This blog is pretty much already what I do with my life.

lookitsjulia | July 06, 07:50 CET

Wasn't the whole point of the vengeful Chumash spirit that he was a vengeful spirit who actually had an extremely good reason for being vengeful (and as a result let them examine both White Liberal Guilt and the extent of inter-generational culpability - i.e. actual guilt - at the same time) ? As with a lot of things in the Buffyverse it was just a real-world idea seen through the lens of metaphor. Didn't strike me as particularly offensive, is that a common perspective ?

As to the fashion stuff itself, I got nothing.

Saje | July 06, 09:46 CET

I think the main criticism of the race issues in "Pangs" seem to be that it only pays lip service to the idea that the Chumash spirit had a legitimate reason for being angry, and in the end the spirit becomes nothing but a one-dimensional bad guy to be slain. For example, could you imagine a story where a German slayer fights and defeats a a vengeful Jewish spirit and it's all mostly played for laughs?

I don't think "Pangs" is the most offensive race-related blunder in Whedonverse, but I do think that it seriously fails to deliver the message that it claims to possess and comes across just as an excuse to play with Native American mythology.

ruuger | July 06, 10:59 CET

Wow, the most offensive thing in the Bufyverse to me was that blog! If we're all gonna get offended then how bout i get offended by the old Irish scenes! so what!? It's a tv show. And how bout that 'lesbian hair' comment? THat was just rude!

BlueSkies | July 06, 11:11 CET

I think the main criticism of the race issues in "Pangs" seem to be that it only pays lip service to the idea that the Chumash spirit had a legitimate reason for being angry, and in the end the spirit becomes nothing but a one-dimensional bad guy to be slain.

I can see that I guess but to me it was pretty clear (the whole thing with Buffy and Willow's hesitancy and Spike's old colonial, almost Victorian response was always a big part of the episode to me). And the episode may have been played for laughs but I don't think either the spirit itself or the idea of the genocide particularly were.

Not sure how appropriate the German/Jewish analogy is either (genuinely that is i.e. I think it's an interesting point) because it's so much closer in time. If anything it makes the themes of the episode even more obvious BUT it maybe doesn't allow us sufficient distance to consider it with anything like objectivity (obviously on paper these events should always make us extremely angry in perpetuity but in reality I think it's easier to be angry about something that happened well within living memory, that many of our parents or grandparents may even have been directly involved with in some capacity).

Saje | July 06, 11:20 CET

Not sure how appropriate the German/Jewish analogy is either (genuinely that is i.e. I think it's an interesting point) because it's so much closer in time.

I don't know anything about the Chumash (except what I learned in Buffy) but in Canada at least, the horrors of the residential school system and the stripping away of people's language and identity and the forced separation of families is pretty recent. I'm too lazy to do any research right now (so if you want FACTS or ACTUAL INFORMATION you've come to the wrong place, move along!), but I do know people younger than my grandmother who are deeply damaged by what they were put through. That's not genocide, it's what came after, but nonetheless it's hard to look around this country much and conclude that atrocities against native peoples are far in the past. I'm not sure the German / Jewish analogy rings so false, in other words. At least, I read ruuger's post and had a definite "What ruuger said!" feeling.

That said, I wasn't really offended by Pangs, but a wee bit eye-rolly. The comedy in the ep was fantastic, but it did seem like they'd decided to take on a pretty heavy issue, but just came up with something trite.

catherine | July 06, 15:36 CET

And having just skimmed the blog a bit, I'm now very glad nobody writes about what I wear.

< whisper >I really liked the clothes on Buffy, especially Buffy's clothes< /whisper >

catherine | July 06, 15:42 CET

*Whispers back at Catherine* me too...shhhh!!

BlueSkies | July 06, 15:45 CET

Funny blog. Very true about early seasons Buffy dressing as if she's older. I'm always a bit amused by that.

Sunfire | July 06, 15:56 CET

I seldom notice fashions unless it's pointed out to me directly (Topping mentioning Tara's moon-and-stars pants in S-5) so the good, the bad and the garlic kinda blend together for me, but since "Pangs" is mentioned....

In the HIMYM epsidoe "Whooo" Barney Stinson said, "If there were no whoo girls tiny cowboy hats would only be worn by tiny cowboys" and I thought about Buffy in the opening scene, now wondering how intentional it was.

DaddyCatALSO | July 06, 16:41 CET

I'm sure I noticed this before, but isn't the black top Buffy is wearing under her dungarees in "Ted" the same one she wears to fight Angel in "Becoming Pt.2"?

