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July 03 2010

Shawna Trpcic's take on Wonder Woman. In light of DC's recent Wonder Woman costume change, Shawna has posted photos of the Wonder Woman costume designs she created while pitching for Joss' version.

She made several versions, and posted two of them: short skirt and jacket and long pants and boots. Can someone please give DC Shawna's phone number?

I'm still quite bitter about Joss's Wonder Woman never seeing the light of day. I can imagine his take on Wonder Woman having a lot in common with Mal Reynolds, and I think it would have been fantastic.
I love all of these options better than the current options. An with Joss at the helm I wouldn't be so worried that I costume change meant a complete character change.
I still think this woman has the greatest last name ever. LOL. Boy, I bet that one is a thrill when people have to pronounce it.
Sorry, lets get this straight. That wasn't Wonderwoman.
I think the new costume's an improvement over the old (which was, even by super-hero standards, fairly ridiculous in this day and age - the "star spangled" element in particular harks back to a more simplistic bygone age). Not at all convinced about the new origin story though (unless the idea is she eventually sets out on a quest to restore Themyscira, maybe by navigating a way through her own continuity as with Batman). I don't read it though so don't have much of an idea where they're going with it.

As to Ms Trpcic's take, I quite like the second one on the first link (except 'The Matrix' kind of ruined long flowing coats for the forseeable future ;) but the others don't do much for me. Still, both of those are intended to be slight updates for a movie wherein she should still be entirely recognisable so not really comparable to an entire character makeover.
I actually heard a bit of the Joss movie pitch (not from Joss) and I have to say - it kind of rocked my inner geek. Damn shame it didn't happen.

PS: Shawna rocks. I'd hire her.
Anyone willing to lay odds, that they might come crawling back to Joss to do WW if Avengers is a hit?
Interesting designs
I really like the one that added the cool long pants to the red boots and midriff baring bustier. (I'd wear those pants!) The addition of practical knee pads were a nice touch and she kept one decorative star, which, although I was never big on the American Flag look, is too iconic to dispense with completely. (Is it too unpatriotic of me to dis her old outfit today?) Plus, she added the bonus feature of the gravity defeating straps. They make ME feel so much more more at ease and secure just looking at her. (I have my my own bad associations with a personal wardrobe malfunction. We must never talk about it.) To me that design of Shawna's feels like the outfit of a confident woman, a warrior. Great hair too. The whole outfit is updated, less "What woman would ever voluntarily wear that?", and it yet still manages to feel like Wonder Woman--while the new DC version really does NOT.
Ooh, I like the coat.
Eh, the coats nice-- but it's been done to death. Maybe I think this because it's black. If you make it red and blue, we can talk. I just think those colors are too associated with her to jettison. (Not RED red. Think of Jada Pinkett Smith's Niobe character in The Matrix Reloaded and her red leather(?) suit.) I also think it's a mistake to have the coat be so plain. Wonder Woman's costume has always been one of fine details and matching accessories. Possibly adding some character appropriate embroidery to the coat a la Alexander McQueen's last collection would help the design feel more Wonder Woman-y to me. (Check out number one and two.) But the overgrown spats have just got to go.
I would see the WW movie if any of these designs were to be used. As it stands, however, I refuse to pay money for the complete destruction of a comic icon.
I've read a zillion comics, a bunch of which were superhero comics, and maybe three or four of which were actually Wonder Woman comics (I was drunk.) All Wonder Woman outfits are ridiculous because mainstream superhero comics just can't get away from the tradition of titillation and WW essentially fights crime in lingerie. I don't like either of these costumes either. The high heels don't work, obviously; yes she's had high heels forever but I would think fighting crime in high heels is difficult. The one on the left is the usual lingerie. The one on the right with the Matrix, no, a thousand times no, that would have people laughing at the screen in the theaters (and of course she's flashing us some leg underneath the coat.) Wonder Woman is (supposed to be) a warrior from a throwback ancient Greek culture. Give her a Hoplite warrior outfit then--something like Xena wore, actually, but in Wonder Woman's colors. Dump the ridiculous bracelets and the rope (her creator, William Moulton Marston, liked his S&M) and give her a shield instead. Alex Ross gave her a shield in Kingdom Come, and Darwyn Cooke did something very like the hoplite/Xena outfit in New Frontier, and that was one of the very few times in her sixty year career that Wonder Woman hasn't looked like a stripper fighting crime on her lunch break.

