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January 11 2012

(SPOILER) Discuss Buffy Season 9 #5. The details for "Slayer, Interrupted" are out thanks to the digital release of the issue at midnight and as Sam Beckett used to say, "oh boy".

Well,what many speculated and figured before issue 1 had even come out over five months ago is now confirmed.Buffy is pregnant.I won't have my issue until later but I've read a full summary.It sounds like the issue is almost a sequel to,"Restless" which does sound cool.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2012-01-11 10:37 ]
It's less obscure than Restless. But it's still some effective story-telling in my book.

@Simon -- it could be "oh boy" but it could also be "oh girl"!!
For some reason,I picture a girl.Maybe because they already gave Angel a son so giving Buffy a daughter feels right to me.
@Simon -- it could be "oh boy" but it could also be "oh girl"!!

Or twins. I'm sure somebody somewhere has fanwanked about Buffy being Fray and Harth's mother, unlikely as that is. Well we've had the traditional season game-changer, be interesting to see how the Mother Slayer storyline plays out.

As for tacky soap opera territory, I vaguely recall that kind of chatter about the spoilers for Dawn before Season 5 aired. I think. It was more than a decade ago.
And speaking of Dawn, with the "unlock the key" are they again teasing Dawn's death?
I got the impression from Maggie's summary that the "unlock the key" is refering to the Scythe.I could be wrong though.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2012-01-11 11:22 ]
I'm confused.

[ edited by Simon on 2012-01-12 23:14 ]
Consensus seems to be that

[ edited by Simon on 2012-01-12 23:15 ]
Getting into the Willow stuff for a second.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2012-01-11 11:38 ]
Well, okay, that's one prediction I made came out right. For a change. :-)

Comment: On the cover, that sure looks like some sort of an evil Tara in Buffy's dress.

I like the idea that Buffy is an ancestor for Fray, if not her mother. "Fray, I am your mother!"

PS. I have a non-thread Joss question and not sure where to ask it. Simple question, though, if anyone knows the answer. Was Mutant Enemy named from the lyrics from the Yes song?
Now, I am annoyed. I'll be ok, but seriously consent issues (fairy or sex) again? I'm not surprised but I had hopes that the amputation was putting the pregnancy thing away.

[ edited by hann23 on 2012-01-11 14:46 ]

[ edited by Simon on 2012-01-12 23:15 ]
There's more irony dripping off that particular "Anchorman" reference than human speech could articulate.

[ edited by Simon on 2012-01-12 23:16 ]
There's more irony dripping off that particular "Anchorman" reference than human speech could articulate.

Not sure I understand what you mean here, but have to say this looks very like a personal insult of another poster. Is that allowed on this forum?
Buffy being pregnant without fully making that choice for herself to become a parent is, IMO, the final degradation for the character. This is either a mystical pregnancy, in which case she is being used as little more than a sex/birth/avatar or if this is the result of party drunk Buffy, it is one of the most horrific thing that could happen to a woman.

I just don't get it - I did not think things could get worse for Buffy than becoming a willing victim of Angel/Twangel but Buffy becoming pregnant without it being her choice is even worse. Well, I have to take that back, Buffy being connected to the deaths of all those people and slayers from The Great Space Frak is still worse.
I'd love the names of all the worlds' parents who "fully made the choice for themselves" to become parents.

[ edited by KingofCretins on 2012-01-11 15:52 ]
Provoking, insulting each other and winding each other up isn't something I'm fond of here. So if I see anymore more this behaviour I'll not be to be happy. Or to be it another way, your posting privileges will be suspended immediately*.

*maybe forever
I apologize for disrespecting the house, Simon. I'll do better to stifle that sort of pointed editorial remark.

Back to the thing, the anonybaby being an anonybaby probably isn't even what Joss is doing, the whole "Heinrich" non-character that sounds flowers is probably meant to jump on the audience grenade as the biological father, and he's just a faceless entity that is there to establish that, no, Buffy was not raped, yes, she does know who the father is, no, she doesn't want to involve him or obligate him (or conversely, he could be a low key Robin Masters who does more for his kids than Hank Summers does -- post Season 3 retcon Hank).
Just want to check-anyone have an iPad here? Is the comic on your DH app yet? It's online, but hasn't come on my app yet.
Good for Heinrich, then. He seemed like a nice person sending her roses the day after.
Ahem, about he anonybaby. One cannot get a positive pregnancy test and start throwing up a week after the encounter. Or even ten days after the encounter - and that's stretching it, since Buffy could not have been out there on the roofs for a week after stopping Severin. She has to be at least a few months pregnant to have the throw up reflex. And I will certainly eat my hat before I believe that Joss has turned pro-life evangelical and would have his feminist icon character not even consider an abortion *if* pregnancy is a result of drunken sex with random dude.

[ edited by dorotea on 2012-01-11 16:29 ]
I really enjoyed the issue, I thought it was well done, and was a great callback to the previous season. As for the pregnancy thing, I think we have to wait and see how it pans out before passing judgment. If Buffy got pregnant while drunk, then it was most likely her choice as much as it was anyone else's. I don't get the impression that something non-consensual happened, and I don't see Joss walking into rape territory with her again after the whole Spike Season 6 thing.
Why do you assume it's only been a week or ten days? Nothing has been happening so quickly to require that. 9.01 to 9.02, for instance, could have several weeks between, as could 9.05 after 9.04.

And I just don't even know what to do with the idea that you have to be "pro-life evangelical" to not consider an abortion. That's a political/philosophical perspective. Buffy could be as "pro-choice" or as "pro-life" as the driven snow in either direction, it wouldn't be relevant; there are plenty of people for whom, regardless of their political/philosophical view, it would just never even occur to them to consider it for themselves. And that is also not an implicit editorial on either theirs or Joss' part.

My guess is that either it just doesn't come up at all, or it gets the "Juno" treatment where it's considered, and then rejected, but for completely unspecified and presumably apolitical reasons. Assuming the point is to tell a story about Buffy actually being pregnant and having a baby, about the stupidest waste of time possible would be to pick a fight over smashmorshion by discussing it in detail.
Just want to check-anyone have an iPad here? Is the comic on your DH app yet? It's online, but hasn't come on my app yet.

Looks like it's not up on my iPhone app yet either. But this is my first time using it and I'm finding it the opposite of user friendly so far, so i may be mistaken.
I got in on my ipad at exactly midnight PST. But I went to the website on my computer to order it and then downloaded it to my ipad. I didn't try going to the store through the ipad, because that didn't work two weeks ago on A&F.

There's also some squiggle with your fingers you might have to do to refresh your collection on your ipad in order to get the new purchase to show up.

[ edited by Maggie on 2012-01-11 16:45 ]
Why do you assume it's only been a week or ten days? Nothing has been happening so quickly to require that. 9.01 to 9.02, for instance, could have several weeks between, as could 9.05 after 9.04.

