This site will work and look better in a browser that supports web standards, but it is accessible to any browser or Internet device.

Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"We're not yelling at you, Molly."
11973 members | you are not logged in | 30 October 2020


January 02 2012

(SPOILER) Huge Buffy Season Nine Spoiler! BuffyFest have exclusively released the alternate cover for issue 8. Be warned, huge spoilers -- so don't click unless you want to know.

I don't know what to think based on Scott's comment...
This has to be the cruelest April Fool's joke.
Ha! Life-changing indeed. People are gonna be up in arms about this one.
Hmm. My first thought is this is going to cause alot of "Buffy the Amputee Slayer" jokes and headlines. My second thought is this is probably a ploy to drum up interest and sales in the series again. Don't have much further thoughts on it without knowing how it'll be played out in the comic but if Buffy's face on the cover is any indication I'm really really really hoping its not played for laughs. Kind of like the aftermath of Xander's eye gouging was handled.

Party in my eye socket and everyone's invited.
Please oh please let her replace it with a chainsaw.
Willows gonna be all "I told ya so" because if there was magick she'd be able to do something about it
Other than dying or the death of several of her friends this would be one of the most dangerous and realistic things that could happen to Buffy in her line of work. In the right hands it could spur an amazing arc to rival Passion.
I prefer this twist than to see her pregnant. It was already said once... useless to tell it again.
Hmmm. This whole thing smacks of trickery; wouldn't her slayer-sense be tingling if someone was about to chop her arm off?

And if they really were going for the shock and awe as Scott Alley suggests in the comment, I would have preferred to see a "screaming in agony" face instead of a doe-eyed surprised "wow, my arm just got chopped off" look she's making. Still a great cover but I feel they wasted an opportunity to go in a very dark direction to create some real shock and awe.
It's probably that Buffybot III that Andrew is working on or one of her doubles.
That actually freaks me out quite a bit!

I believe it is a realistic portrayal. Clean cuts aren't felt as pain at first.

Joss has a bit of a thing for arms/hands being chopped off. Wesley in Cordy's alternate universe, Spike, now Buffy. Were there others?

Simon I don't think it's a bot because of Allie's comments, and because of the blood and the look of it.

[ edited by Xane on 2012-01-02 18:16 ]
Lindsey McDonald. Which was the first thing I thought of when I saw the cover.
Do'h, how did I forget Lindsey!?
There's also Meltzer from the Angel episode 'I Fall to Pieces'. If it really is her, then maybe we'll see Spike giving one of his hands to save Buffy? Though as someone pointed out on Twitter, there's always that handy Mohra potion that made an appearance on Angel & Faith.
Hey, whatever it is that Andrew's been working on, maybe he's being set up to have the ability to make a bionic arm for Buffy. That would be neat! Robo-Slayer!

In any case, if this is the big reveal of the major change in Buffy's life, I'm happy about it. No pregnancy, no more main character deaths, and lots of potential for continuing to pursue either normality or slaying with new complications.
Having read #5 (which was my favorite of the season so far), I think the chain of events over the next 4 issues (at least) are going to be very strange indeed. Also, for the record, we have no idea if this amputation business is going to be permanent or not. Crazy!

Agree Kairos. Bionic Buffy would actually be really cool!
Holy Hell,if this is is for real as in not a short term thing but permanent.

To be fair,I do get that this could be a fake out where she only loses her arm short term or just the issue and its somehow reattached.I mean Spike lost his hands midway through "Damage" and had them reattached and working fine by the next episode.Or they could go with a robotic arm as suggested.But still,just on a initial gut first reaction.I say again Holy Hell especially if it is permanent.

I'm not clear.Does she lose her arm in this issue or does it happen somewhere between issue 5-7?
Not sure, but I believe it will be in this issue, #8.

And agree, Buffyfantic, it could totally be very short term and quick-fixed....but even if so and this is a huge PR move on their part, it's way more interesting than experimental girl sex, imo.
In any case, it happens in the April issue, and we already have a May cover for Free Comic Day issue where Buffy is okay again.

"saving all the juiciest stuff for the insides, and we think that it'll still have some surprise impact when it happens."

The only idea that comes to mind is that "the juiciest stuff" is Andrew building his little private Tardis pre-season 9. That's how he knew in advance what happens to Buffy, so he built an artificial hand for her in issue 3.

[ edited by Moscow Watcher on 2012-01-02 19:02 ]
I've got to say, I saw this and burst out laughing. Seriously, one armed Buffy?! I just can't imagine this being a serious storyline.

I mean if they just use magic to re-attach it that's such a fake out and screams of trying to grab headlines.

If it's permanent well, where's the point in continuing the Buffy series? She's either going to adjust and carry on left arm only or she's going to give up slaying, which surely will mean Buffy becomes a regular person (albeit with one arm) or turns into Professor X or some big bad. I mean I could see how that would be cool but it's not really why I'm into Buffy.
Buffyfest,I wonder if Buffy losing her arm is forshadowed in issue 5 but is the cliffhanger end to issue 7.
@Simon, the Mohra blood has significant drawbacks! (A&F #4)
True but it would set up a crossover quite nicely.
Skywalker Buffy or Bionic Buffy, that's the question. :) Other than that- meh and been there done it. If the series continue a while longer, we will see : one-legged Willow, one-eared Dawn, Spike missing one canine and amputee Angel in wheelchair. I suspect that sales won't be affected much - but it shows desperation if the writing crew have to resort to limb-ripping off characters for dramatic effect. I guess killing of Giles was not considered painful enough - if amputation was needed to amp the ante. Still cannot see why Nikki Wood is in any way related to losing a limb though.

