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December 19 2011

New trailer for 'The Avengers'. There's some lovely new footage to be found in this German trailer.

Come on Marvel, post the english version!
Jesus. The german voices threw me off so hard. They don't do subtitles there? The new footage in the trailer is cool though. Loved the shot of Cap throwing his shield.
I love Bruce Banner saying: "We're not a team, we're a ticking bomb."
Definitely feels more Avengers and less Iron Man 3.
Few comments:
1) Widow gets to speak (to Banner). There were a few comments out in Internet-land wondering if Scarlet was going to be allowed to act or not. (I have faith in Joss, but it is always nice to have hard proof.)
2) I wonder if they dubbed Chris' laugh too, or kept the original? (Sounds like the original?)
3) dannyrobertson and eddy: Are you asking for english subtitles for the German trailer? That would really blow people's minds. ("I'm not going to watch the Avengers; it's an artsy foreign film!")
OneTeV - I want a non-dubbed version of that trailer for 2 reasons.
1) I want to know what the characters are saying
2) I want to hear the cast deliver those lines.
OneTeV, what I meant was that I'd prefer to hear the actors speak with german sub titles on the screen.
Somebody posted the German trailer with English annotations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjNDNO7pMXE
Can we all focus on how awesome Mark Ruffalo's smile is?
I never understood why some countries (France/Wallonia, Germany, Italy, Spain, ...) dub movies instead of subtitle them. It surely doesn't do the quality of the movie or the general experience any favors. It also just does a huge disservice to the performance of the original actors. Such a shame.
Mitholas, I've always wondered the same. If anything, it would help people immensely with learning English (which to me seems like a valuable asset, especially on the internet). I'm just happy to be living in the Flemish part of Belgium. We get subtitles for almost everything (children's movies are usually dubbed).

As for the trailer, I think I'll wait for an English version. The German would distract me too much.
Oh ha, that's German Iron Man doing the voiceover in the middle. I didn't realize until Und mich. [cue rock anthem]
2) I wonder if they dubbed Chris' laugh too, or kept the original? (Sounds like the original?)


That's definitely a dubbed laugh. Hemsworth has more bass to his laugh.
Definitevely dubbed.
As an anime fan, I have equal appreciation for dubbing and subbing. I agree with Mitholas' argument about dubbing interfering with the performances of the original actors; on the other hand, a good dub can sometimes add new dimensions to a film or TV show that no one would have imagined. I guess if you're going to take either approach, do it well. Life's too short for bad dubbing or subbing.
Why would you set this not to be played on mobile phones? It kinda defeats the purpose of being a promo for the film.
The same YouTube video embedded on the German Marvel site works on my phone.
A guy could really get used to Joss Whedon with a budget...
Re Subtitles vs Dubbing:
I saw "The Great Race" with Greek subtitles in an Athens Theater in 1977. The Americans and British in the audience laughed at all the jokes, but the Greeks did not. I suspect the subtitles didn't translate the humor very well. The Greeks did love the slapstick, though.

My point, I suppose, is that it's a shame to lose the actor's voices by dubbing, but losing the gist of the dialogue can be a greater loss. JMHO.
On the other hand, I feel great pain for those who only saw the french dubbing of Once More With Feeling. It sucked in every way. Obviously it would have required a lot of work to do it right, but still, it hurt.
The same YouTube video embedded on the German Marvel site works on my phone.


My wife and I could not get it work on our iPhones, very odd. As for dubbing and subbing, the dubbing for Night Watch was fantastic (less so for the sequel). But I would have not have enjoyed The Killing and The Killing II as much if I wasn't able to listen to the dialogue in Danish.
Why do the voices all sound as if they were recorded in a sound booth? I mean, granted they probably were, but why haven't the voices been given the acoustics of the environment seen in the shots? (Or does even English ADR have this canned sound, but we ignore it because we're so busy comprehending the words that we don't notice?)
I know that many other countries dub foreign language movies and TV shows, but experiencing dubbed-into-English is strange for me -- hearing American actors dubbed into German, when I'm very familiar with how, say, RDJ sounds, is super-strange.

I'm very, very glad for subtitles. The only dubbed movies I've ever liked were the Miyazaki movies that Disney had dubbed; the English dub for Spirited Away is better than the Japanese language version, in my opinion.

The German trailer with additional footage is, again in my opinion, slightly superior to the U.S. release. Black Widow gets to talk! Thor still does not.
I prefer subbed over dubbed any day. I think the emotions and intent of the original actors comes through despite my non-word comprehension. It's nice to have the sound of the acting match the visuals of the acting.

