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Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
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May 02 2011

Rumour - Avengers production halted due to script leaks. According to Film Fan Review, certain scenes have be rewritten due to pics of script pages appearing online last week. Update: However according to Devin at Badass Digest, this is not the case and Marvel said it wasn't true.

So - I'm assuming that a certain script is no longer in the wild since it hardly makes sense to be going through the trouble of doing a partial re-write when more pieces could appear...
Oh boy here we go.
I'm looking forward to the Avengers.

[ edited by muviefan02 on 2011-05-02 20:31 ]
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Damn. I was hoping it was a fake after all.
I'm guessing that Samuel L. Jackson is being written out of the film.
Wow. That's annoying. It's not Whedonesque's fault. Come on. We all love spoilers. The problem is that imbecile who stole it from the set. Not very professional. And now Joss' work has to suffer all for some stupid buzz.

I guess Joss will just have to come up with a better scene :)
How reliable is this?
Speaking as someone who knows nothing about the movie business, unless the leaked scenes include a major plot point (such as the death of a major character, or revelation of a hidden motive), is a rewrite really necessary? If the writing is good, why change it just because a small portion of the audience already knows the details of a few minutes?
Oh man. That's awful. For everyone involved.

@muviefan02: I really doubt most mainstream movie fans read Whedonesque, or have even heard of it. The Avengers is huge movie and comic book news and it was going to spread like wildfire regardless. For example, the news appeared on ComicBookResources right away, a site that probably has 10 times the readership of Whedonesque.

@janef: when the Hulk hulks out is a pretty damn major plot point. In fact, I'd bet that waiting for him to Hulk Out will be on most people's top #5 moments to watch for, when they see the film. So, yeah, it rates high on the Plot Scale (that I just made up).
ETDelete.

[ edited by guidedby on 2011-05-02 16:29 ]
I don't love spoilers. I love being surprised at the theater.

[ edited by muviefan02 on 2011-05-02 20:32 ]
@dispatch: mainstream readers don't need to read Whedonesque for a story to go viral. It's the internet.. spreads like wildfire.
I seriously doubt this has the least amount of validity. Stopping production is ridiculously expensive and I have yet to see an actual reason to warrant it or any proof that it happened. I call bullshit.
I managed to avoid reading the whole thing, but got to "A scene where Iron Man...".

Shouldn't this have a spoiler tag on it?
This sounds like bologna to me ...
How reliable is this?

It's been on that one site for days, with no mainstream industry paper or site saying boo, and they'd be all over it, no?
As for Whedonesque posting the Obsessed With Film link last week, Joss posts here quite frequently, and I have little doubt that if a link here on Whedonesque were going to amplify the problem that much, Joss would have shot a "Dudes, please take it down!" message to the admins.
I admit to having read over the page or two that Obsessed With Film (if anyone's to blame, it's them, hardly Whedonesque) put up but sure didn't see much to require any rewrites unless Cap and Tony running down a hall=crucial plot twist. Broadly speaking, though, the syndrome does suck and my heart goes out to Joss and the hundreds of others working to make this a grand entertainment for us all. Always think back to Joss' comment on internet spoilers: "They beat me up, they took my lunch money."
Don't blame Whedonesque. It would have spread online anyway. I saw tons of sites with it on. Like others have said, blame the person who took and scanned it.

Doubt an actual rewrite, probably just putting that out there in an attempt to cloud up and create abit of confusion as to wether the scene scanned is what we'll see in the final film.

Hopefully the work won't suffer thats all that really matters.
For the record - it was on 36 websites on Google News (including one newspaper) before the Whedonesque post.

It's not actually true.
I believe Simon already asked that the discussion about Whedonesque posting decisions not take place here.
Feel a little hurt about muviefan02's opinion about the post last week since I posted it but then again someone else would've posted it anyways. I support Joss 100% having bought all his work and encouraged others to get into it running 10 years now. I hope that didn't veer too far into the non-discussion area Simon. If it did I'll edit this opening paragraph out.

Somehow I don't believe this. Are they only rewriting that one scene? Cause whats to stop the other pages from leaking? Are they rewriting the entire script? Kinda outrageous when it was what probably amounts to 2 minutes of screen time on the script pages not to mention it really didn't reveal anything about the plot. This is a ridiculously expensive production that is no doubt on a very tight schedule. You think Marvel is going to halt production for something they haven't even filmed yet?

I'll believe it when it shows up in the trades.