Actually, it is a direct flow from #1 to # 2 - the demon collector is revealed then the next issue picks up. And no, there could not have been several weeks or even several days between 4 and 5 , because Buffy has no money and no place to crash and no reason not to go into her apartment. And the roomies reaction is pretty much - we see you the first time since we found the Slayer's stuff in your trunk. So, the timeline of the first arc is quite clearly uninterrupted few days.
@Sunfireb@Maggie Ah cool so you can order it from the website and it will go straight on the iPad app then?
Buffy went to her bedroom with no problem before she encounters the roomies. I agree it's weird they're deciding to bring up the situation just then rather than when Buffy first came home, but I don't think there's a necessary conclusion that this is all one continuous action.
Meanwhile, Georges has broadly hinted that it happened at the party; Allie's answer to my question about Heinrich was evasive in a way that said the guy was going to matter; and the roses Heinrich sent showed up in subsequent issues. I'm not as fond of eating hats as you are, but I'd bet some cash that Heinrich's the guy. He's convenient for the reasons King has given.

More importantly, the story isn't about who's the daddy. It's about slayerhood and motherhood... a story line that retrospectively was being set up as far back as Retreat.

[ edited by Maggie on 2012-01-11 16:51 ]
Re: timeline. Maybe we're simply supposed to suspend our disbelief?
Buffy's physiology is not exactly textbook for a human, after all.
Ah, ah, I know when I see the staples of my fav soap opera.

Allie has been evasive about the timeline from S8 into S9 ( maybe was always in his answers). The only evidence of true time was that 4 months in Buffy dialog with her boss about the spilled drinks. It is quite possible that S9 starts a day or two after #40 of S8.

Jeanty's answer simple might mean that it is bad for the baby's health to get so drunk while pregnant - so she will be worried there might be consequences.

To put it simply - it is quite possible that the baby is Angel's.
especially if you take into account his next arc being named 'Daddy issues'.

[ edited by dorotea on 2012-01-11 16:58 ]
Buffy's physiology is not exactly textbook for a human, after all.

She came back different.
Which time and from which metaphysical place? An unplanned pregnancy after a drunk one night stand may be the most normal thing that's ever happened to her.
Good catch. You're right. Then it's down to Bellisario's Maxim, because she either had sex at that party she doesn't remember, or had sex in the past several weeks that she does remember but hasn't mentioned. What she didn't do is get pregnant from sex with a vampire well more than half a year earlier. To be clear, you think it's more likely that she's morning sick from 6+ month old sex with a creature incapable of impregnating her in the first place, than that she's morning sick from pregnancy from sex with a human man at a party a couple weeks before?

[ edited by KingofCretins on 2012-01-11 17:03 ]
it is quite possible that the baby is Angel's.

Given that Joss always goes for the maximum pain - yes, a strong possibility.

ETA: King - if rules stand in the way of a juicy story, Joss usually rewrites the rules.

[ edited by Moscow Watcher on 2012-01-11 17:06 ]
Which time and from which metaphysical place?

From heaven.

Well, I said that there was nothing wrong with you, but... you are different. Shifting you out of... f-f-from where you were... funneling your essence back into your body... i-it, it altered you on a basic molecular level.

Angel as the father? Not a chance. I'd wager any amount of money against you -- except that it's illegal to bet, and I'd think it unethical to basically take money from you with zero risk to myself.

I'll repeat: this story isn't a who's the daddy story. It's not a soap opera. It's a story about a slayer trying to figure out how she fits in with ordinary life. Diapers are pretty darned ordinary.
Again, guys -- let's pretend we are in a mythology that's lost its self-respect and Buffy is pregnant by a vampire. Fine. Okay. Now, someone explain why it makes any sense that Buffy has had no symptoms and isn't showing after the 6 months to almost a year since she had sex with him.

Unless she's pregnant with Blade. Or Renesmee. Or the Star Baby. Or the Kwitsatz Haderach. AND they all have gestation of about 20 months.
What she didn't do is get pregnant from sex with a vampire well more than half a year earlier.

More then half a year earlier is hypothetical. The only true reference (canonical) in the text itself is 4 months.

The vampire in question was also in a god-like state with all his curses overwritten and his privates invincible. RE :'What makes you think it is not all over?' The new verse was supposed to be populated, maybe ? and finally there was that interview with Meltzer right after issue 35 that gave me the first idea. Buffy is wearing clothes of that Slayer that Spike killed in the subway - and that 'was selling the moment' to Mr. Meltzer. The moment being one right after having sex with Angel.
Eeew, Buffy and Angel weren't like invulnerable gods when they f#$%ed? ovaries invulnerable?

They were able to hurt each-other (leaving scratches) only at the end

[ edited by anca on 2012-01-11 17:13 ]
If your argument is that morning sickness is impossible 10 days after the fact, then you've got to deal with the fact that a first onset of morning sickness after the fourth month isn't exactly the norm, either.

I thought the selling point for Brad was just the juxtaposition he'd been making throughout the issue about slayers/vampires as mortal enemies and the big resolution in vampire/slayer sex. Buffy in Nikki's clothes brings that all together because Spike is the one who killed Nikki and loved Buffy. It's just another instantiation of that basic tension.

Since we will be revisiting Nikki in the next few issues, it's also worth observing that we've never heard the faintest breath about who Robin's father was. Like I said, the daddy isn't the issue -- he's not the slightest presence in the story. It's about a woman who is a mother and a slayer.
I'm with Maggie on wishing so badly I could take your money when it becomes even more obvious than it is that Angel is not the father of Buffy's child. You're wrong. Not much more to say than that.

Well, other than that this is exactly why Joss would choose to make sure to have a non-character be the father of Buffy's child. People with a romantic preference for Buffy are lining up to get their guy's paternal hands on the kid like Wolfram & Hart and vampire cults were after Connor in Season 3.

EDIT: Where is the textual confirmation that only 4 months passed between the spacefrak and 9.05? There were time jumps between both 8.39 and 8.40 and between 8.40 and 9.01 according to Jeanty, Allie, and others.

[ edited by KingofCretins on 2012-01-11 17:18 ]
I'll repeat: this story isn't a who's the daddy story.

The whole issue 1 (penned by Joss) is a set-up for "who's the daddy" story. We're presented with six or seven candidates for paternity to make the audience wonder who of them slept with Buffy.

It's a story about a slayer trying to figure out how she fits in with ordinary life. Diapers are pretty darned ordinary.

But it's not a realistic drama. It's a heroic fantasy. The baby storyline won't be about diapers. It will be about impossible choices, terrible sacrifices, heartbreaking decisions.

(I don't want to bet anything on Angel or Spike or other character. I only mean that Joss selected the father using the principle of maximum pain for Buffy).
I'm *also* at a loss how it's somehow more plausible that Buffy is pregnant by a vampire than that she can have a positive test after, let's call it 10 days.
From heaven.

