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September 06 2011

(SPOILER) Some new info about what to expect in Buffy Season 9. This comes from Georges Jeanty's panel at Dragon*Con.

Glad to hear Kennedy is GONE. It never made sense to me that Willow got a new girlfriend mere MONTHS after the love of her life Tara died.
Pretty bold to say someone was the love of someone's life in their early 20s. Lots of life after that. I like Kennedy.
Love his response to shippers. Way to vague it up.
Well, I gotta say: for me, this is one of only two character developments that I've felt might actually deserve the "pandering" accusation that gets tossed around so often by the "fandom".
@IrrationaliTV Agreed on the principle. And how much less sense does it make to say someone was the love of one's life (or ones... shudder... soulmate) when one is barely past puberty.
I enjoyed this bit of information, specifically what it said about B/A and B/S. I would call it a pretty decently fair and accurate.

Concerning age and love? Lots of people fall in love, get married and stay together at a young age, it isn't a fairy tale. Someone in their 20's is not anywhere close to puberty, imho.
cheryl, lots of people? I'm guessing that is a very very very small percentage in today's world. Can't imagine staying with someone that I was madly in love with at that age. It would be tragic. More power to anyone who could accomplish that but it would totally be an anomaly.
Kennedy reminds me so much of Kat from Battlestar Galactica, another character I hated.

One of the things I disliked about Kennedy, despite how obnoxious she was, was that she was portrayed as this badass, super cool slayer. Well, I already had that in Faith thank you very much and she was much better at it. I love the moment in season 7 when Faith put her in her place.

I didn't like how Kennedy kept giving everyone attitude and wanted to be the boss in season 7. I mean she's new, these characters are veterans. Show some respect. Plus, as a viewer I thought, "Who's this obnoxious, new, person acting like she's more important than these characters I've been invested in for years". That's not a smart way to introduce a new character, particularly on a show that's been on for seven seasons. Also, while I was never as into the Willow/Tara thing as other people, I think some people would agree that going from sweet, lovable Tara to obnoxious, arrogant Kennedy was a downgrade. It was hard to believe that Willow would fall for someone like that

I think the Buffy/Angel soul mate thing is true only in the sense that their lives were meant to intersect. The Angel/Darla relationship is much the same. I mean those two created a miracle in Connor and fulfilled a prophecy. Personally, I think Cordy was the best match for Angel and his true soul mate.

I feel that she is always watching him now that she's a higher being. His personal....Angel, so to speak. Boy, she must have face palmed when he agreed to be Twilight LOL. You know she still loves him though
I'm one of the few, the proud, the Kennedy lovers. I think Kennedy is a great character and I hope we see more of her in 8; it would be a great twist if she and Buffy ended up as good friends.

Soulmate, shoulmate. Relationships are damn hard work and the ones that survive do so because the couple are good friends, learn how to compromise and retain a sense of humor. I say this after spending the weekend with Mr Reddygirl furniture shopping. Trust me, nothing tests a relationship like deciding which sofa and chair to buy.
Spuffy fans please stop shipping. It's against the rules.
@Reddygirl

What you said about being good friends is one of the reasons I think Cordy and Angel worked so well. They had that foundation as good friends, and things evolved from there. It's a lot like the current Dawn and Xander relationship. The humor part really applies too. Cordy LOVED teasing Angel and making fun of him, but it was never mean spirited
*chews popcorn*
Sorry, didn't mean to ship. But I do love the Spuffy stuff!
Spuffy fans please stop shipping. It's against the rules.


Brierly, what's this in response to exactly? I see mentions of W/T, W/K, B/A, C/A, X/D, A/D, and B/S in earlier comments -- but why are Spuffy fans being called out specifically by you? (Sidebar: Kudos, everyone, on referencing so many different ships in so few comments.)

I see Reddygirl has already apologized -- I'm not sure what for exactly since her comment seemed like a general discussion of how relationships work (friendship, work hard at it) and thus too vague to even count as 'shipping Spuffy.