On a side note but still Avengers related issue. Scarlett Johannson had red hair at the white house correspondent's dinner. I thought she was wearing a wig in IronMan 2?
Yeah, we were twit-talking about this a few days ago - this has been flying about for over 48 hours - but in none of the sites that echo-chambered this did I see anything like a source or quote or anything but this un-backed assertion.

I don't buy it, and I'm not likely to unless someone has an attributable quote or there's a reliable source...


ETF: sloppiness

[ edited by QuoterGal on 2011-05-02 18:58 ]
Having no wish to be spoiled, I read the comments on this site but not the items the comments are linked to. I'll just make the general observation that rewrites after filming has begun are not unusual and rarely require a halt in production.

I wouldn't know a major plot point in the Avengers if it hit me in the eye, because I somehow managed to get all the way through childhood and adolescence without reading a single Marvel title. I read all the DC comics, Archie and Veronica, Little Lulu, etc. Later I read some Sixties underground and feminist comix, Watchmen, the series about the samurai rabbit, and The Dark Knight Returns, but still no Marvel. I was pretty disappointed about the Wonder Woman movie.
Mark Ruffalo
@Mruff221 Mark Ruffalo
@KasiaLi No we are still going strong. Avengers is alive and well.

From twitter. I think I'll take his word for it.
The comment about the theft having happened in LA and not on location would seem to tie in with my original comment that the pages don't have holes in them, which SLJ's personal copy of the script would have had. Looks like the leak happened in the studio or production office before the script was bound and sent out.

On the other hand if this is true it does suggest that the script is genuine.
Yeah....no.

Peter Jackson was rewriting the scripts to all three Lord of the Rings movies constantly. Sometimes the actors would go to bed with their lines memorized and wake up to a new script at their trailer door, and sometimes they'd already be on the set and get handed a new scene. They didn't have to pause production for a rewrite.

I, also, don't like to be spoiled. If I know something's going to happen, I keep waiting for it to happen, instead of going with the flow of the story and being surprised at "the thing."

And...I didn't read comics. Still don't. I read some of my mother's and her siblings' old comics, but I couldn't tell you which characters. I know Batman and Superman, I think Wonder Woman (I think I actually had a WW comic at one point; not sure how/why), and I have vague memories of a...prince who had beads in his hair, and I think his brother was black, but I don't really remember that one too well. (I want to say his name was Dan-el, and I think he wore a green tunic. I know he was blond, and there were beads at the end of his hair.)

That said, I enjoyed all three X-Men movies & both Fantastic Four movies. Maybe mostly because I didn't have expectations going in from the comics - I knew enough about the characters to want to see the movies, but I wasn't a die-hard fan. I think I read maybe one F4 comic from the Sixties, but my only exposure to the X-Men was in a 3-2-1 Contact magazine.

I've seen all 6 Batman movies, and liked them to varying degrees, but haven't seen either of the Hulk movies, or Iron Man, or any of the Spiderman movies.

I'll most likely watch Avengers because it's Joss, since I don't know any of the characters well enough to want to see the movie for any other reason. Not my cuppa.
I struggle to believe this. It's a shame that the script got leaked, and I dearly hope nobody spoils any of it (at least near my eyes and ears), but plot leaks (or indeed correct speculation) is never sufficient justification to change a good script.
I'm throwing my hat in with the "don't believe this" crowd.

Seems a bit farfetched to me that they would halt production just because of a few leaked script pages that apparently didn't even reveal anything (I refused to look at them. I hate spoilers.)
What I think is possible is that someone asked if production would halt due to a stolen script. After a few rounds of "telephone", that question morphs into a dead certainty from verified sources. (Kind of like how a few talking heads saying that Al Gore's speech makes it sound like he invented the Internet, after a few weeks became the claim that Al Gore actually said he invented the Internet.)
Why are people still considering its veracity after Mark Ruffalo point blank said they are still at work?
I can't understand why anyone ever believed this for a second in the first place.
I'm sure production did shut down for a while. Every time Joss says "Cut" they stop. And when he says "Action" they start again!
This rumor is silly. They wouldn't shut a $200 million film down because two pages are available online. Common sense, guys.
@The One True b!X

Maybe because a) the answer was taken out of context and we don't know the exact question.
b) People missed it.
c) People think that might be PR skills talking.
This is a Joss Whedon fansite. This is not a movie industry analysis site. Please, guys.

Here's a word of heartfelt advice: stop paying attention to this industrial manufacturing process and do other creative stuff until this billion-dollar corporate industrial product sees worldwide release in a few months. It's. Just. Not. Important.