People keep saying WW is a role model for little girls. I shudder at the thought, but if that's true, and there is going to be a movie, how about we don't get the first female comic book superhero on the big screen fighting crime in underwear and high heels.
@Hellmouthguy - I am right there with you. I couldn't have said it better.

....Although I do love Shawna's work, just not for WW.
@Hellmouthguy: I completely agree.

Shawna's work has been great so far, but I do not see these designs working at all.

Here's the first believable, Hoplite Wonder Woman design I've encountered:

The artist also has some great conceptualizations of Wonder Woman:

This is what Trpcic should have gone for. The Matrix coat is fairly ridiculous, especially with the cleavage just bursting out to further perpetuate the sexual objectification stance which has rendered Wonder Woman much more the blatant representation of male fetishist fantasies than an inspirational character for young women. The Hoplite design is recognizable and for the most part, fairly believable (No high heels, shocking!) and dare I say, actually attractive versus the awful flag-panties.

[ edited by Pete on 2010-07-04 16:36 ]
I really like the pants version, and I'm very much hoping Joss and company can get back on board for the movie.
NotLikeCousteau, I love those pics, they're perfect across the board. The outfit looks like someone could actually fight while wearing it, it has enough of WW's traditional colors/design to be iconic, and it doesn't hide her beauty. (Cobie Smulders helps in that department of course.) Absolute home run for a Wonder Woman outfit.
The star spangled element is not from a simplistic by gone age. It's important in that it represents liberty & freedom, can't see WW without it!!
I still like the forth design with the pants. There are no high heels. Regardless of the creators mind, the bracelets and rope are essential to who Wonder Woman is. They make her different from other superheros. In this case, the bracelets look more like vambraces (arm guards) which is cool, since that is essentially their function even with their souped up magic element. They are more mobile than a shield, allow the full use of both hands, double as sort of jewelry (she's female and she inherited them ~_^), plus no other superhero has them. (I think...) And why does a rope immediately translate to S&M? It was really used more as a cowboy would use a rope. (If you know, it could could compel the cow to tell the truth about...something cows would feel the need to lie about and that was for some reason, deemed crucial to stopping...something very,very bad.) No one cries S&M when they see Indiana Jones and his whip.

I really think the forth design conveys a nice mixture of practicality, modernity, strength, and woman--all while still feeling like we're looking at Wonder Woman. The straps could be a little thicker though. ~_^ (Yes, I'm scared for life and no, I'm really not going to talk about it.)
Coming to it totally clean, yeah, the rope could mean anything and it's pretty in keeping with the sorts of gifts from the gods that are common in Greek mythology. But early on Wonder Woman was forever being tied up and it's fairly widely known that Marston was a bit kinky and apparently liked a bit of bondage (which, as I understand it BTW, isn't the same as S&M - Sadism and Masochism - which usually involves pain too). AFAIK, the same isn't true of Steven Spielberg ;).

The star spangled element is not from a simplistic by gone age. It's important in that it represents liberty & freedom, can't see WW without it!!

Well, now you can ;).

(as to the "star spangled" element, it actually represents the USA which isn't where she's from. And no offence - particularly today of all days, happy 4th of July over the pond chums ;) - but America being completely, unequivocally synonymous with liberty and freedom kind of is from a bygone age IMO, the world and the US' place in it have become more complicated. It made sense when Wonder Woman - along with many other super-hero characters - was partly a propaganda tool during WWII, now not so much)

I quite like the hoplite style costume, that would've been a fine choice for the traditional character. Doesn't really fit this version though (she's raised in New York as I understand it so a more urban look seems appropriate). And if you want to talk objectification BTW, I have to say, taking one woman's head and putting it on another woman's body isn't exactly right at the bottom of my own list in that regard (those kind of manips kind of weird me out a bit).
I still like the star spangled hot pants though. There's somethings you can't deny.

