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Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"I'd like to keep Spike as my pet."
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July 23 2010

The Joss Whedon Experience kicks off at Comic-Con shortly. No it's not a tribute act, the man himself will be in Ballroom 20 at 3pm PST chatting about all sorts. Give Me My Remote appear to be doing live coverage so try there for updates. Or you could go to Whedonesque on Twitter as we're definitely doing updates there. News so far - Scott Allie will be co-writing the Buffy Season 8 finale and Joss doesn't know what's happening with The Cabin in The Woods. He also expresses interest in doing an epic superhero yaoi tale and decided against the idea of fan funded web work. And Dr Horrible on Rock Band? And is Nathan Fillion Ant Man?

Now I'm contemplating what a tribute act would consist of. Singing Heart (Broken)?
http://www.givememyremote.com/remote/2010/07/23/the-joss-whedon-experience-at-comic-con-live-updates/
Just making the link Apocalypse posted clickable:
http://www.givememyremote.com/remote/2010/07/23/the-joss-whedon-experience-at-comic-con-live-updates/

Nothing from CBR or Newsarama, just checked.
"You might have heard about a little art film that I'm directing, called the Protectors or something"
Scott Allie came to L.A. to write the Buffy S8 finale with Joss. Going to be really really cool.
Cabin in the Woods - hope to be rolling it out SOMETIME in the near future. Don't know waht's going on with it. Might be found in a warehouse with the Rosebud sled.

Jed's album is coming out August 10.

Will he do gay male characters? Wants to write a superhero Yaoi epic, with man on man action. So, yes.
Just a reminder, just like yesterday's Joss/JJ panal, and already other 3 panels today (Caprica with James Marsters, Super with Nathan Fillion and Bones with David Boreanaz), Zeitgeist is (EPICALLY) live tweeting from the Whedonesque twitter account:
www.twitter.com/whedonesque

ETA: Just realized Simon updated main entry while I was posting this comment, making it mostly irrelevant.

[ edited by Numfar PTB on 2010-07-23 23:23 ]
Just realized Simon updated main entry while I was posting this comment


It's all fuelled by adrenalin, Stella Artois and Abba. And a big shoutout to deanna b for her coverage. It's a fab tradition here. I missed the live coverage updates so much.
Will he do a subscription-based web series? Absolutely has, thought about it hard, which led to not doing it. Excited about working with nothing - available light, digital camera. But also likes having everything. But network television, probably not right away. Probably not the NEXT thing.

Long single-shot one-take sequences are like a drug. Dangerous tool, you can't use it frequently, but it sets the scene. Great device if it's not abused, and you best of you can't notice that it's one shot.

Interesting when someone you love does something you don't love. Angel killing Drogyn, Giles killing Ben. Takes a toll.
Yeah. thanks for deanna b for the updates in here. Props!
Hey we got a shout-out!
Ha. Hungry and Whedonesque. The two main distractions in life.

I can relate...
I'm having dinner as i follow this, really.
Process of writing is Fun, Fun, Hunger, Depression, Fun

SOmetimes you just gotta get rid of someone. Sometimes Ron Glass just really makes you mad. The practical reality is sometimes a factor. There was problem with Alan Tudyk in the deal-making, whether he'd be in a sequel, so he killed him. Kristine Sutherland knew for two years that her character would die, and Amber for quite some time. Told Marc Blucas that he was only going to be the first 10 episodes of S5 - "Great! I'll be in 10 more episodes!"
It's nice to know we help him procrastinate.
Had shot an apocalypse in Dollhouse, when he was certain they were going to be cancelled. So how to build to the apocalypse?

Would he ever do something epic like Hush or OMWF in a comic book? Death of Captain Marvel. Really dicey, your relationship with the artist has to be really tight. Hush and OMWF made sense in context of their worlds, B&W wouldn't, except Spike's part in a dream. In comics he doesn't want to do an experimental stunt that would push a boundary. A stunt is only as good as the stunt performer. It's tricky.
Deanna_B and Zeitgeist rule--benevolently!

ETA A thousand thank yous to youse two!

[ edited by Pointy on 2010-07-24 00:01 ]
Dr. Horrible - Joss interested more in villains than heroes.