Which brings me to a matter of chief concern: Reddygirl -- work harder on your shipper manifesto (by like, you know, actually identifying the 'ship in question) or else I'll be forced to revoke your Spuffy shipper card. ;)

[ edited by Emmie on 2011-09-07 06:25 ]
yeah I thought that was confusing too...I didn't see anything at all objectionable, or even Spuffy related, hardly- certainly way less than other ships...

Personally, I'm not a big Kennedy fan, but I can kind of imagine what Willow saw in her...by S7 Willow was all stylish and tough and everything, but inside you have to figure she still felt like a shy nerd, and someone like Kennedy taking charge and setting her sights on her...I can see it being appealing. Plus I can imagine her seeing things in Kennedy she wanted to be (the confidence and attitude of being experienced and blase) and that's always a big turn-on. (Her relationship with Tara started out with her envying Tara's experiences with magic) But I think the idea that their relationship would have lasted even as long as it did is a bit far fetched. Tara may or may not have been Willow's OTL but her death cemented that Willow would always think of her that way. Kennedy was a total rebound girl!

I will say that although I don't LIKE Kennedy, I do think she's a good character- I mean, believable, and thus interesting. Just not likable, at least by me.
Spuffy fans please stop shipping. It's against the rules.


In this particular case, no one was actually shipping in any shape or fashion. And you came over just a tad rude, you might want to watch that.

And now back to the season 9 info.
I never got the Kennedy hate. She was the only potential who was marginally useful before getting powers and didn't whine all the time.
Can't imagine staying with someone that I was madly in love with at that age. It would be tragic.

My husband and I have been together since we were 17. Just rounded the anniversary corner and are slingshotting our way into our 20th year together. Two people sharing their lives for so long? It's just so damned tragic, you know? Shakespeare should crawl from his grave and write about it. Happy Couple: A TRAGEDY IN THREE ACTS. Write, Zombie Shakespeare. Write like the wind.

Anyway, yes, Kennedy. I've managed to independently find affection for the character, but I don't think the Season 8 comic really did much to warm the audience to her. Overall I think she got a pretty rough deal.

What will really be interesting now is to see how well Willow's new girlfriend goes over.
Congrats, Jet Wolf! You two must be very very special. I've never run into anyone (except my grandparents RIP) who did the same.
One day - just one day - I'd love to read a Whedonesque discussion about character arcs without shippers getting all antsy.

But here's something to think about. Sometime in the next month or two, the world population will finally hit seven billion. What makes you think out of a pool that large that there's only one true love for anyone?

Joss has never made romantic relationships easy for any of his characters because it makes for good story telling. If anyone can find someone in their teens and stay with them for life, then good for them. They're obviously not a Joss story. But to define someone's life by one or two years from their youth isn't a very human way of looking at things.
Not meaning to 'dis anyone's real relationships (unlike the fictional ones we discuss here) but I think the real tension is that many of us feel we are quite different from the persons we were at 17 (or 22 or even 30!). Sometimes you evolve together (as with a best friend, close sibling, 'true love') but often not, as experience often leads to a divergence. It's all good - whatever way it works. I just think the stats in general are against the one-true-love-discovered-at-17 kind of relationship (although kudos to Mr & Mrs Jet Wolf on beating the odds!)

[ edited by baxter on 2011-09-07 11:27 ]

[ edited by baxter on 2011-09-07 11:27 ]
I think Faith's role as a mentor is great.