Btw, Hellboy lost an eye this year. Since we already have a lost eye among the Scoobs, and since a one eyed chick is less sexy that one armed chick, I guess they went for the limb.

[ edited by dorotea on 2012-01-02 19:29 ]
Things are planned out a little too far in advance for it to be a "sales don't look good, let's do something dramatic" thing, I'd think.
Btw, as the one armed chicks go - we already have Dollhouse's Bennet. Since she was still considered sexy I guess the experiment was expanded to Buffy. Way to go Mr. Whedon.
Don't read the comics, don't like where things are going, but will say this:

Back in 2005 at the Motor City Buffy convention, Amber Benson was talking about finding out that Tara was going to be killed. She said she went to Joss and asked, "Can't she just, like, lose an arm or something? Ya know - be a one-armed lesbian witch." Tony Head nearly fell off his chair laughing.
Buffyfantic, I don't think that's a spoiler to say I don't see any foreshadowing of this event in issue #5. I'll have to read it again to make sure, but I'm fairly certain.

Issue #5 has it's own craziness, though and that's all I'll say for fear of getting everyone at Buffyfest in trouble!
Interestingly, in 2004, Joss said (maybe jokingly?) about the outcome of Not Fade Away that "Angel lost an arm, Spike shanshued" etc.

Maybe he couldn't realise his plans regarding Angel, so he decided to experiment on Buffy?
Whatever. We all know Buffy will get a mechanical arm or bionic arm or will regrow the limb, so the drama is artificial and will only last as long as it will require Spike and Angel to tell her that they do not care about the missing limb.
Spike: "Don't worry, Buffy - I lost both arms on the TV show, and then I lost a leg on IDW comics - and, as you see, I'm okay!" :)
So the pregnancy has gone out the window even though we were all convinced it was going to happen and battle lines had already been drawn?
Buffyfest,Yeah,I don't know how this development relates to some stuff hinted in early reviews of next weeks,issue 5,the stuff we know about issues 6-7from the solicitations or the consequences teased from Buffy's drunken romp in bed in issue 1.So I'm not ruling out the possibility that the arm ripping is a cover for something else that happens before issue 8.That more then one big thing is coming up but this is the one Scott decided to reveal now with something else happening earlier in issues 5-7.
Angel peeps in: I lost ALL of my arms AND feet on IDW comic and I am hale and kicking now. Buffy, we will get you a new arm in no time. Heck we'll get your a third one if you want- like that demon dude on my side of the ocean!
Totally agree, Buffyfantic.
@Simon: On BF there's a poster who claims to have inside knowledge about the comics who has been telling us all that there's no way Buffy is pregnant. That's why there's less talk of it at least in some sectors of the fandom.
Faith chimes in: "And, by the way, B, do you want to get breasts like mine?"
Harmony: "And you should totally fix that nose of yours!"
There are a lot of posters who claim to have inside knowledge on a lots of things about Buffy comics. LOL. I think that if DH team reads this board they should pay attention to that particular poster's claims though - they went to a lot of trouble to cover things up after that Meltzer's interview that came out right after S8 #35 and stated that Buffy wearing Nikki Woods's clothes was what defined a moment to him.
I think the simplest and most likely explanation is that she really will be amputated horribly but will have a surgical replantation, with loss of function, recovery time, etc all handwaved under the "she's the Slayer" rule that has in the past allowed her to recover from being stabbed deeply in the abdomen with a stake without going to a doctor.

Context will probably involve Spike carrying her to the hospital and/or bug ship for repairs, which is why this was teased by Allie first in an answer to someone's comment about the Spike/Buffy moment in 9.04 being heartbreaking.

I'm all for amputee heroes -- got two of 'em in "The Dark Tower" after all -- but this would so brutally curtail Buffy's effectiveness in a fight that there's no way it's an indefinite situation.

I'm gonna go 70% chance it's legit and she's fixed through surgery/Slayer healing.

20% chance it's a rather lame misdirect and it's a bot.

10% chance she gets a cybernetic arm.
It can't be a bot - bots don't bleed.
Did the cyborgs in Lineage bleed? Wouldn't it be just like Andrew to turn dead Buffy decoy into Cyborg Buffy? *stretching credulity*.
They had viscera, that much I remember.
What ever happened to those cyborg guys?
O.M.G. ...
Buffy losing her right arm in battle is realistic.
And in a world without magic there should no favorable options be at hand to mend it.
I believe the magic one's looking for is the magic of medical science.
Plus slayer healing.

(Still the robotic arm Andrew was making in #3 couldn't be just a coinsidence).
As Evil Buffy, am I allowed to pull fewer punches with you?

It's hard to fight vampires when you're unarmed.
I'm not really OK with this.
"You unhand her this instant!"
I don't know why this is marked as a spoiler, it seems perfectly 'armless to me.

Sorry, that was terrible, but I did laugh when I looked at the picture. If this really is a serious development, then that's so not the way to reveal it. We should have found out as we read the story.

