April 20 2010
(SPOILER)
Bill Willingham talks Angel at C2E2 2010.
He drops some pretty big spoilers about what's to come... it pertains to Spike. If you're a Willingham fan, there's also plenty of spoilery stuff about Fables, and his other projects.
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Then again, sometimes it's all in the execution (e.g. Shakespeare!), so maybe I'm misjudging him. Maybe what sounds terrible in a one-sentence summary will actually make for a compelling and/or funny story.
...Maybe.
erendis | April 20, 14:13 CET
Hellmouthguy | April 20, 14:23 CET
sueworld2003 | April 20, 14:24 CET
jesse | April 20, 14:31 CET
I've never been the biggest Spike fan, maybe I'm just out of step with his fans about what works for his character?
Hellmouthguy | April 20, 14:38 CET
Fred_Sonja | April 20, 14:45 CET
But here's an attempt to explain my reaction: I see Spike as more of a "screw destiny" kind of guy than a guy who cares about prophecies. Angel's the prophecy guy, the one who worries about doom and fate and destiny; Spike's the guy who does things his own way. Sure, at one point he thought the Shanshu could apply to him, and liked the idea. But I saw that as at least half him screwing with Angel. (Granted, it's been a while since I watched that episode, so my interpretation could be off.) There was also an element of him wanting to take center stage--but ultimately I just don't see him being motivated by prophecies. Not seriously or for any length of time, anyway.
erendis | April 20, 14:49 CET
Hellmouthguy | April 20, 14:59 CET
Also, the whole thing about him coming into a lot of money and hiring unemployed lawyers to write the prophecies for him? It sounds crazy.
As far as the shows having crazier, more wacky elements than the comics - that's true. But it was done well (for the most part) and you actually had actors. I feel like in comics, the 'verse needs to be more serious... more serialized (for lack of a better word)... if they want it to be taken seriously. Otherwise they're going to be spending months trying to tell a story similar to one of Joss' fun, standalone episodes. Readers lose interest and think it's dumb and overdone. Whereas in the show itself, it was one episode out of 22. Those kind of stories were usually told in the middle of a serious arc to give us some room to breathe for an episode before continuing on with the seriousness.
I don't think I explained that very well... but there you have it.
jesse | April 20, 15:03 CET
Buffyfantic | April 20, 15:16 CET
In Not Fade Away, Spike asked Angel if he thought one of them would get to be a "real boy" after the big fight. When Angel mentions they're both gonna be dust, Spike shrugs it off simply saying "as long as it's not you then". That seems like Spike's most honest response to the Shanshu; "Yea, it'd be nice but I don't really care as long as Angel doesn't get it". Yea, there's their big (epic) fight but a lot of that comes down, in my mind, to Spike wanting to be the one on top for once, rather than always being second-best to Angel(us).
trunkstheslayer | April 20, 15:36 CET
Didn't Sahjhan rewrite a prophesy?
And as erendis said "it is all in the execution",
and on account of how i have read
11 volumes of Fables trades in the past week,
i feel comfortable saying Willingham
is one of the top 5 writers in comics today.
He can make 22pp work.
edit: sahjhan not skip
[ edited by espalier on 2010-04-21 00:40 ]
espalier | April 20, 15:37 CET
The Dark Shape | April 20, 15:44 CET
The part where he suddenly, randomly comes into tons of money and hires out of work lawyers that however seems corny and is just a really bad plot point.
I can picture Spike figuring out how to write prophesies and writing them himself, using it as a joke to make Angel's head three sizes bigger, or more likely as a weapon, since they are essentially suggesting that writing something as a prophesy makes it come to pass.
corinna | April 20, 16:44 CET
Emmie | April 20, 21:01 CET
Maggie | April 20, 21:19 CET
This is exactly the beginning of the Jack of Fables storyline, where Jack wants to write himself bigger and more powerful, by buying a Hollywood studio and making movies about himself.
I'll be back for Brian Lynch, but I'm not touching this series with a ten foot pole.
[ edited by Changeling on 2010-04-21 11:34 ]
| April 20, 21:34 CET
I also think that it is totally in character - I agree that Spike has always been the "screw destiny" guy, but writing your own prophecies sounds like a pretty good and original way to screw with destiny. It shows that he has no respect, that he is not in awe of the wise women and men of old with their ancient knowledge. It sounds like an "if they can do it, I can do it" thing. Perfect for Spike.
Of course, there's the danger that it turns out a "Jack of Fables" rehash. But there could be worse things.
Jakob Schmidt | April 21, 00:04 CET
I'll be back for Brian Lynch, but I'm not touching this series with a ten foot pole.
Yup. Reading Brian Lynch's Formspring Q&A, I'm feeling optimistic for his Spike stuff. He was recently asked how he'd like to see Spike back in the mix in Season 8, in view of his upcoming appearance. Other than wanting Spike to comment on the Buffy/Twangel nonsense, he says 'panel time with Xander and Dawn'. A big yes to this. Would be great to see the Xander/Spike snark back and a glimpse again of the Spike/Dawn friendship.
shazzam | April 21, 00:11 CET
Sorry but the character is only interesting with a soul (and I don't mean that in the Buffyverse sense).
@Jakob Schmidt: I'm a big time Fables fan and I saw Willingham as a great writer before this, but we are already three issues into his arc, so there's no way around it: The execution IS sloppy. Most of the characters sound nothing like themselves and while the plot could have been interesting, so much canon and lore from the show is ignored that it doesn't fit in. It reads like he watched maybe ten episodes of Angel.
| April 21, 02:44 CET
If Willingham really is sloppy with Angel, then that's quite a letdown. However, I still like the idea outlined above. I think I will give it a chance, but I'll wait for the trade paperback.
[ edited by Jakob Schmidt on 2010-04-21 18:39 ]
Jakob Schmidt | April 21, 03:16 CET
I really wanted to like this and I even defended it through the beginning, because I thought maybe he'd just need some time to find his footing, but it's getting worse instead of better.
| April 21, 03:28 CET
Jakob Schmidt | April 21, 09:41 CET
YES. Very true, but at least Lynch writes Spike. I'll be back for Lynch's series.
Emmie | April 21, 10:13 CET