But I don't want just about every other Slayer in the world angry at Buffy so I'm hoping we see at least one or two of he sister Slayers forgiving Buffy and being friendly with her.
Hot damn! Jet wolf posts! Damn, girl, how you been? How's the hubby? Yo, irrationaltv, those two are made for each other and have been for, like, forever. And my grandparents, btw, were married for 72 years, met when they were 5 and were married by the time they were 20. I am sorry to hear that the couplings and marriages in your life (outside of your grandparents as well) have not been the same, but it seems a silly point to argue. It is clear that Tara was Willow's great love, so to say- until a bullet took that away- we will never know if they would have survived forever, and all of us will filter that answer thought our own life stories, expectations, etc. I am no Kennedy fan (though I will say that this same Jet Wolf posting here made me reconsider that in her own fan fic- and JW, I'm still waiting...), but when people lose someone unexpectedly, they take time and they recover and then life goes on. Kennedy could never be Tara- that was part of the point of S7 TKIM.But she was Kennedy, and perhaps a necessary transition person. Now, having said all this, the teaser here is that Willow and Kennedy have broken up- for reasons we do not yet know (though perhaps snake lady SV might have something to do with this, but perhaps not). And Willow is with someone new- who we have not met, yet she appears to be African American if the comic teaser is true. If so, I will rue this (not the new lady or her being black, that is) because I would like to see how Willow's relationships develop, what drew two people together, etc. and not just do the time jump reset. Plus there will be a part of me that feels that this may all be sort of calculated. To draw viewers, start the Willow-Tara-Kennedy argument all over again (that breaking the 4th wall seems to suggest this is at least partly in play). And here we are, doing just that. You cannot really have Willow do anything transitional with Kennedy that does not draw attention back to Tara- as it has here.
Hey, I beat the odds too! Met Mr. Hann23 at 19 and we are still going strong, at 20 years later. (He put up with my Comic Con lust) Woohoo...but I don't believe in the soul mate argument, I believe in the "let's get to work" arguement. Well, let me rephrase that, I think you need the whole "OMG! I am so into this dude/gal, he/she's like the ulimate for me, LOVE'EM", and then you have to get to work.

I think Jeanty handled the question pretty well, soulmates and partnership. There are positives to both. Since Jeanty is essentially a Whedon minion, it's probably really really hard for him to directly answer that question.

As for Kennedy, I do feel kind of bad for her. I think that she was definitely set up as a transitional relationship for Willow from the get go and was purposefully written as a sort of "opposite" of Tara. I am really curious who this person is for Willow.
I was really looking forward to seeing Willow live the single life for more than a few episodes/issues. Sigh.
No Dana, it isn't clear. I really don't know who made you the arbiter of all knowledge on this subject. Everything to do with Willow is NOT about Tara except to you. It's time for us all to move on.

I can't wait to see what romance they have in store for Willow this time. Like a typical person her age, she will probably have several which will all be crazy important and OMG the one! LOL

And the relationships in my life are just fine, thanks. Lifelong monogamy (despite the myth fed to us) is simply not necessary in order to be happy and many are happier without it.
No Dana, it isn't clear. I really don't know who made you the arbiter of all knowledge on this subject. Everything to do with Willow is NOT about Tara except to you. It's time for us all to move on.

You might wanna back down a step or two in your climb onto that plinth of yours please, IrrationalTV. Dana5140 was just trying to offer the counterpoint that finding someone when your young and still growing emotionally and staying with them is quite possible and beneficial to the parties involved when hard work is put in. Not in agreement with the position and/or how it was structured? Fair and understandable. But acting in a way you're accusing Dana5140 of - in my personal opinion - isn't gonna win people over to your side of the fence.

And the relationships in my life are just fine, thanks. Lifelong monogamy (despite the myth fed to us) is simply not necessary in order to be happy and many are happier without it. .

Once again, you seem to be speaking on behalf of a group who I wasn't aware had given you speaking rights to their feelings. I know I personally grasp your position and ensuring multiple sides of a position are explored is fantastic, but...I wish you had phrased that last bit differently because I feel you're being dismissive of other opinions solely because your life has moved along a certain path that doesn't match other paths. Which is awesome because variety and uniqueness are awesome, but still...variety!

:P
I think some people could stand to calm down a little before posting.

Dander? Is that really the Dawn/Xander ship name? I guess you can't tack an X onto Dawn, can you. /deep thoughts

But here's something to think about. Sometime in the next month or two, the world population will finally hit seven billion. What makes you think out of a pool that large that there's only one true love for anyone?

This is what technology is for! Soon the dating sites will become self-aware and start actively matchmaking like aunts and grandmas, on the eve of the robopocalypse. Or, Dan Savage is right and there are multiple "ones." Which I think is true. I like Tara and Kennedy, they were both good for Willow in different ways. She's acting pretty weird lately though.
BlueEyedBrigadier, I was in no way speaking for anyone except myself. Thought I used lots of "I" and "my" statements to make that clear...

