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April 02 2010

(SPOILER) Newsarama is LIVE at the Dark Horse panel at WonderCon 2010. Still on-going right now. Mentions of the Wash one-shot, the Book graphic novel, Zack Whedon's Terminator series, and of course the requisite Buffy Season 8 news. Some spoilers about S8, regarding some fan favorites. I think that covers all the expected Whedon-ish stuff, but there may be more in a bit. As I said, it's live.

Hmm, it doesn't seem to work on my comp, =( If anyone can tell me the S8 info in the comments that would be great!
Turning to—spoiler alert!—the revelation that Angel is Twilight in Buffy season 8, Atkins promised that there's a lot more story to tell following that development. "If you're an Angel/Buffy fan, there's a big payoff," Atkins says.

"For those of you who are Spike fans, you might be a little disappointed by the end of the last issue," Atkins says. "But you'll blush either way."

"If there's anyone who knows how to end a season it's Joss Whedon," Atkins says, talking about the upcoming Joss-penned final arc of the Buffy season 8 comic.

Okay,was what was said,what I think it was?
I don't know, I can't read your mind. (But I did try).
Do you know what he means by the 'last issue'? Does he mean the last issue as in #33 that just came out? The last issue of the arc? Or the last issue if the whole season? As a Spike fan if he doesn't mean #33 I am worried.......

Thanks so much for the info gossi!!!
I have this feeling of deja vu. Haven't we had this season 8 conversation before?
Buffyfanatic, what was said!? I must know....I hate when the internet is dumb and things won't work.....
I don't know, I can't read your mind. (But I did try).
gossi | April 02, 23:15 CET


Did he just give major hints about how the season ends?


Do you know what he means by the 'last issue'? Does he mean the last issue as in #33 that just came out? The last issue of the arc? Or the last issue if the whole season?


That's what I was confused about and meant by did he just give major hints about how the season ends?

Buffyfanatic, what was said!? I must know....I hate when the internet is dumb and things won't work.....
KaileeA42 | April 02, 23:18 CET


What gossi posted

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2010-04-02 23:23 ]
Yeah, I'm soo confused by that. Logically the end of #33 could make sense, since maybe we'd feel bad for Spike even though he isn't there and maybe people could blush at the kissage...but I don't know if that QUITE fits.

Could the end of the Season be something similar to that only with Spike there this time?....I sure hope not....
We might get Dollhouse comics?
Please don't let whipped Spike come back... please don't let whipped Spike come back...

Angel: Season 5 saved his character. Don't revert.

Also, what I'm hoping for: Spike to be in on it with Angel. Can you imagine the fanboy outrage?
I don't actually particularly want any Dollhouse comics. I'd prefer that Joss focused more on the Buffyverse and Dr. Horrible 2 and any other ides brewing in his mind than on Dollhouse. I enjoyed the show, but the idea of comics for it doesn't really excite me.
Could the universe be answering my prayers? Will we really get a Dollhouse comic? I hope I hope I hope I hope I hope.
Gah. Seriously can I have now please??? I am loving all this stuff coming out about the comics.

How explicit can they get in a comic that it would make folks blush? I am intrigued and am once again flashing back to Jeanty's Q&A and how he talked about having to draw certain body parts....hmmm....

I too am confused about whether they are talking about the whole comic series ending or if the only thing said about the end was that Joss Whedon knows how to end a series...

But for now I don't care, just happily riding this joy wave.
"For those of you who are Spike fans, you might be a little disappointed by the end of the last issue," Atkins says. "But you'll blush either way."

I take it as the last issue of the whole thing. Spike fans will be disappointed by the story of Season 8. Well, you can't say we haven't been warned. What a bummer. At this point, I wish I'd never heard of season 8.

[ edited by Xane on 2010-04-03 02:46 ]
Just in case, I thought I'd repost a statement by Allie from his most recent Q&A with SlayAlive, in regards to whether there was any "hope" for Buffy/Spike fans.
If your hope is that Joss comes out and says that Buffy and Spike are the key relationship, that Spike is more important to Buffy than Angel, then probably you'll be disappointed, because I don't think Joss writes in those terms. If on the other hand all you want is that the relationship between Buffy and Spike gets treated with respect, then yes, there is hope.

