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January 10 2011

(SPOILER) Preview for Spike #4. Brought to you by Comic Book Resources.

Eheheeee! Spike and Drusilla are snogging! For five consecutive panels! ^_^
I hope people like the pages, but SPIKE # 4 was in stores last Wednesday. CBR is a little behind.
I thought it was too, but for some reason my comic book store said that it was out this week. I wasn't even paying attention to the numbering when I posted the link.
I got my copy of Spike #4 in Santa Fe, New Mexico last Wednesday, and I really enjoyed it... but evidently (at least I heard) that delivery was delayed to NYC.
Thus far, not impressed. However, I will reserve judgement until I've read it in its entirety.
I got my copy last Wed. too and really enjoyed it.
Brian normally has the character voices down pat, but I can't believe how out of character Drusilla is written here (and by "here" I mean all the currently available "Spike" issues).

[ edited by Enisy on 2011-01-11 01:08 ]
Sorry you feel that way. Dang.
Hey Enisy! Nice to see you!!

[ edited by Maggie on 2011-01-11 04:36 ]

[ edited by Maggie on 2011-01-11 04:37 ]
Awesome pages! When Spike and Dru snog, they don't do it halfway.

Also, something about this medium (or the writer, hey, due credit) has made Groo about a million times more endearing than he was on the show.

Looking forward to seeing more of this.
Love Spike's thought process during the snog. I am looking forward to getting this. The art looks good too.
There's one panel where Dru actually looks like Dru. That's nice. Still doesn't sound like Dru, though...
Agreed. She sounds too sane. However, I am somewhat distracted by the snogging...
Don't feel Bad Brian, I'm loving this storyline, the art could be better but the writing is amazing and funny. You should be very proud of all the effort you're putting into this. I'd be happy to see you return for seaosn nine's Spike or Angel series, if that's possible. I got this last week aswell, silly CBR!
WILLOW IS COMING YAY!
I think the problem people are encountering with Drusilla is the fact that she's in comic book form. Drusilla may have been crazy but what made her crazy was more then just about what she said, it was about how she acted. In the comic book all we get is the dialogue so we can't get the full on crazy experience. so people are having trouble with it.

[ edited by Nathan on 2011-01-11 10:58 ]
I don't think that the change in medium has anything to do with it. We saw Dru in comics before, one even being canon(Tales of the vampires). And those portrayels were much closer to the tv-version of her. My issues here lie purely with how the relationship is shown as again not something that i see Spike feeling down/depressed about. Neither the last Spike we saw on tv(Ats5) or the latest Spike we've seen(Btvs8) would be troubled by Dru as this Spike is. Soulles Spike who was lost to her had no trouble dusting her for Buffy in season 5. Spike with a soul(nr1 heroic vampire in the world) should be totally out of her reach. But given the past portrayel of the Spike/Angel relationship i can't say i was suprised that they would also get Spike/Dru wrong. Don't even get me started on the whole soul mess that they try to force on Spike in every story. I hate retcons and W&H,John had nothing to do with Spike getting a soul. Spike fought,earned,almost died getting his soul back.
No thanks, Idw had the Spike license for 5 years. I would rather DH do their own thing as they've been doing great so far. Their portrayel of Spike in the comics has by far been the best and i'm superglad that they rejoined him with Buffy and the scoobies which is where he belongs.
When did Drusilla get Jessica Rabbit's body and start talking like a normal person? Meh. Bad writing/direction there.
At the end of Buffy s7, Spike had matured and was a champion. Then when he went on Angel s5, they grew him back down to a bit of a jerk (a lot of the dialog during the big fight scene over the cup of Moutain Dew was just not him. He gave his life for Buffy and now he was reduced to making jokes about their sex life, I never understood that). Now in the comics, he has been further reduced to clown. He never has any serious moments, only shallow thoughts and I could never see him snogging Dru as he should be way past that now, at least the Spike I loved at the end of Buffy s7 was. I enjoy the comics, but they are just not Spike anymore. I really, really miss that Spike...
@vergil. I also really love the way DH is portraying Spike. Joss actually sees Spike on a trajectory from his past, rather than drawing random elements from his past and assuming they're still in the mix without having evolved. Indeed, Joss says that Spike is the most evolved character in the 'verse. So I find it annoying that IDW keeps de-volving him. I've never gotten the big love for Brian's take on Spike. DH's Spike is quietly poetic the way the real Spike was, and has grown into his own man. And like you say, there's no way that souled-up Spike would have *more* trouble leaving Dru behind than did unsouled Spike from *years* back in Crush. Anyway, not the thread to praise DH's take on Spike. I hear we'll get more of it in season 9 and I can't wait. I'm one of the folks who was very happy with the news that all of Joss's characters will again be back under his control, because I don't think IDW does justice to any of them.

