"It's a ritual sacrifice. With pie."
May 06
2010
(SPOILER)
Jo Chen cover and solicitation for Buffy Season 8 #36.
This'll be out in September. And
MTV's Splash Page has the Georges Jeanty cover.
Buffyfantic
| BtVS
| 11:14 CET
|
88 comments total
| tags: buffy season 8, jo chen, georges jeanty
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CrystalSC | May 06, 11:22 CET
shazzam | May 06, 11:27 CET
anca | May 06, 11:29 CET
Simon | May 06, 11:44 CET
Oh, Simon. Don't get me excited. ;)
redeem147 | May 06, 11:48 CET
Arison | May 06, 11:54 CET
The cover's style is kinda bland for my tastes, but overall a beautiful likeness except... eyes. Not blue. Okay. I'd let this go if it were a long shot, but it's a close-up and Spike's uber-blue eyes are a huge facial feature. A close-up portrait of Spike's face is easy to hit all the major points: uber blue eyes, very obvious scar across the end tip of his left eyebrow, cutting cheekbones.
Seems like the cheekbones and most of the rest are well imagined in the art, but the two most obvious standouts, eye color and eyebrow scar, missed the finishing touch.
So while I'm absolutely happy to have a Spike cover, it's still a bit underwhelming.
[ edited by Emmie on 2010-05-09 07:56 ]
Emmie | May 06, 12:10 CET
Hellmouthguy | May 06, 12:10 CET
Simon | May 06, 12:11 CET
Sunfire | May 06, 12:26 CET
It's hard to successfully subvert the trope when the story is actively (and seemingly inadvertently) perpetuating the trope.
[ edited by Emmie on 2010-05-06 21:32 ]
Emmie | May 06, 12:29 CET
Can't stop looking at the Jo Chen one. I'm not underwhelmed by it at all, though agree blue eyes would be nice, its still gorgeous artwork and a bloody good likeness. I join Arison in the gleeful 'SPIKE' shouting.
shazzam | May 06, 12:29 CET
eddy | May 06, 12:33 CET
I really like Chen's cover. The expression is completely intriguing to me, and I prefer the idea of Spike as a personage in his own right than simply as one of Buffy's suitors. (And funny that at this point I see Angel as diminished to just that -- but that's pretty much what #35 did for me).
[ edited by Maggie on 2010-05-06 21:33 ]
Maggie | May 06, 12:33 CET
Agree 100% with Emmie on the Chen cover! It's a nice enough likeness but I too wish it was more dynamic, etc. I am actually reluctantly excited for Season 8! But I guess the return of a favorite character will do that to you, =) Also, Joss! Yay Joss! I know, pointing out the obvious but still, SQUEE!
KaileeA42 | May 06, 12:35 CET
[ edited by Emmie on 2010-05-09 07:56 ]
Emmie | May 06, 12:35 CET
Anyway, love Jo's cover and Georges' is indeed funny.
UnpluggedCrazy | May 06, 12:42 CET
Arison | May 06, 12:44 CET
I like Jeanty's cover. It made me laugh. And I'm wondering about the symbolism of it considering Bella doesn't end up with Jacob who is blocking her from Edward (And Spike is blocking Buffy from Angel). But then, Jeanty has never been very literal with his covers.
CrystalSC | May 06, 12:48 CET
Emmie | May 06, 12:48 CET
Buffyfantic | May 06, 12:48 CET
The Dark Shape | May 06, 12:49 CET
UnpluggedCrazy | May 06, 12:51 CET
Emmie | May 06, 12:59 CET
The Dark Shape | May 06, 13:00 CET
I agree about the blue eyes and scar which he got from the Chinese slayer. I hope they can change it before it comes out, given that it's a 4 month wait i think it can be done. If not then, then atleast in the TPB of the final arc.
And i rather like the potrait appearence, we haven't gotten many or any of those in season8. And Spike's look just rocks, very menancing. Hopefully this anger will be targeted at the one that so very much deserves it, Twilight. The age bit is also right on the money, if i was really critical i would even say that those wrinkles weren't needed. Spike looked perfectly how he should look in Always darkest. Eternally young, vampire.
Best seasons to reference his look is season 5,6 of Buffy, the added advantage that James trained his body a lot in those seasons and it showed. Worst season, season 5 Angel.