I especially prefer subbed over dubbed in Japanese anime because they ALWAYS take out stuff like the honorifics and even though I know no real Japanese, I have picked up on the importance of some language usage and slang and the dubbed versions ALWAYS ignore that stuff and hence lose the flavor of the original. I agree that Miyazaki's films tend to be well dubbed, but it is weird hearing Batman's voice issuing from Howl. The only anime that I've really thought was well dubbed is Cowboy Bebop. And that was just until I managed to hear the Japanese version. Steve Blum is very good but the original just has a certain something extra. In general, I think the English versions of anime tend to have actors, who for some reason, display more simplistic emotions.

As far as English ADR goes, I think the quality must vary. Sometimes it is quite glaringly obvious to me that they had to (re)record some dialog and add it in afterwards, even on big budget movies. (It's got a bit of that hollow sound.)
dottikin, did you watch the whole trailer? Thor has a line near the end of the trailer.
You must understand, people, that nowadays most trailers are dubbed in a very unprofessional way; its a rush job. Sometimes they are not even the same actors who are going to dubb the movie at all. To judge the quality of dubbing from atrailer is madness; there is not even a dubbing director nor a dubbing team assembled yet.

Dub actors are ACTORS (many of them are trained and experienced theater and film actors) and they work on the movie with great dedication and study; it takes time, read troughs, essays, direction... This poor people didnt even have a movie (its not even finished) as a basis for their acting decisions.

I am against dubbing, and i go a looooong way and pains to find the few original version theaters in the great cities of Spain, but i can understand some of its values and i recognise that a good dubbing, while in no way the ideal way of watching a movie, can be a great work of art in itself.

In fact, subbed is no ideal way of watching a movie either; you are forced to watch constantly the lower segment of an image to read subtitles and no matter how quick your eye is, its quite disturbing; the subtitles are usually also very unnatural and too stilistic, in some ways loosing even great portions of information in the way.

I vastly prefer subbing than dubbing, but im not going to cheat myself; its just the lesser evil.

There are countries out there thar subb everything, and that is comendable and i wish spain was one of them; but to many brits and americans, think about this, just to try to see it our way; to you, 9 of ten movies are in YOUR language; in ours, 9 of ten are foreign, usually american.

I still hate dubbing, but i can see why some dont.
Foreign films: subbed no matter what (not that there are many (any?) dubbed non-english films these days). I don't know how people can watch a dubbed film, but I guess if it was the only way you'd get used to it.

Anime: all about the quality, but usually I try to go for a dubbed version. A lot of sub translations are just awful and not really worth the effort. Of course there are bad dubs out there, but I think they are starting to get better as anime becomes more and more popular in the west.
Do you people watch Sergio Leone westerns? Its a decent starting point for those who are interested in understanding the experience, cause no matter in what language you watch them, they are dubbed. If you watch them in english, you hear Clint, but you dont hear the italian and german and spaniard actors. If you watch it in italian, youy hear most of the italians, but not clint and co.

Gives you a slight idea of what the experience might be; not a good one, cause usually, in my opinion, most international dubbing is of higher quality than that of Sergios movies in english, but it is a way of getting sort of an idea of how it is to see 90 per dent of movies in cinema dubbed.

When the job is good, with good lip synchro and a good actor, its allmost imposible, unless you really are trying to read lips, not to associate a voice to a character; if you have never heard Clints voice, its actually imposible for many not to hear Constantino Romeros voice instead; when well done its absolutely convincing that those are actually the actors voices.

[ edited by Darkness on 2011-12-20 16:59 ]
One of my biggest issues with Dubs, particularly in anime, is when they put the majority of effort into making what is said match the pattern of the lips in sacrifice of a better translation. When you try watching the dub with the subtitles on you can generally see the effect it has...
There are times when I want to casually watch while doing something else (like making dinner), in which case I'd prefer dubbing over subtitles.

I remember watching "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" with English subtitles AND dubbing (DVD options). There are times when the wording is *very* different, but that's probably due to the constraints (like Darkness mentioned). For dubbing, the sounds have to work for lip synch, and for dubbing you have to be able to read (and understand) it before the next line of dialogue.

eddy and danny (above) - That was a joke. ;-)

JMaloney and Darkness - I flip-flopped on the dubbing. Sometimes the YouTube video has enough compression to sound "thin", in which case a loss of (laughing) bass might have been for non-dubbing reasons. (I probably should have used headphones instead of my computer speakers.)

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