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Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
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April 15 2010

Joss Whedon to rework the Captain America script? Pajiba seems to think it's a possibility. As we found out two days ago, Joss will be reportedly rewriting The Avengers script as well as directing.

Wow. I'm still afraid to get too excited about all this. I'm waiting for final confirmation on all of this before I let myself accept that dreams actually might come true!

I was never a fan of Captain America until Ed Brubaker took over the writing a few years ago, but I LOVE his take on the character. I hope the movie will take its cues from his writing, especially the Winter Soldier arc.
I wish I could stave off my excitement until final confirmation, but I'm already at full Fangirl status over this! Very exciting news! I'm glad the CA movie is getting a Whedony rewrite too. And I'm very excited about the casting too (Chris Evans and Hayley Atwell? Awesome!) Very cool!

ETA: IMDB's poll is asking how everyone feels about Joss directing The Avengers, but they call him Josh in the positive option. Sigh, very disappointing.

[ edited by Linnea1928 on 2010-04-15 14:27 ]
Yeah trying to hold off the squeeing until we get some confirmation but how frakking awesome would it be to see Joss taking over the greatest super hero team ever?
There have been rumors that the Captain America script was having some problems so Joss doing a pass on it is not a surprise if he's also doing The Avengers.Captain America leads right into his film.

IGN gives their thoughts on Joss doing The Avengers.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2010-04-15 14:06 ]
Joss reworking this script would be awesome! However, not even an amazing script could help Chris Evans' acting abilities...
After Joss rewrites all the dialogue and reworks the ending, I'm sure it will be a wonderful script and he'll direct the hell out of it! I am now officially getting excited about this.
I bet Joss would love to leave the love interest alive and lonely at the end of the film as Captain America is presumed dead (which, even without Joss makes for a pretty brilliant film ending) so that when they do the Avengers film they can have a dear old lady who's had a films worth of sympathy killed off.
If true, this would be encouraging. Not just from a Whedon-fan perspective, but it would be better if the architect of the Avengers were invited to work on preceding movies for universe cohesion, rather than Whedon trying taking notes from Brannagh, Johnstone, and Favreau whilst trying to make his own movie.

Oh, and the greatest Superhero team ever is the Justice League, people....
If this is indeed true, my interest in this whole project starts getting higher. If Joss is actually involved in this and possibly other films leading up to him directing 'The Avengers' then it is becoming even more apparent that he is going to be more than just telling someone where to point the cameras and where the actors should stand.

Having said that, if the rumours Buffyfantic mentions are true, I expect he is getting this re-write due to his reputation of being a script doctor rather than an indication of his involvement in the whole franchise. Either way, it still looks like he will be getting a fair amount of creative control on the project.

@Linnea1928 - just took a look at the poll. I kind of wish that it allowed you to pick multiple options. "I think [JOSS!!!] Whedon rules when it comes to action, drama, and dialogue -- he'll do a great job with this project if he does indeed direct it.", "I'm fine with Whedon directing the project, but I think he should stick with his original ideas.", and "Who are these Avengers?" all apply to me.
"Oh, and the greatest Superhero team ever is the Justice League, people...."
Andy Dufresne

@Spartacus - depends on the continuity - in the comics Peggy gets separated from Cap two weeks before he ends up frozen in the Atlantic. She did indeed survive him and the two meet years later after his body has been recovered and Peggy is an old lady. It's a very moving reconciliation. Cap is now dating her neice Sharon Carter.

I have to say Joss doing a rewrite makes great sense to me. One of his strengths IMO is his ability to give each character their own unique voice. He managed this extraordinarily well with the X-Men, who were not his creations, and Cap's voice is especially tricksy. Steve Rogers' charisma and strength of character are what make him a powerful leader. He inspires people with his words. And he's anarchronistic, a man out of his own time, with a moral compass unblemished by cynicism. To get that right, and not make him holier than though, needs an artiste, or simply put someone of Joss' calibre.

[ edited by viewingfigures on 2010-04-15 17:45 ]

[ edited by viewingfigures on 2010-04-15 17:47 ]
What I really want to know is, will either movie address the key issue of what they're supposed to be avenging?

(Best superhero team: The Scooby Gang.)
Sparticus and viewingfigures bring up good points about the continuity for the movie and the other movies.

I think it would be awesome if they did the Cap movie set in 1942/43 and then the Avengers movie could begin with the discovery of Cap's body frozen in the icy tundra. Or am I suggesting the obvious?

