Hmmmm. More stuff from James about Joss hating him. I'm still confused about whether he's being serious or just sardonic. I hope it's the latter, especially as seeing how close we were to getting a Spike movie made.

Matt7325 | October 18, 00:36 CET

I was thinking the same thing. It's kind of interesting, though.

jesse | October 18, 01:34 CET

It's kind of ironic since Joss said in an interview that he likes Spike better than Angel. Also, I think there was a link here a while back where Joss said he considered Spike his most fully developed character. Hmm...

KaileeA42 | October 18, 04:47 CET

Joss, above anybody, can distinguish character from actor. He's perfectly capable of being proud of Spike, the character, while not being fond of James the actor. I wish he was, because the two are awesome in combination, but it's telling that he's not apparently part of the "Whedon Repertory Theatre" who have appeared in several different Joss enterprises.

Again, I wish he was. JM illuminates anything he's in, IMO.

Gill | October 18, 05:42 CET

"Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass."

Sometimes it's still a good idea though.

NotaViking | October 18, 05:57 CET

I was actually under the impression that Joss liked James. I know I've heard him speak fondly of him in a couple DVD commentaries. In Chosen, he was saying he loved Jame's ability to go from serious to funny and his 'shiny shiny hair'. Also, in his commentary on Angel's 'Conviction' he talked about being disappointed that he didn't work with James much because he only showed up in one scene. I'm pretty sure they hung out at Joss's house too, with other writers and cast members. So I do think their friendly. This is confusing me. I think James thinks Joss doesn't like Spike as much because of the way Joss didn't want to have sympathetic vampire characters; he felt it ruined some of the metaphor.

KaileeA42 | October 18, 06:10 CET

I think the written word is confusing and maybe we need to hear Marsters saying it. Could be like Joss...Oh Whedonesque porn

anca | October 18, 06:26 CET

Joss, above anybody, can distinguish character from actor. He's perfectly capable of being proud of Spike, the character, while not being fond of James the actor.

I gotta wonder if the apparent "hate" is more a case of disparate methodologies (i.e Joss and James are good if work's not involved, but it's Hoffman-Olivier on the set of Marathon Man when it is)...

BlueEyedBrigadier | October 18, 06:36 CET

Aw, Joss, James loves you - the best way to show him how much you think of him is to sneak him into one of your upcoming projects - with tights (for superhero/villain related reasons). It would mean a lot to me-- I, uh, I mean James.

LOL James' gal is a slasher! Pat sure has good taste ;)

Mirage | October 18, 07:17 CET

I always thoght that James many times said that Joss didn't liked Spike, not him, and that he loved Joss' scripts. He just wished to have worked more with Mr. Whedon.

Brasilian Chaos Man | October 18, 09:17 CET

Wasn't that a general thing of those times, like no woman could act (the same happening even in Japan - Kabuki)?


When did James made a female character?
He wore a dress and lipstick, in Amber Benson's Chance, but it's all I can remember.


Intereting, I allways wondered the opposite thing. Spike (William) was allways a romantic, even after becames a vampire. Only his strong heart breakings (Cecille, his vamp-mother, Dru "being" with Angel) had drove him to build a strong carcass (as Spike) in a way to protects himself/looks like a bad boy.

Brasilian Chaos Man | October 18, 11:27 CET

Really don't like reading that Joss 'hates' JM. I love thinking about all the alum as one big family, and that revelation or opinion or whatever it is makes my stomach hurt.

I consider James to be one of the 'verse's finest actors, he does elevate the material. And of course we know Joss is this amazing genius.

I want them to like each other. :/

Willowy | October 18, 11:41 CET

I think he's joking about Joss hating him, and he's more referring to the anti-Spike feelings Joss has/had, as KaileeA42 mentioned. And I think that perhaps James feels that Joss begrudges him for the popularity of Spike.

otacon129 | October 18, 12:17 CET

I feel that Joss does begrudges James for the popularity of Spike. I also think that the unmentionabble scene broke up a couple of friendships as far as JM was concerned at least Still JM is on record saying he would do anything that Joss asked him to. Many things could have happened after that. Anything else would be speculation way too far out to think about. I do believe that Joss does not like James, although he did. I also think that there is some irony in Joss saying that he liked Spike better than Angel. I think he doesn't like either of them. I thik he would like to push all vampires off the Reichenbach Falls and never think of them again. In short, I don't necessarily think it reflects badly on either man. Just call it irreconcileable differences. Joss just seemed to move on to Firefly and the old cast didnt fit in. (Adam Baldwin and JM seem to get along, though. Amazing concidering thei politics.)

cmbackshane | October 18, 13:05 CET

James Marsters was part of the group of people who used to go over to Joss Whedon's hosue and do Shakespeare there (Mr. Whedon reportedly came up with Illyria based on seeing Amy Acker play one of the wicked daughters in "King Lear" at one of these events). Pretty sure they don't hate each other. I think when people actually *do* hate each other, they don't say so on the convention stage - they are instead very polite about one another. As for playing women, Mr. Marsters has done a lot of audio books, where he narrates and plays all the roles, male, female, adult, child, human, nonhuman, etc., so I'm guessing that's what he's referring to in discussing when he's played women.