Roseanne - wrote lots of spec scripts, last one was for Roseanne. Write for shows that inspire you. Joss likes to look for writers who can do both great comedy spec scripts and great drama when hiring.

Read Spider=Man, Avengers, then came Frank Miller, Dark Knight, Watchman. Managed to be exactly the right age for each comic. Also read Heavy Metal, mostly for the boobies.
Nathan Fillion in disguise asked him if he had any favorite actors. Sunglasses, hat, phony mustache.
Wish I'd seen that.
How did Joss recognize Nathan from that far away? There was a certain raw sexuality and a desperate need for affirmation that could only be... Nathan Fillion.
End of panel.
"The hammer is my penis"
Thanks for doing this write up deanna b and thanks to Zeitgeist as well.
Can't wait to see the Fillion reveal on Youtube.
What? I don't like the idea of Scott Allie writing the Buffy finale with Joss. This is weird. Do not like.
I'm certainly intrigued by that, Riker. Especially... didn't Allie once say the characters didn't really work with his style of writing? But hey, if Joss trusts him, I'll be interested to see what happens.
Wow, that was fast.
Not much news, but a lot of full flavored Joss-ness. Plus Nathan Fillion. And of course: SHOUT-OUT!

Went by too fast, it deserved to be longer.
That. Was. Epic.
I wonder if Scott co-writing it is due to Joss's Avenger's gig.
What? I don't like the idea of Scott Allie writing the Buffy finale with Joss. This is weird. Do not like.


Joss did write the Angel finale with Jeff Bell. That went alright.
Aww, now i'm all sad again, it almost felt like i was there! Oh well, we got a semi Dr.H and Firefly reunion(not really, just Joss and NF, but it gives me a happy regardless!).
Also, why not like the extra contributor for the finale?
Indeed. And given how Joss is about doling out credit where it's due, I don't think he'd put his name on it unless he really did have a lot to do with it.
"What? I don't like the idea of Scott Allie writing the Buffy finale with Joss. This is weird. Do not like."

Me neither.

*weeps* an there's me thinking it couldn't get much worse. :(
Joss didn't even write the Dollhouse finale, Epitaph2 was all J-Mo, if I remember correctly, right?
uh what

When did THIS happen? Nathan confirmed as Ant-Man?

EDIT: *weeps* an there's me thinking it couldn't get much worse. :(

A) Joss is still a co-writer, it's not like he's handing the project over to Allie completely.
B) Allie has not written Buffy a single time that I recall. We have no idea how he'll do.
C) You might wanna just accept that you don't like season 8... it's starting to feel like every last thing is a harbinger of its complete and utter failure.

[ edited by Jobo on 2010-07-24 00:03 ]
Toss me in with those who A)are Wondering why Allie's co-writing and B)aren't happy about it. Not even from a shipper perspective. Just some of his answers rubbed me the wrong way in previous interviews for me to feel comfortable with him at the helm.


That said, can we PLEASE get the Joss-penned yaoi-action flick? Please? I'll beg. I'll do a lot more than beg. Make it happen!
"Not even from a shipper perspective. Just some of his answers rubbed me the wrong way in previous interviews for me to feel comfortable with him at the helm."

Dear god, ditto.

"You might wanna just accept that you don't like season 8... it's starting to feel like every last thing is a harbinger of its complete and utter failure."

Not quite everything..*g* Yet.....

[ edited by sueworld2003 on 2010-07-24 00:08 ]
The Ant-Man thing I'm seeing conflicting reports, there are reports making it sound like a done deal, others saying that Joss wants Nathan to be Ant-Man, only as his personal choice, not something that has been confirmed.
Allie has not written Buffy a single time that I recall. We have no idea how he'll do.


Wikipedia sez "He [Scott] also wrote the Buffy short stories "The Ghosts of Slayers Past" and "Alone" for the Tales of the Slayer collection."
I'm sure there is going to be an interview coming from somewhere in the next few days where either Joss or Scott Allie talk about how he came to be co-writer of the last arc.

