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August 03 2010

(SPOILER) Cover art and synopsis for Buffy #38. Well now.

Well, I suppose that means I had it wrong all along, since I was sure Dawn would die. But bringing up the possibility means she won't; it is someone else. Bye, Giles.

[ edited by Dana5140 on 2010-08-03 19:08 ]
God, I love Jo Chen's covers. I wish they made prints of all of them.
Oh,man,I was expecting what was spoiled on Jo's cover for a while.I'm surprised Dark Horse released the covers and solicitation since it gives a lot of spoilers.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2010-08-03 19:10 ]

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2010-08-03 19:10 ]
Oh man, Dawn dying would be the best thing ever. If only it had happened when it was still on TV.
I like Dawn! =( I hope she doesn't die.
Also, Jo Chen's art is so amazing. Just when I think it can't get any more fantastic, it does.
noooo! I hope Dawn doesn't die, I really love Dawn's character. I know i'm in the minority on that one, but I do. I think that she keeps Buffy grounded for the most part. if something happened to her...ugh, i don't even want to think about it. that's be so tragic if something happened to Dawn.
but then again, revealing a death in the cover might be a bit too obvious, so as someone said above me, this could just be a cover up for someone elses tragic demise
If Dawn died that would be the 3rd girlfriend of Xander's to kick it--4th if you count Cordelia. Somehow I don't see that happening. Maybe coming into big danger and leaving slaying to do the college gig like she was supposed to?
someone close to Buffy joins forces with a villain from the past to strive for a common goal-protect the seed.

So Xander bargains with a villain from the past (First Evil?) to save Dawn's life?
If there's no misdirect here and Dawn is just getting killed right after she and Xander get together... I mean FFS, Joss does what Joss does... but does he ever do it OVER... and OVER... and OVER. Have a new idea for introducing pain and character development please.

[ edited by KingofCretins on 2010-08-03 19:32 ]
Superb Chen cover as per. Her covers are to me like a window into the 'real' Buffyverse as they always act like a wonderful reminder to the show.
Back in Sunnydale everyone is fighting for their lives against a horde of demons, and someone close to Buffy joins forces with a villain from the past to strive for a common goal-protect the seed.

Maybe I'm reading too much into that, but is someone pregnant?
I do not in the slightest believe that this isn't misdirection. Especially after the whole Twilight reveal fiasco, I doubt Joss would play around with revealing spoilers in cover art, and it doesn't look like there was any attempt to withhold this one from us anyway.
Not convinced she's dying. But won't be surprised if she's (pardon the pun) key, since I don't see how one can have a season-central Twilight and not have it have anything to do with the pre-existing Dawn.
I've got to beleive that Dawn will survive, otherwise I am sorely disappointed in this spoiler. I think Dawn has developed into a great character, and Xander can't be THAT cursed.
Meanwhile, Dark Horse Comics is playing it up via Twitter.
Whoever's behind this is going to have one pissed off Xander to answer to. The newly Slayer-sparring, gun-toting Xander.

[ edited by KingofCretins on 2010-08-03 19:38 ]
I remain convinced, as I have since ages ago, that the opening lines of S8 -- "The thing about changing the world... once you do it, the world's all different." -- isn't just about Buffy, Willow, and the scythe in S7, but also is a deliberate callback to the monks, the key, and Dawn in S5.
I've always thought that Dawn would play a gigantic key role in a season that's about Twilight.

This does seem like a big spoiler to put in the cover, but Chen's covers have often been spoiler-y. We got the Dawn/Xander cover before D/X got revealed; the B/A cover when people still thought it was impossible that Buffy really would boink Angel. Still...

I have to keep reminding myself that they didn't explicitly say Xander when they talk about someone close to Buffy joining forces wth an old villian... cause my head keeps thinking Xander.
Meanwhile, Dark Horse Comics is playing it up via Twitter.

What part of "some fans don't like to be spoiled" didn't they learn from last time round?
Dawn may play a key role without playing a Key role -- I still think that's too much for Joss to suddenly try to dig out and sandbag as suddenly relevant. Not when we apparently also have NEW phlebotenum and there is a "seed".

Who the old villain is is the most interesting question, IMO. Who is memorable enough and not dead with whom to bother? D'Hoffryn, Dru? Doc?
Well... chalk that up as another romance novel cover for Dawn!

As for the Chen's cover, here's an alternate theory... one where Dawn doesn't just become the typical damsel-in-distress. Dawn's the key (haha!) to ending this whole Twilight business, and she does what she was prevented from doing back in "The Gift". Dawn's got some pretty large cojones... we've seen it before. Amy's a powerful witch... Amy wants to hurt the Scoobies, but Amy also likes to live. Help Dawn with her sacrifice, and she achieves both goals. Pure wanton speculation on my part, coz I'm sitting in a hotel room, bored outta my mind.