Has David Boreanaz made reference to his character's status as the Big Bad (potentially? Maybe not for-sure, just yet?) of Buffy Season 8 ? I know Buffy/Angel is in his past, but since he makes reference to them occasionally in interviews...has anyone told him about the Season 8 comics at a convention or anything ? It's sometimes fun/amusing to see the actors' reactions to what's happening to their characters beyond what they got to act out.

Season 8 hasn't done anything to/about Spike yet, little early to write the whole thing off (even more premature when conjecturing based on what a Dark Horse exec who's not involved in the creative process makes a comment). You're not lacking for Spike, he's over in the IDW Angel comics.

[ edited by Kris on 2010-04-03 03:08 ]
Personally I wish the Bufyverse had never been turned into these very silly, and some might say poorly written comics, so Xane I'm with you on this one.
I take it as the last issue of the whole thing. Spike fans will be disappointed by the story of Season 8. Well, you can't say we haven't been warned. What a bummer. At this point, I wish I'd never heard of season 8.


Apologies, but this attitude strikes me as very silly. So Spike as a character is more important than the story as a whole? Whether Season 8 is worthwhile or not is sort of moot; this line screams that regardless of S8's quality, if Spike got the short stick, you'd hate it.

That's a very unfortunate position to take.

[ edited by The Dark Shape on 2010-04-03 05:50 ]
And why is that then? I imagine that many fans have favorite characters in the verse, so whats the problem? Imo there's no 'unfortunate' about it.
It says straight out, Spike fans will be disappointed. I am a Spike fan, therefore I will be disappointed. I don't like it when my entertainment disappoints me. Especially the Buffyverse, which has been very important to me over the last 10 years. It sucks.
It was being written in regards to the relationship so, all things considered, this isn't disappointing for Spike fans but Spuffy shippers if anything. That said, if the only reason you're invested in the comics is because of a character that hasn't even shown up in them as of yet....isn't that dissonant on some level?
Taking one sentence, which isn't even backed with any context, and saying "This sucks. I hate it" doesn't work. At all.
Five seasons in, Buffy's sister is there... Well, that's stupid and we shouldn't have waited for the explanation and context right?
Wenxina, a follow-up to that question was also asked on wether Buffy/Angel will be made to be more important then other relationships including Spike/Buffy and the answer was no.

I agree with Xane, seems a weird kind of PR, the whole point of PR is to increase sales. Not reduce them by telling one of your biggest factions that they'll be dissapointed in the end.
Buffy/Angel get a big pay-off and the Spike(/Buffy fans don't even get a mention) fans will get dissapointment.

On the other hand i do appreciate a warning in advance. I'll check out the remaining issues as they come out, but as i've said before i'm not interested in a story where the bad guy gets everything that he wants and this seems to be heading in that direction.
I think that the guy was referring to the end of issue 33( ie the last issue). I don't think they would be giving away secrets for the final issue, which Joss hasn't actually written yet, this soon. I think he's made the assumption that all Spike fans are Spuffy Fans.
And why is that then? I imagine that many fans have favorite characters in the verse, so whats the problem? Imo there's no 'unfortunate' about it.


Because it means the fans are putting the character above the story. Then, of course, they start harassing the writers, saying they don't "get it" -- even though, clearly, the writers have a much better sense of the big picture, whereas the fan can't see past his or her favorite character. It's short-sighted and completely unfair to everyone involved with the storytelling process.
@Vergil: I think the point made was that Joss isn't the type to write stories where one relationship is prized over another in terms of importance. It's undeniable that both Angel and Spike have been extremely important to Buffy. That was the point Scott was trying to makes, and the point I was trying to convey above.
Yes Wenxina, i agree that was Scott's point. But that doesn't change that while Joss isn't writing his story that way, his staff does seem to approach it from that angle. Scott's words of Buffy mattering the most to Angel, they are meant to be, accusing Spike of being Buffy's rapist while goldenboy Angel is perfect. Jeanty's words that it was always about them, comparing them to the past epic love stories(which i think are horrible.), calling Angel her home while Spike is the lame-o cabin in the woods. And now this PR Atkins saying Angel/Buffy will get the big pay-off, Spike fans will get dissapointment and they will blush whatever that means.