(To be clear: I'm saying this to hair-yanking commenters.)

[ edited by waxbanks on 2011-05-02 20:27 ]
I added muviefan02's news to this entry, and retweeted the relevant Badass Digest tweet at our account.
Cool. Thanks Simon.
Well anyway, I look forward to the final work that is released into theatres hopefully sooner rather than later.
I heard they have to reshoot everything because some scenes appear in the preview.
stop paying attention to this industrial manufacturing process and do other creative stuff until this billion-dollar corporate industrial product sees worldwide release in a few months. It's. Just. Not. Important.

This. ^ ninethty kabillion.
Skytteflickan88: Maybe because a) the answer was taken out of context and we don't know the exact question. b) People missed it. c) People think that might be PR skills talking.

I'm not trying to be contentious at all, but I honestly don't see how much context one needs to understand Mark Ruffalo's very recent tweet - noted above - as pretty relevant to the shut-down discussion:

@KasiaLi No we are still going strong. Avengers is alive and well.

But if needed, here is the tweet from a IAmRobertHolik that prompted it:

@Mruff221 Heard filming of "The Avengers" temporarily got shut down because of some asshole. Oh well, get back to building up anger Mr Hulk.

(@KasiaLi's remark was just their related assertion about "Joss Wheadon" in which they also mentioned IAmRobertHolik's "question". Unfortunately, Mark did not include IAmRobertHolik in his reply.)

In general, I'm thinking we may want to set up snakebyte's ol' Dollhouse WHEDONesque Picnic MeterTM again.



ETF: the Usual Typos.

[ edited by QuoterGal on 2011-05-03 02:21 ]
@QuoterGal

I didn't feel there was enough context because we didn't know if he was asked "Have you shot down" and/or "Did someone leak the script?"

@waxbanks

"This is a Joss Whedon fansite. This is not a movie industry analysis site. Please, guys.

Here's a word of heartfelt advice: stop paying attention to this industrial manufacturing process and do other creative stuff until this billion-dollar corporate industrial product sees worldwide release in a few months. It's. Just. Not. Important.

(To be clear: I'm saying this to hair-yanking commenters.)"

I don't get this comment. Where does it say people shouldn't talk about movies or making movies, on the fansite of a guy who does movies? Makes sense to me.

I also don't get why you think this is non-creative compared to other stuff talked about on this site. We're online. Talking about movies. There's always going to be someone who thinks we need to get a life. But that doesn't matter, as long as we have fun/are interested enough in what we're talking about.

I hope you don't feel like I'm telling you off, or saying your views on what's important are incorrect, but since you felt free to give advice about what we should do about our time, I felt I could respond.
There was some controversy over pages of a script being leaked and that causing delays – has that impacted any of your work on “Avengers?”

No, I haven’t received any phone calls about it. My start date is still the same. I think it was a pretty old script, though. I got off the plane the other day and I found that out, but I know that script changed a lot, so it’s not the most recent version of it anyway.
-- Chris Hemsworth, WSJ

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2011-05-03 05:16 ]
So b!X, who said that? Ruffalo?

And is it only me who thinks people misspell Whedon just to fuck with our blood pressure?
Sorry, it was Hemsworth. I guess I assumed people would click the link, but that makes no sense; I should have included it. Will edit.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2011-05-03 05:16 ]
I also don't get why you think this is non-creative compared to other stuff talked about on this site. We're online. Talking about movies.

In this case we're NOT online talking about movies because where 'The Avengers' is concerned there's still no movie to talk about and won't be for A YEAR (a year tomorrow in fact, yay), we're online talking about unsubstantiated rumours about the process of making a movie the realities of which we have absolutely no control over. That's just noise to the signal of the actual movie itself.

(course, as always, it's up to the mods what stays and i'm not telling anyone what to do, just agreeing with an opinion of what, to me, would be the ideal - jumping at every little production related rumour between now and the release date is gonna get old fast IMO but to be honest, it's kind of what we do and all the advice in the world won't change that. It's just of all the things we do ? Not my personal favourite)
I don't get this comment. Where does it say people shouldn't talk about movies or making movies, on the fansite of a guy who does movies? Makes sense to me.

Saje's response covers the main point, but I'll add this:

(Please take the following as a general concern; it's not meant as a personal attack and isn't directed at any one person.)

If the Avengers production were the NSA and the stolen script were, say, a leaked list of specific surveillance projects, do you think anyone here would be angsting over whether to 'spoil' themselves by looking at the images online?