[ edited by wenxina on 2010-08-03 19:52 ]
I'm enjoying the Buffy and Spike fighting side by side as that's what so many fans of that relationship want. I'm grinning at the idea of Angel being called to task and given a paddling for failing to be a proper supervillain--the Universe is not happy with Twangel. *spanks* Hopefully Angel will tell off whoever signed him up for his Twilight escapades--that will help redeem his character for me.

...someone close to Buffy joins forces with a villain from the past to strive for a common goal--protect the seed.

I imagine this is the betrayal that's "the closest, the most unexpected." Xander joining forces with an old villain to protect Dawn. Now, who's the villain from the past?

I really want to edit this solicitation for grammar and sentence structure. For one thing, a hyphen is not a dash! ;-)

[ edited by Emmie on 2010-08-03 19:52 ]
Boy, I hope not, Simon. Girl has sex = girl gets pregnant is getting just as tiresome as someone getting killed right before or right after they get together. And you know, it would be nice to think that someone other than Buffy and Riley know what safe sex is.

[ edited by menomegirl on 2010-08-03 19:54 ]
I love the mood of Chen's cover, but I totally thought Xander was carrying Willow for a second there. Sure, not red hair, but Chen's covers often alter color in order to create a mood (e.g. Buffy's eyes being brown in Chen's cover for #37).

Gotta say, not a fan of Jeanty's. It's way too crowded, which I get is the point, but it's crowded to the point of being awkward and deflating the drama. Even the way Buffy's holding the scythe and how it's turned looks awkward to me.

I'll definitely be buying Chen's this month.
This is the first time I might buy two covers. I agree about the crowding, but I'm not going to walk by a Spuffy fighting back-to-back cover. Chen's is a must-have as well. Fortunately there's a long time for me to make this weighty decision.
True, Maggie. I kinda want to edit out all the demons though to give the cover some breathing room. I remember asking Allie if we'd get a Spuffy cover and he said no. Maybe this cover hadn't been in the works yet, but I wonder if he perhaps didn't realize this is a Spuffy cover because it's not a Harlequin romance pose. Spike and Buffy fighting side by side is A+.
Heh... the Scythe isn't something that is easily wielded in a crowded room. And monster mosh!
Kinda liking Jeanty's for the nipple-y vajayjay demon... Chen's... meh... again, it's still hitting me as pretty, but I'm not sold on it. And I'm not a fan of romance novel covers. The feminist in me says that I'm buying the cover with the woman who's active, and not passive. Though... if my alternate theory listed above is somewhat right, then I guess Dawn wasn't being all that passive before this.
Buffy/Spike cover makes Enisy a happy puppy!

I agree with other users that if Dawn really were to die, the highers-up wouldn't lampshade it like this. She's safe. At this point, it wouldn't even be dramatic if *yet* another girlfriend of Xander's kicked the bucket, it would just be droll.
I've got to think Allie didn't realize this is what a lot of Spike and/or Spuffy fans would want. I think he thinks that the shipping wars are about who gets the one 'good outcome', not realizing that the reason there's a division in the first place is because we have very different ideas about what counts as a 'good outcome.'
If everyone is back in Sunnydale, I'm wondering if it's not just going to be a huge crater. If not, then are we looking at time travel again? Or going into the Hellmouth?

If time travel is in the mix, I wonder if Ethan Rayne won't be the villain from the past who'll help Xander. Or even better, if it is Ethan, Giles could join forces with him to "protect the seed"--oh wow, that sounds horribly cheesy.

[eta] Yep, Maggie, I'm reminded of Eilowyn's meta on the subject in how differently the two main Buffy 'ship fans view what counts as a good outcome.

[ edited by Emmie on 2010-08-03 20:14 ]
Maybe this cover hadn't been in the works yet, but I wonder if he perhaps didn't realize this is a Spuffy cover because it's not a Harlequin romance pose. Spike and Buffy fighting side by side isA+.

Yes, exactly. Them fighting back to back is the classic Spuffy core :).

I think Jo Chen's cover is amazing and for Jeanty it's deffinitey one of the better ones.
If we take the Jo Chen cover at face value:I knew Dawn had a bullseye on her forehead.Poor Xander,every one of his serious love interests has gotten killed.Cordy,Anya,Renee and now it looks like Dawn too.

The person close to Buffy who joins forces with the villain from the past.Is this the betreyal that's been hinted at since issue 10?