The drawing is too goofy-looking - without that quote from Scott Allie, I'd definitely assume that it wasn't real. With the quote, I don't know, but why the hell would you give something like that away, months before that comic even comes out? Is marketing really more important than the narrative?
Would you expect her to cry, like, within the second of something happening? Her expression is not much different than when she got sliced during that The First thing.
Hey I wonder if Lindsay's magic hand still functions in this post-magic world oh wait he's dead isn't he.
That would be even more silly if she was crying. I think the main reason it looks goofy to me is the cartoon-like way that the arm in question is positioned. Instead of having been pushed down by the force of the axe, it's floated off upwards into mid-air.
Wow, blown away. What shocked me more then the image was the fact, as many of you point out, that it was released MONTHs in advance. Does this early spoil have something to do with the enticing shop owners to order more comics?

I really do wish that they kept this one inside the wrapper. It would have had far more power. I do prefer this story then others that have been theorized on boards. I mean she is the slayer -- losing a body part was bound to happen at some point. And because of her destiny, I really can't feel like this is a nose dive moment for her story. It does fit her lifestyle.

I am gonna hold out hopes for a Bionic Buffy rather then surgically reattached arm Buffy. I was a huge Bionic Woman fan when I was kid (original PLEASE!) and I want to pretend to hear the bionicy sound effects when I see Buffy slay something in the comics.
Oh shiiiiiiiiiiit. But I'm with a lot of other people in the assumption that she'll be getting a robo-hand from Andrew. But I feel this will go the way of Skywalker, in that it's shocking but you kind of forget about later because it works and looks so well.
The idea that she has a Batman-esque "broken body" that she has to fix (in this case reattach) and heal works perfectly with the Season 9 of closer to the TV show in terms of emotions. My greatest fear reads as, "ow I lost my arm... oh thanks Andrew!"

The idea of her having to be pulled out of something because she made a mistake and goes through the very human experience of actually healing (hospital, physical therapy, breaking scar tissue, etc.) is actually quite intriguing. It's also a place they really haven't gone yet. It touches back on Fool for Love and raises the stakes by actually making the mistake count.

No to bionic Buffy. That's just a mistake leading to more awesome. To each their own, but I HATE that device with a passion.

[ edited by azzers on 2012-01-03 03:00 ]
Neat! Now Buffy can get automail!
Our dynamic scooby gang...
Xander assigned to see with the added burden of having but one eye. He doesn't mind the challenge at all.

Willow assigned to be the most powerful whiner in the verse until that time that her powers are restored, rendering her the most powerful witch in the verse again.

Giles will remain trapped inside Angel's body, sharing residence with evil demon Angelus until such a time that a more tortorous storyline presents itself.

Buffy... "Into every generation, there is a chosen one. One girl in all the world destined to suffer. She alone, having everything dear to her stipped away, limbs not withstanding, will wield the strength and skill to stand against the vampires, the demons, and the forces of darkness; To literally, single handedly, stop the spread of their evil and the swell of their numbers. Why single handedly? For you see, she only has one hand. She is the special needs Slayer, watch her soar."
Wow. Actually, Cheryl, that puts another perspective on this:

Xander, the one who sees everything, has lost an eye.
Willow, the mage, has lost her magic.
Giles, the guide, has lost his life and thus his voice.
Buffy, the warrior, is losing her sword hand.

Only now do I start to wonder how she/they are ever going to recover.
How is it that I'm the first person that is going to mention Amilyn here? "Oh yeah? CLAP!" (insert Buffy kicking the wall and groaning).
I am not really sure why anybody is still taking this seriously enough to debate it. Myself, I cannot stop giggling hysterically ever since seeing that cover. 'Unhand me at once' about covers it. If DH crew is silly enough to push this as a seriously dramatic plot line - I feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for myself for ever getting upset over S8. But it sure make a perfect cover up 'spoiler'. Kind of like killing Dawn in #38.

Bandage Babe

In short, wearing gauze, casts, eyepatches and similar items for Fetish Fuel purposes, or seeing it as such.
... The basic psychology isn't difficult: the appearance of injury implies the need to be protected, which inspires a desire to approach and comfort the injured person...

A more extreme version of this fetish is abasiophilia, a sexual obsession with disability or the appearance of disability. Amputations, prosthetics, parapalegia, and the like fall under this category.

[ edited by dorotea on 2012-01-03 06:29 ]
If DH crew is silly enough to push this

I believe you mean "Joss" here.
@The One True b!X

But in issue #7 she is about to 'settle down with Spike', Aww... What about that huge diamond ring on her digit? And in # 6 'Buffy has become distracted by a rather personal problem that will lead her to Robin Wood.' I guess that was just a bout of ulcer or another unpaid bill. And the amputation comes right on top of all that - riiight. Must be that Rabbit of Caerbannog.

[ edited by dorotea on 2012-01-03 06:55 ]
Exactly. I love how it's always Dark Horse when people don't like it. Like anybody outranks Joss on these books.

And, really, does anybody think that the almost certainly temporary maiming of Buffy is fanservice for the Nth of an Nth of a percentage of the general population, let alone the "Buffy" fanbase, would actually have that bandage fetish? What, was Anya's bunny suit in "Fear, Itself" fanservice for the furries?

As far as I can tell, the only difference between a temporary arm-lopping for Buffy and her many stab wounds, gunshots, and vampire bites is that this is something a lot easier on a penciller than it would have been on ME's make-up and prop team.

EDIT: What does your laundry list of grievances about the previews/solicitation/speculation for 9.06, 9.07, and 9.08 have to do with Bix's point that Joss Whedon owns all creative direction for Season 9?