Wait, are those hormones speaking again? 'whips out whip'. Back you little beastlies!
Saje, those manipulations give me the wiggins as well, and they're certainly not on the bottom of any list regarding modern forms of objectification. In this case however, and I am still not condoning the practice, it at least fit a purpose of artistic intent, i.e., conceptualizing a live-action version of a comic superheroine, rather than serving to titillate potential consumers, such as the case where Eliza Dushku has now twice been photo manipulated on the Dollhouse DVD covers.
Changing WW's costume? Not exactly new. I used to read it when she dressed like Emma Peel.

Karate Wonder Woman
NotLikeCousteau, I love that "Xena meets Wonder Woman" look! It looks authentic, like something a warrior from that island would actually wear. And the eagle no longer looks like an "American" eagle, which is nice. I'd only suggest closed-toe boots because the way it is, it would hurt kicking in a door and getting splinters.
but clearly there is a reason why the stars have been a mainstay.
Will.bueche she can kick with the ball of her foot to avoid breaking her toes! Thus open toe is good, and in this season! Ahem, so yeah i like the 4th image and the new WW is't that terrible, except maybe looks like she's going shopping with Paris Hilton, not saving the world!
I agree, Saje, the US as synonymous with liberty and freedom feels a bit bygone to me as well.

Joss at the helm of WW as a result of the box office-smashing success of The Avengers, wouldn't that be just beyond awesome? Silly, silly studio whoevers that nixed the project.

I'm all for some new WW designs, and nothing's wrong with a little sexy. A little, I say. Too-tall heels and the like are just kinda dumb. And I'll take a trench coat over excessive titillation.
I like the Jim Lee redesign that DC's accepted, but the red-with-black-lines-down-it top makes her look like something associated with to Spider-Man or just Marvel superheroes in general, whether we're talking Spider-Woman or Madame Web.

Wouldn't ditch the truth lasso just because a lotta folks might associate it with S&M/bondage (so should Buffy get rid of her stake because it could be viewed as phallic?). Caught the direct-to-DVD animated Wonder Woman (from 2008, great origin story, possibly my favorite of the DC-direct-to-DVDs so far) a couple weeks ago and that element was a ton of fun (from making villains talk to forcing pilot-and-eventual-lover Steve Trevor to share his thoughts). Would imagine if Joss or another quality writer were behind the eventual film, they'd be able to work into the plot some very interesting/poignant/stick-it-to-the-man scenes (or maybe just one really good climactic one) of Diana forcing someone to reveal something huge.

The bullet-deflecting bracelets, yeah, they could maybe come up with something a little more live-action-believable/buyable (she can wear 'em for decorative purposes/personal wardrobe preference, but they don't necessarily have to deflect bullets, not sure how that'd play in "real"-vision).

In the Justice League cartoon, in the 2-parter where they believe Clark's died, Diana wears her "official business"/Themyscira garb, complete with headress, to Superman's public funeral. Looked cool, not at all modern (good thing in Diana's case, IMO), but I dunno how practical it would've been to fight in.

The black coat is...yeah, done to death, sorry Shawna. The Matrix, the Underworld films, Angel and Spike, tons's done for a while, please ?