@Nathan. Read Drusilla's dialogue from BtVS. It reads crazy cakes without Juliet's acting. The problem here is that the writing really is dreadful. Or maybe there's a plot twist coming and we'll learn that this isn't Dru at all (which is what would make most sense of the mash that's been made of her character).

[ edited by Maggie on 2011-01-11 17:30 ]

[ edited by Maggie on 2011-01-11 17:30 ]
Aaaaaaand Maggie is off my 2011 Christmas Card list.
And Vergil, when did it ever say that John had anything to do with Spike getting his soul? If that's what you took from it, my apologies, but that's not the story. It's spelled out exactly very very soon, but Spike fought for his soul, he would have had it restored with or without John.
Now in the comics, he has been further reduced to clown.


I would disagree. The Spike vs Dracula tpb was an epic trawl through Spike's past, Scott Tipton's oneshots fitted in exceedingly well within the Season 5 timeline and made Spike quite heroic. And Lynch's portrayal of Spike made the IDW comics interesting again after a long lull and got the fandom talking about them again. I have been very criticial of IDW in the past but overall I will say that they kept the flag of Spike flying high and treated him with respect.
Brian the way i understood it was that John lost his soul because Spike got his back. That's the way W&H explains it to John, that there must be balance. My problem with that is that W&H don't know anything about Spike and his soul. They are Angel's bigbad, Spike is of no importance to them and vice versa. They knew nothing and had nothing to do with Spike in season 6 when he was in Africa earning his soul from that ancient demon. It's going to be more explained soon? Fine but i'm still bored with stories that try to undermine Spike's soul(in the Angel series they had him with some dumb soul-flu) or his status as a hero(always making him look as if he's less then Angel and always having him compare himself to him). And eitherway that wasn't my main issues with this series so far. How Dru is portrayed and Spike in relation to her is.
I think it's a real shame that Idw never truelly developed the character further then what he was(or took him down a few levels on the evolutionary ladder).

Simon, i disagree.
Although those old comics were more fun because the fanbase was very small back then(long before season 8 started and Atf) and there weren't any canon/non-canon debates. I do remember hating the final issue of SpikevsDracula where the Angel-woreship is dailed up to 10 and Spike is made to look like a pathetic,unimportant vampire. I also enjoyed Tipton's oneshots. The problem with Idw writers(and i include Lynch in this) is when Spike is written alongside Angel, Angel is always made to look better in one way or another. Either he's smarter,stronger,morally superior,etc. Doesn't matter, there's always something to make Spike look like less. And in light of season8 i can confidantly say that Idw was way off the mark with their portrayel of Angel(and Spike) as he's not the perfect white knight/hero/champion that can do no wrong and get 100's of chances to rectify his mistakes.
Well, Wolfram & Hart said they did research on EACH of Angel's team-mates (I think the demon possessing John said that in issue 2, don't have the issues in front of me). Either way, Wolfram & Hart isn't always on the up and up. I'm sorry to destroy your view of the evil law firm but sometimes they...streeeetch the truth a bit?