[ edited by KingofCretins on 2012-01-03 06:56 ]
"Did the cyborgs in Lineage bleed? Wouldn't it be just like Andrew to turn dead Buffy decoy into Cyborg Buffy? *stretching credulity*."
Simon that idea reeeeally creeps me out.

[ edited by Xane on 2012-01-03 06:58 ]
I don't don't like it. I love it. Especially after the settling down bit - it fits right in. LOL Reminds me of that scene from Monty Python were they lop off limbs of that black knight dude, and he keeps yelling his battle cries. Would she still be fighting while hopping on one leg , whadda you think?

[ edited by dorotea on 2012-01-03 06:58 ]

[ edited by dorotea on 2012-01-03 06:59 ]
Always hysterical how people jump to conclusions based on covers. You realize you are almost always wrong. Right? Hilarious.
Just a little thing I noticed-- Buffy loses her right arm, kinda like the saying. Maybe she loses an aly? I'm grasping at straws here.
After being horrified for Buffy I was thinking about the outcomes. We have three possible correct? Buffy loses an arm, get's it reattached; or Buffy loses an arm, get's a bionic one; or Buffy loses an arm, only has one arm from now on.

Personally I am kind of interested in the idea of Buffy getting her arm reattached but with severe consequences...such as that arm no longer having Slayer strength. (But I'll settle for a bot arm.)

The problem I have with the reattachment is the flow of the story. If it's really Buffy (and not a bot, or a replacement, or an April fools joke done by DH) I can see Spike or Robert getting upset and rushing to her, grabbing her, and storming away from the battle to seek medical attention. In the horrid after moments of Buffy losing her arm in the midst of zombires, who is going to retrieve her the missing limb? Especially if the zombires mutilate it or eat it.

Honestly, I feel so much for Buffy right now, my heart hurts and my stomach turns. After season 8 I thought we'd have less 'torture the cheerleader' and more Buffy dealing with life (I suppose this is dealing with life,'s a bit off for me).

We'll see how it turns out and in the mean time, I'm making sure to pre-order all my issues.
Anyone read Donna Haraway's Cyborg Manifesto?

She would argue that we are already metaphorically cyborgs. Perhaps an interesting literal manifestation of feminist theory?
As a huge Buffy fan the idea of her losing a limb is really quite upsetting for me. I know it sounds silly but I havenít been able to stop thinking about it all day. As I said elsewhere, Iím thankful that if this is really happening that I donít have to see SMG act it out. Iím not a squeamish person and I can pretty much watch anything, but this is one time when Iím very grateful that weíre in a different medium. I have so much affection for this character and the thought of her being permanently maimed is heartbreaking.

If theyíre really going to do this then I hope thereís no quick fix. Maybe this is what they were all referring to when they spoke of a ďmajor life change?Ē I know that sounds odd after Iíve just expressed how upsetting I find this to be, but if theyíre going to go there then they might as well make the story as profound as possible. Recently Iíve been giving a great deal of thought to the psychological toll slaying has had on Buffy as a soldier who has spent years on the frontlines. So itís kind of a logical and realistic direction for her story to go in, albeit a terribly depressing one.

If I ever needed proof that Iím still seriously emotionally attached to BtVS, this was it. When you canít stop thinking about the fake maiming of a fake character all day, then you know the story has got a real hold on you.

At least S9 seems to be turning it up a notch. Iíve enjoyed the series (particularly #1) but I did sort of miss the crazy whirlwind ride of S8. But from #5 onwards the writers really seem to be letting loose.
Oh no. That's an awful turn of events. :(
So much of this makes no sense to me. First, there are two possibilities. One is, of course, that this is an April 1st issue, so it is a (bad) April Fool's joke. Or what we see is not what is really happening. Like, a dream, or something. So often, cover reveals are misleads. It is not like DH to kill a real spoiler so far in advance. And that does make me wonder if this is also way to raise interest and sales. I have to wonder why there are alternate covers as well- one showing Andrew, and one showing this huge reveal. Such a big change indicates no need for the second cover.

But let's for a minute consider this as real. So, Buffy loses an arm. Either it heals- but I fail to think that would carry any emotional resonance if it did. So it will not heal and she will have one arm. What would that mean, all things considered. Not much, in my estimation. It would just make it harder for her to do what she does, but she would have to go on doing it, since she basically has no real choice in the matter. Personally, I find the idea sort of uninteresting. And I can see the authors justifying this by saying, how long do soldiers fight without injury? Don't you think it's time Buffy suffers one? I am not so sure this is really creative. But that's me.

In the end, this could be part of the story and still be a mislead, covering up yet a bigger change for Buffy- like, her pregnancy...
Ok ok, buffy loosing her hand not cool smells similar to lindsay in angel loosing his in season 1, i mean come on she's loved and lusted after two vamps, been kinda gay, died twice, got a sister who was the key and is human now. her mom died and well her father didn't care much, she sacrifed her slayer powers and got rid of the magic, on and on it goes like a merry go round.

let the poor girl rest for a little while at least, i mean got to in some points as did spike.
Assuming it's not the fake-out it most likely is, having Jeanty draw this kind of scene is... not exactly a good idea. It doesn't look dramatic, horriffic, shocking; it looks like that Simpsons scene where Kirk van Houten got his arm cut off by a piano wire. And much like this will be, that was immediately retconned again.

