I understand the gratefulness for Serenity, but I think this writer doesn't understand that the "cheapness" of Firefly was a deliberate choice. The handheld camera, grittiness... it was all a plan.

It always makes me sad when people think choices are just flaws. There's a big difference.

Kiba | November 17, 21:14 CET

I agree -- Firefly worked better as a movie.

I've always felt I'm sort of the perfect audience for Serenity, as those who've never seen Firefly tend to like it okay, but find it a little confusing and hollow without knowledge of the show, while those who loved Firefly unabashedly don't like the areas where it deviates from the show.

Whereas my view has always been that Firefly was a good show with a game cast and a lot of potential, but that it took forever to get going and even its best episodes had a lot of iffy aspects. Serenity, for me, solved the problems of the show.

Now, I'm not saying Objects In Space, Ariel, War Stories, Out Of Gas and Our Mrs. Reynolds aren't great episodes of television (they are), just that I liked the show with reservations, but I flat-out loved the movie.

bonzob | November 17, 21:22 CET

Hmm. While the increased budget, cinematography and overall sense of urgency in the movie were improvements I would have rathered that we had 5 more seasons of Firefly then the movie.

war_machine | November 17, 21:24 CET

Nope. No way. Not even close. I love Serenity, but the idea of multiple seasons of Firefly? Ugh, my nerd heart aches at the thought of what might have been.

Though I agree with the author on Arrested Development (three great seasons is more than I hoped for) and his entire "Shows canceled too soon" list.

kishi | November 17, 21:25 CET

Yeah, it's a very hedged list since he actually loved all of the shows, so the whole thing feels a little stunt-y and page-count-grabby :).

zeitgeist | November 17, 21:39 CET

I honestly think he put Firefly in there just for the flame views. I don't see how anyone can think that cancelling a show before it gets one full season is fair... ever, let alone the fact that the reasons he gave are honestly quite superfluous since, had the show run longer, it would have changed. (what I mean by this is that clearly the show had grander plans that would eventually lead to a larger storyline with the "sense of urgency" as well as hopefully a larger budget.)

In all honesty though I do believe that Firefly would be less loved if it had more time. Joss would have put the people we love so much through trails and fights that would break our hearts and eventually kill some off. While I have no doubt that i would still love every second of it, I know it wouldn't be the same.

Hawkbat | November 17, 21:43 CET

Horrible. Don't agree with any of them.

Wyndam_ | November 17, 21:47 CET

I completely agree with his point about arrested development. Although I adored that show and would obviously love to watch new episodes every week until the day I die, I think the point it ended was the right place. However, this is why I disagree with his views on firefly.

To use his descriptions of arrested development, firefly never got to reach the conclusion of its novel. You could argue that Serenity was that end, and I think there's some validity to that. To me, however, serenity was too distinct from firefly to be considered the same novel. This didn't make me love serenity any less, but it's definitely a different entity than the series.

aroomacanvas | November 17, 21:48 CET

I would have loved to have 7 Seasons of Firefly, just the thought of how amazing it would of been makes me want to cry, but on the other hand, Serenity is a perfect wrap-up for the series.

Winchester | November 17, 22:07 CET

I agree with war_machine.

Nebula1400 | November 17, 22:25 CET

Totally disagree. I didn't like Serenity much... didn't feel it worked as a movie. Absolutely loved Firefly.

fortunateizzi | November 17, 22:40 CET

Serenity was a good movie. Firefly was an excellent show aiming to be great. I also miss what we never had.

redeem147 | November 17, 22:48 CET

Wow, I'm surprised. I'd have thought Angel would make a list like that instead of Firefly.

menomegirl | November 17, 23:10 CET

On rewatching, I've learned to love Serenity a bit more, enough to overcome my initial disappointment that everything felt too rushed and too shallow. But Firefly . . . Firefly I loved from its first five minutes, and never stopped. Maybe into its fifth season, we would have been asking ourselves whether it had already peaked - but I would have been strangely willing to take that chance. :-)

SoddingNancyTribe | November 17, 23:26 CET

I love that we have Serenity but Firefly was kind of its own wonderful thing and I've got to say I think I'd trade Serenity for another season of Firefly. (And while we're at it, why do I have to trade one for the other, why can't I have both? Bring back Firefly I say...)

daylight | November 17, 23:35 CET

I actually agree with the inclusion of Arrested Development. Its my third favourite show of all time, behind Firefly and Buffy (in that order), but its just perfect as it is. It didn't need another season, its just...complete. The whole. However, I'm incredibly excited about the movie, anything to get that group of people back together again. Enough time has passed to warrant the Bluths being dusted off. I can't wait to see Gangy.