Second cover, not a fan. Everything about Twilight bores me. I don't know if the cover is relevant in any way to the issue. Unless it's supposed to imply that Buffy will in the end choose Angel over Spike and Spike will fall in love with ...wel you know the rest, really really icky stuff.
Vergil | May 06, 13:08 CET
When free will is violated by an outside force (even partially if not totally) that affects an individual's ability to consent and sex follows, you've entered into rape territory. In this case, I'm calling it rape metaphor. Not everybody sees it but I can find a lot of people who do see it this way--it's a legitimate reading.
Total consent is not possible when Buffy (and Angel even) has been slipped a mickey to "egg" her on. The Universe gave her an aphrodesiac to speed her getting over her murderous rage so she'd move on to the world-destroying frakking.
[ edited by Emmie on 2010-05-06 22:13 ]
Emmie | May 06, 13:11 CET
tranquillity | May 06, 13:13 CET
Fred_Sonja | May 06, 13:19 CET
I would rather see a perfect shiny vampire hybrid baby rip its way out of Bella's abdomen than read the Buffy comics these days.
ailiel | May 06, 13:21 CET
As for George's cover - I'm not reading anything into it. I think he's just having a bit of fun with the whole Twilight thing and its not meant to be taken seriously. It made me chuckle anyway!
Have to say, I detest Twilight and all its characters with a passion. I also think it has one of the worst love triangles ever created and I root for none of them. So I'm definitely not seeing any parallels or hidden metaphors between the two verses. Whedons characters, even in comic verse, are a hell of a lot more interesting and complex than Meyers. Just my opinion though.
Jeanty is a naughty man - that cover made my roll my eyes and chuckle at the same time. Tsk tsk.
[ edited by shazzam on 2010-05-06 22:43 ]
shazzam | May 06, 13:28 CET
Another month and two more wonderful covers!
I'm very excited to read the upcoming Joss-penned arc!!
alexreager | May 06, 13:28 CET
George's cover is a great take to all this Twilight nonsense, and I like how Angel is back into his three belt gladiator costume. But, he and Spike look very rigid, almost like action figures. Eh bien. It's still pretty clever. Team Jacob!
Guestage Drew | May 06, 13:30 CET
Emmie | May 06, 13:41 CET
Vergil | May 06, 13:54 CET
Not tipping my hand as to my preference - just disappointed with the state Buffy fandom, of which these two covers are a reflection and statement.
AMCsoldier | May 06, 14:35 CET
The Jeanty cover...ok...an hommage of a feminist franchise to the single most antifeminist frenchise of the decade. I really hope it's meant as a parody, else I'd not know for which of the three I would feel insulted for the most.
| May 06, 15:27 CET
The Dark Shape | May 06, 16:41 CET
Emmie | May 06, 17:01 CET
eddy | May 06, 17:03 CET
Or is that being nose-picky?
redeem147 | May 06, 17:24 CET
So, worry not and look for uber-violet Liz Taylor eyes on Spike when the book hits shelves.
Jo Chen | May 06, 18:13 CET
Xane | May 06, 18:28 CET
Also, does anyone know when the 7th TPB comes out?
[ edited by tjbw on 2010-05-07 03:31 ]
tjbw | May 06, 18:30 CET
vampmogs | May 06, 18:48 CET
Jo Chen | May 06, 19:10 CET
Last minute cover change? I can't really see this cover making people too angry.
Also, the lack of an arc title has me quite intrigued.
[ edited by MattManic7325 on 2010-05-07 05:13 ]
[ edited by Sunfire on 2010-05-07 05:25 ]
Matt7325 | May 06, 20:13 CET
(Its DAD!)
Say what you will about the direction of the Buffy comics, but I've never lost my appetite while reading them.
That was one ruined bowl of borscht...
MadeToLoveJoss | May 06, 20:18 CET
My slightly facetious counter-argument is that technically it's the actors that are flawed. What with how the people playing vampires age with with passing of time or how sometimes even the human actors are several years older than their characters so 23/24 year old Nick Fury Xander should hypothetically look more like Buffy season 1-ish Nicolas Brendon.