[ edited by beergood on 2012-01-03 14:45 ]
If this is real and not a fake-out of some kind, it's very upsetting. Which could be good or bad, depending... right now, I'm wishing they'd go for the pregnancy thing, and I wasn't exactly fond of that development either.
The full set of plausible ways to go on this, as far as I can tell, is (as mentioned above)

1. Buffy loses her arm, period.
2. Buffy loses her arm and gets a bionic arm.
3. Buffy loses her arm and gets her arm back.
4. Not!Buffy* loses her arm (with all the above conditions)

*Not!Buffy being someone or something that will be mistaken for Buffy -- a bot, a decoy, etc. I think this is the least likely, personally. The idea that the whole thing is a misdirect to conceal a pregnancy is fascinating, but frankly it gives Joss and Dark Horse credit for more guile than they've shown previously about concealing future plots.
Really, how likely is it that they would spoil such a huge change, 3 months in advance? Does this make sense in any universe we are accustomed to living in? So, here is how to answer that question: ask Scott Allie if the cover is indeed the story, no misleads. If that's the case, he should admit it. Anyone here know how to do that?
Does this make sense in any universe we are accustomed to living in?

It's the same as getting an episode description for Buffy and Angel back in the day. No one was battering on the doors of The WB or UPN to see if they were misleading us in any shape or fashion. It's how the game is played.
Anyone here know how to do that?

Torture with soft noodles and whipped cream? Seriously, the whole point of this cover release was to tease and to titillate. I cannot feel but amused at the cold war escalation between the online fandom and the comics creative team - suits us right, I guess.
I'd say in the event of her getting her arm back in relatively short order, and maaaaybe even in the bionic arm situation, it wouldn't surprise me at all that it's on the cover. I've said elsewhere, out of context images on a cover are a hallmark of the comic book industry. You want to know what the hell is going on with Buffy's arm, right? Allie doesn't have anything to admit to or answer for, it's just standard comic book marketing as far as I can tell. And, in the "Buffy" context, I see no difference between it and the teaser for "Fool For Love". It's just easier to go this far with it in a comic. I feel something like 95% certainty that Buffy will still be a four limbed superhero by the end of 9.08, and probably wearing a sling on her vacation.
A lot of the responses are like "How can this happen?" and "This is so wrong" and the only response I can see is "Exactly." Nobody wants to lose an arm - shit happens. Just like parents dying.
Marvel revealed that Peter Parker would die in Ultimate Spiderman long before it actually happened. "The Death of Spiderman" was pretty much the biggest change you could ever get for a story, and they spoiled it early to generate a lot of buzz. Everybody wanted to know how he would die and who would replace him. It was the same with the "Death of Superman" arc back in the 90's which made headlines all around the world. An even more similar example is the iconic Batman series Knightfall, when Bane breaks Batman's back over his knee and leaves him a paraplegic. An image of the moment was released early as the cover for #497 and they titled it 'Bane Breaks the Bat', and it also created huge interest and suspense.

So there is precedent for this sort of thing. It can actually work to a company's advantage because then there's a lot of buildup to a particular issue and more people will rush out to buy it (as well as the issues leading up to it).

It's not just comics, either. The same thing happened in Australia when they were promoting the TV show The OC. Instead of trying to keep it a secret that Misha Barton's character (Marissa) was going to die, they revealed it to everyone weeks in advance and then promoted the hell out of it. Their campaign was basically a countdown to her death and the promos attempted to create suspense about how she would die/who would kill her.

Darkhorse obviously want to generate a lot of speculation about something so major happening to Buffy. And so far its worked. Now there's going to be a huge buildup to #8 with everybody either bracing themselves for the moment or just being plain curious to see how it all unfolds. Sometimes it's actually in a companies best interest to reveal spoilers. It's simply a different marketing strategy.

[ edited by vampmogs on 2012-01-03 17:24 ]
I don't for a moment believe that anybody would be bracing themselves for this particular moment because - see the above reactions. Snicker. The guessing game would be for how soon and how exactly will they fix her, if they'll need to fix her at all. Seriously - unfixable maiming of the titular character at the first 1/4 of the 2 seasons to come. Gimme a break. Emotionally I am not touched at all. Giles death and her breakup with Angel was far worse than any cartoonish amputations. If anything, this will diminish the emotional impact of the previous season and divorce the character from her origin in the tv series completely. Yeah, make her bionic arm with stainless steel claw - that would do it. Giggle. But I admit that if this is a feint intended to distract attention from all would-be -pregnancy theories - than it worked brilliantly, because nobody will be discussing upcoming ##5,6,7 anymore.
You don't speak for everyone. I will be bracing myself for this moment and am not 'snickering' at all. I'm well aware of how much you don't care, you've repeated so several times now, but there are people who do.

And the fact that this one variant cover has generated 85+ comments (not to mention a great deal of discussion elsewhere) is proof of what this kind of marketing can do. The threads for the previous covers didnít get anywhere near as much buzz. The closest was the domesticated!Spuffy cover for #7. It doesnít matter what everybodyís individual reactions are. All that matters is theyíve got people interested, theyíve got people talking, and now all eyes will be on #8. Mission accomplished.