Shapenew | October 18, 13:59 CET

Well only the two people know their own (and perhaps not the others) true feelings. I did take James' comment that it (a call from Joss about work) isn't a call he can expect to be an indication that he doesn't believe Joss likes him at present (whatever their former history might have been). That may be based on real information, a gut feeling about subsequent interactions (there were some - like the Paley event) or delusion. But it seemed to be an expression of a genuine feeling and I recall him expressing a similar sentiment when asked about appearing on Dollhouse. Too bad if true as I think they made some
Beautiful music together.

baxter | October 18, 14:19 CET

When did James made a female character?
He wore a dress and lipstick, in Amber Benson's Chance, but it's all I can remember.

He does a lot of female characters when reading The Dresden Files books.

redeem147 | October 18, 14:46 CET

Yes, the Dresden Files...he does a great female, as well as everything else he does.

luvspike | October 18, 17:43 CET

I want them all to be a big happy family as well, but I've heard (in person with my own ears) James say that Joss doesn't like him and he means it ... he's not being sardonic or kidding around. He believes (whether or not it's true) that Joss doesn't like him.

resa | October 18, 20:40 CET

Heh. Maybe Joss is just a one bromance at a time kind of man. And as long as Nathan Fillion holds his heart there just isn't room for another!
My feeling is that Joss doesn't like James, based solely on the fact that Joss doesn't use him. He's the only main actor in the verse that has stated unequivocably that he would do whatever Joss asked, without the need for script approval like SMG, or DB have, and still no call. Even Dushku turned Joss down on the first project he wanted. So I'm thinking there is something to it. Whatever it is. Who knows?

[ edited by Xane on 2010-10-19 05:56 ]

Xane | October 18, 20:52 CET

To be fair, nearly every major verse actor says that about Joss, and they haven't all been used in other projects. For instance Morena Baccarin said just a few days ago she'd never turn down an opportunity to work with Joss, but we're still yet to see her as anything beyond Inara.

Matt7325 | October 19, 00:10 CET

We know Joss is good friends with Alyson Hannigan, but she has not turned up in anything other than "Buffy"/"Angel." Joss did like James Marsters well enough to write him onto "Angel." Let's see the people who've worked with Joss over several projects (not counting those who moved between "Buffy" and "Angel" in the same role). First of all, the hat-trick guys ("Buffy," "Angel," "Firefly"): Jonathan Woodward, Andy Umberger, Carlos Jacott and Jeff Ricketts. The others I can think of: Nathan Fillion, Adam Baldwin, Summer Glau, Alan Tudyk, Gina Torres (pretty clear he loves his "Firefly" folks), Alexis Denisof, Felicia Day. (Not sure whether Chris Hemsworth entirely counts, as I think he came pre-cast to "Avengers.") Joss Whedon was quoted as saying he wanted Morena Baccarin to play Eve on "Angel," but there was a scheduling conflict. I don't take this to mean there's some sort of personal issue with, say, Anthony Stewart Head. It just hasn't worked out. This isn't to say that this positively means there *isn't* an issue, but Joss Whedon has plenty of actor friends who have so far appeared in only one work. Joss has often said something to the effect that he didn't want the casting to be distracting, and in the context of a Joss Whedon work, casting James Marsters would pull a certain segment of the audience out of whatever story/character was supposed to be happening and into a comparison with Spike. (The only two more distracting pieces of casting I can think of would be Sarah Michelle Gellar and David Boreanaz.) This is no reflection on James Marsters' versatility or Joss' imagination in writing/casting, just that it would have to be a very specific role *not* to immediately invite a Spike comparison in the context of the two of them working together. IMHO, of course.

Shapenew | October 19, 07:09 CET

Maybe for James's next Q&A someone should ask him 'why' he thinks Joss hates him ...

I think it's clear that Joss is personal friends with many of the people that have worked for him ... and is not personal friends with others that have worked for him. That doesn't mean he hates the 'non friends', it's natural. Being friends is different than being co-workers. But as far as James is concerned ... he thinks Joss hates him. There must be more to it than he just hasn't gotten a call.

resa | October 19, 07:25 CET

I think we might be making a bit too much of the specific word 'hates'. Some people use it quite casually as in "We don't really get on" and others reserve it for times when there's active, vehement dislike as in "I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire".

Particularly in a casual setting in front of people, you might say 'hates' semi-facetiously when you actually don't mean much more than "We're not friends" (or you might say it entirely facetiously when you mean "Hey Joss, giz a job !" ;).

Need to see/hear it said. Text is tricky that way, it's like the David Copperfield of communication (but with less puffy sleeves).

Saje | October 19, 07:53 CET

Sorry, but James has said a lot of negative things about Joss and James and Joss and Spike. He has said Joss thought Spike ruined the theme of the show, he has said Joss was going to fire him, he said Joss hated that he had those cheekbones.James' post series statements haven't always been wise considering he says he would like to work with Joss again. Personally, I don't think James Marsters knows what he's talking about.James also took that "best ingenue" statement Joss made on the DVD of Angel season 5 very personally. Maybe he's just an ultra sensitive type prone to misinterpreting things said or done (aka jackass)
Maybe Joss isn't crazy about him but hate is a strong word and somehow I doubt Joss hates James.

biffsbabe | October 19, 10:42 CET

I think we're rapidly descending into tabloid speculation about two people that none of us really know anything about. And when people starting using terms like "jackass" it tends to get my back up. So if language like that is used about cast & crew in future, there will be actions and not words from me.

This thread is now getting locked probably indefinitely.

Simon | October 19, 12:01 CET