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"Lilah: You're a remarkable man, Angel. Angel: Yeah, and you're an evil bitch."
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January 21 2004

Hercules has seen Angel 5.10! The thread for discussing this week's new episode of ANGEL.

This is an alarming piece of news...although I'm not sure what that means exactly.

[ edited by tacitron on 2004-01-21 22:54 ]
Lots of people are alarmed. Don't be. It's nothing to worry about. More explanation in inviso-text.

I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised by that episode...I assumed the combination of first time writer/director would spell disaster, but as a whole it worked for me. I thought Boreanaz did a nice job directing, even though parts seemed a bit clumsy and forced (the chest cavity/eye transition was a little over the top).

Also, the bear was good. Hopefully he'll be making regular appearances as the season progresses.
I thought tonight's episode was excellent and considering they can't get SMG to guest, I liked the way they got around that. Yes, it would've been nicer to have seen her, SMG, turn her head and grin at Angel and say something hurtful, but what they did was an acceptable substitute.

I loved all the parallels with Spike's mission of "helping the helpless" mirrowing completely what Angel did in his early days even down to the apartment being almost identical but more sparse.

[ edited by Simon on 2004-01-22 09:14 ]
Now that I think about it...Didn't Spike meet the original Doyle way back in season 1? I don't remember Spike interacting with him much, so he probably wouldn't be aware of the visions or Doyle's role as Angel's conduit to the PTB. Still, you'd think he might be slightly suspicious... Maybe all that beer-drinkin' he's been doing has gone to his head.

Gonna go rewatch that episode...
I really liked this episode. I particularly liked how Spike became a warped sort of Season One Angel with the help of his "Doyle," aka Lindsey. A nice little perverse symmetry, that. Maybe it's going to take a scenario this perverse for Angel to snap himself out of the gray area muck in which he has been mired since he took over L.A. W& H in "Home"/"Conviction." One can only hope.

I also loved the brief nod to Spike's stint in Xander's basement. The way longtime Whedonverse viewers are rewarded like this just gets me every time. And I love to hate Eve more and more with each episode. I want her to be punished, horribly.

Fred's chest cavity extraction went on a tad too long for me, though. Absurdism is great, but not just for absurdism's sake. I couldn't help thinking of "Restless' (BtVS 4.22), where pretty much only the cheese man was without deeper meaning. Unless someone can interpret the deeper meanings of the items that Fred extracted from Angel's chest cavity?
Spike did meet him in the first season but Doyle's name was never used in front of him - so he would not know who Doyle was - he called him a Mick instead due to his accent.

Also not just Xander's basement - remember in Season 7 he lived in the school basement as well as Buffy's basement toward the end of the season. So he occupied a couple of basements in Sunnydale when he was there. :)

[ edited by RavenU on 2004-01-22 05:52 ]
phlebotinin - "I particularly liked how Spike became a warped sort of Season One Angel with the help of his "Doyle," aka Lindsey"

It was almost like seeing what a Spike spinoff with the same concept would've been like. Spike and Lyndsey as Angel and Doyle's characters obviously and perhaps Harmony or Anya as the part of Cordelia and Andrew as the part of Wesley. I thoroughly enjoyed the Angel scenes done with a Spike twist. I don't think it would've been considered a darker show though with that cast!
Poor Spike and all his basements. I can't believe I spaced the school and Buffy's house in Season 7. Of course. Hilarious!

The more I think about it, the more weird and dark and strangely moving it was having Spike play Bizarro Angel (season one vintage). I find the character of Spike usually very amusing but somehow this wrinkle in the whole Angel fabric freaked me out. Parts of it were exremely funny -- when Spike rudely told off the young woman he had just saved, for e.g. -- but Spike's interaction with Lindsey ("Doyle") sort of saddened me, reminding me of how far Angel has deviated from his hardscrabble early days of trying to save the world with just Doyle and Cordelia by his side.
Fred wears Angel's pearl necklace? *blink* Hee, I see Brent Fletcher is testing the waters early to see how much he can get away with in his scripts.

[ edited by Kris on 2004-01-22 08:47 ]
I've removed the spoiler tag so unspoiled can discuss.
On a completely random note, I wonder why the one-shot random people, like Brent Fletcher or Diego Gutierrez,
GrrrArghh!!!! Did anyone else have Rose McGowan talking over the final credits of Angel drowning out the little paper monster???
"GrrrArghh!!!! Did anyone else have Rose McGowan talking over the final credits of Angel drowning out the little paper monster???"

OMG yes...silly witch.

[ edited by protector on 2004-01-22 18:43 ]
Yes! And it annoyed the hell out of me, too. That little Mutant Enemy dude should be sacrosanct.
I liked it! A little weird, but good. And I loved the scene in which Gunn and Wes visit Spike in his new appartment.
I'm in love with Brent Fletcher. And Rose McGowan is evil!
Rose McGowan is Fucking HOT! However she shouldn't talk during GRR ARRGH time. JUst hearing that makes every episode a cool episode.
Wes and Gunn don't really need Angel do they? Anyone would think they were two princes trying to take over the throne.

One of those episodes that just left me wanting to know more. Great stuff.
wow this was a great ep...! i have never really been able to warm up to this show but now for the first time i'm dying to see what happens next.

boy, i don't know how to describe just how much i hate eve. gah! i wanna beat her up.
I agree that no one should be talking over the Mutant Enemy "Grrr Argh" guy but it's not really Rose McGowan's fault that they, the WB did that. So I forgive her! Now let's hunt down the WB execs who made that decision!!
I agree. Let's kill all the suits and make Joss the new president of The WB.
Well, that episode of Angel was definitely the best part of my Wednesday. And, understand, I did the whole Eating Breakfast for Dinner Thing yesterday, so that's really saying something.

Also, rather than finding it lengthy, I actually enjoyed the Dr. Fred dream sequence most of all. The necklace...the bear...the "Mmm, raisins!" If only this Brent Fletcher could write for ER, I would actually have something to watch tonight.

And thus ends my first post...hope I did this right.
Very well said Mr. VampiresSuck. Nice nickname as well. I'm gonna roll a red carpet out of my hollow chest cavity and officially welcome you to the boards.
New favorite line ever (quoting approximately):

"It's pronounced Matchabelli." The "And it doesn't come in a can" is just icing on the cake.

Not sure why, that just tickled my funnybone.
melsta, because it was funny!

And it means that Harm is back to normal!
Is "Matchabelli" some sort of perfume or something? (I know who Machiavelli was, but I'm assuming that Harmony is referring to something that you can buy). Whatever "Matchabelli" is, it was good to hear Harmony being her usual silly self after her personal crises of last week.
Perfume, yes, I remember my mother having it when I was a kid, and I thought the name was hysterical:

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