Incidentally, I think the New Moon cover is sort of hilarious in a benign way though I dig lush painted takes on parody covers. (Whether harlequin romances or like those Marvel Zombie ones.) Whatever we feel of the series itself the promotional materials for it just hit such a ridiculous saturation point that it can be recognized for the love triangle/three-way shorthand rather than the specifics of exactly how screwed up the three leads actually are to people more familiar with the series.
orangewaxlion | May 06, 22:07 CET
:-) My girlfriend will be so happy!
cleveland | May 06, 22:14 CET
Some fans have expressed the opinion that The Girl In Question is a meta realization of the shipping argument of Angel and Spike arguing over who gets Buffy, who gets to win the prize. The episode makes the point of showing how it's not about Buffy at all though, it's about Angel and Spike's relationship along with their individual development. The idea is supposed to undercut how it's silly to fight over who wins--Angel or Spike--because that's not what matters in the end. It's individual character that's most important, that and friendship.
Emmie | May 06, 22:28 CET
How about more recently as in Always Darkest. In there Buffy dreams that she's no longer the "love of their lives". Her fears about Angel are removed, so next will be Spike?
anca | May 06, 22:41 CET
Even allowing for the missing eyebrow scar and eye colour It's a lovely colour, miles better the Jeanty's imo, which as per just looks extremely crude and jarring in comparison.
And don't get me started on the shipper/fan baiting that appears to be going on in that cover. I mean is this all season 8 is going to boil down into? Joss and co taking cheap pot shots at his own readership/fanbase, because from where I'm standing it looks pretty much like it.
Weak.
sueworld2003 | May 06, 22:43 CET
iwearthecheese | May 06, 23:09 CET
Simon | May 06, 23:16 CET
And on the Jeanty cover: Man, are the siz screwed up. Spike is quite a bit shorter than Angel and has not nearly that much hight on Buffy.
| May 07, 00:06 CET
I know that Whedon isn't that daft, but hell, it adds nothing new or constructive to that very tired old avenue, does it? Or am I missing something subtle here?
Although who am I kidding, 'subtle' and 'Season 8' don't seem to be a mixey thing in this series so far.
Oh and Changeling the sizes are about right. SMG is of very small stature, and JM is a wee bloke as well I'm afraid. *g*
[ edited by sueworld2003 on 2010-05-07 09:41 ]
sueworld2003 | May 07, 00:28 CET
Charmuse | May 07, 01:30 CET
I think you would be quite suprised checking out the rest of the cast's heights over at idmb, Alexis Denisof for example is 3cm taller then David which i didn't have a clue about. The creators used fantastic camera-tricks,use different angles so the viewers really wouldn't notice it.
The sex in issue33 was probably one of the worst size screw ups. Angel was drawn to be slightly taller then Buffy, which is all kinds of wrong. As it can be clearly seen in 'I will remember you', Buffy was tiny when she was with Angel.
I'm actually hoping Karl Moline will get a shot at drawing Spike, his body type for Icarus was perfect for Spike.
Vergil | May 07, 01:50 CET
Did I mention I want to be Jo Chen when I grow up??
The Do That Girl | May 07, 01:58 CET
side note: is it just me, or is it basically the same 5 or so people continually ragging on S8 in every thread dedicated to it?
cazador | May 07, 03:55 CET
wenxina | May 07, 04:32 CET
Because Joss is obviously a Spangel.
redeem147 | May 07, 07:01 CET
Morrydwen | May 07, 07:12 CET
Sunfire | May 07, 07:38 CET
I think what would have been good in Georges' cover was if Buffy was holding a weapon of some sort to highlight that she is the strong, active heroine: the complete opposite of the passive Bella.
Shep | May 07, 08:33 CET
Maggie | May 07, 09:42 CET
In my opinion, I think you've taken this train of thought a little too far, though I understand this is a very dark and very complex subject. This quote made me think of having sex while tipsy/drunk with someone you love. If my boyfriend and I split a bottle of wine, and the "outside influence" of the alcohol leads to fun times, I don't think this is rape in ANY way; nor do I think that either of us (both adults who are very much in love) was unable to provide informed consent.
The way I see it, Buffy and Angel love each other, and lust for each other. Their inhibitions were lowered, but neither party was forced against their will to magic space sex.
Just my two cents!
5X5B | May 07, 09:44 CET
Giles and Joyce in Band Candy.
anca | May 07, 09:56 CET
Curious concept of consent, when something so severely distorting Angel's ethical judgment was also distorting Buffy's.
BUFFY: No -- the moment you look away -- the bad guy jumps out -- there's a bomb under the car . . . the apple's been poisoned.
