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April 29 2010

(SPOILER) "The Spike Conundrum" - an IDW editor speaks. IDW's Mariah Huehner (current Editor of the Angel line) blogs about the current Angel arc.

It's nice that she took the time to address things.I'm usually on the wait and see mode anyway and I really enjoyed today's new issue of Angel as well.
I like her. Can we keep her around? She's pretty cool in my book. ;) Alright, I'll give him a chance.
It's a great article from her as usual, but I can't help but feel it's just a reaction to the (almost) universal dislike of Willingham's handle on the characters. The way Spike (and other characters) have been acting lately can't just be completely chalked up to post-traumatic fall syndrome, it's more of a case of just bad writing.
Close to universal or close universal on this board?

Willingham's arc was DOA when he chose to open his mouth about the Angel reveal. To be honest, I think he did have a legitimate gripe about it, but I was watching half this board threaten to boycott the Angel series months before his first issue came out.

So, no offense to anyone intended, but I'll reserve judgement on Willingham's treatment of the charecter's until I've read the entire arc. Everyone is free to throw eggs after a few issues if they consider that fair. I give Joss that much latitude, so I'm not going to give Willingham anything less. If I did, then it would be rather hypocritical to tell friends to give Joss' shows time to develop, 'eh?

[ edited by azzers on 2010-04-29 06:52 ]
That all sounds nice and it kinda makes me wish, she would write the comic, but it doesn't really correspond with my impression of the comics.

My problem wasn't any tarnishing of Spike's hero status. Like Mariah, I think flaws make the character. It's just that what was displayed here are not Spike's flaws. They don't fit with the character, some never did and some did maybe back in S4 but even back then there was not just that one side to him.

And that comes in addition to a charactervoice that just doesn't sound like him.

I'm in fandom, I'll hear if that supposed turn around occurs and if t pays off. If that happens I can buy the collective volumes, but at the moment I don't trust them to make a good story about the characters I like.

[ edited by Changeling on 2010-04-29 08:00 ]
Sooo.... we're meant to hate the comic because it's all part of the plan? Yeah, that makes sense.

And how much can I state that not everything is about Spike? A lot of people who have a problem with the book, have a problem with pretty much every aspect of it's writing and character portrayals.


Willingham's arc was DOA when he chose to open his mouth about the Angel reveal. To be honest, I think he did have a legitimate gripe about it, but I was watching half this board threaten to boycott the Angel series months before his first issue came out.

That's such a cop-out at this point. The fact is this is a Whedon board and somebody attacked Whedon so people got upset. That's how the internet works. But was there a precipitous drop off in sales for Angel after that? No.

People are upset with the book because of poor characterization, and now we're being told that it's intentional? How is that a good way to tell story? Have character's go completely OOC without any context and then when people get upset say to them, "no, no, no, this is part of the plan. Even though you aren't getting any satisfaction from the story keep reading(buying) because it will all make sense."

One could argue the same thing has happened with Twangel, the difference being that in the Buffy comic you have one character obviously acting weird, whereas in Angel nearly everyone is and the story hasn't informed the audience that this is a plot point. So much so that the editor of the book has felt the need to step outside the story to explain what is going on.
And how much can I state that not everything is about Spike? A lot of people who have a problem with the book, have a problem with pretty much every aspect of it's writing and character portrayals.

Yup, copletely agree. I mean to Spike's fans, Spike probably sticks out the most, but it's not like Illyria for example is written any more in character.

And I also object to putting this one the "repugnant" conundrum. I'm a big time Fables fan, I defended BW through that thing, but the writing makes it or breakes it for me.
Mariah's post helps a bit. At least she tell us that they know what they're doing and they acknowledged fans reaction.

But conundrum? Another "plot twist" ala Twilight bad but Angel good?

[ edited by anca on 2010-04-29 10:29 ]
So Spike will stick around until issue 35 and beyond? I wonder when he'll have time for his own series? Not a complaint mind you, just wondering how it'll fit together.
Sky-I think this is truly turing into a comicbook in the sense that characters can seemingly be in several places at once. A character like Wolverine or Deadpool in the Marvel Universe has like 6 books. I'm sure that they won't all be taking place at the "same time" in order to keep some sort of continuity.

Oh, and whaddup Z-Man?

[ edited by Jelly on 2010-04-29 14:45 ]
Somebody needs to tell Ms. Huehner and/or Willingham and IDW that taking an solid, established character and making them act extremely OOC without explaination doesn't go over very well with this fandom. Joss Whedon & Mutant Enemy tried it in season 4 of Angel with the character of Cordelia Chase and we all know how that worked out.

[ edited by menomegirl on 2010-04-29 15:56 ]
Joss Whedon & Mutant Enemy tried it in season 4 of Angel with the character of Cordelia Chase and we all know how that worked out.


Worked out quite well for me. It was a hell of a payoff to find out that Cordelia was behind all that was going wrong for Angel.
Perhaps it was but the payoff was at the expense of her character.

IMO, of course.
No offense, but the character of Cordelia was never OCC in season 4. Because she wasn't trully Cordelia anymore. Let's not forget that she was either A)Possessed or B)Under a spell. Maybe both.

About Spike possibly appearing in two comic books at once, around the same time: I hate the idea.

It won't work unless the writers work together closely. Even if the stories take place at different times, the possibility to screw up will be big, but at the same time, nu uh. Can't have Spike acting one way in one comic, and another way in a second comic. What happens in one comic also have to affect that happens in the other, facts shouldn't clash, not in series like these, who seem to be equally canon-y.

So, rant over. I'll just see how it goes. I'll always have the "Neither is canon"-card to play, in case I don't like it.

[ edited by Skytteflickan88 on 2010-04-29 21:18 ]
Skytteflickan88, I haven't forgotten anything. I meant what I said about season 4. There's an essay somewhere that explains better than I could: The assassination of Cordelia Chase.
Okay, then I guess we just disagree about the OCC stuff (I'm too lazy to read the essay).
You really ought to. It's written very well. I don't agree with all of it but the essay makes a valid point.
Regarding Cordy, honestly I'm with Simon in that the explanation was a great reveal. I think the problem with it was, the rest of the payoff wasn't really that great.

If Cordy had been brought back and actually had to DEAL with the aftermath, S4 would probably be thought of differently. But as it stood, to many it just felt cheap. I was sitting there thinking, "if you wanted to kill her, it would have been better to do it in one episode."

But to your point, you CAN backsell changes in charecter. OOC is only OOC without explanation. Yes, we might find out that Willingham really doesn't get the charecters. But we might also find out that he knows them so well, he knows what would make them react in a way we're not accustomed to seeing.
azzers, that last paragraph is gold. I really hope that's what's going on. I haven't read his arc yet, I am kind of afraid to because of what I've heard, but that sounds like a great explanation. Or fanwank. I'll see when I read.

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