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"Ah, curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"
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December 28 2011

(SPOILER) Discuss Angel & Faith #5. This issue features a couple of familar faces visiting London. MTV Geek liked the story, "if you're looking to jump right into a new, great series, this is the perfect issue to get on board".

Haven't got my copy yet but i did read Zianna summery over at Slayalive and think the issue sounds fun.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2011-12-28 17:37 ]
The link of my summary is here

It was a very funny issue. I couldn't write many of the jokes in my summary, others just don't work unless you also see the sketches, while others happen while Angel and Faith talk and at the same time Harmony does something else in the background.

It is true that there is a kind of whitewashing for Angel, only that they didn't think about it very well so basically it backfires. While they have tried to make Angel's purposes in season 8 better than they really were they did quite the opposite, since now they represent us an Angel trying to play God deciding who gets to win heaven and who doesn't.

As for Harmony and how she manages her inner-demon, well she used to do a good job about in in S5 AtS as well. Here she does exactly the same thing. She only feeds on human when they allow her but doesn't kill them. And the world now has changed. Everyone knows about the vampires, so she created the "Reform Vampirism" to make it clear to the other vampires that right now this is the only way. Kill the humans, and it will backfire. Live with them and everybody gets to be happy. So the vampires follow her rules, trying to fit into the new circumstances.

As for "zompires" and how Angel knew how Xander named the new kind of vampires, my guess is Willow. Since Willow knew that someone was after Buffy, it makes sense that she's still in contact with remaining slayers or with ex-witches that used to work for Buffy's organization. So when she learns about the zompires and she hears Xander naming them, she informs someone to spread the word to the slayers or to the ex-witches. So the slayers in UK learn about it (Nadira and the girls) and inform Faith who informs Angel as well.

Or even Andrew with the slayer's organization that he created, once he called to ask what Buffy wanted when she was calling him.

It's what they said, that they must keep the order and publish the issues on time, or else things will be messed up. It would make no sense to reveal zompires out of the blue in A&F, but now it does.
Here's my summary/review. I liked it a lot, aside from the mishandling of the Twilight fiasco. Pretty awesome use of that Lao Tzu quote, too.
I have my copy of Angel & Faith # 5 .

Fun issue.I like the nod to Harmony ditching Angel in NFA(leaving out the betrayal thing).I still think that was stupid but i like the little joke here.

I did like the overall humor of this issue actually and think it serves as a nice breather between arcs.Sort of like how the shows would do a comedy episode before or after a heavy episode.

Clem being the one behind the blackmail and why I thought worked and found Harmony's reaction funny but also interesting was Angel's reaction.

Letting Go seems to be the theme of the issue.Harmony trying to teach Angel and Faith to let it go his guilt.She even has her PR. person create spin for the Twilight deal(those are funny scenes actually) which Angel throws in the garbage at the end of the issue.

This issue has a lot of fun jokes.Clem shipping Angel/Faith and comparing them to Olivia & Elliot on S.V.U.,the vamp wanting Harmony's autograph after insulting her,the Harmony strip tease and Faith commenting that "those are SO fake."(This is when I think Angel was getting clued in on Clem.The way Angel is watching Clem while Harmony strips).

As for Angel's reveal that he was planning to save good people and bring them to the Twilight universe with him and Buffy.I think answers the what about Connor question in regards to Twilight.

I don't think it white washes Angel.It still was a really bad and wrong decision but I think it adds more understanding and motives to what we already knew about what Angel's ultimate plan was with Twilight.To create a new universe with Buffy and bring over the good while leaving the bad in the old universe. The Twilight kitty and Whistler really had to work on Angel to get him to agree with going forward with the plan.I wonder if that was ultimately how he rationalized going through with it.That once Twilight was created by him and Buffy, he would be able to move the good people and things over to the universe while leaving the bad behind?I also wonder,and I really need to go back to Buffy S8 # 35 to double check,But I also wonder if he was caught off guard by the old universe actually ending and was just expecting it to continue with the bad staying there while the good would be moved to Twilight(could he have just expected Buffy's friends would eventually make it over to the Twilight dimensions along with Connor and others?)Again,I really need to look back at Buffy # 35 because I realize certain things might not add up and I'm aware of the controversy this issue is creating as far as matching Brad Meltzer's Buffy # 35.