And as for protect the seed?I'm assuming this is the prince?From issue 10,"The important thing is you rescue the prince."Scott did say this would come up again and while they weren't going to spell it out,we would be able to figure out who the prince is.

And my first thought is,Could Buffy be pregnant with Angel's baby?I mean Buffy is refered to as the queen.Angel could be the king(due to what has been revealed so far about Twilight and B/A's role in it).Would there child be the prince then?Also Angel is the only person Buffy's slept with recently that um has the parts.

Remember this question from Scott's final Slayalive Q/A?

54. lostsoul: Some fans around the internet are thinking that Buffy may get pregnant. Can you please put my worries to rest that she will not?

Scott Allie: What, you mean ever?

My fave Jeanty cover will always be his Seven Samurai homage for #15 followed by his The Chain cover "I want you" Uncle Sam propaganda homage, then his cover for Turbulence with Buffy wiping away a tear as Xander and Dawn kiss in the background. For all I love the content of this cover (Spuffy!!!), I think this falls in the middle ground of Jeanty's work for Season 8.

Hey, do I get points for maintaining a consistent standard on a subjective matter? Maybe?
Dawn's in trouble. It must be Tuesday. ;)
See, this is what happens when women hook up with Xander Harris. :( I don't wish her to die as I actually like the character, but if it came down to a choice between Giles and Dawn, sorry to say I'd have to go with Dawn. That said, I would be sad if Dawn were killed (granted, not on the same level as Giles who has been a scooby from the beginning, but still) Plus, I really don't want to see Xander suffer yet ANOTHER heartbreak of love lost. Geez, poor guy. Can't he ever catch a break? Poor Buffy as well, as Dawn is her last family member and I can imagine how much it would tear her up inside to lose her sister/daughter all in one; the very same sister she once died for to protect.

Given, however, that the season finale promises "big tears" I didn't think it would be Dawn (though this beautiful Chen cover seems to suggest otherwise)as the fandom doesn't seem too terribly broken up about her possible death. My money is on Giles or someone like that, though I desperately hope that is not the case. Actually, I hope none of the core scoobs die. And I hate to say it, but if Joss kills yet another one of Xander's love interests (twice in one season, mind you), that's just a tad too predictable, not to mention ridiculous and redundant. Don't worry, I still love you Joss, and will always be your loyal follower to the ends of the earth; but I really think our Xander deserves a break for once; I mean c'mon.
I'd rather Dawn die than Xander, Willow, or Giles. She hasn't been around as long as them, and let's face it---she's not a person, she's just a key.
Angel is still a vampire. Nobody's pregnant by him, unless Joss has decided that he wants to write the vampire story that even Blade's Stephen-Dorff-in-sunscreen can make fun of.

I actually went to a less human sexuality place with the "seed". Seeds are things that grow, that take root, that bind together. Reality is collapsing around them. This "seed" might be what they need to grow/heal reality around itself.

Oh, and I'll be cheering Xander on if Dawn dies and he can justly hold someone responsible and goes after them.
Yeah, I was thinking of "the seed" in the sense of it somehow having the power to restore order to the world or something like that. I really hope we're not going with a pregnancy story because those are never handled all that well for the ladies in question. They all die--because giving birth means you lose your life, right? :-/
I hope that the seed is Buffy and Angel's child conceived in the Twilight dimension. That would make me happy.
she's not a person, she's just a key.

She's extraordinary. And also a person in her own right. I thought we established that by now.
It's been established for me, anyway.
Dawn ain't gonne die. And we know from comments that S9 is focusing on the core group again. So who bites it, then? Is Dawn core? I'd say yes, and I am sure as hell that all this huffing and puffing over a Dawn death is just smoke and mirrors, nothing to see here. To me, this signals death at a different level- so, Angel or Spike come to mind, but Spike already died a couple of times- his real death and his "all blowed up" death, leaving Angel. But then, Angel has his own comic, so that won't work. Meaning, look to important secondary characters. Satsu or Kennedy? Not another lesbian. Leaving only Faith. Faith? Whatever for? Where is the resonance?

So, what death would really, really piss people off? I go with Willow. Noting that this contradicts my analysis above. But hey, it would reunite her with Tara, at least until they bring Willow back next season.

As to past evil villains that they could work with, let's see:
Mayor- all blowed up in snake form.
Master- bones crushed to pieces.
Glory- can you kill a hell God? I mean, they hit her with a rock the size of my car, but who knows? She did want Dawn to open the gates of hell, but this really doesn't work for me
Adam- nah.
Trio of Doom- nope.
Harth? Interesting, but not likely.
Angelus- uh uh.
Dark Willow- that could be interesting, and something is up with Willow anyway.
First Evil- cannot be killed, so is most likely.
Dead Maggie Walsh- would tie in with the army, but no on this.
D'Hoffryn- I don't see it.
Dru- nuh uh. Not big enough.