ANGEL: Apple, maybe. Poison, no.
BUFFY: Well, SOMETHING was in that apple. 'Cause what I'm feeling is a whole lot weirder than 'afterglow'.
Not at this juncture.
bluegrrl | May 07, 13:05 CET
He's referring to the cover for #35 in the tweet.
[ edited by Sunfire on 2010-05-08 00:26 ]
wenxina | May 07, 13:13 CET
Actually, 5x5B, I haven't taken it far enough. I'd like to offer you this post: "Sexuality, Consent and the Buffyverse". It's fine if you don't see it or agree with it, but the underlying meaning is there. Violation of consent and rape metaphors are not a rare occurrence in the Buffyverse, but a defining (and what to me tastes rank) flavor. When discussing these tropes, it's in light of the societal context of gender and women's issues at large and how women are portrayed in media.
[ edited by Emmie on 2010-05-08 21:17 ]
Emmie | May 07, 14:56 CET
Emmie, the one thing I don't get about your consent/rape metaphor thing is that you're saying they were egged on by an intelligent, sentient Universe...but where in the text does it say the Universe is sentient? Because the Universe is the Universe, I would think that Buffy and Angel being "egged on" to have sex in issue #34 is the same thing as two people ANYWHERE feeling like they want to have sex with each other.
Edit: I also feel like Buffy and Angel could've done anything together -- painted a picture, watched a movie, go for a swim -- and the same thing would've happened. I feel that this Universe was encouraging them to be together, to be close, and they chose to have sex (and I don't blame them).
But that's just how I perceived it.
Also: "overwhelming male gaze of season 8"? What does that mean? Are you referring to a large number of male characters? Why is that a bad thing?
[ edited by Waterkeeper511 on 2010-05-08 02:42 ]
[ edited by Waterkeeper511 on 2010-05-08 02:50 ]
Waterkeeper511 | May 07, 17:41 CET
Lirazel | May 07, 18:23 CET
Waterkeeper511 | May 07, 18:36 CET
If he knew the wine was spiked, though, and kept putting a glass in your hand while you were engaged in animated conversations at a party & not suspecting that your will was being weakened, it would be. Buffy not only doesn't know that she's drinking something else -- she doesn't even know that it's Angel who keeps handing her the glass.
And if you found out that in between rounds, he'd been trotting outside while gang members were randomly shooting your dormmates, and excused it on the grounds that he had really been trying to misdirect their fire, I'm sure that it wouldn't seem like good lovin' anymore.
bluegrrl | May 08, 00:24 CET
hence | May 08, 01:39 CET
Look, you can't look at these issues in isolation. You can't. You have to look at them within the context of all the other times in the Buffyverse in which consent is questionable. I'm compiling a list here (Emmie's link above was broken) that lists all the times my friends and I can think of that depict either A) questionable consent or B) sex leading to horrible badness. Located within the context of an unfolding pattern of these things, the latest developments in S8 become incredibly problematic. And there are more suggestions in the comments that I haven't edited into the list yet. This is not a new development. The attitudes towards sex in the Buffyverse have long been shady. S8 has just been the tipping point for a lot of people.
And if you really can't see that, I wash my hands of the whole thing.
Also, feminism has long been of the Yes Means Yes opinion, not the No Means No one. The difference is a major and vital one.
[ edited by Lirazel on 2010-05-08 19:43 ]
Lirazel | May 08, 09:01 CET
But this analogy doesn't work because said wine would be a tangible object that was spiked (haha...okay, not the time for a pun). In Buffy and Angel's case, we're talking about the Universe -- all of EXISTENCE. It has both a tangible and an intangible form. It is just as much internal as, thanks to hence's interpretation, external. Buffy and Angel's feelings for each other are a part of the Universe, just as much as anything else is.
The spiked wine analogy works when you consider it on human terms. Right now, Angel and Buffy are beyond human (or, they are beyond Slayer and vampire) and therefore, these analogies and metaphors don't apply so easily. If you and a person (whom you love) were "influenced" to have sex by fate, is it rape?
"Universe" here refers to the internal drive, as hence explained, and it connects to the physical world. There isn't a physical being out there named Universe that sits on his couch and goes "Hmm, I think I'm gonna mess with Buffy's head today." The Universe is all that is and all that was and all that will be, and all that CAN POSSIBLY be. You can't turn it into a villain.