Saying all that, the author is completely wrong about Firefly and needs pushing into the engine of a spaceship.

Apocalypse | November 17, 23:36 CET

SNT-Why did you think Serenity was shallow? Just curious.

(I watched the movie and liked it, which lead to me watching Firefly)

menomegirl | November 17, 23:46 CET

So, Firefly was "cheap" and "slight" and you were glad it was cancelled? Probably the best show ever on TV and you were glad it was cancelled? Did you even watch one episode? I doubt it. You call Firefly "silly", Mr Moore, yet you say Veronica Mars was "near perfect", are you high? Glad you liked Serenity, but as for your critique of Firefly, kiss my a**.

mutt999 | November 18, 00:10 CET

I agree with him about 'Studio 60' - at the time one of the best pilots in years but sadly it was all down hill from there.

That said, I need more space than a single internet can provide to describe how much I disagree about 'Firefly'. Watched in order, it hit the ground running faster and more surefootedly than any other TV show i've seen. Ever. I love 'Serenity' too so i'll take both but given the choice, i'dve rather had another season of 'Firefly', no question.

And IMO there's some fairly colossal point missage re: 'Twin Peaks' too - "The story of the special agent sent to investigate the death of Laura Palmer was a mystery...", true, but played straight it's like a bajillion other TV series, it was the "Lynchian bullshit" that made it unique in the television landscape (and of course it was self-indulgent but so what ?).

(in general the list itself does smack slightly of flamebait, particularly when he uses words like 'silly' or 'slight'. If it's his honest opinion then fair play to him though, needless to say he's entitled to it)

Saje | November 18, 00:16 CET

mut999, here we like to play the ball instead of the man. Consider yourself warned.

Simon | November 18, 00:19 CET

Saje, completely agreed on Twin Peaks. He complains about "Lynch bullshit" and claims it was a murder mystery... funny how it was only when Lynch left after the network forced him to focus on the murder mystery that the show lost track and audience and, well, got cancelled. Nobody would still be talking about it 20 years later if it really had been just a murder mystery.

| November 18, 00:24 CET

Firefly has a lot of traits not in its favor, but silliness? Yeah, gotta agree the words seem chosen to elicit a response.

Sunfire | November 18, 00:48 CET

Serenity didn't feel like a conclusion to me. It felt like the rising action just before the climax. Serenity (which came from what would have been season 2) always felt like the gateway into the true meat of the show. The end of the first act. I can't believe we will never get to see what happens next.

I left a big moany comment on that article. I hope he likes it.

Bobathin | November 18, 01:30 CET

I tend to agree with his POV on Firefly, while i wish it didnt get cancelled and had a few seasons under its belt, i actually loved the movie far more than the show.

Also agree about AD, even though i want more (in the form of a movie) I dont want it to be made in case it sucks or is nowhere near the quality of the show.

Frketson | November 18, 01:33 CET

Don't agree, but I also felt that it was much more compelling as a tv show then it was as a feature film.

brinderwalt | November 18, 01:37 CET

If it came between having just the movie or just season 1, I'd pick season 1 and never look back. It worked much better as an ensemble cast show than a movie where it is difficult to showcase each character and explain their story within a 1.5-3 hour timeframe.

iwearthecheese | November 18, 03:28 CET

Rubicon, Firefly, and Twin Peaks? Man. Zack Whedon is probably pissed at this guy.

darua | November 18, 03:45 CET

Does anyone actually agree???

About Firefly, I would say an emphatic "No". I would gladly give back Serenity to have had Firefly get a full series life, whatever that would have meant. I loved the film but I care about Joss more and when I read that he still thinks about the show being gone, every day, it's hard to contemplate the grief of that artistic loss. Things are what they are, but in a better flip of the Universe's dice, I'd rather have seen Firefly get the five seasons Angel did.