(ETA: If there is a pregnancy and it involves Twilight, and it has a vampire baby that Buffy allows herself to die in order to save, I for one, quit this world forever).

[ edited by Dana5140 on 2010-08-03 21:00 ]
I'm not sure which villains we can rule out simply because they're dead. We should have ruled out Sunnydale as a potential setting and yet everyone will be back in Sunnydale. I'm kinda getting the feeling the battle won't be going down in a huge crater of sand because... boring. So something is up.

And agreed that Dawn is extraordinary.
Angel being a vamp doesn't preclude him from getting someone pregnant, not when higher powers are messing with him. In Angel Season 2, The Powers That Be (with maybe Jasmine interfering in the latter) enabled Angel to both enter Kate's apartment uninvited and get Darla pregnant (must've done a number on her dead vamp womb and womanly workings as well).

Who's to say that Connor was a one-time thing ? What if the instance of Angel/Darla wasn't a one-time magic event ? What if TPTB/Jasmine healed/humanized his reproductive abilities permanently ? (meaning there was risk of getting Nina and Eve pregnant as well, as they're the only ones Angel had sex with after Angel Season 2, if I recall correctly--oh, maybe those three oracle ladies or whatever they were, as well).

Not saying I want a Buffy pregnancy storyline, but it'd by no means be out of left field. It's very much on the table. Though not relevant to all audience members/readers (though to a majority), if we're following Buffy through her teens and early adulthood, it'd make sense as the next logical step as far as what we get to see her tackle next (major storyline for Season 9, or one of them, maybe?). Also, it'd give Joss the opportunity (if he's heavily involved in Season 9 despite being busy with Avengers and whatnot) to explore the story about pregnant female warriors that he didn't get the chance to see through and only barely began in Firefly with Zoe.

I'm glad they might be finally paying off Dawn's Key qualities. Ever since Willow threatened to unmake her back into green glowy energy in Season 6's finale, even though I don't hate Dawn, I've been mentally daring the show to go there. Maybe it won't mean a true death after all (at least not in the sense that Fred experienced), despite what everyone was assuming in Season 5. Maybe she/it will maintain a consciousness, after living life as a human girl (albeit with most of it constructed instead of genuinely experienced/lived through).

Not sure why folks always pick Giles as the second-most-likely main character to die after Dawn. Is it because he's the oldest (well, now that Anya's gone and Angel & Spike are only guest characters) ? Maybe Disney films have conditioned us to think that parental figures are the most likely to die prematurely ? Only Willow is safe (and Buffy, unless they're changing the title or killing her off a third time). Xander's fair game too, so I dunno why Giles almost always comes up before him. I sorta hope Season 8 lets all the main characters live. We just had a massive die-off in Season 7 and Angel Season 5, not every season has to end with main character casualties.

[ edited by Kris on 2010-08-03 21:19 ]
Kris, the one thing I feel the need to point out is that Connor was a possibility because of the life that Angel won in the Trials trying to save human!Darla.
Waterkeeper, good point, I'd forgotten about that fact.
No Dawn can't die. I used to dislike Dawn passionately, but upon re-watching Buffy many times over have grown to really like her character, she became not as annoying as she once seemed and I have warmed to her.

Plus what other people have said above about Xander losing another love interest is overkill at this point, geez give the guy a break. And if anyone has to die my vote goes for Andrew.
Oh man Gazzy, yes, I'm usually happy to just go with the flow and see what the writers have in store, but I'd actively support Andrew being killed off. I haven't hated on him in a while (no disrespect to Tom Lenk, who was great in the role, but Andrew's far overstayed/outlived his welcome), so there we go.
Aieee! Makes me glad I'm no longer taking this seriously.

Jossfan_21: Joss said it back in S-1; the Core 4 or at least Core 3 are doomed to remain ultimately alone romance-wise.

theonetrueb!x, Maggie; Oh, you make with sun-on-the-horizon witticisms an' all, huh?

KingofCretins: That's what I've been saying.
And did you mean the villain or the writers would be dealign with an angry Xander *grin?

I've read 3 fics by various cyber-friends breaking 4th Wall. Two sweet ones, one of Buffy, Willow, and Xander meeting Joss, one of Willow, Xander, and Dawn meeting Tony and Amber. And one at the Kittenboard where Willow and Tara ae walking along and notice copy of the S"eeing Red" script lying around. Then further down the block they meet Steve DeKnight. That one wasn't very sweet.
Of course - you write yourself into a hole by having Angel act in essentially the most OOC fashion imaginable, realize you have to explain it, and take him away from all of the other characters, each of whom have important storylines and issues that must resolved.

