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August 17 2010

Whedonverse gay characters celebrated. Four of blastr's "20 gay characters we love from sci-fi movies and TV" come from BtVS and Firefly.

I laughed at the Andrew classification.
That's who I figured they meant from Firefly, but...I don't think I'd categorize her as "gay." Or even bi. I don't think she really had a preference, actually. Don't think she really can, given her profession.
And Mag! She's into the Asian Techheads! ;)
Did Rowling actually say Dumbledore was a celibate? The writing in this article is kind of crap.
@Shadow: 'Pansexual' may be a better fit for someone like Inara, really.

@Caz: I'm not positive, but I vaguely recall her saying that he never partnered off. Course that doesn't exclude some magical one nighters.

....Fine, don't laugh. I thought it was funny...ok, no I didn't.
'Pansexual' may be a better fit for someone like Inara, really.

'Pan' sounds a bit broad for basically "both" though ;).

Did Rowling actually say Dumbledore was a celibate? The writing in this article is kind of crap.

Well, he doesn't get any in the books so does it matter what Jo Rowling says ? I mean, going by the text itself he's more celibate than he is gay.

Very broad interpretation of 'gay' IMO, many of these characters are either "gender blind", bisexual or omni-sexual rather than straightforwardly gay. Not convinced about Dax (the symbiont is basically genderless IIRC and Jadzia Dax is a blending of both Jadzia and Dax) or Chiana or Inara. Seems a bit like an excuse to put the word 'gay' in the headline. Still, good news so why not celebrate it.
They lost me with...

Considering we've seen him in passionate and romantic relationships with both genders, the only unexplored partners for Jack are Weevils.

Great, let's get transphobic. *rolleyes*
I remember the last time an article like this was posted. If that was any indication, it's about to get ugly in here.

*sigh*
Very broad interpretation of 'gay' IMO, many of these characters are either "gender blind", bisexual or omni-sexual rather than straightforwardly gay. Not convinced about Dax (the symbiont is basically genderless IIRC and Jadzia Dax is a blending of both Jadzia and Dax) or Chiana or Inara. Seems a bit like an excuse to put the word 'gay' in the headline.

I was thinking very much the same way Saje, especially in regards to Jadzia Dax.

Based on my recollection, Jadzia Dax appeared in 148 Episodes and in 147 of them was clearly interested in the opposite sex. The only time (that I recall) in which she expressed interest in a gay relationship was in this Episode referenced, where a prior opposite sex history had been established when the Dax symbiont had been bonded to a man. Including her really seems to me to be a stretch.
AHHHHH! I LOVE Andrew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Inara was never, ever portrayed as gay, despite her acceptance of female clients from time to time.
Yeah, slightly dubious list, anyone know the name of that episode with Dax and the other 'woman'. I was totally into Dax, she was my first sci-fi crush. Also I tried to youtube the Xena-Gabrielle kiss and I had to bloody sign up to youtube because the 'community' had rated the scene as only suitable for over 18s. Dickheads.

I'm still constantly disappointed by the underplaying or non-existence of homosexual relationships, especially lesbian women. I'm in the middle of season 2 of Babylon 5 at the moment and I just know I'm going to be disappointed with Talia and Ivanova's relationship.
...anyone know the name of that episode with Dax and the other 'woman'. I was totally into Dax, she was my first sci-fi crush.

It's the season 4 episode 'Rejoined'. Pretty interesting episode which was, in some ways, a mirror of the earlier TNG ep "The Host" (where Beverly falls for a trill in one body, continues to love "him" after a necessary transplantation into Riker's body BUT can't quite overcome her own preconceptions/inclinations after it's transplanted again, this time into a female body).

Re: widespread acceptance though, episodes like 'Rejoined' don't do much IMO since they're the TV friendly face of homosexuality i.e. two attractive women making out.
It's clear that J. Dax would have been with another woman on Risa, had she not already been with Worf.

But yes, not sure 'gay' is the word they're looking for with this list.
I personally don't like the whole thing, but I can honestly say that my dislike for Willow/Tara had nothing to do with the gay aspect...I was just a lot bigger fan of Willow/Oz. I still wanna cry during "Wild at Heart".

[ edited by GilesQueen on 2010-08-18 14:32 ]
GilesQueen: I'm as big a Tarafan as it gets and I always cried at that line myself (I no longer cry over Joss's shows.)

These lists aren't a bad thing; "arguing someone off it" isnt' really logically possible.

I still contend Andrew's sexuality is basically gay rtaher than absent (ie. homo- not a-) but it's so sublimated it's almost irrelevant. (I did pair him with Larry in a wish-fic, I'll confess.)
@Saje, pan applies because of it's deeper meanings. Also, saying 'both' when it comes to sex/gender is...an extremely narrow view of it to say the least. There's far more to it than 'boy' and 'girl'. Men, women, trans-men, trans-women (namely those who ID as such, rather than IDing as fully male/female), genderqueers/fucks, intersex individuals...I could go on here if need be.

Hell, pansexuality could be argued (even more strongly) for Willow: Snake-lady. Come on, Vasuki places Willow in a very different place in terms of sexual orientation.


@Omega: Inara being on the list is an issue only in that the writer of the list is yet another one of those folks who doesn't think to put "gay/bi characters" rather than just 'gay'. The way she spoke to the...senator? Bugger all, I just watched this ep. What was her title? Made it clear that while she may not be 50/50 with her interests, there's still an interest in women.
'Councilor' wasn't it ?

@Saje, pan applies because of it's deeper meanings. Also, saying 'both' when it comes to sex/gender is...an extremely narrow view of it to say the least.

Well, I was being flip but that's no excuse trunkstheslayer, mea culpa. It'd be an extremely narrow view of gender, agreed, not so much of sex I don't think (though even then, there're arguably at least 3 - male, female and intersex so "both" doesn't cover it). Gender and how someone self-identifies seems to me to be about a lot of stuff like politics, self-image and culture as much as about biology. To put it bluntly, as far as she's concerned from a "mechanical" perspective, there're people with man parts, people with woman parts and people with neither or some combination of both BUT the psychological element of her work is, I agree, a whole other, more complicated thing depending on how clients think of themselves etc.

That said though, we don't see Inara have sex with anyone but (apparently) biologically "typical" male and female people (doesn't mean she doesn't/won't have sex with other types of folk, just means assuming she does isn't based on what we see) and we know the Sereniverse doesn't have aliens (so no possibility of 4th, 5th, 6th etc. sexes) and we also (meaning no offence) don't really know what sort of stuff "someone like Inara" finds acceptable or not. She seems liberal but being liberal obviously doesn't necessarily mean anything goes. As a professional she'd likely pride herself on broad acceptance and accommodation of differences but she may well still have a line or a preference so (even being unflip ;) I still think 'pansexual' is overly general. She might be but we don't know, extrapolating from "has sex with men and women, preference unknown" to "has sex with every sex and gender of human, no preference" doesn't really seem justified to me. Mileage varies though, as always ;).
She's a hands-on sex therapist - correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like every one of her engagements was about enhancing a client's social or emotional well-being (at least as far as she was concerned) When it comes to her private love life it's always seemed pretty obvious to me which way (or should I say rowards whom?) she swings.

[ edited by brinderwalt on 2010-08-18 23:10 ]
She certainly prefers Mal (and Mal is ... *quickly checks DVDs* ... a man). But in fairness that doesn't necessarily mean she has a sexual preference (or even that it's for men - as Ianto says of Jack Harkness in 'Children of Earth' "It's not men, it's him") though FWIW that's also how it seems to me.

And agreed, to me it's a mistake to conflate her job role with her personal preferences.

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