I still think it's due to Joss Avengers workload.Remember last fall,they didn't even know if Joss would be able to write the final arc at all.And that was before he got the Avengers job(and remember that includes writing and directing the Avengers and doing a re-write on Captain America).
I really wish the people who didn't like Season 8 would stop saying so. Repeating it with new words every time a thread pops up about it is just...why? Or, what Jobo said.
Wikipedia sez "He [Scott] also wrote the Buffy short stories "The Ghosts of Slayers Past" and "Alone" for the Tales of the Slayer collection."

Ah, my bad. Has anyone actually read those, though? I just don't see a reason to proclaim this bad news simply 'cause he's not Joss.
It always amuses me when people hate Scott Allie. I've read numerous interviews with the man, I've seen him in person, I've never been rubbed the wrong way.

Anyway, this sounds like it was a wonderful panel. Thanks, deannab, for covering it here, and thanks to zeitgeist1975 for covering it on Twitter.
Ah, my bad. Has anyone actually read those, though? I just don't see a reason to proclaim this bad news simply 'cause he's not Joss.
Maybe I should do that, I got the copies of the books a friend lent me on the shelf for a while already.
"I really wish the people who didn't like Season 8 would stop saying so."

Hey last time I looked it wasn't a 'positive comments only area'. *g*
Hey last time I looked it wasn't a 'positive comments only area'. *g*

I think the frustration comes, on the positive side, because it seems like every S8-related news only gets comments along the lines on, "Another nail in the S8 coffin" from the negative camp, instead of actual discussion of the issues. The actual comic threads themselves have been pretty good, because the naysayers tend to go in-depth about the problems they have with the comics, which to me seems like fair ground. But it just gets repetitive to read, in other topics, that Georges' latest comments spell the end of the Buffyverse once and for all and etc.
People like us not agreeing with the 'hive mind' on here doesn't stop the rest of you singing it's praises, does it now. :)

[ edited by sueworld2003 on 2010-07-24 00:28 ]
I'm not sure that's quite what I was saying. Just that, at least personally, I don't have an issue with people disliking and even voicing their dislike of S8, as long as they're doing so through discussion of the subject matter (Dana would be, in my mind, a shining example of someone I pretty regularly disagree with, but who never fails to make reasonable points). But a lot of recent posts have simply been dismissing the series, reiterating what's already been said. Obviously you're allowed to, as the mods haven't deleted any of it. I'm just saying, it's more interesting if we say things that are able to be discussed, rather than just, "Well, season 8 has no hope now."
I know Joss'sir Con announcements for the coming year are always glee worthy but I am currently honestly concerned that world wide spontaneous human combustion would occur if anyone allowed him to do a yaoi action flick. Which of course doesn't mean I dont want to see it absolutelyrightnow

...please
Joss said that his often casual notice of deadlines would sometimes make Allie want to slit his wrists, so now that Joss has other things demanding his attention, Allie came out to L.A. to help speed up the job of writing. The ideas are Joss', but Allie is helping with dialogue, pacing, etc.
Let's talk some more about this Ant Man thing that's now blowing up twitter. If you go back to the very first Ant Man tweets ~45 minutes ago, many in the audience seemed to think Joss was joking (including EW's Doc Jensen).

deanna b, what was your take?

[ edited by karosurly on 2010-07-24 00:36 ]
Jobo, If you wanna word my posts for me have at it. I'm in too much pain tonight to spend ages typing lengthy replies sadly.
I really couldn't tell whether or not he was serious about NF as Ant Man, but I figured it was probably joking. It seemed like a throwaway line rather than an announcement, but I may be mistaken. *shrug*
The Ant Man thing we should know for sure one way or the other tomorrow night.
I can type short replies happily. Lost track of Season 8 but will catch up with the TPB's.
Well, he's already announced that NF is his favorite actor evah, so of course he will be offered a role in the Avengers!
Captain Tight-Ant?

I'll get me coat.
Cool, thanks for all the updates.
I agree that the "Season 8 sucks (period)" comments are getting old. There isn't really a reason for those in this thread because the arguments here are "it sucks" vs. "it doesn't suck," which is not a great formula for good discussion. Just bashing. If you want to share your opinions on the issues in the issue thread, be my guest.

Thank you again deanna b as always for your awesomeness and coverage. You are the best, and I'm glad we can all look to you at SDCC time each year.
"If you want to share your opinions on the issues in the issue thread, be my guest."