[ edited by vampmogs on 2012-01-03 17:35 ]
Being a cynic Vampmogs I think mission accomplished has to wait until they see whether this helps sales.
I don't for a moment believe that anybody would be bracing themselves for this particular moment because - see the above reactions. Snicker. The guessing game would be for how soon and how exactly will they fix her, if they'll need to fix her at all. Seriously - unfixable maiming of the titular character at the first 1/4 of the 2 seasons to come. Gimme a break. Emotionally I am not touched at all. Giles death and her breakup with Angel was far worse than any cartoonish amputations. If anything, this will diminish the emotional impact of the previous season and divorce the character from her origin in the tv series completely. Yeah, make her bionic arm with stainless steel claw - that would do it. Giggle. But I admit that if this is a feint intended to distract attention from all would-be -pregnancy theories - than it worked brilliantly, because nobody will be discussing upcoming ##5,6,7 anymore.

Clearly, nobody cared about 8.31 or 8.32 after the Twilight spoiler came out. Except for how that isn't true at all. And that was unintentional.

I honestly think all this fuss is hilarious -- this is Mal's ear, writ large. That's it. There is almost certainly nothing about this going farther than that went on "Firefly".

The comic medium allows them to demonstrate the zompire threat and the resulting emergency made more real by the lack of an easy healing spell in a way that they just couldn't do on TV very well. Buffy will be fighting zompires and then DUN! one of them gets a grip on her arm and rips the damn thing off. Spike and Dowling will blast/beat their way through the mob to get to her, Spike will sweep her up in his arms, they'll run to a hospital or bug ship, there will be a time jump in the issue of 3 days of post-surgery and such and she'll wake up with her arm back on, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. And all this nuttiness about the politics and sexuality of amputation will have been such a waste. Oh, the lack of emotional impact! Oh, the disconnect from the TV show! Oh... wait, she still has an arm and nothing all that major has changed. Oh. Nevermind.

I don't see this as a cheap sales trick because -- again -- this is how even successful comics often market themselves, with a "WOW WTF" on the cover that still basically doesn't change the entire nature of either the story or the character.
Being a cynic Vampmogs I think mission accomplished has to wait until they see whether this helps sales.

Fair point. We won't know for a while if all of this buzz translates into bigger sales, but it's certainly got people talking. If you compare this discussion to the thread for the other #8 cover (the one with Andrew, Simone and a hologram of Buffy) it's pretty clear why Darkhorse would release a spoiler like this. The Phil Noto cover managed to generate a total of 7 comments. Jeanty's variant has so far managed 89 comments (and counting). And that's just Whedonesque. I think it speaks for itself, really.

[ edited by vampmogs on 2012-01-03 17:47 ]
ask Scott Allie if the cover is indeed the story

Why? He's already quoted in the linked article.
King, I really hope this lasts a bit longer than that. As much as it upsets me, if they're going to maim Buffy they might as well squeeze a lot of angst out of it. It has a lot of potential if they do it right and I do think it could give the story some much needed "oomph!"

They did establish that Andrew was working on a robotic hand so it does seem like perfect setup for this storyline. However, if they must do that, I hope they at least leave her injured for an arc or two.
I could see, like, 3 issues max. Now, I am willing to concede a small, <1% chance they really want to just go with Buffy, Amputee Slayer, but with all affection I have for Roland of Gilead and Susannah Dean, I don't see Joss as that guy. Plus, it's another animal altogether to have a one-armed Slayer be believable than it is if her stock in trade was as a gun-hand.

To me, it's... "War Stories". Doesn't go farther than Mal's ear being carved off and stuck back on, IMO. Gives Allie's answer to what was essentially a Spuffy comment some coherence if "wait til Issue #8" meant "wait until they bond over Spike rescuing her and her severed limb". It's probably the perfect event to shoot Spike past his (perfectly reasonable) line of thought that Buffy needs normal because he'll realize he was probably only able to save her arm by being who he is, etc. I don't include that as 'shippy comment -- it's not even my 'ship -- just as an analysis of the hows and whys for this to be in the story.
King I think you're wrong, Spike will blame himself for let it happen. And where's that Koh dude? Wasn't he supposed to be at Buffy's service? And when are the solicitations for the issue due out?
March 2007. Almost 5 years now -- that's how long people have been following every development of these comics to report how completely uninvested they are. If I have my math right, in terms of real-world fan interaction time, that's a year longer than from Buffy and Giles first meeting in the library to Buffy jumping off of Glory's tower and the story nearly ending there.

Don't like the comics and want to talk about it? Fine. That's fair. But chiming in on thread after thread to discuss new developments in the story from covers, synopses, previews, and issues, really undermines claims that people are uninvested, bored, not emotionally involved, not to some degree compelled by the story that is being told. Which is not the same thing as liking the story, but it is also a far cry from lack of interest. It might not be motivated by enjoyment but it is a very dedicated form of active engagement with the ongoing storyline.

Certainly the issues that inspire the most fan furor are not limited to March, but they do seem to mark the anniversaries of the comic's premiere. In 2008, it was Buffy sleeping with Satsu (#12). 2009 (#23) was low key unless there's something about that issue I've forgotten (Andrew, Simone, demon spider). 2010 (#33) was the reveal that Angel had been Twilight all along. 2011 was the hiatus. It 2012, it seems Buffy and Xander may have new material for clever inside jokes rooted in pathos.
sexuality of amputation

Matt, I was referring to the competing arguments over whether or not its fanservice for amputee fetish, like Dorotea implied, and whether or not its implicitly misogynist to take her arm off. Both of which are laugh-offs, of course.