Yeah I was being facetious, sorry. I knew what you meant. She was superduper before and after then, is what I mean. We have no idea how a Slayer pregnancy may differ from the usual kind, even before you factor in Buffy-specific adventures. Although those certainly could be affecting things too.
I'm *also* at a loss how it's somehow more plausible that Buffy is pregnant by a vampire

Off the cuff --

He knocked her up in season 8, but her slayer essence was blocking the development of the foetus - until Severin took it away. (Severin's de-demonizing starts with reproductory organs).

He spent a lot of time on the bug ship. Bugs are very prolific. Maybe there are special vibes aboard the ship. Or maybe bugs used some advanced medical methods when ther were treating his wounds.

Seriously, Joss doesn't care about rules. If they stand in the way of the story he wants to tell, he bends or rewrites them.
I don't know what y'all are talking about.

The baby is *obviously* Xander's.

... I kid, I kid.

Not sure why people are so down on this latest plotline. Buffy has been through a lot worse, but pregnancy? It's new territory. I'm down to see the real life drama unfold. After all, being a parent is *hard*. It's full of huge sacrifices and seemingly impossible choices. Add that into the slayery mix, and there's plenty of opportunity for compelling story and character growth.
This may have been an interesting issue and launching of a great story-line... if the writing were better. For me, Chambliss just isn't cutting it at the moment.

I'm not even gonna mention the art. I don't know how Moline varies in quality so much. From great in something like the Willow one-shot in S8 to sloppy as hell in this issue.

At least Giles was finally mentioned. Finally. You'd almost forget that he was dead, reading this book. :/
According to Joss, Joss cares about rules. He's pretty openly mocked other genre shows/movies in commentary, several by name, for their lack of respect for their own rules. He bent over backwards to buy the plausibility of Connor. He is not the writer to suck so much that he would just insert "oh yeah, by the way, vampires can get humans pregnant now" as an after the fact mythological change. There are sucky enough writers that would, but he is not one. Not yet, anyway.

Besides, Moscow, my point was what is more plausible, a TV/comic book land pregnancy test that works earlier than it should to reveal a normal human pregnancy, or a vampire/human pregnancy in a mythology that heretofore does not include vampires that can reproduce? There is only one answer to that.
Besides, Moscow, my point was what is more plausible, a TV/comic book land pregnancy test that works earlier than it should to reveal a normal human pregnancy, or a vampire/human pregnancy in a mythology that heretofore does not include vampires that can reproduce?

It's regular vampires who can't reproduce. Angel already have two children - Connor and Kitty Twilight.

But, overall, I agree, you have a point.
The baby *is* obviously Xander's:

From BS9 #1:

"Hey, you wanna talk 'bout it? Nobody'll miss us; We got a few minutes..."
"Then let's use that few minutes to not talk about it."
"--Never has to know."

Personally, I would prefer Angel to be the father, but that wouldn't make much sense. Buffy would get a two-for-one with that mystical pregnancy, they birthed a universe AND she gets a bun in the oven.
It kinda makes sense having Xander as the father. Buffy and Xander have this big secret, they slept together, they don't want Dawn to know about it. It happened before the party, so a lot of time has passed and Buffy can have morning sickness. Buffy is too scared when she finds out she's pregnant. She can't tell Xander about it, it'll wreck his relationship with Dawn. So, she confides on Spike and together they work through this. Twilight is Angel?
Right, I have let this go on for too long.

There are a number of people who do not like the comics in general. Not just one issue, or one aspect. They do not like them and they will tell us they do not like them every single thread. You know who you are, and we know it too.

That stops now. I want to give these threads back to people who buy the comics, enjoy reading the comics and want to discuss them seriously.

New rule:

If you do not like the comics, you are no longer allowed to post in comics threads. Post again and you're banned from this site forever. All this at the mods' discretion.

There will be no discussion of this rule here on the board, in this thread or any other thread.
No Xander is Heinrich.

If Xander is the father, I'll be shocked. I think that it's a smoke and mirrors thing. Something else is going on between Buffy and Xander.

I was feeling nauseated by day 14 of my pregnancy and was hospitalized at 9 weeks. Symptoms can hit hard and fast. There are also tests that can be done 3 days prior to usual.
Maury: "In the case of one month old Anonybaby....Xander, you are the father!"

Audience goes wild. Angel storms of set, and Buffy is sat there looking frantic.

Sorry, it was too good to pass up. I like the pregnancy development! And since when is Buffy not soap-operaesque? I feel like there have always been soapy themes. I think Xander is the father, or it's a latent mystical pregnancy from the space boink.
Anyone have ideas about all the text from the dreamscape sequence about Buffy not being The Slayer, having part of the Slayer in her and now longer a girl is connected to this birth?

As for the parental question - who is the daddy - not being the important factor - but that this is a story of Buffy having to learn how to live in this world. Yes, that is the stated fundamental premise for series, but I do think that unless this is birth is the result of Buffy having a relationship that includes sex outside of the info we have been given thus far, it is an important factor.

And unless Heinrich was inserted into the first issue - Buffy part drunk scenario as a red herring, he does have a part in this affair. After all, the cable car scene with Buffy included the element of Heinz symbol on a carrier, and it also included the Witch with a young girl whispering in her ear.

[ edited by nmcil on 2012-01-11 19:30 ]
I wonder if there's any correlation between "Slayer Interrupted" -and Buffy not a girl anymore, but mother. I mean after the pregnancy ends, will Buffy become again a Slayer? Or only while pregnant she's no longer a slayer?

Nice touch foreshadowing the fairy by putting blue wings on Buffy's green shirt.
I have my copy of Buffy S9 # 5 now."Slayer Interrupted."

First of all,I've already given my thought on the Buffy pregnancy news elsewhere.I'm open to it depending on how it's handled.Having followed the spoilers and such,I think most of us who did knew Buffy was going to be pregnant about over five months ago.So i was already used to the idea.

I want to give it a fair chance since I ended up loving the Connor storyline on Angel.Granted,I couldn't stand the baby stuff in the middle of season 3 from about episodes 10-14 with,"Provider" being the apex on that front.Pretty much everything after Connor was kidnapped,I loved and the birth arc from "Offspring" to "Lullaby".I thought something really great came out of that with Connor becoming one of my favorite characters.So I'm not going to write off.Granted,I'm not expecting this to be anything like that.I expect following Buffy through the pregnancy being the focus with the Angel becoming a father arc came at it from a different starting place(Darla already ready to pop early in the season and Connor's birth in the first part of season 3).

As for the issue as a whole.I liked it.It's the first issue of Buffy's book in season 9 that i liked across the board.I thought the first arc was disappointing and dull and was more interested in the new characters over the core cast.But did think each issue had some type of improvement issue to issue.

