Maybe that's what Adelle told her.

Simon | March 17, 00:17 CET

Could be. She recoiled from Topher for the same reason Claire did, he made her.

But that was in one of the very last episodes, after the cancelation decision. So why put that in, and then drop it?

zz9 | March 17, 00:24 CET

Oh my god!! I totally didn't notice that when going through the props...who is this 'Ivy"? and why did he send her away and hope that she didn't turn out like him...but maybe that's gonna help us realise what happened to her after the 'thoughtpocalypse'?

BlueSkies | March 17, 00:33 CET

Wow. We're still getting bombshells like this dropped on us after the show was cancelled!? Lol. Maybe there was some confusion over what exactly it is and they mislabeled it on eBay? If you zoom in, it clearly says Ivy, where if it were a doll's file it would probably say the doll's name, right? I think I also read something about "clearance", suggesting it could be just a file that the Dollhouse kept on one of their employees. But, on the left it has little charts one of which can be made out to say "heart rate". I don't think even the Dollhouse would keep that kind of info on their employees.

This Is Eric | March 17, 00:35 CET

Wait! Ben is Glory?

zz9 | March 17, 00:43 CET

It would make certain things (like Topher sending her off to save herself) more interesting. But then, I feel like a lot of her interactions with Topher wouldn't make sense then...

AND, why would they suspect her of being the spy, if they created her? (Unless she was MADE into a doll at some point during the show, but, er.)

Harbek | March 17, 00:48 CET

If she's a Doll, Dominic didn't know. And as This Is Eric points out the labeling would be way too sloppy. I'm hoping it's a mislabeling of a regular old medical file.

Sunfire | March 17, 00:49 CET

Agreed, eBay error. Topher and Ivy's exchange in 2x07 wouldn't make sense either. Why would he slight her in favor of a Sierra imprint when he could just use Ivy?

ETA: That would have been a pretty great thing for Adelle to tell her. Oh well.

[ edited by GoldDust12 on 2010-03-17 01:17 ]

FruityOatySaladbar | March 17, 01:08 CET

HMM.

I think I'll just assume the position of rocking in the corner with my eyes closed and ears covered whilst repeating: "It's not canon unless Joss says so!"

:P

sunshineguinn | March 17, 01:14 CET

The photographs of the file don't say Doll or Active, but they do say "Ivy" (no surname) and have "Reviewers Initials: CS". Claire Saunders? They do appear to be medical files.

Could Ivy be from another House, with a different name scheme, like plants? Maybe Topher didn't know she was an Active? She was MIA when we saw how everyone was affected by drugs....

zz9 | March 17, 01:16 CET

Also, weren't all the dolls given military alphabet names? I think "I" is "India" and not "Ivy." I'm leaning toward ebay error also. I do this it's plausible that the dollhouse would maintain extensive medical files on non-doll employees, so perhaps that's the case here.

eyes of the world | March 17, 01:16 CET

Maybe it was a prop used by Ivy, rather than a file about Ivy?

In the Latin | March 17, 01:21 CET

So basically either the people selling it made a mistake, or Joss pulled a total "Dumbledore is Gay" on us.

DetectiveYelsew | March 17, 01:27 CET

Also interesting in this auction - Fran Kranz tweeted about the bracelet he was wearing, didn't he? I believe he said it was a sort of mantra for Topher. It appears to be in this lot - a silver bracelet that says, "Kill Your Idols." Guess I should go back and check twitter.

eyes of the world | March 17, 01:36 CET

...a silver bracelet that says, "Kill Your Idols."

Ugh, that sounds Topherous. Interesting though, I want it now.

FruityOatySaladbar | March 17, 01:41 CET

Here are two older tweets from Fran Kranz about the bracelet:

"it has special meaning to him. It says something of a mantra for him. Until things go bad and his feelings change." -and-
"maybe mantra is the wrong word? Topher is an atheist. Its a maxim. A motto. A phrase he likes to live by but not in the end"

eyes of the world | March 17, 01:44 CET

How very cool; Fran is such a smarty pants. Thanks for saving me the trouble of digging on twitter- how old are those?

FruityOatySaladbar | March 17, 01:57 CET

I think they were about mid-November or so? Roughly.

eyes of the world | March 17, 02:03 CET

Only LA Dollhouse used the military alphabet AFAIK. DC used greek gods. So another house using plant names or something wouldn't be implausable.
Though you'd expect an Active called Ivy to be given a name if she was active, they diidn't call Whiskey "Dr Whiskey".

zz9 | March 17, 02:36 CET

If this turns out to be true, I'll brag about noticing back in December 2009. See my comment during the discussion of episodes 9 and 10.

She was young, beautiful, super smart and for reason she couldn't even understand herself, was accepting tasks waaay lower than her capabilities.

Somehow she was nowhere to be found exactly during episode "Echoes" (1x07), when we could have seen her reaction to the psychotropic drug.

And again in episode "The Public Eye" (2x05) when Topher demonstrates its disruptor on Kilo, Ivy is somewhere else.

What I was thinking back in December is that Ivy was put there to keep Topher psychologically stable.

Lino | March 17, 02:37 CET

Fanfic fodder.

Pointy | March 17, 03:17 CET

Is someone making a note of this to ask Joss about in an interview?

Rekidk | March 17, 03:26 CET

oooh,I want Topher's bracelet! anyone has $80 to spare?
And I'm sorry,I think it's just an ebay error about Ivy.

okelay | March 17, 03:27 CET

It is odd that the folder looks exactly the same as the others though. You'd think they'd use a different coding scheme for staff files.

hacksaway | March 17, 05:06 CET

My theory is it's just a mislabeling of that file they had to determine who was the spy in the house of love. (They didn't give Ivy a last name at any point though? Hrm.)

