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June 08 2010

The Guardian speculates about who could be in the new Torchwood series. Many Whedonites in the frame.

Dichen Lachman.
she could play the new tosh, I'd like to see her in that sort of geeky tech support role.
I suppose this is like what happened with primeval. saved by americans.
I actually liked how Children of Earth ended and hoped if it started again it'd be with completely new faces.
Fran, Alexis, Dichen. All would be marvelous. :)
Keep the team they ended up with? Evil Q and the Special Forces woman. I'd be happy with that.
Felicia Day said in an interview a while back (on the Knights of the Guild anniversary webcast if I remember rightly) that she'd like to be in a UK scifi show like Torchwood.
Well, Jack will need a master of disguise...and his twin brother.
Oh, Enver.......
@Okelay
"I suppose this is like what happened with primeval. saved by americans."

What does that mean? Please tell me my native land had nothing to do with the 3rd season of Primeval. I have a hard enough time defending the Bush years, let alone a travesty of that magnitude....
If Felicia Day is considered for a role, I hope it's something completely against type. I think she has the makings of a fun action hero, or maybe a villian. But I fear she's rapidly falling into the "Meg Ryan zone" as far as roles go....

And bringing back Captain John Hart seems like a no brainer!
A lot of the actors The Guardian mentioned already have jobs. Spread the wealth please!
Add actors who are either struggling in their careers (Denisof), or go with unknowns.
I'd love to see more Captain John! He was such a enjoyable and wonderfully colourful character.
In my reality, Torchwood season 4 would have Jack and Gwen locating the missing Torchwood 4 team, consisting of Felicia Day as their techie, Dichen Lachman as their medic, Enver Gjokaj as their Ops man, Alexis Denisof (or Alan Tudyk) as their version of Ianto and the team leader, Tony Head.

I've been looking around the net for info as to when season 4 would begin airing (was hoping it would be shortly after the current Dr. Who concludes), it seems we won't be seeing new Torchwood for what, 6-9 months at the soonest. sad now.
I don't expect to see Torchwood until next summer at the very earliest.
Need more John Hart.
@mbeauparland:
No, I think Okelay means seasons 4&5 of "Primeval", currently in production, are co-produced by BBC Worldwide, BBC America, German channel Pro7, two UK-broadcasters and other companies after the show was cancelled by itv.

My choice for new castmembers:
James Marsters as Captain John,
Russell Tovey as Alonso,
Cush Jumbo as Lois,
Liz May Brice as Johnson
and Felicia Day as a new technician.

[ edited by roadi on 2010-06-09 05:27 ]
Yeah, as suggested by many in a previous thread, Felicia Day as an apparently meek techie who turns out to be badass too. Alexis Denisof could counter the problem of it becoming too Americanised (since he could play a Brit too if necessary). Enver cos every show needs an Enver. James Marsters, as the article says, seems a fairly natural choice. Depends how they're approaching the "international" aspect really - if it's an international team but still mainly in Cardiff then i'd say they don't want to go too "big" since I wouldn't want our peeps (or Cardiff) to be overshadowed, if it's the existing team (maybe with the hinted additions from CoE) but in an international setting (i.e. very little Cardiff) then there're loads of US stars that could fit in smaller roles or as villains etc.

And "Primeval" is one of those shows where its (apparent) international appeal just baffles me. The odd episode aside it's bad enough that I wouldn't have thought any number of English accents or shots of the Forest of Dean could counterbalance it.
Honestly, I don't really care who else is on the show as long as we get Russell Tovey! I adore him. I also wouldn't mind seeing more of Cush Jumbo as Lois Habiba. I would hate to have Mickey and Martha show up as regulars, but I would be curious to see RTD try to justify making them a couple out of the blue.
"And "Primeval" is one of those shows where its (apparent) international appeal just baffles me. The odd episode aside it's bad enough that I wouldn't have thought any number of English accents or shots of the Forest of Dean could counterbalance it."

Primeval is like picking at a scab. You know you shouldn't enjoy it, but you do even though it kinda hurts and you know it's going to scar you.... I can't help but feel there's a decent show in it, although I haven't quite seen it come out yet.
..Who's evil Q? Oh wait, that took me typing it out. Q as in the James Bond tech and evil as in the soulless old guy. In hindsight Children of Earth did leave a number of potential recurring characters alive...

I'd like to see Lois back if not for the risk of her character dying. Then again I'd actually like to see Freema Agyeman too but they'd also be locked into bringing back Mickey. (Nothing against him but I just thought that was wildly arbitrary.)
Q as in the James Bond tech and evil as in the soulless old guy.