"Slayer Interrupted" felt like the spiritual cousin to "Restless."Yes,it was more straight forward but it had a similar vibe to me.I think there was a missed opportunity for Cheese Man return appearance.

I loved all the Buffy and Willow interaction both real world and dream.This really shined a spotlight on them going forward.As I've said before,I think this issue sets up Willow crossing over to Angel & Faith down the line a Willow miniseries later on.

Also loved seeing the Giles nod.I don't think there was ever any doubt she missed him but nice to see that affirmed here.

I've always liked Karl Moline's art and that continues here.

Overall,I thought this was the best issue so far and while I still like Angel & Faith more,that story arc is just much more interesting to me then what's being told in Buffy's book and I feel is the stronger book.I think this has some interesting setups.I'm really looking forward to seeing Willlow's quest and I'm curious about where there going with the pregnancy plot.I'm starting to have a idea about how I think the issue 8 spoiler will fit in that I've mentioned before and elsewhere.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2012-01-11 19:42 ]
So, Buffy really is pregnant?

I agree with @Buffyfantic. So far I liked this issue the most - even though Joss' #1 was not that bad overall. I hope some constructive criticism of the comic is allowed? Also I happen to like Moline's art a lot , so that was an extra bonus for me.

RE: you are not the Slayer. I think that was the fairy hijacking the dream and pretending to be the First whilst planning her revenge for not-Buffy, who turned out to be real Buffy. So, her turning Slayer 'again' is not anything substantial. The First talks to her - therefore she is still the Slayer. Since Nikki was the Slayer and mother. But I think this makes visiting Robin ( by the way - where is he? In Cleveland still?) in the next issue more plausible.

And the blue feathered wings on that green t-shirt don't look like they belong on a fairy...
I think that was authentically the First Slayer. Remember, "no friends, just kill". Sinaya is really not a big fan of Buffy's way of doing things... jealous, really. It couldn't be more on the nose than the fact that she punches Buffy in the stomach. She resents Buffy having the things in life that she never could, that was clear in "Restless".
Hoooooly shiiiiiiiiiiit. But not that surprised really.
There is a panel where Buffy punches the 'First' and she turns into fairy under that punch. and then confesses she was the one riding the Slayer dream. So, I assume the dream was actual Slayer dream , but altered by Tink's presence . The 'you are no Slayer' line appears to be Tink's and is in congruence with her later confession that she though Buffy was posing as Buffy, whilst in reality Tink knew one of Buffy's doubles. Later we see the First conversing with Buffy in her 'Time of your Life' outfit - meaning the dreamscape timeline is not linear? I think the final panels are real First, but in the beginning Tink alterates the dream.

[ edited by dorotea on 2012-01-11 19:53 ]
I hope some constructive criticism of the comic is allowed?

As Caroline described above it's the posters who pop into every comic thread to express their disdain for the comics that are the problem. Constructive criticism about a specific issue or storyline is fine, as long as it's not part of that kind of ongoing pattern. It's been drowning out the constructive criticism along with everything else.

We've added wording to explain this in the site rules.

And now back to the discussion. Any other questions, use email please.
Was Mutant Enemy named from the lyrics from the Yes song?

Technically, I believe it was named for Joss' typewriter. But then since the typewriter would have had to have come from the Yes song, technically yes.
Here's my summary and review if anyone wants yet another of those. I really liked this issue - a lot of it gets lost under the (admittedly pressing) questions of paternity and OMGWTFness, but it's well-written, beautifully drawn, and oddly touching in a number of different ways.
This issue shows how alone Buffy is, how much she misses her friends, how much she misses the old gang. It's clearly depicted throughout the story:

1 ) Buffy misses Xander and Dawn: Buffy dreaming about fighting zompires with Xander and Dawn shows a desire to have them back in the fight. It also shows Xander and Dawn visiting Buffy, which is also something that probably doesn't happen so frequently lately. The way the first panel is drawn reminded me of S7 when the Scooby gang used to be Buffy, Xander and Dawn.

2 ) Buffy misses Giles: She literally thinks this as she opens up a large book and starts researching alone. Research isn't her strongest point, while others researched, she used to go and fetch some donuts. Giles was good at this. It used to be his thing.

3 ) Buffy misses Willow: This time she said this to Willow herself. She misses the way they'd sit together in Buffy's room and just hang out. They haven't been doing this for a long time.

More thoughts about the issue:

- I like Moline's Willow. She's so grown up and beautiful. I think this new haircut compliments her. His S8 Willow wasn't as good IMO.

- Seems that it took Anaheed and Tumble days before they talked to Buffy about what they found out. They'd taken their time to discuss this and eventually make a decision. It also looks like Anaheed is quite scared of her: she's either hiding in her room or standing way behind Tumble. Kinda sucks that they seemed to have decided to kick her out, but it's very understandable.

- The Buffy/Willow scenes were just perfect! I'm so glad they've worked things out.

- I liked the mention of the underground Buffy double.

- I also liked the mention of Kennedy. I'd love to see the other slayers again in the Buffy section of S9. According to Scott, Satsu and the others may appear in #11.

- "You're not the slayer." Does Severin touching Buffy in #4 have something to do with it? She's pregnant, she's not the slayer, she's not the chosen one, perfect timing to retire and live a normal life. She finally got her wish.
The one thing that puzzled me about the issue was the brief inclusion of a second Buffy standing with the First Slayer in the dream, one dressed as Buffy was dressed in the "Time of Your Life" arc. This seems incredible significant, but it isn't expanded upon or noted in the narrative at all.

Stuff like this really frustrates me with the comics. Is this a narrative strand that will be explained eventually (perhaps Willow will relive the other part of this dream down the line?) Or will something seemingly significant like this just be left to lie.

I really hope Willow revists the dream, because "Time of Your Life" Buffy was incredible significant to her...seeing as she killed her.

[ edited by basuraboi3 on 2012-01-11 21:11 ]
Out of curiosity, why is that something that frustrates you with the comics? If they left the same dangling-for-now thread in TV episode would it be okay?
Thanks, B!x.

So far as we know about the only pregnant slayer before, there was nothing unusual about her pregnancy, and that is how we now have a Principal Wood. Now, I am assuming that Nikki Wood had sex with a normal human male. And Buffy, so far as the tale tells us, did not. Have sex with a normal male, that is. I have to believe that Joss is aware of the problems both the cosmic sex and this pregnancy create for the mythos, so I am hoping that in the end it both makes sense and is emotionally resonant. [ETA: We have, I should note, also seen magical pregnancies before, s this cannot as yet be ruled out.]

But I do worry that we are seeing a diminution of metaphor and "bring your own subtext." Most of this seems only "textual," if you will. It is all story, and little subtext, so really a single main reading emerges. Now, this is only a beginning, so this could change. And truthfully, I do think the idea of a pregnant Buffy will create significant press- this is, normally, just another life stage, and as Buffy ages she ought to pass through normal (well, as much as possible) life stages. Here is but another. As is disability for some...

