractive, non-human females. Which ones ? Cordelia was part-demon/Higher Being, so I guess she was no longer human, but what other women has Connor been attracted to that weren't human ? Does Gwen qualify ? She wasn't a demon...we don't know what she was (it was kinda X-Men/mutant/metahuman-ish. The woman with the telekinesis--Season 2, I think, "Untouched"?--was maybe in the same vein as whatever magical or freak evolutionary Buffyverse phenomenon that resulted in Gwen). Did Connor end up with Nina too after "After the Fall" ?

The older woman comments that I could make out are all spot-on though (maybe Gwen wasn't much older than him, but I forget if we ever got a date stamp on those flashbacks of hers).
Meh. I decided to drop the Angel book after last months issue. Nothing in the preview is convincing me to pick it up again.
Wonder if Messina referenced Wentworth Miller for his cover... Eddie bears more than a passing resemblance to the actor on Messina's cover.
I'm really not sure if Willingham is right for this title. My experience of his writing on Fables (which I generally like) and what I've seen so far on Angel suggests that he can do interesting plots, but his style doesn't feel right for this book, particularly his dialogue.

His Angel issues so far have DEFINITELY been missing the nuance, emotional counter-pointing and wit of a successful Whedonverse script, something Brian Lynch so ably grasped.
Wenxina- that's who I have been thinking of for Eddie since the start:)
I think they should rename the book '!Angel' since he's never really there.
Connor said that maggoty-faced Jasmine was beautiful. ;) Remember that? And he made a comment about growing up in Quor'toth. There was also the Illyria moment. It wasn't just Cordy. Though Cordy, Gwen and Fred (kinda) do all count in the Angel's cast-offs category. Heaven forbid Connor finally meet Buffy.

And Gwen (going to school in 1984) is older than Cordelia (born May 22, 1981). If you add in the years that Connor spent in Quar'toth and his new memories, he basically was faux-born in 1985. He's a year older than Dawn. Well, many years older than Dawn, counting that he actually lived his childhood and she didn't. But Connor is only 4 years younger than the Scoobies.

It's also good to note that Vincent Kartheiser and David Boreanaz are only 10 years apart. And both played younger than they were even at that time. VK is only 2 years younger than SMG and is a year older than Eliza Dushku.

From an in-universe perspective, Connor becomes as old as his dad looks in 2011. The gap is already smaller with their 2004 selves (7 years) than it is between the actors (10 years). I've always wanted to see this play out like the "Father" story in Tales of the Vampires.

[ edited by NileQT87 on 2010-03-17 02:43 ]
Not-so-attractive non-humans? I rather thought he was attracted to them because they were attractive. Which ones were supposed to be unattractive? Gwen was all human and gorgeous, Cordy was part-demon/part-human dropdead gorgeous, and Illyria is essentially Amy Acker in a skintight leather suit and blue face paint. Am I miss the not-so-attractiveness of the ladies in question?

And Jasmine doesn't count. I don't think Connor was physically (sexually or otherwise) attracted to the former-PTB reborn as his daughter.
This here with the non-humanoid demons was a reference to the Jasmine comment, not any of the humans or humanoids that he had crushes on.

It's very obvious which comment Willingham was referring to with the demon broads (the Jasmine one, where Connor tells that he doesn't have a standard human sense of beauty due to the time that he spent in Quar'toth).

And um, "Oedipus, Oedipus..." Like Oedipus and Jocasta, Connor didn't remember Cordy being like a step-mother figure (actually, she used the word "aunt"); Holtz only ever knew about and told him about Darla. Connor's sense of who is available tends to squick quite often and he has a radically different concept of beauty. One must remember that, as far as we know, he never saw a human female before he was 17; all he had was a father figure in Holtz. And one could view any of Angel's cast-offs as potential mother figures (not just Cordy). But fact is, Connor is too old to be dating toddlers (for all intents and purposes, he wasn't born in November 2001 anymore) and he is actually in the age range of many of the non-kid characters on the show.

The only other person like him that was born in the 21st century and isn't a child is Dawn. Except he actually fully lived a whole childhood. But they did both have alternate lives given to them as memories.

Connor is interesting because despite the new memories that were supposed to fix these effects of his Quar'toth upbringing, the real Connor still snuck through Vail's spell regarding his understandings of beauty and potential mates.

[ edited by NileQT87 on 2010-03-17 10:58 ]
Nah, I don't buy that. We've seen him attracted to Cordelia, Kate, Gwen, and Illyria. The first three are knockouts and the fourth is going to come across as very weird but still hot (leather suit?). Jasmine by far doesn't count; I think anyone interpreting his comment on her beauty as physical attraction is severely misinterpreting the situation.

And honestly, when Willingham can't even keep proper Buffyverse mythology consistent, I doubt he'd even remember that line. Much less build a proper working reference to it.

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