That's the one. He was fantastic, loved to see more of him. I'm guessing that with the emphasis on the States that we won't see anymore of Billis Manger? I had kinda hoped he would be a recurring character.
Yeah, he was quite firmly set in the Cardiff area, bit parochial for All New Torchwood International™ i'd imagine (and he wasn't mentioned in series 2 or 'Children of Earth' IIRC so they'd have to do a lot of work to reintroduce him). Not sure about recurring baddies, none really leap out as must-be-seen-agains for me though i'd love to see more of Gwen in full-on Ripley mode and it'd be very cool to see the eleventh Doctor make an appearance (really doubt he will but it'd be totally bow-ties ;).

... I can't help but feel there's a decent show in it, although I haven't quite seen it come out yet.

There've been some good moments mbeauparland (an early-ish episode with a pterodactyl kind of thing which conveyed the joy of seeing these amazing creatures effectively brought back to life and another one where a mate of Young Nerdy Guy gets infected with an ancient parasite which, in an understated way, was a fairly moving kind of downbeat celebration of both friendship and the power of reason - when the parasite first roamed the Earth there was nothing on it that could think, nothing with self-awareness enough to resist its control) but for the most part it usually doesn't hang together, the scripts are often embarrassingly clunky and some of the acting is, well, let's be charitable and call it "workmanlike" (IMO). Not watched any of series 3 though, maybe it picks up ?
Series 3 was one of the best tv events of recent years. The BBC played a blinder in scheduling it over 5 days. It was fantastic television and so different to what gone before on Torchwood. I loved it.
That was referring to Series 3 of 'Primeval' Simon. I was a convert to 'Torchwood' after the (IMO) much improved second series so wasn't about to miss 'Children of Earth' which was indeed one of the TV events of recent years and really gripping drama (the 5 day format helped paper over the very occasional lapse just because the whole thing had such momentum).
Don't misunderstand me I'm a die hard doctor who fan, but the lasts Torchwood episodes have been so great that I can't wait to see it boosted the US way even though it's not always a good thing, but if they keep Eve Myles on board (and I love her, she's just not the kind of girl you'd see at this role in a US show), I'm confident they'll keep the spirit of the show intact
Soooo ... bring us back James Marsters!
That was referring to Series 3 of 'Primeval' Simon.


My mistake, I watched the first episode of Primeval but it didn't capture my attention. Though I watch all of Hex and two episodes of Demons so my judgement is not quite what it should be.
No worries. With shows i'm not really into it can be pot-luck as to which i'll bother with for more than the first four-ish episodes though I do have an unfortunate completist streak which makes it difficult to drop a show once i'm more than 6-8 episodes in (which is why UK shows are handy that way - the series will end after 6-8 and I just won't bother to seek out the next series, job done). Watched all the first series of 'Hex' for instance then didn't go back (and have to cop to the charge of shallowness there too - Christina Cole is so very easy on the eyes and ears ;). 'Primeval' did enough right early on to keep me watching (plus, sucker for time-travel stories) but the high-points went from few and far between to just 'between' so dropping it wasn't too tough.

(one episode was enough of 'Demons' though)
James Marsters, no brainer. And I hope they keep in based in Cardiff. It may be no big to those on that side of the pond, but for me, the location was a huge part of the shows appeal.

If I remember right, the teams HQ was destroyed? That's a huge minus right there, I loved that set. I'll never forgive them for killing off the entire team except for Jack and Gwen, I could never understand why they would break up a group with such great ensemble chemistry. So I have a built in bias against any new team members. They're gonna have to convert me, and they'd better be good. :_)
Series 3 was a whole new ballgame of goodness, I thought, after having been alternately hopeful about and disappointed with the series in the past.

Felicia Day would be super, as noted...really a perfect fit. And Alexis Denisof and Enver as well, might make up a good team
with our two remaining leads.

Somewhat off-topic, I am really loving the new Dr. Who (actors and writing), after being deeply suspicious of Eleven to start. He's like the best of the old Doctors and new series Doctors all rolled up together and more. And Moffat rules. So much fun. A guest appearance by the new Doctor would be terrific.

[ edited by toast on 2010-06-09 13:23 ]
Honestly, Series 3 was the only Torchwood that 'worked' for me, and even that wasn't too great. I'm really, genuinely happy to see it renewed, because I know it has its fans, but I'd really rather not see Whedonites in it, because I just don't see it going anywhere. Just my opinion of course. :)

And there's the new Who question too. Torchwood doesn't really fit in with Matt Smith's Doctor. It'll be interesting to see what they'll do.
In what sense MattK ? It fits with him as well as it fit with 10 surely (after 9 was the first to meet Jack) ?

Somewhat off-topic, I am really loving the new Dr. Who (actors and writing), after being deeply suspicious of Eleven to start. He's like the best of the old Doctors and new series Doctors all rolled up together and more.