[ edited by Dana5140 on 2012-01-11 21:20 ]
They do this in the comics all the time and I think the reason it happens is because, while the TV seasons wrap in under a year, the comic "season" goes on for several years and sometimes threads are forgotten or minimized.

I can think of so many threads in season 8 that seems so integral but now they are seemingly minimized and ignored.

- The "save the prince" line, what was that?
- Twilight's line, "My first gift will be my last," seems to indicate something cryptic but important, at the end of the season it's marginalized and forgotten.
- During the Faith arc, Twilight trying to separate Faith and Giles from Buffy for some ultimate purpose but then finding them reconciling like it was no big deal in the "Retreat" arc
- The whole "betrayal" storyline, which seemed to clearly indicate a person but eventually became muddled into a self-betrayal. It seemed almost certain to be one of Buffy's friend's betraying her, mostly because of Twilight's henchwoman's line at the end of the Faith arc alluding to "our man on the inside."

I know it's just my opinion, but it seems to be a lot easier for these narrative threads to be dropped and forgotten because the writing is not as tightly controlled and the story tends to expand so far that reining it in is close to impossible.

...that being said, I actually really enjoy the comics and I'm not just hopping on the thread to complain. I made a criticism, someone asked me to expand upon it.
I'm a little lost on how Buffy getting pregnant without having made a specific choice to become a parent is degrading. No one's life, including Buffy's, is solely about making one's way based entirely on conscious, deliberate choices. Otherwise strong, smart, and self-aware people have gotten pregnant without intending to do so. It didn't make them somehow generally less strong, smart, or self-aware. Shit happens, sometimes as a result of things you might regret, and you then choose how to respond. What's degrading in that?

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2012-01-11 21:37 ]
would cause stress on the baby so they shouldn't do that :) lol

[ edited by Simon on 2012-01-12 23:17 ]
- The "save the prince" line, what was that?

Foreshadowing Dracula's appearance? The prince of darkness?
Not trying to gang up on anyone, but these are things I also puzzled over as Season 8 wrapped up and I started rereading it.

- The "save the prince" line, what was that?

I took that to mean Angel. Buffy talked him out his plan, ultimately. Robin talked in a somewhat dreamlike set of riddles, from what I remember, so I didn't take it too literally at the time.

- Twilight's line, "My first gift will be my last," seems to indicate something cryptic but important, at the end of the season it's marginalized and forgotten.

I took that to be his way of saying "this is the only time I'm going to give you a break." Very B movie villain of him but he doesn't actually want to kill her there. He's got this elaborate plan pretending it's a big goal of his, though, and he needs to front to maintain it. He's really there just to scare her and plant doubt.

- During the Faith arc, Twilight trying to separate Faith and Giles from Buffy for some ultimate purpose but then finding them reconciling like it was no big deal in the "Retreat" arc

I think that transition definitely could have been handled better but it doesn't seem like a loose end to me. I don't think everyone was completely reconciled at the end, either. I think some hurt feelings were/are still complicating things. But in the middle of a huge fight, they can't exactly keep hashing it out. Especially not characters with so much history of other bad feelings between them. It just becomes the latest emotional thing to go in the "later or maybe never" pile. Nothing unites like a common enemy trying on the doorstep and about the raze it, anyway.

But I agree with the sentiment that that was a key emotional point that was not resolved with the deftness I was expecting.

- The whole "betrayal" storyline, which seemed to clearly indicate a person but eventually became muddled into a self-betrayal. It seemed almost certain to be one of Buffy's friend's betraying her, mostly because of Twilight's henchwoman's line at the end of the Faith arc alluding to "our man on the inside."

I wasn't happy with that resolution either. The man on the inside was Riley though, that did get revealed later on. But yeah, I found the self-betrayal point to be disappointing.
Who said degrading, b!x? I am not sure if you were referring to my post, and reading above mine I cannot find a reference calling it "degrading." I just said it was problematic- but you might not have been referring to me.
It happened up thread. But really, let's not open that particular can of worms again. I think it'll just lead to people winding each other up again.
About the,"save the prince" line.I could of sworn that Scott Allie said in a Slayalive chat that this has been moved to season 9 and he won't answer it because it's still in play.I could be wrong and mis-remembering though.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2012-01-11 22:43 ]
I thought it pretty clear at the time and ever since that "my first gift will be my last" referred to the conversation they were having right then -- standard villain bravado for "my not killing you right now is the last nice thing I plan on doing for you".
About the,"save the prince" line.I could of sworn that Scott Allie said in a Slayalive chat that this has been moved to season 9

oooo really?
About saving the Prince line - as far as I remember ( and I might misremember) SA was very exasperated at some point with all the questions and said basically something like if you have not figured it out yet then maybe you will in S9.

Myself I base my assumption on another clothes set from 35 - Angel wearing that Disney blue 'princely' uniform with epaulettes and Buffy wearing the mourning robes ( that turned out to be about Giles). Plus turning briefly into a frog etc.

[ edited by dorotea on 2012-01-11 23:04 ]
Sunfire,I found this so far.From the Slayalive Q/A for Buffy S8 # 40 one year ago.

6. Bamph: So who was the Prince?

Scott: Sorry, next!

Notice he refuses to answer that after even season 8 is over.

But I could of sworn he said something more at some point that this factors into season 9.

I did just find this which is pretty funny given today's big reveal.From the Scott Allie Slayalive Q/A for Buffy S8 # 33 in March 2010.

54. lostsoul: Some fans around the internet are thinking that Buffy may get pregnant. Can you please put my worries to rest that she will not?

Scott Allie: What, you mean ever?

I really really would love somehow for spike to be the father, but because of how unlikely that is I'll settle for him being a father figure. Xander and Heinrich are the top two candidates man but who the hell is Heinrich?? I wonder if he's like old or weird or what
The question "who the hell is Heinrich?", is why it's almost certainly Heinrich.
My point is you can probably answer a lot of the loose ends if you fudge things. I get that you might think Riley was the inside man, but technically at that point in the season Buffy had not been in contact with him (it was right after the Tokyo arc that he was introduced, almost a year after the whole "inside man" storyline was revealed).

I bet the tighter scheduling of season 9 will hopefully minimize these dangling threads, at least that's what I hope. We'll see if the appearance of "Time of Your Life" Buffy in the dream has any significance in the rest of the season.