Thus, either Angel's solo trip gets sufficient treatment to deal with the ridiculous things they've had him do, and every other character gets kind of shoehorned together or ignored, or the opposite, and Angel still has no discernible motivation connected to anything we've previously known about him. Lovely.

Maybe this is just knee-jerk anger at this point. Maybe this trip around the world will do something to make clear what the hell happened to him (the "demons of his own" are psychological? "willingly or not" implies that someone's messing with his mind?) and the other characters won't suffer. I sure hope so - frankly, at this point, most of the reason I care at all is to see how they resolve the incongruity in Angel's behavior (the other reason being I want to see who dies and what villains they bring back, as I still have a great deal of attachment to all the show's main characters if not their depictions in the comics). I thought the comic was so absurd and inconsistent with the tone of the show for most of its run that I couldn't bring myself to pay much attention. But then my favorite character got shoehorned in to the madness, and he was butchered even more than logic was by having a time travel sequence. And they pull me back in...
I doubt Buffy will get pregnant by Angel. I mean Connor has enough daddy issues as is; he doesn't need to start a sibling rivalry.

If anyone's pregnant it has to be Dawn... and it has to be from the Thricewise, not Xander.
Gazzy I'm with you. I used to dislike Dawn...or rather was just annoyed by her. The more I've watched the series over and over again, and the closer I've become to the family dynamics of the show, the more Dawn has felt like family and i love her.
I think Dawn was annoying for a reason (to FEEL like a younger sister to viewers), and I think in Season 7 we see Dawn become an amazing young woman who was shaped by the younger Dawn. As I watched her in Season 7, as a big sister to three younger siblings, I felt proud.
I think that her relationship with Buffy is very important and something we have not really seen, with true emotion, in Season 8. I, though in the minority, am hopeful that she will not die.
oversharechick : Whom exactly do you mean by "as a big sister to three younger siblings"?
I don't think Joss can mine deeper, richer depths of fail than for him to have contrived some way for Buffy to be pregnant by a vampire. Exactly why not just have canonized "Queen of the Slayers" at that point?

Pregnant Dawn seems like a waste -- she obviously won't have been far enough along for the audience to heavily emotionally invest. Pregnant anyone based on this "seed" element seems pretty unlikely, IMO.

I am talking characters with a Xander revenge trip, definitely. If Dawn gets killed and it can be fairly attributed to, for instance, Angel's tactics throughout the season having created the circumstances, or Buffy's choices in ignoring that, or anybody's direct choice in leading to her being killed, I would fully endorse his right of vengeance.
I am also sort of afraid how this arc will pit Angel against Spike once again and how it will affect their relationship. I hope that all these great bonding moments that Brian created between them will not be thrown away.
The villain from the past is probably Drusilla. She's the only I can think of that's still alive. Aside from The First.
Yay! A Spuffy cover! Buffy and Spike fighting shoulder to shoulder!

*does a Numfar dance of joy*

Hopefully Dawn will be resurrected soon. She was abused all season long, can't she get a respite for a while?

Not sure why folks always pick Giles as the second-most-likely main character to die after Dawn.

In TOYL there is a mention of "Gates. The last great watcher. Sacrificed himself at the battle of Starbucks". As far as I remember, there was a Starbucks cafe at Sunnydale.

[ edited by Moscow Watcher on 2010-08-03 22:30 ]
She's the only I can think of that's still alive.

Or maybe Ethan faked his death somehow?
Wow, that's a lot of potentially spoilery stuff!

I can't see Dawn dying. But it has been theorized a LOT so maybe...and it could potentially lead to that "closest, most unexpected betrayal" if it causes Xander to fight against Buffy in despair, anger or a desperate attempt to save and/or bring back Dawn.

Am intrigued by "everyone" being in Sunnydale to fight. Makes me think they aren't literally traveling to Sunnydale as much as Sunnydale comes to them...sort of. With that whole dimensional Twilight shift thing where we already saw parts of Sunnydale.

Chen's cover is quite gorgeous and Jeanty's is very vibrant and colorful and....busy. LOL. I always expected to see a Buffy and Spike fighty cover for them - very appropriate. And fair's fair I guess since we already got to see Buffy and Angel fighting side by side and back to back (and hand in hand *g*).

Interesting verbiage about Angel and facing up to his Twilight issues - WILLINGLY OR NOT. Hmmmmmmmmm......this must be the badness we knew was coming for Angel. Will be interesting to see how Buffy - and Spike - deals with that. Am wondering if Angel will need to be saved now.

The seed is.......interesting. Not sure what to say about that. But all in all I'm very excited to see it all play out.