And I don't get how it undermines Spike's soul at all. Spike still fought for it, he went out and pursued it...besides, when you see a certain scene in issue 6 (if you make it to 6, it seems like you're done with the series, which is a shame) you're gonna stand up and cheer if Spike/Spike's soul/Spike as a hero is a theme you enjoy reading/talking about.

Of course I disagree with what we did with the character of Spike. I think he has grown, and what we've done with him is pretty substantial.

Drusilla's voice not being right I can see, maybe I could have done a better job with it (and I think I have as the series goes on).

As for what you perceive as Spike and IDW's "inferiority complex" as you see it, I've seen people write the exact opposite of our work: they think we make Spike too much the hero at the expense of Angel. I think it's all about point of view of the reader.

Either way, good chat. I do love you, Vergil, and I think we have a real future together. I hope I didn't make this thread awkward with this current revelation.
And Simon, thank you!
I kinda feel bad for not reading this series, since I think BL's Spike comics so far have been the best comic continuation the verse has had.

Thing is, the lukewarm version of Spike that we saw in season 8 really kinda ruined the character for me. I don't really want to start a series that will inevitably end with Spike devolving into the exposition sputtering yay sayer that was portrayed there.

It breaks my heart, but to regain my love for Buffy I think I really have to stay away from all it's comic continuations.
Spike goes out strong in SPIKE. I've written the last issue and it's pretty heroic. PLUS we get some illumination on how he met the bugs. Their back and forth make me want to do a CAPTAIN SPIKE OF THE USS BUG SHIP spin-off series.
No no Brian, i'm not quitting this series. I was there when you did your first Spike series(Asylum) and i'll be there for your last. Whatever annoyences i have with certain elements of how you write Spike they are still far outweighed by the good(mostly). And plus i'm a collector, my Spike quadrilogy wouldn't be complete without the latest series.
And don't you worry, i'm gonna be just as annoying,opinionated,critical of how DH portrays Spike.
So far i'm loving what they are doing but that could just as easily turn.

Well i would very much like to hear these examples of Spike being made to look better then Angel because i can't find any in your comics. And for that matter Spike actually had legit reasons for being better. He's the most fully developed character in the verse, more evolved then Angel. Joss's words, not mine. And looking at Spike's(and Angel in comparison) portrayel in season 8 i definitely see that. I look at Idw's portrayel of Spike(and Angel), i don't see it.

Oh no girlfriend, you did not just try to seduce me and become my sugerdaddy. Here you are promising me a life of luxery and bling while i know damn well that you are married. Your wife is gonna "snaps fingers" whoop your ass after i tell her what you promised me.
I meant a real future together in terms of internet thread back-and-forths. Oh no, now I've gone and broke your heart!
I'm not a real comic person, so I have issues with the form sometimes, I found that Issue #3 just confused me but I hope #4 will be less so (love Dru).
I find that to many off shoots of the main story , can be too much. I like 13 episodes TV show (BBC,HBO,Showtime), less of the filler episodes.
I'll be staying on until the end, I'm loving the story and writing, Good Job Brian!
Don't worry, Maggie, you're still on my reading list.
Although those old comics were more fun because the fanbase was very small back then


The fandom though more vocal now seems to be about the same size as it was back then. Though I think newer fans may not be aware of what it was like back and then and what Lynch brought to the table. Know your history and all that.
Simon, i meant the comic-fanbase. Which back then(before s8 started/announced) was amazingly small. And yes i also liked what Lynch brought to the table back then. It wasn't untill his third Buffyverse series that i started getting irritated with certain aspects of his writing.

I agree with Maggie in that s8 Spike is a more natural continuation of Spike's journey which doesn't ignore his past development. I see Idw's Spike more as Brian's Spike. Different traits and characteristics.
I'm enjoying your comments, Vergil. Cheers.

