This site will work and look better in a browser that supports web standards, but it is accessible to any browser or Internet device.

Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"Who is this Hilton girl? It doesn't matter on a lot of levels."
11944 members | you are not logged in | 20 September 2014




Tweet







April 19 2011

Which single episode Buffy characters just didn't get enough love? A look at some Buffy characters who didn't quite get to shine as much as they deserved to.

Honestly, a lot of these are "well another episode or two might have been nice" but they are dead on with Marcie Ross. That was a psychologicaly damaged charecter with a cool super power, training (eventually) that could have had a redemption arc of her own.

I'm sad we never got to see anything.
Who was the one off random victim character that had a running storyline of his/her own?

And yeah, while they did mention that there were some interesting lapses in terms of potential recurring characters (Michael and Dawn's friends, particularly the Scrappy patrol... Though Cassie was nearly covered both of those goth and Dawn points.)...

Mostly it was that Guardian thing that came out of nowhere that wasn't nearly as cool as they seemed to have hoped it would be. I seem to remember character sides suggesting that they were hoping for a massive stunt-casting cameo since it was about a minute of screentime and thus presumably not too big of a commitment time-wise?

I managed to totally forget about that during the comics but it seems like the sort of story thread that they'd probably want to pick up again. I imagine it was an effort to give a female empowerment angle back to the Slayer mythos?

There were these women who picked these men who picked a girl to host a demon entity? ...That would then be transfered to the next girl who would be watched by the mixed gender but still predominantly male descendants/trainees of the shadowmen, who would be watched by...? This race of [immortal?] guardians who were presumably all women? Or were they just your standard cabal of humans who somehow trained themselves while remaining unknown to anyone else?
Did the Guardians actually pick the Three Old Men (I don't remember that scene too well) ? My impression was more that they were totally independent, older but paralleling the TOM/Watcher's Council (maybe even as a sort of textual nod towards various feminist theories that have our early history down as matriarchies which were later corrupted).

And yep, can't argue with No. 1, Marcie Ross was a very potentially character (small 'p'. Although... ;) and not only that, Clea Duvall is awesome, end of.


ETA: Except no CheeseMan ? List fail. If ever a character screamed spin-off it was that guy (not to mention the product placement opportunities, it stinks of franchise. And Stilton).

[ edited by Saje on 2011-04-19 10:46 ]
But didn't the cheese man already reappear in some later episode?
I was just talking the other day about The Guardians. Probably the worst example of "AND THIS IS HOW WE MUST MOVE THE PLOT ALONG" on Buffy ever.

Re: Dawn's friends. Back when Season 7 was on the air, there were rumours going round various message boards that the season got drastically re-written a couple of months before it premiered. Hence the non-appearance of Dawn's chums in later episodes. Clare Kramer was supposed to make another appearance after Lessons but that got nixed as well.
But didn't the cheese man already reappear in some later episode?

Good point, Google tells me he was in two episodes (he comes back in 'Storyteller') - list pass, Saje fail. Still not enough appearances though, I wanted to find out his backstory, what gave him substance (aside from denatured protein). Was he always CheeseMan or did he used to be MilkMan ? What was he like in his difficult curds/whey years ?
Just want to add an additional yay for Clea DuVall.

Also had completely forgotten about the Guardians. Weird, I think I just block it from my mind. They could go interesting places with it except that all of them are dead so I guess it would be like History Quest instead. Maybe that could be Willow's new hobby.
Simon, I've heard of that, re: the drastic rewriting. Do you remember any more details, and were the rumours ever confirmed?
Cea DuVall should have more time in most things, even in things she never starred in. And that character too. She could have not-appeared in Alias and other such shows. Maybe we'll get to see her in Bones?
But I also really liked the idea of more Sunday. She's a snarky blond vampire, why couldn't they have kept her for some Cordy-relief? I had hoped she'd stay.
And of course got the Ted love all over that! There's another character I thought was gonna last. I mean really, how do you tell your mom that she's dating a homicidal robot from the 50's?
Do you remember any more details, and were the rumours ever confirmed?