Quite enjoyed reading that. Although I do kinda like some of the outfits being criticised there.

emmy | July 06, 17:20 CET

Dawn's sweater in Lessons and Angel's shirt in Shiny Happy People were pretty bad.

Simon | July 06, 17:30 CET

I used to try and emulate Buffy in junior high/high school. I so badly wanted her wardrobe.

luv4whedon | July 06, 17:47 CET

Great fun. Can't wait to read some analysis of Willow's hats.

moley75 | July 06, 18:11 CET

moley75, if you want to read analysis of Willow's hats, try here :)

ruuger | July 06, 18:30 CET

Oh, thank you rugger, the "Helpless" hats are in a class of their own.

moley75 | July 06, 18:46 CET

catherine: "And having just skimmed the blog a bit, I'm now very glad nobody writes about what I wear."

Oh, gods, me too. I don't usually fall to Willow-Sweater-Level depths, but I've read all of Bitter Buffalo's Buffy fashion blogs so far, and some of the stuff she loathes and abominates I could only aspire to, both then and now.

But Buffy occasionally & oddly dressed as a cougar MILF? Yeah, I have to agree with that. (And as Joss himself pointed out in the episode's DVD commentary, Buffy's "Hush" Pebbles-like eek-eek skirt is a huge motherlovin' WTF?)

It's funny - while I'm not at all a fan of sites that dissect the clothing of actual human beings in the public eye, this Buffy site discussing character fashions truly tickles me. Even when I don't agree with her opinions (I thought this unusual cut looked great on Joyce in "Ted" and I love this Anya outfit from "Pangs") it's clear Robin has an eye for fashion and knows her Buffy-wear. (Though it's important to remember that good fashion should be as much about what looks good on a person as it is what's the latest hip-hop-happen' style.)

I guess I have no problem with these dissections because it can't possibly hurt "Anya's" feelings, or make "Dawn" feel picked on, unlike celebrity-bashing sites. (I mean, seriously?!! - someone has a problem with how Christina Hendricks looks in a dress? Man, they really need to re-think their damage.)

(Although it could conceivably upset the wardrobe designer, they couldn't have been be expected to hit it out of park every episode, especially with just a few days prep time as often happened... and it's so many years after the fact, they can't be as wed to their choices as say, someone is about last month's Tony dress.)

Anyhoo, I've long been a Buffy fashion watcher, and the costumes are as interesting to me as any other production detail. As long past as these episodes are, there are still garments I want and would wear if they were around.

And there are some outfits that make me think of the clothing packages I used to get from my Mom, gods love her, and take straight to Goodwill.

QuoterGal | July 06, 20:54 CET

I JUST recorded a podcast episode on this! Although mine is much more about what the clothing says about the characters rather than how awful they are (even though I'll admit, a bit of complaining is done). It comes out this week even!

AthenaMuze | July 06, 21:12 CET

AthenaMuse that sounds pretty good! I'd much rather hear that! (Character is something that blogger neglected to take into account, which is why I just wasn't interested!)
I know this site has a no self linking rule, but I'm sure one of the rest of us could link it if you put it out there...

BlueSkies | July 06, 21:16 CET

Great find, Simon, hilarious. To this day I will find myself randomly wondering what was up with the suede-a-palooza outfit Buffy wore in the beginning of Hush.

Charmuse | July 06, 21:19 CET

Yeah, Char-ish, that's the Flintstone's Pebbles outfit I refer to in my Clearly-Too-Long-To-Read post above. ; >

Joss even wondered, but alas, as he said, too late.

(And meant to say in my earlier post - for sure, character is clearly the key point to costume design. If you're designing for reasonably fashion-aware contemporary characters, you do have to deal with what's going on in the magazines and the stores - though prolly not the runways so much...)

QuoterGal | July 06, 22:48 CET

LOL, Sorry QG, I just posted off the title after I read some of the blogs....at least I know my distaste is in good company...

Charmuse | July 06, 22:58 CET

Oh! I want to hear a podcast about the character's wardrobes and what they say about the character.

luv4whedon | July 07, 02:04 CET

I think AthenaMuze can link to her own thing within the thread, right? Just not as a front page item?

catherine | July 07, 02:07 CET

Yuppity, she sure can.

QuoterGal | July 07, 03:41 CET

(I mean, seriously?!! - someone has a problem with how Christina Hendricks looks in a dress? Man, they really need to re-think their damage.

Word.

I personally found the clothing on Btvs to be a mix of too weird for words and "Oh wow, I really like that." Sometimes I wondered if the wardrobe dept. went shopping at a thrift store that sold clothing suitable for every generation.

Also, I liked Buffy's little cowboy hat. And Harmony's hair.

menomegirl | July 07, 17:59 CET