And the reason why Idw Spike comics aren't the same is because Idw never had a pro-Spike/Buffy writer. We've heard from them all, from the editors to the writers and none of them are interested in Spike/Buffy. I can understand not being able to touch upon Buffy's feelings. But nothing was stopping them from exploring Spike's feelings. Scott's recent words of Buffy being everything to Angel only really applies to Spike. Spike didn't have a son to raise and love, Spike didn't have a grand destiny of doom. The last we saw of Spike(season5), Buffy was his world and nothing that has transpired in the idw comics should have changed that.
If "payoff" includes a baby - mystical or otherwise - I'll have a hard time taking the story seriously in any way, shape or form. I mean seriously, Breaking Dawn was the worst book ever written and it would do nothing to silence the already loud jeers of comparison between the two sagas. What other "payoff" could there be? Suggestions? Ideas? please! . . . and did I mention that I *hated* Breaking Dawn with a passion?
The last we saw of Spike(season5), Buffy was his world and nothing that has transpired in the idw comics should have changed that.


You mean the Buffy that he stayed away from, simply because he didn't think he could top his Chosen exit?

I'm all for a mystical baby if Spike falls in love with Buffy and Angel's infant child.
Because it means the fans are putting the character above the story. Then, of course, they start harassing the writers, saying they don't "get it" -- even though, clearly, the writers have a much better sense of the big picture, whereas the fan can't see past his or her favorite character. It's short-sighted and completely unfair to everyone involved with the storytelling process.


Well then The Dark Shape It's lucky for me then that apart from the whole 'Spike thing', I've found the comics so far too be very badly paced and fairly poorly written.

And don' get me started on how badly IDW is currently doing with the AtS comics...

[ edited by sueworld2003 on 2010-04-03 09:50 ]
And that's fair enough. If they don't work for you, they don't work. My only issue is with people forming an entire opinion based on a single character who, thus far, hasn't shown up. And this goes the same way for Buffy/Angel people if they're not in a great place at the end of #40.

I gave up on Angel after Aftermath.
"You mean the Buffy that he stayed away from, simply because he didn't think he could top his Chosen exit?"


No, it's been pretty well established that Spike was staying away because of his feelings of insecurity. Which fits with him not believing her in season 7. We hear it again in the final part of season 5.

SPIKE: It's over. Just like that. Not that I thought I had a chance anyway


SPIKE: Look! I know I don't have a shot with her, all right? Probably never did, but I still care about her, and I'm not gonna let her end up with a jerk like The Immortal. Or you.

I don't understand this type of PR. Saying that Spike's fans will not like it is like suggesting them "don't read it/don't buy it"

As for the blushing part, my guess is that Twangel will do a striptease dance to unfasten those three belts or due to massive glowing we'll have blank pages with repeated text "sonic boom"
I don't understand this type of PR. Saying that Spike's fans will not like it is like suggesting them "don't read it/don't buy it"


Ah, but evidently DH don't need money from us whinny old Spike fans, and in any case we're not the target audience here.

Also as for "blushing" at the next issue, well seeing Jeanty's seeming inability to draw a normal human with adult proportions properly, well then I'll wager I'll have nothing to fear. *g*
No, it's been pretty well established that Spike was staying away because of his feelings of insecurity. Which fits with him not believing her in season 7. We hear it again in the final part of season 5.


But here's what I have to ask -- have you ever considered that the writers are speaking through the character? If Spike doesn't think he has a chance against Angel, maybe the fans should stop being so vehement about it.

I got to say vehement!
How do we know he hasn't a chance? Are you privy to the inner working of Whedon's mind or something?