[ edited by lmblack21 on 2010-08-03 22:59 ]
The "Gates" and "Starbucks" thing is pretty clearly a joke about people in the future misremembering turn of the millenium history, as Microsoft/Bill Gates and Starbucks are both based in Seattle. Think it's a bit of a stretch to connect that to Giles and Sunnydale.
The short list of villains who aren't dead and who don't suck and that fans might care about includes... Drusilla, D'Hoffryn, Doc (although I really doubt that Xander could possibly work with him). I really can't think of any others, not even going all the way through the seasons. I don't really count the First for this purpose -- if nothing else, how precisely can it help? Even if you ignore the metaphysical impossibility of it having a cooperative or charitable intention, what's it going to do, make remarks?

Villains people would want to see again that could be brought back are different... that gives you everything from Ethan Rayne to Wilkins to Glory.
This looks a really really good.
Love the Spike and Buffy fighting side by side, too bad that wasn't the Jo Chen cover, she would have made it beyond epic.

I don't think Dawn is going to die but i do think that either she's the seed or the one that is pregnant. Personaly i think it's the first one.

Angel, i really hope this character will pay for all that he's done. Don't know if it's meant as him having to answer the higher power or dealing with the consequences of all the things he's done. Either way i want there to be serious consequences for his actions.
Buffy getting pregnant by a vampire would just be a repeat of a storyline they've used on 'Angel', except from the female protagonist's perspective. Apart from that, not all that innovative.

The two tutelary deities of a new world conceiving the first of the children that will inherit it - only for the female half of the couple to decide she doesn't want to do that after all and go back home, then discover she's pregnant... rather more dramatic scope.

I doubt that the 'seed' refers to a regular, non-mystical pregnancy, for example Dawn/Xander: why would villains and Scoobies be teaming up to fight over that? And for the record, Allycat, Dawn never slept with Kenny. Only with his roommate.

To be honest, though, I'm going for the non-pregnancy idea for the 'seed'. I think it'll be something connected to the new world that's being created; the kernel that will determine what it grows into. Maybe whoever controls it will get to decide what the new universe will be like? Paradise for humans, or hell for demons?
Has it been established that Doc survived the fall from Glory's shoddily constructed portal-tower ? I know his fate was left up in the air in the show, but we weren't lead to believe he survived (I think some fans just want him to be alive because he was played by the excellent Joel Grey). Did any of the writers ever comment about it ?

As I said above, not jonesing to see a Buffy pregnancy. But how does one automatically come to the conclusion that it'll be made of fail ? If mystical pregnancies (and pregnancies in general) are often handled badly in genre fiction (TV, comic, or otherwise), isn't that all the more reason to see if it can be done well, long as there's a story there ? Werewolf movies usually suck (far as classic monsters go, there're way more films made about vamps, but you often see average to great stuff pop up frequently enough to not put off audiences and studios--werewolves have been treated much more poorly). If I had a killer idea for a werewolf film/comic/book and I was so inclined, I'd try to get it made regardless of the fact that most material about them sucks, maybe even spurred on by that in an effort to break through the crap. Same with mystical pregnancy storylines, IMO.
Dawn dead? Nah, we're not that lucky. :P I kid, I kid!

These last issues sound more confusing than the last arc. T.T' Is that possible? I mean, it sounds epic, but waaay too confusing. My head still can't get around the last arc.
I think it's just inference -- there's no reason a fall from that height should be more especially fatal to him than it would be to Spike, not when we know that (like Spike) he can be stabbed through the chest with a sword and get back up.

[ edited by KingofCretins on 2010-08-04 00:21 ]
As somebody who thought Dawn should have been shipped off to a nice private school somewhere in England at the beginning of Season 7 to reduce the absurd "character load" (no need to kill her, folks), I'd be really, really annoyed to have her die at this point. She's established herself as part of the story.

And, please, pretty please, can we stop killing off women who fall in love? It has moved beyond the predictable to the simply boring. Oh, a love interest in a JW tale? Don't worry, she'll get killed soon enough ... maybe this is the point where the editor needs to step in and talk some sense into the writers.
Throwing my lot in with the "Dawn's not gonna die" team. After the Twilight debacle I can't imagine Dark Horse would be playing up a mistaken reveal like that. On top of that, Allie said something about not showing the more spoilery covers recently, though he never said which ones.
Or all of this is a way of making it LOOK like a misdirect (so a misdirect on a misdirect?).
Other reasoning being: Xander's lost two loves in a row. AND Joss knows he's beaten this "Couple gets together finally, one dies" trope to death (heh). Is he REALLY gonna do it again, when he already did it to Xander this season (with minimal pay out)?
Of course, it could finally pay off Renee's death. "Third time's the charm" to really send Xander over the edge.