Waterkeeper511 | May 08, 09:08 CET
luv4whedon | May 08, 10:50 CET
Fair enough. I was focusing on this one instance. Less fair is the notion that those who criticize your criticism are automatically totally blind to what you’re pointing out. In my view: so what if it’s got consent issues in its metaphors? In most interpretations what you call rape will often turn into things like uncontrollable lust, etc.
hence | May 08, 11:11 CET
If you don't think that this sort of consistent thing is problematic, then, yes, I have a problem with that, and I'm not going to mince words about it. Just like I have a problem with those who dismiss my thoughts about his racial issues. Just like I have problems with those who act as though, say, Supernatural's unrelenting misogyny or the systemic racism we see on television is not a big deal. Like whatever you want--I still like BtVS, and I always will. I like a lot of things that are screwed up--sexist or racist or ableist or homophobic or whatever. It's impossible to live in such a profoundly screwed-up culture and not like some such things, especially considering if we waited for something that was perfect on every front, we'd have nothing to like.
But I acknowledge their problems, and I support those who can't overlook those things. Dismissing other people's genuine concerns about something that affects them (and yes, depictions of consent affect me, they most certainly do) as something that should be looked at in a vacuum or as someone just being overly emotional or just looking for things to be upset about (uh-huh), yeah, that pisses me off.
In my view: so what if it’s got consent issues in its metaphors? Because consent is a battle I fight daily. Daily. Trying to get people to understand this is nearly impossible in a cultural climate in which consent is assumed as the default ("She didn't say no!" "Look what she was wearing!" "She shouldn't have been there!"), and it is a daily battle for all of us who care about the fact that 1 in 4 women in America (1 in 3 African-American women, 1 in 2 Native American women, and 1 in 3 women in the UK) will be the victims of sexual assault in their lives (and that doesn't take into account the lesser numbers of men and boys who also suffer and who are also affected by this cultural attitude towards consent). Every story that involves questionable consent and doesn't deal with the ramifications of that in a responsible way just perpetuates the problem, creating an atmosphere that victim-blames and excuses rape. There's a reason we call it Rape Culture.
You can like it. It can work for you. But above you virtually told us that we shouldn't see questionable consent there, and if you're dismissing other people's thoughtful feelings about it with a "So what?" then I'm not really interested in being "fair," by your definition of that word.
In most interpretations what you call rape will often turn into things like uncontrollable lust, etc. I have no idea what you're saying here, but I suspect I totally and vehemently disagree.
[eta] I also judge Joss more harshly because he describes himself as feminist. Embracing that term gives you more responsibility, not less, and I feel like a lot of people cut him a lot of slack that they shouldn't, simply because he has embraced that word. I'm much more concerned about what he actually shows in his work than I am about how he describes himself or what charities he gets involved in.
luv4whedon, I can't speak for anyone else about how to react to Whedon. I do think I may be jumping ship on him myself, unless someone whose opinions I value (on many things: I have other storytelling issues with him besides worldview ones) comes to me and tells me that his next project is more thoughtful and less blinded by his privilege. But I still care about Buffy, about its characters, about its story, so I'm going to keep critiquing him. Everyone has to determine how to prioritize things and how to weigh things in the balance. Do whatever you like!
[ edited by Lirazel on 2010-05-08 21:07 ]
Lirazel | May 08, 11:48 CET
luv4whedon | May 08, 12:15 CET
I also edited my link above to your "Sexuality, Consent and the Buffyverse". This is what happens when I'm not online 24/7. Yikes!
Emmie | May 08, 12:22 CET
Just because there’s questionable elements in the metaphors doesn’t open up for very strong criticism. It would be like arguing that because the show has vampires biting humans it somehow condones dental violence :)
hence | May 08, 13:13 CET
Life imitates art. Art imitates life. Questionable Consent and the failure to properly address this issue with necessary import and attention is reflective of the Rape Culture we live in and is now seen as running rampant in the Whedonverse. What's disturbing is that Whedonverse art imitates life in perpetuating a blase attitude of sexuality consent issues.
Emmie | May 10, 11:42 CET
SoddingNancyTribe | May 10, 11:52 CET
[ edited by Emmie on 2010-05-10 21:02 ]
Emmie | May 10, 12:01 CET