Agreed toast, Smith's been excellent, recognisably him but still a genuinely new take even though he's also clearly sometimes referencing the lower digits in some instances (it's surely not by accident that whenever we see an onscreen depiction of him - e.g. in photographs etc. - it tends to appear as William Hartnell) - that's the beauty of the character, the more things change the more they stay the same ... and the more they change ;). His physicality in particular is wonderfully detailed and well-observed (like his "fingers" riff or the way he leans too close when thinking or the way he doesn't make eye contact in peculiar ways and at peculiar times - he plays that "like us but not of us" just slightly off quality brilliantly).

And he's a bit more proper too, more old fashioned, less flirtatious than 9 and 10, watching this incarnation interact with Jack could be pretty entertaining.
I think so too, Saje, those very differences in Smith's doctor could make the interactions with Jack just great.
New Who has been sublime. The quality of the series has just been way ahead of any of the Russel T. Davis years, of which only the specials were a real let down. Matt Smith is really excellent in the role. When we briefly saw him in the Christmas episode I was thinking he seemed to be just more of the same, but he really has made the role his own; distinctly the Doctor, but with his own mannerisms and quirks. It is just disappointing that this series seems to be rushing by, as we are only about three episodes from the end now.

I really, really loved 'Children of the Earth'. In fact, it was probably my favourite Who-verse story I had seen. Before then, I had enjoyed Torchwood, even the mostly hated series 1. Series 2 was definitely better though and it really found its feet, bringing some great ideas to explore. Nothing particularly original, but it was all handled so well and it was fantastic to see a British genre show that was actually aimed at an adult audience. 'Children of Earth' brought that to a new level.

I just hope that Starz doesn't get too much creative control over the project. I don't really know anything about them, except for Spartacus: Blood and Sand, which I'm not that keen on. I wouldn't want to see Torchwood head in that direction (again.)

Of course, these fears are probably unwarranted. Russel T. Davis is still heading the writing team and I am sure he will be able to do what is right for the show. The fact that Barrowman and Myles will be staying is a good sign that things won't be completely changed.

As for people I would want to see, Marsters is an obvious choice and I'm sure he will be there, as long as commitments to Caprica or anything else doesn't get in the way. Really, anyone they mention in that article would be fantastic to have on board. I could imagine Katee Sackhoff being great in an episode or two.
I did mean the new seasons of Primeval. after all, international partnership saved Abby and Connor from being trapped in the past. and yes, the show is quite terrible in a lot of aspects and completely ridiculous but I still love it. Andrew Lee Potts is pretty much to blame, though I've grown to love all the characters.

and since we're talking about doctor who, I must say, I'm not particularly impressed with Eleven. I mean, I do like him, but haven't liked his stories very much. I'm still waiting to be impressed, I think.

I'm partly excited for new torchwood cause I miss RTD. unlike so many fans, I do not subscribe to the church of Moffat.
Torchwood heading in the direction of Spartacus is exactly what I want to see. The darker, sexier, and more dangerous it gets the happier I will be. Starz and Torchwood is the best combination ever!
@TamaraC - They did the sexier, swearier stuff in the first season. I thought it was quite good, but it certainly got much, much better when it moved away from that.
We will have to disagree about that, Vandelay. The show was better after the uneven first season, but getting away from more adult content had nothing to do with it. Better writing did. I want Torchwood to be a very very adult show which is why I am so pleased that it is being co-financed by Starz. I hope they push the envelope to the point of breaking it. I'm hoping it will have to be edited to air on BBC1.

[ edited by TamaraC on 2010-06-09 19:52 ]
Said from the start of 'Torchwood', swearing and sex are only broadly related to being an adult show IMO (for instance Jack's choice in "Children of Earth" was the most adult the show has ever been IMO and sex/swearing didn't even feature). Some adult shows have sex, swearing and violence, some don't (and some shows have all three and still aren't - there's a difference between being a show unsuitable for children and being a show worthy of adult attention). Showing sex/cursing/violence or pushing the envelope just for the sake of doing it is, IMO, about as far from adult as it's possible to get, juvenile is how i'd describe it in fact.

And if we only get an edited version on the BBC (i.e. no provision is made for us to watch it uncut in a later timeslot) I for one will be extremely pissed off. We've paid for it after all, making us pay again (by buying a DVD for instance) to see an unedited version is taking the piss, so much so that I very much doubt it'll happen - not only would it be a very questionable use of the licence fee (at a time when it's under increasing attack) but it also doesn't seem in keeping with either Russell T Davies or Julie Gardner's MO up to now.
"The show was better after the uneven first season, but getting away from more adult content had nothing to do with it. Better writing did."

That is certainly true. I wouldn't disagree with that. Having said that, I'm not really sure we can hold Spartacus up as a show that demonstrates how to use the adult content in a well written way. Although I have only seen the opening two episodes of Spartacus, it seems to be using the teenage boy idea of what "adult" means, rather than actually being a programme for adults. One of the things that really separated the first and second series of Torchwood is that it started to use its material much more maturely, rather than just to look edgy. 'Children of Earth' did this to a much greater extent (although its prime time BBC1 slot meant it probably wasn't allowed to have as much on screen sex/swearing/violence, so it was less of an issue,) and they crafted a story that contained many more adult themes and fears. Hopefully they will be building upon that as they go forward with this.