So you're telling the likes of us to leave the thread then? Is that right?

[ edited by sueworld2003 on 2010-07-24 01:02 ]
"(Dana would be, in my mind, a shining example of someone I pretty regularly disagree with, but who never fails to make reasonable points)."

Hey, a Dana shout-out AND a whedonesque shout-out. I am happy. :-)

And off I go to ride my annual bicycle ride across Iowa, for the next week. 442 miles this year, 15,000 of my closest friends, and what now looks to be good weather after severe storms hit the midwest earlier today. I promise to return feisty and rested.

Thanks for the great posts and updates here, deanna b. Interesting stuff, and if Nathan Fillion is involved, that is really excellent.
I am pretty sure the Ant Man thing was a joke - from the hitflix coverage: Of Fillion, Whedon says..."This is Ant-Man, because A) Nobody else can play the part and B) He doesn't appear in my film."
So if Nathan Fillion is Ant-Man, what are the odds on Michelle Trachtenberg as Squirrel Girl?

ETA: Oh, and thanks for the reports, guys!

[ edited by beergood on 2010-07-24 01:19 ]
deanna b & zeitgeist-Thank you. You guys are awesome.
Yes, thanks for the reports deanna, both here and on CDS.
If you don't like people's comments, then you're free not to read them. Personally, I dislike posts that are attempting to discourage others from sharing their opinion.

It's fine to wish for a more in depth discussion, but when the subject is what we think of an individual, posting detailed negative arguments is pretty much impossible without breaking the "play the ball, not the man" rule. And that rule's there for a good reason. Even if you managed to initially put your points across politely, there's a very good chance the thread will just slowly deteriorate.

I would have thought that everyone would think that not getting 100% Joss for the last arc was bad news in itself. What you make of who is chosen to be the co-writer is another issue on top of that.

(Huge thanks to deanna b & Zeitgeist - you're doing a wonderful job again.)
Thankyou to both of you for keeping us updated without being there.

You make our lives so much cheaper!
OMG! Dana5140, you are one of those crazy people who bicycle across my hot and humid (and frequently electrical stormy) state? Of course now people will post about how they don't like posts indicating that it is crazy to bike in the hottest part of the Summer.

"He concludes, "Ultimately the process is: Fun, hunger, porn, depression, fun." "

So, um, where does visiting Whedonesque fall in that list??
I'm hoping the fun part?!?! Cause the other one is just plain weird. I mean, who uses whedonesque for porn?
A Joss Whedon written superhero yaoi?

Finally, the story of my life is being told on film. :)

[ edited by Arsenal on 2010-07-24 02:18 ]
embers, I'd say it was for fun. We are undoubtedly an endless source of amusement, sort of like cats chasing their own tails. :)
Bummer, I was hoping we fell into the porn category.
Well, there was all the space fucking discussion. Could that be considered as a porn category? Is there even a porn tag?
For everyone who was in the panel-- I was the girl sitting at Nathan's feet (I would've been the final question were it not for Nathan's appearance) while he made the reveal.
For the love of all that is holy, does anyone here belong to one of the millions of flashbulbs that went off when Nathan revealed himself? I would really appreciate it.
I see Joss as credited as a co-writer for The Avengers. Did they collaborate in writing it or was this a "call the script doctor" and the original writer gave him credit?

If anyone knows the real scoop please post. Thanks.
Joss did write the Angel finale with Jeff Bell. That went alright.

Bad example. I hate that finale.
Whee, been reading the live updates of the panel (including the epic work by zeitgeist and deanna b :)) and it never fails to amaze me how much reading that feels like actually being in the room.

My reactions are:

- I LOL'd at the Nathan Fillion moment.

- I'm slightly worried about Scott Allie jumping in for the season 8 finale. Not because it's Allie (I never quite understood where all the fuss around his person stems from; he seems a nice enough guy to me), but because I feel much of the 'backlash' to recent issues of the comic are not so much a result of the story arc itself, but of the presentation in pacing, dialogue, etcetera.

Because of that, I was hoping those issues would disappear when Joss took over for the finale, as he lives and breathes these characters. So if what we get is Joss' story idea but someone else's presentation (especially someone who isn't a part of the former core ME writers, therefore lacking the experience in writing these characters, however well they may know them passively), people (and me ;)) might end up having the same problems with it. Although I'd still say: let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt and wait and see what happens :).