[ edited by sueworld2003 on 2010-04-03 11:20 ]
He hasn't a chance because he (Spike) says he hasn't a chance?
But the story ain't over till the fat Slayer sings? *g*

To be honest I don't think either vampire is going to stand any long term chance with Buffy. If Joss doesn't twist this whole Twilight crap somehow, well then as I said before he's not a great a writer then I thought he was.
But here's what I have to ask -- have you ever considered that the writers are speaking through the character? If Spike doesn't think he has a chance against Angel, maybe the fans should stop being so vehement about it.


I don't think so no, in the same way that Angel makes a parody of Buffy/Angel by stating that theirs was a forever kind of love. Angel and Buffy have proved that they can live without eachother. I do think the writers were speaking through the character but not in the way that you think. It's never simply the literal meaning. And when viewed everything we know about Spike and his journey, insecurities are very much a part of soulled Spike. We have plenty examples of this throughout season 7 and 5, season 7 having the most. We also know that Buffy did mean it but that doesn't change that Spike doesn't know.

Spike is also staying away because he was under the false idea that Buffy is living the happy normal life she always wanted to, except it's all fake. The Buffy in Rome was a decoy, real Buffy is under a huge amount of pressure and so far is having no succes in any parts of her life. Work,love,slaying,ect.
@sueworld2003: I thought you already DON'T think that Joss is a good writer. I mean, you've made your disdain of the various aspects of S8 clear. Just a few posts up, you called the comics "very badly paced and fairly poorly written".
So I don't think Joss has anything to prove to you anymore. You've made up your mind about the kind of writer he is. *g*
I think this is becoming more about individual posters than the topic. If we could get back to the panel news that would be super.
wenxina I've dislike season 8 pretty much from the get go, but as the 'series' went on in my heart I hoped that something would turn up to peak my interest, to show that for me Whedon still had 'the right stuff' when it came to writing for this verse again. But sadly I'm yet to see anything that comes across as anything as intelligent or well written as the parent show.

Sorry. :)
Spike's penis is in the next ish, the internet will go wild. (Lie).
Well considering the artwork so far, will we even recognize what it was even If we saw it? *g*

[ edited by sueworld2003 on 2010-04-03 15:15 ]
Recognizing it as Spike's would require a previous look at it. Sadly, that's never happened. :)
Recognizing it as genitalia... well then, there's the internet...

[ edited by wenxina on 2010-04-03 15:23 ]
Pfffft. Nothing can defeat the penis!
The bottom line is, Spike fans will be disappointed. It's official. Flat out. And I actually do appreciate the warning. I don't really know how we will be disappointed, what that means, but it certainly is better to know now, than to wade through the Bangel sexfest first.

[ edited by Xane on 2010-04-03 15:56 ]
Here's a more detailed Dark Horse Panel Report from CBR that clears up things.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=25540

WC10: Dark Horse Panel

Dark Horse's Randy Stradley and Jeremy Atkins discussed the publisher's upcoming projects Friday at WonderCon, including multiple doses of "Serenity," "Predators," and "Star Wars," as well as the Buffy Season 8" finale and more.

Switching over to “Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 8,” Atkins asked, mock-sheepishly, “So how many people want to throw something at me for the whole Angel-Twilight reveal?” He assured “Buffy” fans, however, that Twilight’s identity is a small part of what’s to come. “There’s still a lot more to find out about why [Angel]’s Twilight and what’s happening.” Atkins also teased that the next issue contains a huge payoff for fans of the Buffy-Angel romance. “For those of you who are Spike fans, you might be a little disappointed in the outcome of the next issue.”

Joss Whedon will be back to write the final arc of “Season 8,” which closes later this year. “There are big surprises coming for that,” said Atkins. “As you know, if anyone knows how to end a season, it’s Joss Whedon.”



So it's next issue that he's talking about.The one out on Wed.
This Atkins guy is the one responsible for revealing Twilight identity in January?