While I know they obviously had to leave some threads hanging but I was surprised I ended up caring as much about some of the secondary characters. While I really did end up enjoying where Bennett ended up (pre that particular scene) it was a bit of a bummer that she got such a nice wrap up even in Epitaph 2 but there were characters who'd been around for more episodes and even earlier in the series but we didn't get to quite resolve their mysteries.

And incidentally I love that selection of four paintings since they seem to encapsulate the characters and/or mood of the series so well. Plus that keycard one is sort of hilarious, particularly since we're made aware afterward the dollhouse even keeps their fingerpainting on file so their plans should have been doomed from the start if the dollhouse really were trying.

Keeping the paintings actually reminds me of that book "Never Let Me Go" which Joss and Tahmoh reference as a quasi-Dollhouse inspiration.

[ edited by orangewaxlion on 2010-03-17 05:14 ]

orangewaxlion | March 17, 05:11 CET

I'm actually rather amazed at the amount of nice clothing Saunders had under her labcoat.

Arison | March 17, 05:18 CET

I always thought she told Ivy about the man Priya killed and Topher's part in it.



Wouldn't be the only thing that didn't make sense in Dollhouse. ;)

Kaan | March 17, 05:53 CET

O.O'

I really hope it is a mislabeling issue, or something. If it isn't... wow. Would have been a neat story to see. I always wondered what Adelle told Ivy... Hmm. Also, love Fran's bracelet. I take it they used that as a inspiration for his line in Epitaph 2.

Fred_Sonja | March 17, 07:27 CET

If you look closely at the Sierra and November files pictures, there is a place on the paper that says "status: Active." Ivy's does not have that. So I think it is an ebay mistake.
(Yes, this made me so curious that I investigated the files as best I could from the photographs. I know...I have no life)

mossome | March 17, 08:44 CET

I don't want Ivy to be an active, unless the twist/planned story was cool enough to justify it. There were one too many twists on established characters in those last couple episodes (sleeper programming in Saunders/Whiskey, Boyd being the head of Rossum), don't need to add Ivy to the not-really-themselves pile.

Comic-Con questions:

Was there a story planned/in mind for Whiskey backstory, and if so, what was it/who was she ?

More about Ivy ? Did she by chance survive the mass wiping/Butcher imprinting ? Even if she didn't, even if she's dead in 2019/2020, Topher sending her off to save herself still carries weight. 5 to 10 more years of life is better than dying in Tuscon in a ridiculously stupid/poorly constructed scene (sorry, Mellie/Madeline).

More on Boyd, maybe ? Could sorta/did sorta figure that one out for ourselves in the episode thread. Short of getting a life history on the guy, there's not much I really wanna know about him anymore, more than two months after his last episode aired. For personal history/character motivation, I'm way more interested in Adelle.

What happened to Dominic ? He was shoved back into The Attic, then from the flashback-memory in "Epitaph 1", we know he somehow gets out again and is threatening Adelle in her office (presumably during the time they're hiding out in the LA Dollhouse/at war with Rossum and maybe others/just as the shit's really hitting the fan), so I'm curious to know what happened after that. I'm guessing it didn't end well for him, he didn't seem poised to possibly escape all the horror like maybe Ivy did.

What might Seasons 3 to 5 have looked like/involved ?

[ edited by Kris on 2010-03-17 17:47 ]

Kris | March 17, 17:47 CET

Regarding the bracelet and Fran's tweets, consider Topher's line when he returns to the sleeping chamber in Epitaph Two:

"Kill your idols, that's a piece of truth."

CrazyKidBen | March 17, 18:22 CET

Also Kris another clarification to ask, the stuff about Claire being a sleeper. Ages ago Gossi said he had gotten more info from Tim Minear about it and was looking for the OK to tell us. Never heard of it again. I either want it explained or a sincere "Okay, that part made no sense" from Joss.
[ETA: Changed neer to never]

[ edited by DeezyG on 2010-03-26 21:02 ]

DeezyG | March 18, 00:29 CET

I thought I'd read awhile ago that Eliza liked to keep her director chair backs.

liljemsey | March 18, 00:56 CET

From what I can tell, there are two director chair backs for each cast member - one per season.

I have the Season 1 Tahmoh Penikett chair back and a Season 2 Writer chair back.

The Season 1 chair backs have the names in the center and the show name as simply "DOLLHOUSE" with no graphics on the reverse. The Season 2 chair backs have the names on the right hand side and Dollhouse pod logo on the reverse.

The Eliza chair back in this round of auctions is from Season 1, so maybe she's kept the Season 2 one?

JenskiJen | March 18, 01:44 CET

Thanks for the info :D

liljemsey | March 19, 05:55 CET

And not that anyone is still listening, but Kris another Comic-Con question (althought not Dollhouse related) is if there's any truth to the Morgan Spurlock documentary rumor. E! Are pretty big and haven't retracted it, and neither Joss nor Spurlock had commented on it (although they havn't been asked and might not be aware of it.)

DeezyG | March 19, 21:07 CET

I love how they spelled Bennett's name wrong on her scholarship papers. That upsets me. She deserves better!

Tarth | March 20, 14:05 CET

True, DeezyG, another good question.

I keep checking some threads a few days after they fall off the main page, as I know others also do this and I don't wanna miss out on replies or continuing worthwhile discussions (I'll even continue to check a week after, sometimes, if we were having a good discussion).

Kris | March 21, 23:34 CET

Uhm, Thanks I think :] Lol. Ifind a good way to do this is to go to my profile and see my recent comments, although I don't comment as much as other peope. Only when I have a real opinion, plus I'm currently catching up on Buffy/Angelverse so I avoid that just to not get insanely spoiled.

DeezyG | March 26, 21:04 CET