Faint air of "near-nudity=whore/inappropriate, therefore=poor role model" in this thread. Don't buy it, character's worth isn't purely tied up in what they wear (or even a significant portion of their worth, IMO, if any). I'll grant those with this mindset that the character might be the laughing stock of superhero movie adaptations if she went out there in her star-spangled panties (could it be much worse than the Halle Catwoman though?) and that the American flag look probably wouldn't play well internationally, but criticism of the former is mainly due to the majority of the moviegoing public (myself included) and the media being super-critical and usually unable/unwilling to resist the opportunity to take shots at a property or actor. Looking at a live action Wonder Woman in her traditional costume isn't gonna automatically turn little girls "bad" or reduce the potential value of WW as a role model. I think when we worry about things like this, it often comes off as just a whole lotta sanctimonious bullshit. "Oh no! Janey's gonna see Diana in panties and a gold bra and start dressing and acting like a whore, she'll be ruined!" Nine times outta ten, I think respecting and valuing one's self comes down to what parents instill (or fail to instill) in their children and what the general public chooses to accept as reasonable and "allowed" cultural icons/behaviours/norms. Covering WW up could justifiably done for reasons of marketability (not wanting most moviegoers to think she looks ridiculous), but as soon as we start getting prudish about the reasons behind the change, it's pointless. Mainstream superhero comics are fun, the characters are designed to appeal to what the average dude (and for a while now, women as well--there are increasingly a ton of hot costumes on superdudes) finds sexually appealing/titillating, and WW wouldn't be purely intended for children the way most Disney films are so...whatever. The burden of upholding feminist ideals (and you'd probably see a significant portion of self-described feminists arguing for the "right"/production decision of WW to wear her original-or-close-to-it outfit over something that'd cover her up more) shouldn't be placed on the shoulders of frickin Wonder Woman.

Superman, Batman, and most other male DC & Marvel superheroes are clothed in skin tight leather and/or spandex, one could see that as being intended for gay fetish and/or unattainable straight fanboy vicarious wish fulfillment. Does this make all the male heroes automatically poor role models ? I never see anyone bitching about Namor in his briefs or swim trunks or Wolverine's clothes often being destroyed in battles/fires. Double standard ?

Another plus side, yes, WW can now enjoy the luxury of extreme clothes rippage in battle the way many of her co-heroes (both male and female) often do, in order to denote "battle damage" when the comic, film, or cartoon are too squeamish to show bruising or blood.

[ edited by Kris on 2010-07-05 04:25 ]
Lets not count our eggs in a basket just yet.
Kris, the criticism about WW being barely clothed has nothing to do with moral puritanism (at least for this feminist and I suspect many others), it's to do with the perception that women's primary value lies in how they look and how closely they conform to a distorted patriarchal ideal of what a sexy woman should look like.

Yes maybe the male superheroes also have tight costumes but the difference is that they are male, they exist in a partiarchal society and they are not seen, first and foremost, as a object. You can huff and puff all you want about this but speak to any woman in the western world about the pressure to look a certain way and you might start to realise how different it can be to have the privilege of living in a male body. Women and men are not equal in this society.

It is important to have reasonably dressed women being role models, do you really want girls growing up to think they can be a hero but only if they dress in a way that will get men's slobbering approval? Do you really think that a girl's sexuality should revolve around how provocatively she can dress and how many men want to wank over her?
I get the whole "cover up" idea and the one that's like "she's not a bad role model for showing skin" aspect too. And to be honest let's be practical here; the flag pants were silly but they do offer much better movement than skinny jeans! If those are actually leggings/tights, then that is not what I want my kid(hypothetical kid) watching and wanting to wear either! I've seen girls that walk around in just that and it's way worse than wearing short shorts.
Looking sexy is also not of primary importance with her being thin, that's also practical for her job, she's fit and does cardio, one leads to another.Now the curves are for viewing pleasures!
I'm okay with the outfits, i think that the old one is outdated and silly looking, the new one, although not quite superheroic just yet, has potential! They just need to make it more practical!
Digupherbones, amen.

The idea is not at all primarily about covering up her sexuality, but rather creating believability: giving her realistic and iconic protective clothes that an Amazon warrior would wear. I am in complete support of a woman's freedom to express her sexuality as she pleases, but this does not detract from the blatant objectification of women and men in the comic book world. Heck, just look at some of Jo Chen's covers for Season Eight.