Tonya J | November 18, 04:05 CET

Wow, Tonya J, that's a tough decision to make. So much greatness in those 5 seasons of Angel, and it's guaranteed. You're taking Firefly based solely on potential, which I agree, was about a light year ahead of Angel after 14 episodes. Hmm... I'd probably take that risk too, but I do so love a lot of Angel.

Interesting thought. And yes, would give Serenity back for that full series life of Firefly. In a heartbeat. But I do love Serenity just as much. It just felt like the next step to me, while condensed quite a bit.

guidedby | November 18, 09:28 CET

Man, that's like frikkin' Sophie's Choice or something (except, y'know, hard ;). 'Firefly' was so great just in the 14 we got and had so much potential that i'm inclined to take the swap BUT as you say guidedby, the greatness of 'Angel' is already in the hand whereas the potential of 'Firefly' is still in the bush and on that basis, I have to go with the sure thing. Very tough choice though (even hypothetically ;).

Saje | November 18, 10:30 CET

The actual write up was kinda like praising with faint damning.
I really love Serenity. What I'd loved to have seen is about five seasons of Firefly, then a spin-off movie.

Shey | November 18, 15:43 CET

Apologies for typos etc. Posted on phone that seems to have messed up the keyboard since an update.

Enjoy Serenity, but would definitely take more Firefly over it. The film just didn't give enough time and space to those fantastic characters that I had grown to love so much. Despite what some of them may have said, they just weren't given their time to soar. Taken on it's own terms, Serenity was a great action sci-fi film. Compared to the series... well you can't even attempted it.

As for his other choices, i loved Studio 60. I really don't get the complaint that it wasn't funny enough. Sure, the sketches seemed to fall a bit flat, but there was plenty humour to be found elsewhere. It also never disrtracted from the drama. It was definitely rushed in the final episodes, something that wouldn't have happened if it hadn't been cancelled. I can't really complain about anything else. And that pilot was just simply incredible.

Baffled by Twin Peaks. To claim that it was the murder mystery aspect of the show that was the draw and not that whole trippy feel of the show is just crazy talk. The dip in quality when Lynch left is just in the extreme, so anyone attempting to claim that he was a detriment to the show is nonsensical (I did quite enjoy the few final episodes before the amazing Lynch finale though, but the long drag of about five episodes in between the middle of season 2 and then were close to unbearable.)

[ edited by Vandelay on 2010-11-18 19:27 ]

Vandelay | November 18, 19:12 CET

I did not connect with Firefly like I did with BtVS, but I always recognized the quality and potential. Even so, it still amazes me when I watch it and as the years have gone by it has become dearer to my heart. So no, his assessment does not make sense to me and I don't agree. (I thought it would be Dollhouse.)

newcj | November 18, 21:43 CET

Not to be a dick, but I can't see how anyone thinks Arrested Development is 100% perfect and amazing and should remain untouched forever. Don't get me wrong, it's my favorite comedy show ever, but... Am I the only one who noticed the last season was beyond rushed? Not that I didn't love every second, because I did. And not that it's the shows fault, because Fox changed it from a 22 episode season to a 13 episode season. But seriously, it's annoying how people say "Arrested Development was perfect in every single way ever" When most of the plot points of the last season happened in the "Previously, on" or "Next time, on". And I literally mean the "Previously, on Arrested Development" would have actual developments and huge plot points that weren't in the previous episode. It happened a little in season 2 (which was cut from 22 episodes to 18 episodes, as they make joke about) but not nearly as much.
I'm not trying to insult Arrested Development, one of the best shows of all time, it's just that the selective amnesia of peope irritates me.

[Edited to clarify]

[ edited by DeezyG on 2010-11-19 01:04 ]

DeezyG | November 18, 22:32 CET

"I'm not trying to insult Arrested Development, one of the best shows of all time, it's just that the selective amnesia of peope irritates me"

Unfortunately, if another persons opinion annoys you because it doesn't fit with your own, then I'm afraid there isn't much I can help you with, nor is there much I can respond to.

Apocalypse | November 21, 18:17 CET