I remember hearing that they put a "frozen" red, white and blue shield" in the arctic for an alternate opening scene to The Incredible Hulk (but I couldn't see too clearly on my television).

Great news! Hopefully Marvel likes the results and we can take a look at how that Thor script is going and if it needs the Whedon touch! ;-)

alexreager from what I've read you're dead on, with the Captain America being a period piece leading into the Avengers set in the present when they discover Captain America's body. This is apparently partly why Captain America movie already has the title "The First Avenger: Captain America". Which is all the more reason for Captain America and the Avengers have a similar voice.

Also in the Incredible Hulk there's other Captain America references. The villain in the Incredible Hulk, the Abomination was created using the supersoldier formula used to create Captain America combined with the Hulk's blood sample (or is it Banners?).

[ edited by Matt_Fabb on 2010-04-15 18:31 ]
Whats up with all the dollhouse hate on that IGN article. That really makes me angry. I wish Nathan Fillion could have played Nick Fury instead of Samuel L. Jackson
I'm not buying into any of this until I see some purple...

[ edited by Djungelurban on 2010-04-15 19:36 ]
The thing with Marvel continuity is that they can kinda screw around with it. The way Marvel works is that there are multiple universes all with similar yet different realities. So if Joss wants to write it so that Bucky actually dies he's more than welcome too. Which would be awesome. Not that I don't like Bucky Cap, but I'm not a massive fan of people not staying dead.
@Craig Oxbrow - The Avengers avenge wrong-doing. A tad nebulous but there you go. Ergo Cap was avenging the crimes of the Nazi's and the Red Skull. As for The Avengers - well we'll have to wait and see - could be a major threat to the planet, could be tail-gating - they're both wrong.

Best Superhero team ever? Guardians of The Galaxy. What's not to like about a Racoon with heavy ordnance and the Deadliest Woman Alive? Plus, Drax the Destroyer. The Destroyer folks, now there's a moniker.

I hate to wander into fantasy superhero fights (that is a lie), but Superman alone would beat the snot out of the X-Men before his morning danish. In fact, he could use Wolverine's talons to pick his teeth.

[ edited by Andy Dufresne on 2010-04-15 20:45 ]
Pfft... All that's needed to beat Superman is a tiny little glowing rock and then even I could kill him all on my own...
Yeah, all you need is an extremely rare extra terrestrial rock, which is so much easier to source than stuff like everything.

And then, someone "like you" can easily sneak up on a guy with telescopic and X-Ray vision, the speed of a mongoose (if a mongoose could move near light speed) and the strength to move a moon.

And let's not forget, Superman doesn't even have the courtesy to stay dead, even IF you could kill him. (My wife is reading this, and mocking me mercilessly)

[ edited by Andy Dufresne on 2010-04-15 20:53 ]
@Andy Dufresne Yeah? Well I bet if Joss wrote Superman he'd be dead in about 2 minutes flat...wait, what?
Superman is a boring superhero, his character exists out of being overpowered and a goody-two-shoes.

I love me some Daredevil.
Andy, that list you just wrote?
that list is why i am not into Superman.
He is just too powerful.
And really if he is that powerful how could
he ever be defeated?
I wont mock you, Andy.
I LIKE comic books.
I loved the X-Men even in the 90s when nobody loved the X-Men. Superman COULD kill them all, but he wouldn't ever do that.

Spider-Man was my very first superhero love, but as teams go, The X-Men will always cream 'em all, bub.
This all just seems a little bit too good to be true. Why hasn't Marvel put out a press release yet confirming Joss as director? I'm waiting for someone to pinch me and ruin my dreams. I don't want them dashed!
If we're assuming for the sake of argument that there even is a Superman at all in the same universe as me, I'm thinking that it's not a very big logical leap to think that I somehow acquired a piece of Kryptonite.

And who says I need to sneak up on him? I mean, it's not like I look like a super villain and unless he can read minds now all of a sudden I can just walk up next to him just like that.

Finally since I'm not really a Superman fan (actually I think he's a really boring superhero) so I have no idea what you're referring to, but in general super villains have a tendency to suck at killing superheroes... So instead I'll just take out my chainsaw and go all Dexter on his ass and divide him up into a number of small boxes that I then ignite and burn up... Bet not even Superman would survive that...