- Boyd being evil not preplanned. Not surprising (I think we already knew this, right?), but still slightly disappointing.

- Booing for Wash's death = heh :).

- Did I miss the actual confirmation of Joss directing avengers in my days away from the black this summer? If so: bummer, would've loved to 'squee' in that thread :). Regardless though: yay!

- NF as Ant-Man; probably a joke, but it'd certainly be awesome. Where can I sign the petition? ;)

- Am I the only one who had to Google yaoi? "Yaoi also known as Boys' Love, is a popular Japanese term for female-oriented fictional media that focus on homoerotic or homoromantic male relationships, usually created by female authors." Who knew? (Apart from everyone else on the interwebs, apparently ;))

- Sorry to read Joss won't be doing subscription based web content. Would've loved to pay to support his work in that way. Nevertheless: glad he actually did consider it as an option, but too bad it doesn't seem feasible.

- Not returning to network TV anytime soon sucks. It's still very much my preferred way of seeing new work by Joss (although, having said that, I did fall instantly in love with DHSAB and didn't instantly take to DH... so maybe I don't know what I want :)).

- Really looking forward to avengers.

- Whedonesque shout-out was awesome :).

- Did I thank zeitgeist and deanna b yet? I did? Well, two times is better :).
Nathan Fillion's Twitter says it was a joke, he's not in The Avengers.
This simply wasn't long enough. I love his comments so much. He is the man! What I wouldn't have given to be there.
I bet the crowd went wild when Nathan unmasked...things like that happening are few and far between. So very cool.
We know that the big guns will be in Avengers, but what about Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver? I can think of three Whedon alums I'd love to see as SW.
Am I the only one who had to Google yaoi?


Well, I would have to Google it, GVH, but you spared me the trouble, so thanks.
Thanks for the report.

I had a peek at one of SA's comics and I never made it past the first issue. And considering the way he talks about Buffy, I was always very glad hw was at least not writing it, since I found his take one the show left out all the intriguing complex parts of Buffy and reduced it to "hot chick slays monster for geek's delight".

I would be ok with Joss co-authoring (though it does sound like he doesn't really care much for the comic book), just not with SA. Also didn't they say, that finish was already penned?
Have fun at Ragbrai, dana5140!!! Hope the stormy weather clears up for you!
For anyone who's interested, and if Simon or the admin/mods want to edit the original post, videos of the Joss Whedon experience panel have been uploaded on YouTube now.

ETA: Just finished watching the videos, and can I say just how awesome that was. My heart is still going a million miles, it felt so very real. Love Joss, love Nathan, can't seem to get enough of them and the entire Whedonverse. It kind of reinforces just how long it's been that we've heard about/from them, and I've really missed hearing from the man himself. He's made me a gushing fan again.

[ edited by cardea on 2010-07-24 06:53 ]
The master of disguise himself.

ETA: And the big reveal (all that mystery novelist/detective stuff must be getting to him.)

[ edited by brinderwalt on 2010-07-24 07:20 ]
Bummer, I was hoping we fell into the porn category.

Whedonesque will always be in the porn category of my heart.

Well, I would have to Google it, GVH, but you spared me the trouble, so thanks.

Heh, indeed. I'd actually googled it in another tab but hadn't had a look yet so cheers GVH ;).

Captain Tight-Ant?

I'll get me coat.


*groan* ^ 2 ;).


Yay, deanna b coverage, must be July ;). Thanks to you and zeit 'Flying Fingers of Doom™' geist for making it like being there (if I always travelled with everything I own).
I'm here every Friday night, Saje.
Wastelanders with Warren Ellis? Oh wowsers! That sounds fantastic!
This sounds like an incredibly fun panel. Nathan is a hero.

So um: I'm concerned about Scott Allie co-writing the finale, not because he's necessarily bad but because I'd be worried about any writer who hasn't written for the canonical Buffyverse jumping in in the finale itself. In season eight, Brian K. Vaughan acquitted himself very well; Loeb was passable with a fluff piece, and Krueger and Meltzer really didn't work. Stats aren't good. And I think there are enough things the finale has to address that it will need very, very strong, very clean writing. And that's what I think a newbie might not be able to offer. (If Scott Allie had written a one-shot or even an arc that wasn't THE FINALE I'd be less concerned.) But yeah, benefit of the doubt and all that.