I did actually think of one dangling narrative thread in the series that always bugged me:

Remember when Buffy and Dawn were having a conversation at their house and they were being spied on by Glory's minions? And they basically reveal she's the Key?? How come those minions never spilled the beans to Glory, were they really dumb enough to not be listening at that moment. That always bugged me, I figured it was bad writing or inconsistent editing or a botched fake out, or something
I disagree, Heinrich means absolutely nothing. If Buffy wanted to get pregnant she could have visited a sperm-bank or such. It's totally not uncommon. However one of the most important desire for any new parent is that their child is born healthy. So i refuse to believe that Buffy would be as careless(because of diseases,hiv) to have unprotected sex with an almost complete stranger. She does not know who he is, his whole medical history,etc. And it also does not work as a "father is of no importance"-storyline. Whatever way you cut it, no baby is born of only one parent. It takes two(in case of the awesome movie Twins it takes 6 fathers and 1 mother).

I don't think it's Angel because well, way to late and silly to be the father. He's got his own issues to deal with and i don't think becoming a father for a second time is one of them.

Riley and Andrew are automatically out. I'm guessing a simple misdirect.

Nor do i think it will be Xander. First that would make Buffy and Xander giant a-holes. And it's not something that i think Dawn and Buffy's relationship could get over. Xander also had his chance last season with Buffy, he flat out rejected her so i find it unlikely that he would 'give in' at a later date when his relationship with Dawn has become deeper and more serious.

That brings us to Spike. Spike has had a lot of foreshadowing for this role. Most simply think a father-figure but i'm not so sure. Being a vampire is of little to no importance, especially this season. It has been stressed multiple times that there are no fixed rules, breaking the seed screwed up everything. We are still discovering the consequences of that. What makes me think that Spike will be the father is that we know he'll be there for Buffy. Even though we had Spike tell us in the previous issue that Buffy needs normal and that's why he keeps himself at a distance. The baby will most likely be normal, then it would make even less sense for Spike to step in and play daddy. Last issue we had Severin a bad guy with unique powers holding and playing with both of Buffy and Spike's life-force. He told us that slayer-power felt different. Last season we had the big thing about the connection between slayers and vampires. And at least with Spike it makes sense to have unprotected sex unlike all of the above and especially Heinrich who is like a complete stranger and has Buffy come out looking less then the sharpest tool in the box.

As for the storyline itself, i do find it interesting if handled correctly. We've known that Buffy has thought about it. I hope the birth isn't sped up and we time-skip until the the little devil(s) is older as they did with Connor. That's one of the strengths of comics over a tv-show. For Buffy it will be a whole new journey, one that will most likely make her feel more closer then ever to her own mother being in the same position and feeling her absence.
If Spike is the father then it will be an even bigger journey for him. Spike would have never had anything more to lose then now. Even with a soul, being accepted by the scoobies, loved by Buffy(?), his connection to humanity remains thin. Having his own child would have the biggest impact on him i think.

[ edited by Vergil on 2012-01-12 01:36 ]
I can easily convince myself (fanwank) that the father is one of at least 4 different people. Can't wait to see that all 4 are wrong. This revelation is fun and certainly moves the story in a great direction. I'm enjoying the ride.
Still baffled at the idea that Buffy would never have been careless. Lots of people are careless in exactly that way in exactly this part of their lives.

Meanwhile, I am also in the camp that would prefer there be no mystical claptrap this time. We've had enough of those pregnancies in the Buffyverse, as far as I'm concerned. I'd really like to see a genre story deal with a completely non-genre pregnancy.
I'm with b!x. Oddly enough! :-)
Loved the issue, hate the pregnancy. Ugh. I actually hate this so much that I feel kind of depressed about it. I haven't always liked what they've done with the comics, I've thought some of it was flat out ridiculous, but I've always enjoyed reading them. (And some of the show(s) was totally OTT too.) I'm not going to pretend I won't keep reading them, cause of course I will! But this makes me unhappy. I'll get over it I guess, but I have about zero interest in the idea of watching Buffy struggle with raising a baby. Oh well, not my call.

Onward-- not a big fan of Moline's artwork (I can never tell who's who for one thing), but I liked the issue anyway. More straightforward than I expected, much less cryptic than dreams on the show ever were, which I think is too bad, but at least it moves things forward; the crypticness on the show sometimes took years to be fully realised, which in comics time would be decades, so that's for sure impractical.

Moscow Watcher said;
"The whole issue 1 (penned by Joss) is a set-up for "who's the daddy" story. We're presented with six or seven candidates for paternity to make the audience wonder who of them slept with Buffy."

I totally agree. My desire to find out more about this mystery neighbor, and all that, is the only thing keeping me excited about next month's comic rather than just apprehensive.
I'm sorry, the basic principles of empirical reasoning rule out Spike and Angel before anybody else. All else being equal, relying only on what is known and not on what is being made up to suit the mood, they are incapable of impregnating her. They're out. I just don't follow how "because they'd be a-holes if they had sex" is a higher priority than "impotent" on a list of reasons to eliminate theories of who the baby's father is.

We're going to find out it's this Heinrich or we just won't find out, because as Maggie has stated and I thought seemed pretty clear, the story is about Buffy becoming a mother, not about anyone becoming a father.
Yet all we can talk about is "who is the father?" which tells me that is (at least in part) what the story will become until we get an answer. Also, empirical reasoning? Really? Slayers, vampires,centaurs, giants, time travel, fairies, siphons, witches, space frakking (which I enjoyed :p) and ummm... empirical reasoning. Ok.:)
Hmm. I still don't know how I feel about this issue. I plan to reread it and think about it a bit more in a few days when I'm less busy. However, my gut reaction was dislike. At the same time, that has been my gut reaction to a lot of storylines that I ended up loving, so we shall see.

My biggest complaint about the issue is Moline though. Don't get me wrong, Karl Moline is a fantastic artist and was the perfect choice for Fray. But I just don't care for his interpretations of these characters, especially Buffy. I've come to a place where I am used to Jeanty's Buffy as being the Buffy I know and love. So the final reveal of Moline's Buffy with the pregnancy test lost some of its weight for me because it didn't feel like Buffy to me, so I felt more removed from the story than usual. Does that make sense?
I'm the father, but I don't want to talk about it.
Well, Angel was not Angel when he was Twilight...
Ok, so when it says spoiler, that means for anything? Cause I just thought it meant for this issue. So there's no place on .com to discuss the current issue without getting massively spoiled for future issues, like I just did? That's disappointing.
"Does that make sense?" Yes it does. Agreed. There are actually things I like about Moline's artwork, but I don't like him drawing these characters.

I'm sorry but I can't not say this, even though it's about stuff said waaay up- thread-- do people seriously not understand how consent issues of having sex with someone blacked out drunk are seriously compromised and problematic? I find that very disturbing.
If there was a spoiler for future issues it sailed right over my head. But I'm kinda slow that way.
Angel sure, because he's not part of the story now. Spike however has got every chance to be the father. It is a higher priority because it goes against everything the characters stand for. Maybe you can see Buffy and Xander doing that but i certainly can't. They are better then that. It is the same thing that we saw with Angel's cursed soul and Spike's subsequent getting a curse-less soul. Before that event everyone was certain that Angel's way/method of having/getting a soul was the only way. It was an unwritten rule of the verse, surprise surprise it was obliterated post season 6.