Sunfire, great post. I've been gargling the salty tears of people who post monthly, weekly, daily to tell everyone how much the comics suck and how uninvested they are in them.
@KingofCretins you took my quotation from the tv tropes (Bandage Babe) way too seriously. I was joking, I swear. Merely musing on why the female superheroine can never loose an eye or have her pretty face otherwise disfigured, but lopping off a limb is OK, cause (Dollhouse - anybody ?) she is still considered sexy enough with a prosthetic.


Many are invested in the fandom itself - and the lengthy discussions more so than in the story.

[ edited by dorotea on 2012-01-03 19:05 ]
Dollhouse also had a female character -- one who appeared more frequently than Summer's -- whose face was visibly scarred.
Many are invested in the fandom itself - and the lengthy discussions more so than in the story.

I understand that. I do help mod a fan site, after all. I like talking about Buffy on the internet just a little bit myself! What I'm finding tiring is the repeat comments that the newest development in the story that has people talking -- take your pick of 5 years' worth of them -- is yet another reason the story's no longer interesting, engaging, emotionally resonant, worth following. This is clearly not the case.
is yet another reason the story's no longer interesting, engaging, emotionally resonant, worth following

I had a chance to discuss this once with Jeanty at length - to all my arguments at why " - " -" he replied something like - this is your only new source of Buffy-stories anyway, so you will be reading this book no matter what we do. I now tend to agree that to some extent even if Buffy will be turned into a Stainless Steel Rat with chainsaws instead of limbs - some fans will follow her story anyhow. Mostly it is inertia and some shippers would want the stainless steel Buffy to be romanced anyhow. :) It does not mean the story will be still 'emotionally engaging' to all though. LOL. Myself - I somewhat love this crazy fandom, but only to the point.
To be fair, the vast, vast majority of those that have lost interest in the comic are not posting about it at all.

[ edited by NotaViking on 2012-01-03 21:07 ]
I love Buffy. I love Joss. No matter what happens. They will always be number one and this will always be the greatest story ever told. Whatever happens is going to happen for a reason. Everything always comes full circle. I think the only one single thing in 9 seasons (and 5+ of angel) that didn't have a purpose was the cheese man. And he didn't wear the cheese guys, the cheese wore him.
I find the idea that willingness to follow the comic through its twists and turns is a function of 'shipper blunders (i.e. "romancing Buffy the steel rat") rather absurd. No fewer than five unique flavors of Buffy 'ship -- with a potential to go to six -- have been sampled in the comic continuation, which means if anything that they are inviting more butthurt than they are giving fanservice on that score on a month to month basis. Most with a 'shipper investment are enduring the comics the 80% of the time that a 'ship other than their own is receivesng focus. But, what's always forgotten is that the percentage of fans for whom a 'ship preference is what gets their fandom out of bed in the morning is probably less than half. So the implication that Season 9 and a completely out of context and almost certainly temporary amputation are things that will only have an audience because some 'ship will get play is as baseless as it is rude.
I agree with dorotea. The story long ago stopped interesting me, but I keep focusing in on it because I keep hoping it will again interest me. And it is the only existing source of new Buffy. Where else can I go? But the story line remains uninteresting to me. But I can still speculate as to meaning- meaning that I hope goes a particular way, though it likely will not. To me the most troubling thing about the comic is that it has worked to damage all that came before it. I know many will not agree with me here, but I no longer see this as a feminist story, I think they got it badly wrong with Twangel, I think it is undoing the work that created a female heroine- hell, Buffy had sex "under the influence" and that's a best interpretation of cosmic sex...

And though I know that comics are marketed the way they are, I don't like it. Nor, for that matter, do I like how they are marketing the last 2 episodes of Catherine Willows on CSI- but in this case, it is a way of honoring someone (Marg Helgenberger) who put 12 years in. That is not the case for Buffy comics. It is all about sales. Fine, I get that. But I think it is disrespectful. Again, that's me and I understand no one will agree with me.
I am not having a problem with the amputation or even the announcement, now that I get why comic books do what they do.(thanks @KingsofCretin)

She's a slayer; it's about time that she lost a limb. Yeah, it's horrible but she's literally been fighting a war with very few PERMANENT physical injuries for a long time now. She's not made of steel.

I hope that the consequences of this event are fully explored. With such a profound loss, even with slayer healing, Buffy should be facing many physical and emotional hurdles. I don't want the emotions regarding the injury to be swept under the rug because it would be boring in a comic. I am still a bit miffed that I missed out on Buffy's grief for Giles.

I get the frustation with this medium that this announcement has stirred. The comics have a very different vibe and pace to them then the shows. The wait for a story or character development takes forever. With a TV show, we have answers or a sense of direction with in a week or two of a pivotal event, save breaks. IMO, the mythology and cannonicity of the comics are even more elastic then the series and then with the wait between issues, it's hard to get a real sense of a story. This announcement seems really wild. It's hard to even speculate how this would impact Buffy when we don't even know the Season's badness. I don't think that this announcement was designed to appeal to us who want to analyze and understand Buffy. This announcement is for us to generate heat and then the comic book stores to up their orders.

PS - a benefit of Bionic Buffy -- more scenes between Andrew (assuming he builds the arm) and Buffy.
Hey, amputation didn't slow down that major character in The Walking Dead, so Buffy should do just fine. It doesn't take two arms (or two eyes) to be a hero, she just needs a heart.
Reminds me of a joke I read in Highlights, I think, when I was a kid. Q: Where does the king keep his armies?
Well, this just popped up on my Twitter feed, and I thought it was hilarious:
Spoiler alert for those not up to date with the Hellboy comics.
Buffy doesn't *need* a bionic limb to prove she has battle scars from all her years of battle. Buffy wears the evidence of all that she has lost in the sad expression of her face. In the inability to find a reason to connect in new relationships. Or by her own words that everything gets stripped away. She doesn't need to be physically maimed to *prove* anything about the crap that is her life. She loses everything all the time.