Worrying about this (I'll say it again) industrial manufacturing process is not the same as 'supporting an artist we love' or whatever, any more than buying your spouse's company's products is the same thing as talking to your spouse after work, any more than worrying about the presence of a cyclotron in Cambridge is the same thing as studying physics at MIT. Fans tend to know absolutely nothing about the process of making films, yet they take it upon themselves to drown in anxiety over ever little 'twist and turn' in that process when their fantasy-proxies (read: celebrity interests) are involved. It's not healthy despite its attractiveness. Accumulating bits of information isn't mastery, just as 'writing like Joss' isn't just 'making pop culture references.' (cf. Whedonverse comics, ahem.)

When the photo of the actors' chairs leaked, there was a nice little momentary feeling - hey they're makin' that movie we knew they were makin'! - but some folks actually spent time scrutinizing aspects of the photo. The logo, or whatever. It's 'fun' for some, but it's ultimately corrosive, because the only thing that'll ultimately flow from fans to Marvel is money. And what's flowing from Marvel to fans is carefully-controlled PR material (and Joss's occasional blog post, which is at some level barely-controlled, manic, affectionate, lovely PR material...). For us, such releases signify only that money is being spent in order to make money by entertaining us.

Fans and fan-scholars like to talk about fans' imaginative autonomy and so forth, but a fan ooing/aahing over PR photos - or bandying about rumours of a 'shutdown' on a massive industrial project about which the entire fanbase is almost completely ignorant - isn't taking part in a creative exchange. No wisdom is being gained, other than 'making movies is complicated and expensive.' No creativity is being exercised, other than the usual epic feats of wish-fulfillment.

The Avengers movie is being made, it will be better than the average superhero movie because Whedon et al. are very skilled and serious, and those things will be true whether or not we waste brain cycles on trivia today. This isn't the good stuff, the meaningful stuff. It's not serious stuff. It's trivia. There are plenty of interesting ways to engage with Joss's work, but I don't think talking about this inscrutable industrial process is one of them.
And is it only me who thinks people misspell Whedon just to fu[nk & Wagnalls 7th Edition] with our blood pressure?

As a matter of fact, it is an international conspiracy aimed specifically at you. ;)
Having sent my long crotchety comment above, lemme add that I understand that the point of talking about this stuff is for us fans to get together and talk about anything at all - a rich pretense or premise. Sure, awesome. I like fannish stuff sometimes too!

But it seems like news of this kind is the weak stuff, y'know? It's...non-news. I'm not faulting whoever posted the link, but I'd encourage folks not to get too invested in The Fate of the Stolen Script or whatever. It's inside-baseball. It's just a headache some rich guy will figure out with help from a bunch of other rich guys.
Look, we can all have different views on what's worth talking about. It's very individual, as it should be, so I won't specify exactly how I agree or disagree with you guys, since you have the right to your opinions and I don't think I can or should change them.

Just because it's not your cup of tea doesn't mean it shouldn't be ours. People are different. They like different things. They wanna talk about different things.

I mean, there's always going to be someone out there who thinks what you're doing is pointless, no matter what you do. Does that mean you should stop doing it if you're having fun because someone else think you should direct your energy elsewhere?

I spent years of my life trying to live up to what's normal, doing what others thought was important. Sure, some things really are, hard to disagree, like eating right and getting a job, but a lot of the things other people want us to do... are optionable. Then we should just do what feels right. And fun.
They like different things. They wanna talk about different things.

Of course (including, sometimes, the subject of what they wanna talk about ;). Though I actually question how many people do want to talk about this sort of thing and how many see it more almost as a chore, part of the downside of being a fan in an age where we even know these details of production in the first place. It's not something Joss Whedon's created or something inspired by one of his creations or an analysis of one or its themes, this is more like 'Bulb Blows on Avengers Set, Electrician Said to be Replacing'.

But sure, to some the "drama" of it may be exciting or fun (not, i'd assume, the content itself though since it's either non-news or bad news). Hell, maybe absolutely everyone but me and waxbanks thinks this stuff is both endlessly fascinating and fundamentally important and either way, it's not up to us what's posted or what people talk about anyway (nor should it be). In other words, as you were ;).
Statement from Marvel: "Filming on The Avengers is on schedule and going well.”"

waxbanks, you've written more about how people shouldn't spend time or thought about it than anybody else.