Also doubting 'the seed' refers to a pregnancy. Seems too easy. Maybe it's sort of like Pandora's Box. At the bottom of the Hellmouth there's something incredibly powerful that could be used.

No guesses on the villain. I honestly have no idea who it'll be, other than Amy or Warren being used.

Could Angel be the prince though? Given what he "willingly or not" will have to go through in the coming issues, could he be the one Buffy has to save?

[ edited by trunkstheslayer on 2010-08-04 00:36 ]
I hope Dawn doesn't die. I hope no one dies. There are many more ways to tear a person apart; like sending someone away. Cordy as a higher power(if it had been done better) was a kick in the nuts for Angel. Angel leaving Buffy was a kick in the teeth for Buffy. Giles leaving Buffy was a kick in the broken ribs for me(owww!!). Really you don't have to kill everyone to cause pain!!!(you can just kick them!)
I can hardly WAIT for September. This is going to be good.
I hope Dawn doesn't die, but if she does, I want her to go out in a blaze of glory, defending her friends and the world. Let's not have another meaningless death (i.e. like what happened to Tara). If Dawn dies, she should die a heroine.
Going out in a blaze of glory still sucks out load. Ask any fan of Supernatural's Ellen.
don't think Dawn will die, but I am excited as hell for this return to Sunnydale.
I'd say I've been homesick.... but this being a fictional place that I've never lived, that would make me a crazy person.

[ edited by azzers on 2010-08-04 03:44 ]
I think it's obvious that the seed refers to Buffy being pregnant with Angel's spawn. That way the Bangel fans will always have that satisfaction without the story having to actually portray the monotony of Buffy and Angel together. ;)
I will officially hate it, and Joss will not care one little bit. ;)
He went to spacefucking for pete's sake, why wouldn't he go all the way and have her get pregnant? Otherwise there was no point.

[ edited by Xane on 2010-08-04 15:44 ]
Buffy pregnant with some mystical spawn. Will the story end with Buffy having to turn the sword to herself ?
Pro-choice storyline perhaps? I know I'm tired of the Juno style- it all works out in the end and the kid gets a great family type. It's more like the kid goes to an agency and gets tossed around for a very long time. So if Joss goes with this story, I hope he makes it worth our while.
The 'seed' isn't Buffy being pregnant. It makes no sense from that synopsis. Why would anyone need to join forces with a villain to protect Buffy and Angel's child? Buffy would protect that child more fiercely than anything she has ever done before.

Like some others have suggested I think the 'seed' has something to do with Dawn, and that the cover references Xander's attempts to protect Dawn from whatever she herself plans to do. Did he knock her out and is taking her out of harms way, sorta like S7?

I think the villain could be someone like Saga Vasuki. She's not really a 'past villain' but we are meant to see her again in the last arc. But what would excite me more is Ethan Rayne.

I'm really excited to see what Angel will be going through. Last Gleaming sounds epic.

Great covers.
Ah, like Willow joining the bad side, perhaps trying to sacrifice Dawn for whatever reason. Huh, interesting. But really can't wait for this to come out.
Xane, watch your tone. It's getting ugly.
Possibility for "seed": Buffy could be pregnant. Angel had sex and is not Angelus. The powers that brought them together can clearly do a lot to make this coupling happen, BUT -- they were giving birth to TWILIGHT, the new dimension. Some thought Buffy's stomach-holding in her portentous vision of betrayal early in the season pointed at someone being preggers, but that could just be referring to Twilight.

Twilight's Last Gleaming, Dawn's Early Light. If Dawn's pregnant? Okay here's the thing: The Thricewise liked Dawn, but she slept with his roommate, so it would be his roommate's kid. We don't know Kenny's roommate's name. Timeline-wise, isn't Connor in college? Just a thought.

But seriously I think Dawn is the cork in the hellbottle that they've unleashed on the Earth. As the key, she can close what Angel and Buffy's sexcapade opened, though that's not necessarily through her death. Also, Xander is clearly not the one who will be teaming with an old enemy.

Future Willow is guilty enough about something she did that she needs Buffy to kill her in the future. All magical creatures are going to be cast out of this world if Fray's future is real. Willow will be doing something with the villain, and that will probably have something to do with Dawn. Also, keep in mind the wording: a villain from the past, not an old villain. Time travel may be involved, and what could be more tragically ironic than ? I can't even keep track of the amount of irony I just mentioned in that situation.

But poor Xander needs to be with somebody that doesn't die! If Dawn's dying in this issue, the curse of Xander Harris needs to be addressed.

