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January 15 2011

The Nicest TV Bad Guys. has a list of the nicest baddies from television. Whedon characters galore.

Well they hit Boyd on the head with hammer! And where was Angel? Do we not count him as a villain in seasons 2 and 5? I mean that whole letting people die thing and killing Drogan, that's pretty villainous, and you know being the super nice redeemer of the world puts him back in the good.
Ooh and the Master! He really cherished his time with the Annointed one and Darla, like a doting father, like a mayor of some sort...

Also, they commented on Harmony in S8, that was unexpected.
I loved seeing Weyoun and Gul Dukat there. Man, I love that show. xD

I'm really glad they got the mayor in there. And at #3! He was immediately who I thought of when I saw what the list was about. He's one of my favorite Whedon villains, and I really do think he had a genuine love for Faith, in a fatherly way, despite how evil he was and how selfish his intentions were.
The Mayor was my first Whedonverse thought so I'm glad to see him there. Agree with 1-3 absolutely! Overall a good list.

BlueSkies: The real question is, do you really think Angel is *nice* enough to qualify while locking lawyers up or killing Drogyn?

I was surprised not to see Holland Manners, though.
Spike but no Angel? That makes it a strange list to me (Whedon character wise).
And I don't see enough good in Jubal Early to rate a spot, I've always perceived him as pure evil.

I also thought Brother Cavell was an odd pick for BSG. There were so many morally ambiguous characters on that show, but there was nothing nice about Cavell, IMO.

As for other shows .... I really don't watch that much TV, I didn't recognize most.
That picture is not Herrick, it's Seth. Big difference, since Seth is just plain evil (and dumb).

EDIT: I just noticed it says Herrick's actor is Adrian Lester. Herrick is played by Jason Watkins. A couple of mistakes in that entry.

[ edited by Walkdogger on 2011-01-15 11:44 ]
T-Bag was a nice guy ????
WilliamTheB, yeah other than a few bad things he was quite nice to most people he helped and with Gunn, Fred, Cordy, Wes and Doyle he really was a nice guy. Plus the Buffy connection. He helped the helpless, it's gotta make up for the occasional lawyer death or Drogyn murder...ahem. Everyone has a bad day!
I just noticed it says Herrick's actor is Adrian Lester. Herrick is played by Jason Watkins. A couple of mistakes in that entry.

Not easy ones to make either, given that Adrian Lester's black.

Some very odd choices on there which bend the definition of 'nice' to breaking point IMO, committing an error you see quite often which is to say, mistaking being a rounded character (i.e. not a simplistic cackling villain) for being nice (or with this list specifically, in a lot of cases just having good manners apparently makes you nice. Utter piffle, obviously). I think that says something about the quality of most characters on TV to be honest - whenever we see a baddie that isn't an out and out black-hat then the brain circuit for putting things in nice, simple boxes goes on the fritz. But obviously no-one is an out and out, single-purposed black-hat, human beings simply don't function that way and if a character does then they're not well drawn.

And we were never tricked into rooting for a serial murderer, Dexter was always very upfront about what he is (that's a great case in point in fact since he is basically a good guy who - as it turns out - loves Harrison, Cody and Astor. He's just also a serial killer. Whether that makes him a bad man is one of the "big questions" the show asks).
BlueSkies: Well, for me I think what matters is that Angel was very rarely both nice and villainous at the same time (or during the same period!). The Mayor was quite personable even while ordering people to be killed. Jubal changed in a heartbeat.
Yeah, I think "nice" is perhaps the wrong word to use for most of these bad guys. I'd go with "nuts." ;)
Cool list. Deals with many shows that I love and contains many great characters.
(Though I can't deny that some of the characters like Scorpius, Dukat aren't necesserily what I'd call nice. At least they are certainly interesting and perhaps even likable.)

Highlights for me are Weyoun and Dukat (completely get how you're feeling, Bobathin), True Blood's Russell Edgington, Farscape's Scorpius (I haven't seen much of the series, but he seemed to be a great villian), Dexter, and of course our own Whedonverse people (esp. nice that they also mention minor characters like D'Hoffryn and Sweet).
"...other things that make exponentially less sense." HA.

Y'know, every single time they said the name "Brother Mouzon" on The Wire, I heard "Brother Moves On". Not only is my mind blown, but I'm sadly disappointed at the loss of the most creative character name ever.

There were a couple in here who I had totally forgotten, and it was a nice reunion. I'm getting out some of Mom's Old-Fashioned Robot Oil for nostalgia's sake. Also, "Now you can't have any of my potpie" is a moment I would like to see again, even if it means I have to rewatch Heroes.
I would add Elim Garak ...


and take out T-Bag *yeesh* The Mayor was creepy but I would take his demony snake self over the perv bag any day. And I NEVER rooted for Dexter, he was portrayed as the "hero" of the show. I think each episode I keep hoping he gets caught or - you know, grows a Conscious, psycho.
What, no Yo-Saff-Bridge?
I think you could argue that virtually everyone in Dollhouse is a "bad guy," with the exceptions of the dolls (at least when they're in their original or doll state).

I was expecting to see Dr. Horrible but then I realized it was TV bad guys.
They left out a lot of Spike's best moments. Like looking after Dawn and protecting her identity from Glory despite being tortured. And being all chatty and friendly with Joyce and bringing flowers to her funeral. Not to mention helping Buffy save the world from Angel, which was kind of a biggie in the nice department given that he was still evil and soul-less, and not in love with Buffy at that point.
Except it was entirely selfish (he wanted to maintain his supply of "happy-meals with legs"). By those standards i'm a lot nicer than I thought I was ;).
.... he was quite nice to most people he helped and with Gunn, Fred, Cordy, Wes and Doyle he really was a nice guy.

Um, really a nice guy with Wesley? Other than when he tried to kill him, I guess.
I think you have to distinguish between souled and souless Spike. Souless Spike`s on the same level as Angelus, which makes him generally pretty nice in comparison.

Though the article seems to be more about charming than nice.
When I got to Spike "haplessly murdering" I questioned my need to read the descriptions. But I looked at the nice piccies. Was that a Housecoat fire? Went on to check out the Badass Coats list and you know who is indeed on it, though cheated, cheated...
I was kinda expecting Yo-Saff-Bridge on the list, but it's only 50 characters and I could probably think of 50 just from Whedon shows. He tends to like bad guys that step outside the usual pure-evil mold.

There were some surprises, though, like D'Hoffryn, who wouldn't immediately have come to mind.

I love their first choice, though, in Dexter. I'd quibble with their description a bit. The show is clever at making us root for him, even as he constantly reminds us that he's evil and knows it. The show doesn't trick us in that way, but I suspect we all have different takes on precisely what the show is doing. Still, Dexter is very nice, polite and considerate for a murderer.
Saje, are you saying you like your happy meals with legs too?
Yep, it makes me feel like "Man, the Hunter" to have to chase my burger down ;).
Well that explains a lot. I like to pluck mine off shrubs. "Woman the Gatherer" and all that.
Marcus Hamilton, minion of the Senior Partners on Angel (Baldwin). I always loved that he was so polite:

Still not really buying good manners = nice. Isn't being kind and pleasant and generally good to others closer to niceness than just wearing a good suit and minding your Ps and Qs ?

I like to pluck mine off shrubs. "Woman the Gatherer" and all that.

Fulfilling isn't it, living the primitive life ? I'm lobbying McDonalds to institute much shorter average lifespans and a truly horrifying infant mortality rate but they're all health and safety this and human decency that. It's corporate red tape gone mad !

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