[ edited by anca on 2010-04-03 18:54 ]
Then at least Spike fans won't have to wait long for that disappointing look at his penis ;-)
Then at least Spike fans won't have to wait long for that disappointing look at his penis ;-)


It would only be disappointing If a certain artist draws it. *g*
Ok, we get it, people have issues with Jeanty's art. Isn't that beating a dead horse by now? Not to backseat moderate but it's crossing from critique to personal at this point. I'm not a fan of his art either; I much prefer Moline's work on the series but we don't need to bash on it every six seconds.
Meanwhile, nice to have some clarity that the disappointment is only for the next issue rather than the season. Takes the wind out of the sails of this thread.
This Atkins guy is the stupid d#$% that revealed Twilight identity in January?

It would only be disappointing If a certain artist draws it. *g*


Since my earlier warning apparently wasn't strong enough, I'll be more blunt: no more of this. If you have something constructively critical to say, it's all good, but snide comments such as these directed at particular people are very unwelcome here.
Georges is one of the nicest people I've met. I had a rather odd way of meeting him (on the dance floor with some of the Dollhouse cast in the UK) and one of the Dollhouse mob tried to explain to him why I was there. To be honest, there was no good explanation, and somebody blurted out "He's our biggest fan". Georges didn't back away. Instead we just danced. I'll tell you, when somebody says you're their biggest fan you want to back away and fall off a cliff, so all credit to Georges for rolling with it.

What I'm trying to say is that some people have a real hate on for Scott, Georges and Joss. They're actually stand up people who are just trying to service their story.
Outside of a lazy panel here or there due to time limits, I'm quite happy with Georges' art. Sue me.

And I'm of the opinion that if I don't like a book, I drop it. None of this "Joss isn't as good of a writer as I thought he was" stuff.

And I'm of the opinion that if I don't like a book, I drop it. None of this "Joss isn't as good of a writer as I thought he was" stuff.


But I've gone this far down the road, and we're not that far off from the end. Also I have to admit that for me reading season 8 is a bit like watching a car crash in slow motion. Awful, but somehow you just can't seem to take your eyes off it.

Also, you never know, Joss may pull it all around at the last knockings.

But then I know I'm in the minority to view it this way and that going by here most readers are positively ecstatic about the whole thing. :)

[ edited by sueworld2003 on 2010-04-03 21:37 ]
Taking one sentence, which isn't even backed with any context, and saying "This sucks. I hate it" doesn't work. At all.


I don't mean this to sound combative, so apologies in advance if it does. But people can dislike things for any reason they want. Maybe it doesn't work for you, but does it have to? Their dislikes don't have to match yours. I'm not a Spike person, but if I was, and I was reading these season eight comics in which he has been ignored thus far, and on top of that one of the creators mentioned that as a Spike fan I was about to be disappointed, well...I would dislike that.
And I'm of the opinion that if I don't like a book, I drop it.


I'm of the same opinion. But, you know, it's hard...I haven't liked anything Buffy since early season seven, and season six had big problems too as far as I'm concerned, yet I kept watching. I don't at all like the odd out of character directions these comics are going in either, yet I keep reading (well, I flip through them in the store.) It's hard to let go of characters you care about, even if you think they're being terribly mistreated (which I most certainly do). None of the core Buffyverse characters with the single exception of Faith is what I would call "undamaged" by the latter seasons and now the comics, yet I'm always holding out hope. I care about these characters. I guess that's what it means to be a fan.
Well, the good folks at Buffyfest talked to Scott Allie, and cleared up a couple of things. Check it out HERE. Basically, as I mentioned elsewhere, the S9 announcement is pretty stale news; Scott's mentioned/confirmed it several times in the SlayAlive Q&As now, as well as the most recent official word on the matter at ECCC 2010. However, contrary to the statements made by that other guy (according to various reports), Scott says that
...no specific creative decisions have been made about the length or style of Buffy Season 9, nor has an artist been finalized. Georges has said publicly he'd like to be involved somehow, but it doesn't sound like he'll be the main artist.

Finally, regarding the Dollhouse comic announcement, Dark Horse mentioned Dollhouse a while back, but has taken that announcement back repeatedly over the last five months. There is nothing new to report about it at this time.


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