It is definitely not just about Buffy becoming a mother. Even now people are talking about who the father is. And DH made sure that it has been an ongoing mystery since issue 1. I'm pretty sure Buffy knows who the father is, the audience was left out in the dark on purpose which again gives the subject(father) importance. If it is revealed that no-name,no-importance Heinrich is the father well that would just plain suck from a storytelling point of view.
And if there was a father and the baby wasn't born through midiclorians then that baby will just as much be part of Buffy as it is part of father.
Technically, we don't actually know what the consent issues were until/if we know who the father is and what happened. But it's also not cut-and-dried. For the sake of argument, if two completely drunk and judgment-compromised people have sex, it's not as if one of them is victim and one is victimizer. On the consent issue, people seem to be presuming that only Buffy was drunk (and that's still with many of us presuming that she had drunk sex at all), while the man was sober and taking advantage. Sometimes two drunk people do stupid things.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2012-01-12 02:53 ]
I really hope it is fairy dust, because either of the other main possibilities discussed (knocked up while frakking in a drunken haze, or knocked up while frakking in a Twilight haze) are simply too dispiriting for the Buffy I love.

[ edited by Simon on 2012-01-12 23:17 ]
Best issue of the season, I think. Also, it was the most show-like issue of either season. I love that. A return to the show's focus on the core characters and their emotional journeys. I hope they stick to this slower, character-driven pace rather than getting caught up in just having a bunch of stuff happen.
Unbelievable. Well, as I expected some months ago, all I can listen right now is Kurt Cobain's/Nirvana's/Fecal Matter's song, "Buffy's Pregnant".
"My first gift will be my last."

Didn't Lothos say something very similar to this to Buffy right before she staked Pee Wee Herman?
Buffy did not seem totally freaked out about this pregnancy - if it were mystical in nature - don't you think that she would have been in a very different kind of mind set? She would be gathering the troops and trying to find out the nature of this pregnancy not saying that she could learn how to live with it as she is no longer a girl as per the description of the fairy. She already knew before the dreamscape sequence that she was pregnant if you go by the clothing she wears in the scene with Anaheed and Tumble. Tumble could also be a potential father.

[ edited by nmcil on 2012-01-12 04:15 ]
Okee-doke, I'm on board. I'll be 100% honest, I haven't been riding the fandom bus hard since the end of Astonishing X-Men and I requested my stop at the end of Dr. Horrible. I can't get enough of the Joss speak, though, so I kept up with everything, just quit with the flag waving.

I started this season with a heavy dose of snark, thinking "Is season 9 the new season 6?" (yes, yes, moan moan moan) In any case, the slayer dreams certainly perked my ears up. It's the little things, sometimes, but this one felt right. Really right. So I'm on board. I'll be good. Keep it coming.
Got my issue and enjoyed most of it for obvious reasons. First and foremost...Scooby dynamic is at least recognized. Did anyone maintain a dry eye when Buffy admits to missing Giles? To REALLY missing Giles? I miss him too. *sob*

The Buffy and Willow moments actually managed to touch my heart, which was surprising for me as anything Willow hasn't really hit me in that spot for a LONG time. I actually found myself recognizing and happy to see this side of Willow back. Kudos to the writers for this moment.

I hate to say it but I knew something was off with the first panels as we see not only Xander but Dawn actually stick around to help Buffy out. It had to be a dream and it was. That in itself is pretty sad but I am withholding further judgement on that topic for a later date. After all, we did get some pretty sweet B/W, I remain hopeful.

Nice to see the First Slayer again, even if she has always come across as somewhat psychotic. I like the return of oldies but goodies into the story, which I know some will disagree with but I can't help it. I Like what I like.

Typical to see Buffy's new pals trying to bail on her, which is just sad, sad, and more levels of sad, imo. Some things really don't ever change but like I said, I am still holding onto hope that the Scoobies come riding to the rescue in the near future. Might not be one big happy family ever again but whose really is? My mind goes back to Tara and "Family" and the awesome dynamic in place at that time.

Finally, the reveal at the end wasn't surprising as we have been speculating about this for quite a while now. Buffy is pregnant. I stand by my earlier predictions concerning a lasting pregnancy storyline. The father is Angel and this pregnancy is a result of the get out jail free sex they had last season. Timing is right, as morning sickness doesn't always occur for months and it has been months. Roughly 3-4.

Timing does not match up for any other scenerio that we have been given as morning sickness would not occur that soon after the hinted at "did she didn't she" morning after party scene.

It is a possibility that we don't know the father yet but honestly, I can not imagine Joss giving Buffy a child in this canon based verse that doesn't belong to Angel. Given the amount of attention the B/A sex was given last season, given the media and some fans inability to move past this one relationship? Nope, I don't see it. Time will tell.

All in all this issue did manage to raise my interest in this side of the comics and at this moment, interest is pretty equally matched between Buffy and Angel. Honestly speaking, that is one heck of an accomplishment.
The audience focusing on who the father is doesn't mean that's what the story is going to be about -- it just means the audience might be adrift and disengaged from said story, which frankly happens more often in the Buffyverse all the time, and usually for reasons relating to who Buffy might or might not have or want to sleep with.

Menome, Lothos (in the movie anyway) referred to death at Buffy's hand as his last gift to Amilyn.
I am beyond excited for this storyline. I never thought that it was ill conceived. Pregnancy is something that happens, and I'd love to see how she deals with this. For me, Buffy was always a fantasy reflecting reality. Now there's a little more reality than usual, but I can dig it. I really don't care who the father is either, it really isn't about that in my opinion.

I always loved Buffy's relationship with Dawn, and how in the end she put her a little bit higher on her prority list than everyone else. But now with her own child in the mix, priorities are going to majorly shift.

And I'd love for her to somehow be the Mother of Harth and Fray, but that's highly unlikely. I can still dream though.
Melaka and Harth looked pretty limber and fresh-faced for 200+ years old... and the younger siblings to Erin :)

Now, the idea that they might be her descendants is charming, although since we may not even be on that timeline anymore anyway, who knows?
I think Rhaegar Targaryen is the father.
Oh my god the key duh. So Buffy is gonna use dawn to unlock the pathways between worlds just like glory wanted to. or something I don't know but dawns the key here. Maybe this season will end with Buffy log through the portal with her "mystical allies" as shown in Fray
"Unbelievable. Well, as I expected some months ago, all I can listen right now is Kurt Cobain's/Nirvana's/Fecal Matter's song, "Buffy's Pregnant".
SinceWeChangedTheWorld | January 12, 03:41 C"

Where's you get a copy of that??
I loved the issue and the dynamic between Willow/Buffy.

I thought Willow was especially pretty for number 5 (thanks to Moline) and I like how Willow was the one to take the journey to find a way to return magic.