Simon, i meant the comic-fanbase. Which back then(before s8 started/announced) was amazingly small.


I gotcha. Now it seems to have taken over the online fandom even the anti-crowd. Everyone it seems is dancing to the tune of the comic books.

I see Idw's Spike more as Brian's Spike.


I think in some respects IDW is constrained because they are not allowed to go so far in character development and continuation as they would like. I'm guessing that's because of Joss, Dark Horse and 20th Century Fox. However IDW has done very well in exploring the cocky sensitive side of Spike (i.e. the laddish poet) which I quite enjoy.
Yeah, it's all about the comics these days. i think it's just because that's the only platform with new stories that we are getting from the buffyverse. I suspect that a lot of attention will be turned when/if the reboot movie gets made. Regardless if it's a good or bad movie, the fandom will talk about it.

That's true, in the beginning that was a big disadvantage for IDW. Series like Old Curse, Old Friends suffer heavily for this(that and a mediocre writer) But the fact is that eventually they did get more freedom to write the stories they wanted to and character development. Reading Idw's Spike i get a sense that they only payed attention to that one season Spike was on Angel, season 5. And not so much with all his vital/important development he had on Buffy. And even looking only at Spike in Angel season 5 without seeing where he came from, it can give a very warped,false view on the character.

An insecure,man-slut,weak,kind of dumb,whiner,massive inferiority-complex,comic-relief pathetic sidekick. That's how to me Brian's Spike come's off as. Compared to Joss's Spike(as he is now thanks to the long journey he's been on) who is strong,smart,survivor,love's bitch,a dreamer,warrior,poet,at times funny(points are deducted for "scared-hair", that was just plain terrible) in a totally different way then Brian's Spike and not overdoing it, fights destiny and believes we make our own fate,brave,is only insecure in regards to Buffy's love which is an ongoing storyline,ect. Even if he's a vampire, for me he shows the best that humanity can be. Changing 180degrees from what he was, an evil monster to a champion/hero that still happens to be a monster. Not letting what you are define you. In that way i consider Spike to be very much like Hellboy in that they were/are both monsters, both were created by evil to do evil. Because of love both rebelled and are now one of the best heroes in their respective verses.

Well thank you Emmie. I'm actually sad to say that i'm paying Simon to keep talking to me. No but seriously thanks for that, it's always nice to get a compliment.
Yeah, the discussion threads for these tend to not go very far. Still it was nice to find many of my thoughts echoed in your comments (because apparently I only enjoy validation? Don't we all?).

I'm actually sad to say that i'm paying Simon to keep talking to me.


My bubble's burst. Alas. ;)

An insecure,man-slut,weak,kind of dumb,whiner,massive inferiority-complex,comic-relief pathetic sidekick. That's how to me Brian's Spike come's off as. Compared to Joss's Spike(as he is now thanks to the long journey he's been on) who is strong,smart,survivor,love's bitch,a dreamer,warrior,poet,at times funny(points are deducted for "scared-hair", that was just plain terrible) in a totally different way then Brian's Spike and not overdoing it, fights destiny and believes we make our own fate,brave,is only insecure in regards to Buffy's love which is an ongoing storyline,ect.


Hear, hear to every line! (Even the "scared hair" insult which was not Spike-worthy. Spike's much better with his insults. "Poor Watcher. Did your life flash before your eyes? Cuppa tea, cuppa tea, almost got shagged, cuppa tea.")
Thank you Vergil...that is what I was trying to say.
Thanks Emmie. It's not the first time I've gotten some big love from Brian. It's weird having the writer run around snarking at me everytime I say what I think of his work. When I publish my stuff, I expect a few thumbs downs along with the thumbs ups. It comes with the territory.

I also thought "Scared Hair" was a flop. I think that was Scott. I still have a big heart for DH's Spike, though. Lots of goodness there, a stray line or so notwithstanding.

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