Again,I don't think Ange & Faith # 5 or 1-4 for that matter is white washing Angel.It still was the wrong move even if his intentions were good and Angel takes responsibility for his actions in the previous Angel & Faith issues.

The problem right now is that it looks like he's making another wrong move with good intentions by trying to bring Giles back.We'll have to see if .

I'm speculating of course but I wonder if the theme of this issue about letting go is a bigger theme for the season on the Angel & Faith side of season 9?That ultimately Angel mission to bring back Giles is foolhardy and he needs to let go of that and the guilt of his killing Giles.That you can't change the past.You can just move forward and try to learn from your mistakes.In this case,learn from his character flaws that led him to fall prey to Twilight which trying to bring Giles back is just a symptom of.
I love a fun Harmony story and the Clem reveal (or at least it was a reveal for me) was great. Really enjoying Faith's role in this series.
Loved the issue! The art was okay, but it doesn't compare to Rebekah's. I liked how Harmony was written, as well as Clem. I've always loved Clem, so it was nice to get some insight on him and all. My only wonder was: it said his kind feeds off of emotions, although I quite sure he's been seen eating human foods. And didn't he eat the kittens as well? Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

And the whole 'Angel was going to bring good people to Twilight' thing is totally new, and I think was only added to lessen the bad things he'd done. That hadn't been mentioned whatsoever before now. It sounds too much like 'Jesus comes down to earth one day in the future and saves the good' for my taste. Not to mention I still think that action was OOC for Angel, went against everything he stood for. He's all about redemption and helping people. Yeah, some people truly are just plain bad, but some are just people who have made mistakes, like Faith, and could be saved. I just don't know how I feel about this new fact. I would be totally fine with it, if it'd been stated back in the day, when the Twilight fiasco was in motion, but now it just seems like a lazily added bit to make people warm up to Angel once again.
I never had to "warm up to Angel again." Already there. Not even an issue.
Hey all.
Just a heads-up that I just got the greenlight from Scott Allie for another Q&A for this issue. So if you'd like to participate, please check out the details HERE. Only taking 30 questions, so get yours in quick!
No mention of David Tennant making a cameo? I literally laughed out loud at that panel. Surprisingly, I didn't make the connection until the Tardis comment though.
Angel killed Giles...my only father figure growing up...there will be no "warming up" on my end.

[ edited by YouDriveLikeASpaz on 2011-12-29 09:19 ]
Life is unfair :(

The most important slayer in the world has to dream about meeting Daniel Craig, while the most important vampire in the world is Tardis buddy with David Tennant.
I am fairly surprised nobody is complaining about them whitewashing Harmony and her civilized vampires faction of the vamp family. ;) after all the fuss about Harmony going celeb, I guess the audience is just tired to complain about it. Myself, I wonder if we are indeed are supposed to sympathize with her? Also, I am surprised Clem have switched from eating felines to gorging on emotions - I have to say his new diet suits him better, considering his past history as well.
Well, since we have retconned Angel+Twilight into the Rapture, I guess Harmony is acceptable as a vamp-Paris Hilton and Clem can be a vegan.
I was enjoying the lighter more humorous 'Angel and Faith' issue until they started retconning Clem's character. I really couldn't get into that at all. Making Clem an emotional vampire seemed really off to me, also we'd seen Clems 'scary face' and it hadn't involved fanged snakes. It just seemed like they grabbed a random past character and rewrote the character to fit this issue... which seems really lame to me (more what I used to expect from IDW than Darkhorse).
I enjoyed this issue a lot more than I expected. I'm not a huge Harmony fan-but she is ok in small doses like this.

Lots of great jokes, and a timely message for both Angel and Faith. I wonder will this issue have the big theme of the season (Letting go)? A lot of the comedy episodes of Angel (Guise will be Guise, Spin the Bottle etc) did contain a more serious message which on reflection at the end of the season showed where the writers were going.


As for Angel knowing the term "zombires", I think that's akin to EVERYONE calling the Beast "the Beast" in Season 4. There were no mentions of him in any book at the time, yet everyone called him that even if they hadn't interacted lol
My extremely late review of this issue is now up on my BLOG.

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