I find the idea very distateful on about every level. It isn't funny or cute because at the end of the day we don't know what is real and what is a mislead.
"To me, it's... "War Stories". Doesn't go farther than Mal's ear being carved off and stuck back on, IMO."

Oh thanks! For some reason I read that as car instead of ear, and I was like, what does that have to do with Buffy getting her arm chopped off?

This cover was more shocking to me than Giles' death. Maybe because by that point I had completely disengaged from Season 8. I have been slowly engaging emotionally again with the comics since 9 started.
I found out about this via a Tweet accidentally so I came here to confirm.

Reaction: Close eyes and chant "Trust Joss Whedon's vision, trust Joss Whedon's vision". Scream unintelligibly. Resume chanting.

[ edited by Jonnathan on 2012-01-04 04:45 ]

[ edited by Jonnathan on 2012-01-04 05:34 ]
I think Xane makes a good point. I felt very disconnected when I finished season 8. Now in season 9 I feel much more closer to the story emotionally. I think it's a slow build, when Buffy loses her arm (if this is really, really, 'real' real) it'll cause probably a bigger emotional impact than what we are currently feeling.
But there has to be a reason they deliberately spoiled it...
I'm scared for spike's safety

[ edited by RichiePalmer on 2012-01-04 08:14 ]
Me and another fan, we just came up with a theory. She thinks that Spike's ship may have advanced technologies to regenerate a limb.

Now - nobody knows anything about bugs' technologies - so Joss has a carte-blanche and can go anywhere. He can make Buffy's new arm magical. She may be able to move objects with it. She may be able to get Wolverin claws.

Or, say, she may be able to heal with her magic hand. This option appeals to me particularly, because it works so well on a metaphorical level.

So, what do you think? Do you think it's possible? Is there a flaw in our idea? What other options do you see?
All I can think of is that line in The Freshman:

Sunday: This arm's not looking so good. It might need to come off.
Buffy: You wanna know the truth? I only need one.
@Knuckleball - you're evil!

But, really, I don't think Joss does it for the shock value. I think he needs this particulat plot point to build an arc that will take Buffy in a new direction. Buffy is "manus", "hand" in the Scoobies dynamic. Getting a new "manus" could be a hint at a radical change of direction of her journey.

For example, she was a killer - she becomes a healer.

I don't mean it literally. But it somehow feels right if Buffy starts doing something more constructive than dusting vampires. Her new hand could somehow incorporate Severin's ability to suck demon part out of vampires. (So she can't touch Spike! Angst ahoy! Joss--> happy) Or transform demon energy into something good.

[ edited by Moscow Watcher on 2012-01-04 14:49 ]
"But, really, I don't think Joss does it for the shock value."

Where as I think he and DH are. Look at how they're presenting all this for a start.

Oh lord, yet another example of how far this franchise has fallen since moving into graphic form imo.....
Sue, I was rewatching season 5 trailers at YouTube. Then I tempted another fan (you can see our talk at BuffyComics comm). And we agreed that promos always presented the actual show in a quite skewed way, to put it mildly.
Oh yes, but the point being imo the crass way in which DH is choosing to depict all this is just leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

I mean whether they end up leaving her disabled long or short term It doesn't matter as It's more about how this is coming across, which to me at least smacks too much of the old 'role up, role up and look at the freak show' school of advertising, which I'm sure Whedon can't surely want?
Again, Joss Whedon. Josh Weston. Joe Swedon. There is no "Dark Horse" doing this or "Dark Horse" doing that with this book that isn't answerable to Joss. That argument was long settled when critics of Season 6 took aim at Marti Noxon, no?
Okay, Joss Whedon then. He's fully to blame for this nonsense with no help from any of the DH writers until I hear otherwise. :D
Sue, I was shocked by the cover, but I wasn't offended. As to advertising methods - I try to be philosophical about them.
I gave up on that approach way back in season 8 I'm afraid. *shudders at the memory of the space shag*
I am with Sue; I loath how comics are advertised. I loath how they screw with the fandom- the very people they actually need to make the comic a success. Truth is, we know more about Buffy and its history/backstory than most of the current writers do; we can see errors when they occur that they did not even know were errors. This is about sales. It is not about story. The story is the means for the sales. After all, Satsu was a critical development for Buffy and her story, right? Oh, yeah, it really wasn't. Sure got a lot of press, though. Cynical, I know.
If only DH put as much effort into the writing as they seem to do with the publicity then maybe I'd like them a wee bit more.
Covers are, intrinsically, about sales. They aren't about story. Ask any novelist, 99% of whom have no control whatsoever as to what goes on the cover of their books. The cover of a comic book is principally a means of selling the comic book. That's all there is, there isn't any more. In a comic, the creative engine that makes the story also makes the covers, but that doesn't change the fact that the purpose of the cover is to close the distance between the shelf the comic is on and the cash register.

EDIT: You still mean Joss Whedon ;)

[ edited by KingofCretins on 2012-01-04 18:01 ]

This thread has been closed for new comments.

You need to log in to be able to post comments.
About membership.

joss speaks back home back home back home back home back home