The flag-panties are outdated, and would simply not work in a serious live-action film, especially not in a character centric epic which Whedon is noted for. The Hoplite design is believable and actually quite attractive; it maintains all of the recognizable aspects of Wonder Woman's traditional costume from the color scheme, to the stars, the eagle, and the bracelets, while portraying as much authenticity of an Amazonian as possible within the realms of fiction. I would have personally given her more protection around the shoulders and knees, but the design as it stands seems very agile and combat-ready without at all covering up Diana's body. That is what I would want my daughter to see: a Wonder Woman who is authentic, a complex character who is not defined by titillation, whose sexual appeal is found in her heroism, her resourcefulness, her control over her own body, and her "indomitable will." Wasn't that where Joss wanted to go with Buffy? With Zoe? I would want my daughter to realize that dressing the way she pleases is alright, as long as she understands critically how it is viewed by others and its consequences, but also that as long as she views herself as a free human being and has control over her body, she can do no wrong. If a live-action pantie-wearing Wonder Woman was released, I would gladly take her to see it and then discuss extensively what she thought of the adaptation and how the costume and character were handled. Let's not forget that every individual has a right to their own opinion.

[ edited by NotLikeCousteau on 2010-07-05 15:59 ]
Nowadays they say the Wonder Woman of post crisis isn't even a person. She's a mystical beast made up by gods to blend in with humanity but she's not real. And she's a secret agent again who doesn't wear the original costume cuz it brings too much attention. Wonder Woman in the "Emma Peel" get up of the 1970s is Diana Prince, and not Wonder Woman.

You either make this a serious period piece done in the 1940s dealing with the bondage issues inherent in the original source material, or it becomes a modern day farcical send-up. I see no halfway point here.

The comic book costume is clearly insipid for vigilante justice. It's solely for looks. If she's to be an ambassador for Amazon Island, you could jokingly establish that based on their research into the Man's World, her costume was no more flamboyant than what women wear on the covers of fashion magazines. However, a respectful character would dress more like Rachel Maddow or Christiane Amanpour when addressing the countries of the world, but any story w/o the original costume is not going to be taken seriously, and any story w/her in the original costume is going to be a joke. This is a lose/lose no matter how we slice it.

Joss Whedon was lucky to get out while the getting was good.
"You are a wonder, my daughter". The Wonder Womanish character in Planetary #10 is worth considering. And indeed in the Planetary/JLA one-shot where the character was actually Wonder Woman. I would have loved to sene where Ellis was going with her. Cassaday's designs were good as well.
I think the best take on a Wonder Woman-ish character in the history of comics--in fact the best female superhero ever, period--has to be Alan Moore's Promethea.
no understanding of us history.
Care to expand on that, Wheels ?
no thank you, not feeling well. Hope they don't drop America from Captain America! :)
Heh, c'mon. Now you're just goading. The property is being developed and advertised as Captain America, they're not altering it. I can see them giving him a kind of story that might attempt to make him more relevant to the rest of the world (maybe something to do with America-as-an-idea/America-when-it's-at-its-best-as-an-ideal, how Steve Rogers sees the world, used to see it, etc), whether that'd be the right or wrong move, I dunno. Should they just go balls-to-the-wall, unabashed, gratuitous-without-brains, cheerleadering patriotism ? Or something more self-reflective ?

Don't see a lack of understanding of U.S. history in this thread. In relation to Wonder Woman, I think folks summed up the motivations for her creation pretty accurately, from what I've read about her and her creator.
Alex Ross. "Kingdom Come". Wonder Woman. Star-Spangled outfit for daily wear, golden armor for full-on battle. 'nuff said (oh, wait, that was that other comic company's catch phrase.)

Anyway, if they're not gonna go with Ross' version, I like the pics NotLikeCousteau posted. (Sidebar: you don't kick open doors with your toes, you use the flat of your foot. Yes, I've done it. No, I won't go into details...)
Where'd you go for a year ? Just lurking ?
Pretty much, and not a lot of that. Took a new job, bought a house, screwed up my last working knee during the move-in, lost two family members... basically had enough drama in Real Life that I wasn't doing much more than skimming headlines.
Ah. Sorry to hear about the losses and injury, congrats on the new job and house, and welcome back and all that.

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