"Showing sex/cursing/violence or pushing the envelope just for the sake of doing it is, IMO, about as far from adult as it's possible to get, juvenile is how i'd describe it in fact."

Absolutely. Although, sometimes there is nothing wrong with being a bit juvenile. The problem here is that Torchwood has shown it can be much more than juvenile fun, so I would like to see it carry on being more mature.

As for editing it to air, I'm not too sure what the policies are at the moment. When it comes to comedy, the BBC seem to have tightened up a lot on what can be said. You hear the beeper going off all the time on those comedy panel shows nowadays, particularly ever since the whole "haunted Queen's pussy" thing. "Fuck" has definitely become a barrier for them, when it doesn't seem so long ago that only "the BIG C" wasn't aired (even that would be used once or twice.) I expect the regulations are very different for drama. Still, I would imagine that anything being aired on BBC1 would have to meet stricter guidelines compared to any of the other BBC channels. As 'Children of Earth' was a BBC1 programme, series 4 will probably go out their. Then again, they did make 'Children of Earth' as a special event, so maybe a regular series would go back to its BBC2 position.

Also, I'm not too sure how serious TamaraC was being there. :)
Showing sex/cursing/violence or pushing the envelope just for the sake of doing it is, IMO, about as far from adult as it's possible to get, juvenile is how i'd describe it in fact.


Must... Resist... True Blood mockery! I tease because I love you, my Truebie friends - you go ahead and enjoy your vampire porn, I won't judge. I thought the start of Torchwood was godawful to start (Cyberwoman? Really?), but enjoyed the back half of S1 and chunks of S2. Though I have my gripes about it, CoE was really well done and gutsy in large part and loom forward to S4. The new Who may the best series of the show ever, IMO, and I've been watching since the early eighties.
I'm sure Saje is right and whatever they air on Starz will be whatever is acceptable on BBC1. Vandelay, Spartacus grows by leaps and bounds from the first few eps to the end. Keeps the cussing, gore and nakedness though. Ads to it in fact. It just becomes so much more than that, by Jupiter's cock.

I don't really think TW will be as graphic as Spartacus nor that it needs to or should be. I am just sick of the FCC and the PTC regulating and bitching about our shows over here and I want more shows that are definitely only for adults in the US.

I do love my vampire porn, zeitgeist and am so glad it is back this Sunday. :)
Although I have only seen the opening two episodes of Spartacus, it seems to be using the teenage boy idea of what "adult" means, rather than actually being a programme for adults.

Yes and no Vandelay. 'Spartacus' IS incredibly violent and stuffed to the gunwhales with sex and swearing but in that instance there's at least a rationale behind it in that they're presenting a time where anything went, the whole point of it is that they had no boundaries, that it was a society of excess. Added to that, it features combat to the death with edged weapons in pretty much every episode - the reality of that isn't the balletic beauty and grace of River vs Reavers from 'Serenity', the reality is truly horrific wounds and quite a bit of blood (though obviously not as much as they show - it's also very consciously stylised). And finally the first two episodes are representative of the amount of sex and violence but not of the general quality of the programme (IMO).


You hear the beeper going off all the time on those comedy panel shows nowadays, particularly ever since the whole "haunted Queen's pussy" thing. "Fuck" has definitely become a barrier for them, when it doesn't seem so long ago that only "the BIG C" wasn't aired (even that would be used once or twice.)

It's more since the whole Ross/Brand "Sachsgate" thing I think, since then they're much more sensitive about swearing and adult content (because all the tiny minded little Englanders used it as an opportunity to press for a general tightening of standards and unfortunately because Ross and Brand actually did overstep the line in most people's opinions, the BBC didn't have a leg to stand on), particularly in the 9-10 pm slot i.e. just post watershed where previously 9pm was a hard and fast cut-off into adult programming, now it's slightly greyer. After that they were under much more scrutiny and so Frankie Boyle gets raked over the coals for something he probably could've said with impunity 6 months earlier (because it just wouldn't have been noticed). Give us warnings and then let us make up our own minds, I don't need the 'Daily Mail' to tell me what offends me and I don't need anyone else to tell me just to change the channel when I am.

All of which, as I say, at a time when the licence fee is being increasingly questioned and people who're against it will use any lever to try and exert pressure on dear old Auntie. When (and sadly it's more when than if IMO) it goes it'll be a tragedy - it'll never come back and practical effects aside (less niche content for instance), by commercialising the BBC we'll lose a cultural giant and one of the things that make me happy to be British.

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