Peeps are always gonna kick this shit around. That's how fandom works. That especially happens when there's nothing else to talk about.

The way I look at things nowadays is that information isn't knowledge, so it's not always possible to really understand what's going on. There's too much information. So, whilst information in public isn't always helpful, I think part of these topics actually help people make sense of things.

In this case, the information is guff - The Avengers is ticking along fine, nobody has shifted their sked etc. If you'd just read one of the 60+ news articles online with subjects like "'The Avengers' Halts Production Due to Script Theft" you would have thought production had halted. If you read the Whedonesque topic, you'd discover that's not true. So, yay you gals and guys.
I'm getting the impression this thread is turning into "you should/shouldn't do this as a fan" and I've had a bellyful of that since the heydays of the Buffy fandom civil war back in '02-'03.

So I will say this, I have absolutely no problem with the industrial side of things being discussed here. Not all threads will be of interest to all posters. If an entry hasn't been deleted, then you may assume the entry has our blessing or at least it's tolerated. And if you wait long enough, a thread you are interested in will turn up. It usually does.
One thing I've always liked about Whedonesque is the variety of the types of posts here. Philosophical examinations of existing work, highlights of cool Whedon-inspired fan creations (Firefly cupcakes!), tips about Whedonesque actors' other projects and public appearances, or breathless fanboy/fangirl anticipation of future Whedon projects. On any given day, I might be into one or another, but there is almost always something interesting to peruse. When it comes to something that I'm not sure will make the cut for the front page, I usually just throw it up there and let the "Golden Few" decide whether it stays or disappears into the internet oblivion. This is one of the few sites I have consistently visited year after year, so I figure they must be doing something right.
And they do it all for only £30,000 a year too. Or nothing, not quite clear on the details.
I haven't posted on this particular thread, but I read it all anyway. I love Whedonesque for the variety of posts. In fact if I see something that I think will be taken down (which looks inappropriate for one reason or another), I quick click on it so I can enjoy it before it's gone (LOL). This is my favorite site online. Not counting when there is a new Guild episode... or well... okay, I like lots of sites.
And is it only me who thinks people misspell Whedon just to fu[nk & Wagnalls 7th Edition] with our blood pressure?

As a matter of fact, it is an international conspiracy aimed specifically at you. ;)

What? People on boards baiting representatives of a passionate fandom? Unthinkable! ;)

No, Willowy, it's not just you.

On the topic of the rumour mill: it is there, and it will be there -- even though I personally find this stuff pointless. I think it's an indicator of the interest this movie is generating.

[ edited by Effulgent on 2011-05-04 08:33 ]
Does anyone know if Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Vision, Ant-Man and Wasp will appear in this or future Avengers films? I quite enjoy those characters more than some of the main biggies. SW is actually my favourite avenger. I heard Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver can't appear because they're technically X-Men characters, which is a shame. They are all Marvel characters after all.
20th has the right to all mutants, Brierly. Not sure when or if that will ever change.
I know, IrrationaliTV.
How do we know that they have the rights to all mutants? How do people know this? And what if they rewrite SW to be a non-mutant superheroine? Do they still have the rights?

Just for the record, I think we should be talking about Avengers more often, not less. It is easily the biggest single project Joss has ever done -- and IMHO easily one of the most exciting. I will discuss anything about this project no matter how trivial. And I consider juicy, unfounded rumors like this to be well worth discussion, even if they are totally untrue -- as they are here.

PS - Can we discuss my questions above please? I find these contractual questions fascinating.
It's been written in the trades, Squishy. The rights to Marvel characters are split up amongst 20th (Fantastic 4 and X-Men, all mutants), Sony (Spider-Man), Paramount and now Disney. You should be able to easily google some links.
And they do it all for only £30,000 a year too. Or nothing, not quite clear on the details.


My sister and her husband work for a couple of well-known Internet companies and I explained once what I did here. They didn't comprehend that I did it for free and because it was fun.
I reckon under 'labour of love' in the dictionary it just has a group photo of the lot of you (course, it may be cross-referenced with 'nutters' too ;).
I really wanted Scarlet Witch in this film---she'd be great played by Sarah Michelle Gellar. Yes yes, it's fan wishful thinking, but it would still be AWESOME.
Mmm, Scarlet Witch . . . Shwing! I love SMG, but is she sultry enough for the role? I actually think Sacrlet Johansen would have been more suited to this role.

IrrationaliTV, I'm google-challenged. Plus, it's way more fun to bug you guys with my dumb questions. Thanks for the reply!

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