Sorry if you somehow imagined I was trying to speak for you or trying to do something with a fence. :)
RE: preview-- I prefer to think Willow just found someone at a party to make out with; is that so unlikely? I mean, no one's assuming Spike is now dating some other girl just because he was making out with someone in the same panel. Though I guess we did see him arrive alone....but still.

I guess by now some people already know! Damn, I gotta go out and get this comic already...

ETA- oh! next week. damn.

[ edited by aphasia on 2011-09-07 23:55 ]
Well, I was going to respond but am addressing the fact that I now have an evidence technician in my house dusting for fingerprints after our home was broken into, so I am letting it go. Frankly, right now, I hope aphasia is right. About Willow, that is.
I saw the preview pages for the first issue of BtVS season 9, and I am so happy to see funny, goofy party girl Buffy again. It really takes me back to season 1 and 2 BtVS in a good way! Looking forward to seeing more of Jeanty's stellar work. He's been a real asset to this series.
All quotes are from the article:

Jeanty says Joss Whedon wanted to continue the story without the drama of tv execs and actors


Jeanty's point on why S8 came to be in comic form was that gathering everyone back together for live action would be a problem, not that the actors or tv execs were themselves problematic or dramatic. In fact, Jeanty didn't mention "tv execs" or "drama" at all.

He did say that Willow gets a new girlfriend in Season 9


Actually he said that she has a new girlfriend as evidenced by the MTV/Darkhorse preview. Jeanty even gave us a RuPaul snap to accentuate the point.

When asked by a fan if he shipped any specific characters


No one asked Jeanty this question. When he was asked a question about Spike's S9 involvement ["I haven't mentioned Spike?!"], he started asking us about "Spiffies" and "Oh, I should know that one because I love the band"; he even got a Spangel in there when going through the names. To clarify, he just wanted to know the labels, and he asked us for a show of hands. The B/A, B/S discussion ended with:

Jeanty believes that Angel and Buffy are soulmates, but she and Spike have a much more workable relationship that he thinks will be able to be sustained.


which is not even a direct Jeanty quote, but Jeanty quoting Joss although it hasn't been accurately transcribed. I mean first of all, when has any relationship in the Whedonverse been sustained?

All of this just lead to Jeanty saying that Spike will be prominent in S9 in the Buffy (as opposed to the F/A) issues.

I asked Jeanty about Spike kissing someone at the party (as someone mentioned in the comments) and he didn't really answer except to say that the party is real, it's not a dream, and that the party would become significant in later issues.

In Season 9, Angel, who killed Giles while being possessed by Twilight, will seek redemption.


One of the most interesting tidbits Jeanty gave IMO is the opinion that Angel is at his most interesting when he is in the Needs Redemption state. He told us that he was tempted to draw the Faith and Angel series because he suspects that's where the meat and potatoes is going to be during S9.

Let me close by saying that I did not take notes during this panel. Some of the points made by the author of this article came across as incorrect information to me, however it may just be a matter of interpretation. At any rate, I thought it prudent to share.
..which is not even a direct Jeanty quote, but Jeanty quoting Joss although it hasn't been accurately transcribed.


When exactly did Whedon say that Buffy and Angel are soulmates?
And when did he say that Buffy and Spike have a more workable relationship that could be sustained?
Those are clearly Jeanty's words, not Whedon's. Joss has never said anything like that.
I could be misunderstanding what tjbw means but it's possible that Jeanty is quoting something Joss told him personally and not something from any interview or public quote Joss made.Something Joss told Georges privately one on one and Georges is relaying Joss's take on things based off of personal conversations he has had with Joss.

But also these comments aren't accuratly represnting what was said at the panel either from the sound of it.That this didn't do a good job of reporting what Georges said.

Like I said,I could be reading this wrong though.
I doubt that Joss ever described Buffy and Angel as soulmates, and season 8 is there to prove that he doesn't believe that. Even if Jeanty was quoting Joss, it's more than clear that he misunderstood what was exactly Joss' opinion, so basically that makes it again, Jeanty's words and point of view, not Joss'

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