I can't remember much else but I think Clare Kramer mentioned somewhere in an interview that she was supposed to be back for more filming in season 7.
And no mention of Jesse and Gage?
I liked the idea of the Guardians...having an interesting and potentially deep plot point that gets eliminated before you learn anything about it (then again, I'm a David Lynch fan). However, for that to have really worked, there should have been more hints earlier on, or more details that made no sense that we could connect to them in retrospect. And it's not like Joss is stranger to crazy foreshadowing and playing the long, long, long game.

So, yeah, I agree, missed plot point, though maybe not for the same reasons that other people think so. And the world DOES need more Clea DuVall. In everything.
Ahhhh, Dracula. I would have loved to see more of that guy ... mmm, what was I saying? :)
Are you thinking of Chantarelle/Lily/Anne, orangewaxlion? Because she is indeed awesome. There's also Jonathan, of course -- and Larry. With those as examples, it does make you pine for more recurring characters.

Of course you can't make it work always -- otherwise you'd never have anybody new -- but it would have been fun.

And as for the Guardians, I sort of envision them as the women of the village of the Old Men who made the slayer, who didn't like what they saw.
I have the usual complaints about the complaints about Dawn being whiny, but other than that, great article! I haven't seen Season 7 in a long time and I'd totally forgotten how thrown for a loop I was when the Scrappy Gang never showed up again.

I'd like to see a similar list for AtS. Bethany is a personal favorite.
When Sunday first appeared I assumed we were in for a multi-episode arc from her. That would have been good. I agree with everyone about Clea DuVall too!
"Who was the one off random victim character that had a running storyline of his/her own?"

The girl who vamp!willow bites at the bronze (sandy) reappears in season 5 as the vamp who is sucking off Riley...

I totally don't remember the cheeseman being in Storyteller. I love that episode, this makes me want to watch it.

And just to third or fourth or whatever, Clea DuVall, %&$# yes!! Love her. Totally half the reason the Marcie character is so beloved IMO. But also she does have possibility...
Having Sunday be a vampire ex-slayer would have been awesome, and added a whole other layer to that episode. What if she had been the slayer whose death called Buffy! We never did find out who Buffy's immediate predecessor was.
I can't help but first interpret that sentence the dirty way Aphasia, but thanks. I guess the idea is that victim must have made some bad life choices if she gets vamped in both realities? (Or I guess it could have been from Vamp Willow coming into this world.)

And yeah Narse, I thought it could have been an interesting notion along the lines of that Jesse credits fake out they wanted to do-- set someone up as a major player and immediately kill them off-- but that woman came so out of nowhere that I was still busy trying to process any of her speech as making sense by the time she died.

I initially figured it was some sort of trick to parallel Angel's respective season about discovering a secret magical weapon to save the day and everything being just perfect and/or off enough for the audience to get suspicious. Granted Angel did ride in with his own magic weapon to help save the day.
I'm fond of Sandy. She was unique among the vampires because she had an underlying sadness. It gave her brief bar scene with Riley poignance instead of the more expected menace and sexuality.

However, her even being a vampire always bugged me a little. She seemed to have just been drained and killed, like Harmony. Neither of them received vampire blood, on camera at least, so you have to fanwank that they received it later, before they died, or just handwave it away. Which is what I do, because the characters we got are worth the slight violation of canon.

[ edited by shambleau on 2011-04-19 19:47 ]
I guess the idea is that victim must have made some bad life choices if she gets vamped in both realities?

Wasn't she bitten by Vamp-Willow in the regular (so-to-speak) reality? The same reality where she later ran into Riley?
Season 7 was going to be a lot more centered on Dawn, but it got difficult with all the potentials coming in. If not, her high school friends probably would have made a comeback. I remember before the season 5 premiere of Angel there were rumors that Marcy would make na appearance. I don't know if that was actually considered by Joss or if it was just internet gossip.
Don't you mean that Marcy would make a nonappearance?
Okay list until Marcie, then great list. She deserved more with that mysterious ending. I have a sort of similar feeling for a lot of characters on Buffy (and other shows)--characters who suddenly appear out of nowhere, but we're supposed to believe they're important or been there all along. (Just off the top of my head, the Doctor who was killing Saggitarons in season 3 of BSG, or worse, Kendra Shaw from Razor) OR characters like Holden Webster I did NOT want to see more of after CWDP, but would have liked to see before that, like in high school episodes.