(hmmm... that came across kinda... I don't know... really I'm not that scary... honestly...) :D
Captain America is a character that can be incredibly boring if done wrong, or epic, tragic and layered if done right. Joss is the perfect guy to do him right.

Just think about how tragic the character is: dude was frozen in a block of ice for ~60 years (this version of him, anyway). Everyone he used to know is either dead or really old. He's never even seen the modern world and stuff like cell phones or computers.

He'll be alone and a fish out of water. Ok, sad story so far, but Joss rules at writing pain. Then you get the comic possibilities, which are oodles. He's never seen a cell phone! He probably thinks the Beatles are "screamers". He'll hold doors open for women and get strange looks for it.

That's just my imagination running wild. But whatever Joss does with it, I know it'll be something like that: layered, three dimensional, rich, and occasionally hilarious. It'll be very, very smart of Marvel if they get Joss to do it.
I'm really loving this thread. You guys are awesome.

And everyone knows the X-Men are really just a bubble gun version of The Doom Patrol!! Woo-hoo Robotman!!!
Look, this is very immature comparing superheroes like this. I love and embrace it, but I thought we should all be honest with ourselves.

"Andy, that list you just wrote?
that list is why i am not into Superman.
He is just too powerful.
And really if he is that powerful how could
he ever be defeated?
I wont mock you, Andy.
I LIKE comic books.


"All the things I can do, all those powers, and I couldn't even save him". These are the words young Clark Kent utters as he stands at his human father's grave. A second father ripped away from him by nature, and both before his 18th birthday. How can anyone claim Superman can't be defeated? Great writers know (and Joss Whedon incidentally knows this better than most) that you challenge your heroes not with fists or powers, but by attacking what that character is driven by. When you have an almost god-like superhero, dedicated to the ultimate good and committed to inspiring others, then you have an enthralling looking glass with which to examine the human condition, and a man who is VERY easy to defeat (not to mention badass action).

The United States has the most powerful military force ever assembled by humans. And yet, fiction writers still manage to find a gallery of evil forces to provide enthralling, rich, subversive and thrilling tales in which the USA is under threat. 72 years of Superman scribblers do too.

Knowing all this, it should be easy to see why the breakable and earth bound scientist/businessman/politician Lex Luthor, is one of the most formidable and enduring villains in comic book history.

Oh, and if it isn't self evident by now, I love comic books as well.
@Andy Dufresne Your comments really make me appreciate how much I truly believe Joss is THE man to take on Cap. Steve Rogers was a 90 pound weakling who wanted nothing more than to serve his country. He gets impregnated with the super soldier serum and then realisies he has to represent his country.

The best writers of Cap have always acknowledged that this is an ideal. Something he has to live up to at all times. And the measure of the man is that he makes it look easy. I think this is the core of a great Hero, and your words on Superman confirm this. It isn't the power. It's the man himself.

As a brief counterpoint I would reference the Faith/Buffy power struggle in season 7.

And, yup, another comic book lover here too.
Joss could totally make Captain America shine brighter than before! I'm very hopeful about all of this and the possibility of a more streamlined Marvel universe!
I'm not buying into any of this until I see some purple...

I have a feeling Joss is reading this and wanting to reply, but his hands are handcuffed by Avi Arad and Kevin Feige. And I'm pretty sure there's a gag order in there somewhere.

If we don't get the Purple One here to deny/confirm/'no comment' the "Avengers" news, then surely someone like MTV will pop the question to him on the red carpet or something.
Nah, I doubt it's that cloak and dagger. Once papers are signed, I think we'll hear something right away. They have nothing to gain by keeping it secret, and a movie is such a massive production that keeping the director a secret would be ludicrous/impossible.
This . . . makes me insanely happy actually. Plus, Joss actually said in a past Wizard interview that out of any Marvel character he'd like to work with, it would be Cap. Which makes me happy.
I'd also like to point out that Whedon's participation in "Captain America" is phrased 'most likely', provided that he has enough time between prepping and rewriting Penn's script to polish up the CA script too.

And he wouldn't get a screen credit for "Captain America", maybe a special thanks bit in the end credits. I'm pretty sure that with his rewriting the "Avengers" script, there'll be enough changes for him to get a co-scripting credit on the film too. Maybe it'll go like this: "Screenplay by Joss Whedon, story by Zak Penn" but it'll most likely be this: "Screenplay by Zak Penn and Joss Whedon."

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