[ edited by PuppetDoug on 2010-08-04 10:01 ]
Xander's the one in the cross-hairs. He's the only one -- the "heart" of the Scoobs -- whose death would really elicit the tears that are promised. Buffy killed future Evil-Willow, scratch Willow. Tho' Dawn's always been there subjectively thanks to the monks, she was only there 3 of the 7 seasons for the viewers, scratch Dawn. Losing Giles would be death of other-parent, but Buffy's had the major parent loss with her mom, scratch Giles. It leaves Xander.
@PuppetDoug: We do know Kenny's room-mate's name. It's Nick. Revealed in "Anywhere by Here". Also, if it was a pregnancy from then... we're talking some major gestation time here... Buffy references a year since Twilight started making her life hell. When exactly that started in her mind is debatable, I guess. But the point is, it's a helluva long time to be carrying demon spawn and not know it. Though, it could be like one of those parasites that stay inside forever before symptoms emerge...
@DaddyCatALSO-just kind of curious where you found the fanfic you mentioned.
Betsy: The one with W&T and Steve DeKnight is a short -one-off I saw several years ago at the Kittenboard, so it's technically available but I have little idea how to search it out. The other two were contest entries and are no longer publically posted.
DaddyCatALSO Sorry, that was unclear, I meant me. Just that I emphathized with the older sister/younger sister dynamic :)

[ edited by oversharechick on 2010-08-04 18:49 ]
@wenxina - Well my Connor and Dawn lovechild was mostly a joke, half wishful thinking, and 15% premature senility. I am very bad at math and leave it to the Buffy Trekker Venn diagram overlappers to keep the timeline straight for me. Also, I didn't realize they'd said his name. I still think Dawn is extremely important.

@bluegrrl - Having said that Dawn is extremely important, if Xander is in the crosshairs, it would probably be because of some sort of life force exchange to save her after she does whatever danger daring-do she does to close the big hell portal. Which means Xander might yet be the one consorting with an enemy.

I will hold though, I don't think anyone's really dying. I think .

(PS I use spoiler text for my theories 'cause sometimes I don't want to know other people's--it can lead to me figuring out things or they could be right, or worse--it's better than what happens.)
I love the art but Xander doesn't look too upset to me. He looks as if any moment he'll smile.

someone close to Buffy joins forces with a villain from the past to strive for a common goal-protect the seed.

What if it's Giles seeking help from Ethan?! Ethan was brought into the story earlier this season and it could've been to remind people of his character and therefore make sense when he popped up with Giles.

I'd been guessing Giles would die (my worst fear) but perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps it will be Dawn. I've never cared for Dawn but Buffy does. So I'd be sad for Buffy if Dawn goes.
WELL, THIS IS NOT related to #38, but it regards BtVS and AtS in general...

I've noticed almost since the beginning the almost inesistent involvement of Joss in AtS. David Fury in an interview said Joss originally hated the Angel character and it was David Greenwalt who persuaded him to make the character work. Maybe is this the reason for his lack of involvement in IDW work and his treatement of Angel in s8? More important, is he trying to destroy (or Kill) this amazing character?
That's just a wee bit paranoid. Dunno how Joss felt about Angel starting out (what, was the character mandated by The WB the way Spike being resurrected for Angel Season 5 was? Did they feel they needed a good vamp potential love interest for Buffy, that the show needed a potential triangle starting out--or square, if you count Willow--to make it more like the usual teen drama/provide fodder for conflicts ? I thought Greenwalt was helping Joss get the show going and created the character or they co-created him or something). But I doubt he hated him for long. He probably wouldn't have written as many episodes of Angel as he did if he hated him. Pretty sure Joss has been one of the many writers to applaud how Boreanaz grew the character and grew into the role, especially once he branched off into his own self-titled series, that they enjoyed his performances.

On paper, if you really look at Buffy/Angel in Season 2...what writer wouldn't have wanted to mess that up and play with conventions ? Buffy/Angel likely would've gotten extremely boring if they'd continued as they were, fairly happy and trusting in the middle of that season. I don't think it's so much a matter of hating the character, as being extremely bored with writing him if he just stays broody, loyal, atoning, and good.
I remember it being said that Angel was only a 2 episode deal until they saw how well DB worked with the cast and the WB wanted more of him. But I never heard that Joss hated him. I always thought he gave him one of the more interesting stories, always unfolding and shrouded in mystery, sometimes daft humour(barry manilow!). So I never got a hate vibe from him. Angelus was one of the best moves he made with any character, possibly better than Faith frolicking back and forth between good and evil, possibly. (and that's my all time favourite arc! So saying that that may have been a more interesting turn is saying ALOT!).

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