[ edited by CaptainB on 2011-04-19 23:48 ]
Adam Baldwin's character on Stargate SG-1, it felt so incredibly well written for a one-episode slot (yes I know it was really a two-parter but still). I always wondered if he was supposed to be a regular on the show.
I've always been all about Sunday - she was one of my favorite baddies, and having her be a former Slayer? Awesome.

I still like the idea of having the actress back from time to time as another one of her vamp 'sisters' - Monday, Tuesday, Wed- you get the picture.
Oh yeah, Marcie - is anyone thinking about the "secret cult of Marcie Ross" that kept appearing in the S8 lettercol? It was hilarious, Scott sounded so bewildered about it. Just one of those weird fandom phenomena, I guess.
Adam Baldwin's character on Stargate SG-1, it felt so incredibly well written for a one-episode slot (yes I know it was really a two-parter but still). I always wondered if he was supposed to be a regular on the show.

I've brain tickles from the time about rumours of Adam's character appearing on 'Stargate:Atlantis' (which started at the end of the SG1 season he appears in). Shame it didn't happen if so (great episodes to appear in though).

I still like the idea of having the actress back from time to time as another one of her vamp 'sisters' - Monday, Tuesday, Wed- you get the picture.

I've got pants named after that family.

[ edited by Saje on 2011-04-20 07:31 ]
Of course you do, Saje. I would've expected nothing less. ;)
Adam Baldwin's character on Stargate SG-1, it felt so incredibly well written for a one-episode slot (yes I know it was really a two-parter but still). I always wondered if he was supposed to be a regular on the show.
Simon | April 19, 21:41 CET


Oddly enough, I've yet to catch the 2-parter with Adam's Major Dixon, though the quote from the episode where he talks to Walter about his daughters makes me wanna track it down or splurge on the box set of SG1 ;D
Late to this thread but two comments.

S7 did kind turn left after the first episode, it looked like they were really setting Dawn up for a bigger role, maybe even for her to star in a spinoff, but then totally dropped it.

Second, no love for Shonda Farr as April? She did a great job and I'd have loved for her to have stayed around.
Oh good call, totally forgot about April. What was the textual justification for not just recharging her BTW ? She could easily have come back.

Of course you do, Saje. I would've expected nothing less. ;)

Dressing yourself is already complicated right ? Keeps it simple ;).

Oddly enough, I've yet to catch the 2-parter with Adam's Major Dixon, though the quote from the episode where he talks to Walter about his daughters makes me wanna track it down or splurge on the box set of SG1 ;D

They're very good episodes BlueEyedBrigadier (at least one part was up for a Hugo) but if you're not an SG1 fan they won't mean nearly as much in isolation (though I understand that watching 7 seasons of TV just to fully appreciate two episodes Adam appears in is a fairly big ask ;).

[ edited by Saje on 2011-04-21 09:34 ]
They're very good episodes BlueEyedBrigadier (at least one part was up for a Hugo) but if you're not an SG1 fan they won't mean nearly as much in isolation (though I understand that watching 7 seasons of TV just to fully appreciate two episodes Adam appears in is a fairly big ask ;).

[ edited by Saje on 2011-04-21 09:34 ]
Saje | April 21, 09:33 CET


Oh, I'm a fan of Stargate, Saje...all the way back to the Russell-Spader theatrical release. So I don't think it would be totally out of context. Just surprised me the first time I heard about the two-parter having Adam as a herefore never shown SG team leader. And then nothing afteward, though the SGC had like 20+ teams on the roster, so it's not completely unfeasible ;)
shambleau: Ia gree, we didn't see Sandy's being sired by vampwillow. but with Harmony we just saw the beginiinnning spilt second of the attack, plenty of time to kill and sire after the cut-away.

I think Theresa could ahve had an itnerestign arc as the gan's "friend who makes them feel more normal for a while" over a feew eipsodes, then maybe have vampTheresa around briefly as a female counterpart to Angelus, maybe killed by Dur b/c she's too dnagerous.

You need to log in to be able to post comments.
About membership.



joss speaks back home back home back home back home back home