Also: it is not the same as Joss co-writing the Angel finale with Jeff Bell. Jeff Bell was a staff writer and also showrunner and had written several episodes. Allie may have showrunner-like duties, but it seems to me that the writing has been highly variable from writer to writer (very good when it's Whedon, Goddard or Vaughan; middling to good when it's Espenson or one of the other staff writers; poor with non-staff writer), and the continuity and pacing terrible, and that would be in Allie's department. (Well, and Joss' ultimately, but Joss has shown me at least that he can write comics.) Anyway I'd be similarly concerned if Joss were co-writing the finale with anyone who wasn't one of the writers from the TV show, or BKV.
Glad to save the earth that small amount of CO2-emissions, Alpert. Of course Saje messed his savings up by pre-Googling, but I guess one can't have everything ;).

Also: thanks for that link brinderwalt! Even though that was a crap-ass quality video ;), it was fun to see the NF reveal in glorious live action :).
re: Fillion as Ant Man -- there are rumors a few days ago that Adrien Brody was being courted for Ant Man. Dunno about the reliability of it, but Fillion needs to be another superhero. Look how AWESOME he was as Capt. Hammer!
Haven't seen this up yet, I've only seen the last segment, with Nathan. If this has already been posted somewhere, just ignore. The Joss Whedon Experience, part 1. Going back to find part 2 :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-KDL701Xco

Don't know how to make it a real link, if anyone else can??

[ edited by Shey on 2010-07-24 11:27 ]
Part 2. I know the transcripts have been posted somewhere, but I don't think the video has been, so I'm gonna go ahead..... ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDbKWKOlEhI
Part 3. this was really breaking up, don't know if it's the video, or if seven gazillion people were watching it at the same time.
I hope it's OK ... reading the transcript of the "oh, an idea, fun ... hmm, I'm hungry ...ooh, whedonesque .... porn!... depression ... fun" bit, can't compare to watching Joss deliver it. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90629pmvPZU

[ edited by Shey on 2010-07-24 12:12 ]
Part 4 was totally breaking up, I gave up on it.

Part 5 is the final one, with Nathan. Watching it directly on YouYube is a lot more clear than what was posted on .... oops, not sure where it was, - now I've lost track.

ellieva, if you were "sitting at Nathans feet", you might even see yourself in this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0t1Yp83n1U

[ edited by Shey on 2010-07-24 12:42 ]
@Shey, here are the links :)

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5

All of Part 5 is just gold.
aaarrrg .... Buffyfest I just found your video ... better close up of Nathan. :)
Thank you!

Crazy day, crazy night, crazy person signing off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFg8npxINoQ
Glad to save the earth that small amount of CO2-emissions, Alpert. Of course Saje messed his savings up by pre-Googling, but I guess one can't have everything ;).

Well, I didn't read the tab and I do tend to "emit" while I read. Ergo ... ;)

I'm here every Friday night, Saje.

With material like that you should be touring the world Caroline. Ahem ;).
Oh wow, the Buffyfest videos look awesome. Totally watching them ones.
It is great to actually hear (instead of just reading a transcript), it seems to me that Joss would have recognized Nathan's voice... AND it seemed obvious (to me) that Joss was saying that Ant Man would not be appearing in 'The Avengers' (therefore it wouldn't matter who would play that role since they wouldn't be in the movie).

I am so impressed at the really watchable videos we are getting, and so quickly! Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!
Thanks to everyone for the SDCC coverage thus far!
...AND it seemed obvious (to me) that Joss was saying that Ant Man would not be appearing in 'The Avengers' (therefore it wouldn't matter who would play that role since they wouldn't be in the movie).

Ant-man may not be in the Avengers film but he has his own movie in development (Edgar 'Shaun of the Dead'/'Scott Pilgrim' Wright's been attached to it for 3 or 4 years and he met with Joss a while back though what about only they know) so the role's still up for grabs. Nathan would be a great choice I reckon.

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