As for the pregnancy, I thought they wouldn't do it, I was under a false sense of security, but then it hit us. I don't know how I feel about it. I'm kind of excited but also full of dread.

Otherwise I'm pretty much on the same wavelength about this as Vergil.
I think Angel will turn out to be the father. Twilight intended for Angel and Buffy to basically be the Adam and Eve of that new world, and for that to work, he'd have to be able to get her pregnant. Also, if Angel is the father, then this kid is the offspring of god-mode Buffy and Angel, so not very likely a normal human child. Who knows what effects that would have on the pregnancy?
Outside bet - it's a mystical birth and it's the natural rival to the universe that Buffy and Angel conceived.
Leaving aside what amount to a very, very non-textual leap about what Twilight intended for itself re: biological reproduction (and if you really read through 8.35, there's not really anything to support the idea that Twilight meant for them to have children "the old fashioned way"), the bottom line is Buffy still had sex with Angel a solid six months before (realistic post-8.39 minimum time to get settled in San Francisco is a few weeks, 4 months on that job, 1 month minimum per Allie between 8.40 and 9.01, and we've got her into the third trimester without having started to show or having any morning sickness. If Twilight really did intend for them to populate the new reality biologically, I doubt it would have wanted Buffy to have a gestation period similar to an elephant's).
@cheryl, Morning sickness can occur quite quickly. I had a very severe and dangerous type with my pregnancy. I was nauseated at about 2 or so weeks and I was hospitalized at 9 weeks. Everyone is ok.

Sorry to restate, but for those of us who have suffered through this, we like to teach people what can really happen.

[ edited by hann23 on 2012-01-12 12:45 ]
I also think it is Angel, and I am not a Buffy shipper. I just think he is the only who could create the resonance necessary to make this mythic. But I am all of a sudden intrigued by Simon's comment, because it is a logical link to the ongoing storyline; if at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
I hope DH and Whedon will pull it off. Overall, the issue is very good. Moline's art suits better to the storyline about Buffy becoming a mother, because he draws her with more womanly proportions. I wonder is Joss plans to compress the timeline - for example, they make a break after May issue -- and the next, August or September issue will feature Buffy with her already-born baby.

Apparently, the action in #5 takes place the next day after the events of the first arc, including the night of the party when Buffy (apparently) had sex with somebody (in issue 4 Buffy's roomies decide to talk to her about weapons in her room; in issue 5 they try to talk to her). In real life, pregnancy tests don't work so quickly. Are we supposed to suspend our disbelief and assume that Buffy was knocked up during the party? (Scott Allie said in Q&As that the party will have consequences, but, as usual, his answer is open to interpretation.)

If so, we have at least seven suspects: Xander and Riley (she spent some time with both of them); Buffy's boss; her mysterious neighbor, Heinrich whom nobody saw and who sent her flowers the next day; Andrew; Spike. And, let's not forget about the elephant - I mean Angel. He already has two children - Connor and Kitty Twilight. Three's a charm.

In any case, I'm sure that Joss' choice of father was based on the principle of maximum pain for Buffy. And if the previously established rules stood in the way of the story he wanted to tell, he bended or rewrote them.

So far, the most likely candidates are Angel and Heinrich. Angel, because it would be very painful for everybody involved for obvious reasons; Heinrich - because he's a dark horse and Joss can go in any direction (Heinrich could be a demon; an anti-slayer activist with an agenda; a time-traveller from the future who is a recluse to avoid changing the timeline) to bring on the angst.

Then again, Heinrich-as-a-father can be The Immortal of season 9 - just a faceless plot device to keep the shipping status quo intact.

Another question is where do we go from here. Given the history of pregnancies in Jossverse, I expect all kinds of horrors. Buffy's enemies will try to kill/abduct/sire her baby. Or Buffy finds out that her baby is evil. Or that she has to sacrifice her baby to restore magic. Or she will have twins Melaca and Harth whom time-travelling Heinrich takes to the future in a mission to save humanity.

Or something even more heartbreaking will happen. Joss has a carte-blanche here. "You must save the prince". "Unlock the key [to bring magic back]". "You're not the slayer". There is a lot of random clues that point to global importance of Buffy's pregnancy.

I looked through Google links for "female monomyth" + "pregnancy" and couldn't find anything interesting. Apparently, it's pretty uncharted territory (except Xena, of course).

Looks like the season will be quite a ride, after all. Time to buckle up.
Angel doesn't make it mythic, because while reaching for mythic, it would be stumbling and catching only continuity errors and incoherent babble to explain why Buffy gets to pregnant twice the usual length. The phlebotinum catastrophe would absolutely smoke any "mythic" quality to Angel being the father. Which, by the way, it doesn't have in the first place. I would have thought Season 8 would have convinced Joss at this point that not enough people are hitched to that wagon for it to have that kind of all important resonance.

I mean, let's all step back and take a look at just how far into complete insanity this has gotten if we consider even somewhat likely, let alone most likely, Angel -- a vampire -- having gotten Buffy pregnant for a pregnancy that will apparently last something like a year, year and a half.
Well, at a DragonCon Q&A, Georges said that this life-changing event in Buffy's life had something to do with the party. Angel was not at the party. So cross him off the possible baby-daddy list.

I think it'll be the mysterious neighbor. Or maybe we'll think it is, until it's revealed that Spike's the guy. Either way, Spike's gonna be the daddy figure. And I'm happy with that. :)
God I hope Angel isn't the Dad...really really hope.
I'm still not ruling Xander out.
Either way, Spike's gonna be the daddy figure

His relationship with Dawn was one of the best things in the later seasons so he would make a good (surrogate) dad. It'll make an interesting contrast with Angel and Connor. His opportunity to spend time with his son was snatched away from him, Spike on the other hand will get to see Buffy's son grow.
The almost total certainty with which Spike is going to be de facto father figure/boyfriend of single mother is actually one of the reasons while I'll be just as happy for Heinrich/anonybaby. Joss gets to have all the fun of a Spuffy nuclear unit with none of the lorefrak of making him the biological father, and the rest of us don't have to facepalm through some horrible attempt to explain why Spike is the father figure rather than the actual father (in the case of an established character like Riley or Xander).
If the real father is out of the picture, then no need for face palming methinks.
If he is, yes. Which is why out of the characters Buffy already had some sort of romantic history with before Season 9, Riley would make the most sense, because odds are they could just establish that they made a mistake, they care about each other, he's going to be a better father than Poor Retconned Hank was made into, but that he's going back to his life.

It's really in the event where Xander would be the biological father that this would cause some genuine annoyance to me. As I said elsewhere -- "What I don't buy is Buffy and Xander, standing there in the already jackhammered debris of their respective relationships with Dawn, uncommitted to others, one as recently as 6 months before having confessed her love for the other, and having conceived a child, not at least... y'know, going out for dinner? Giving it a look-see? And since there's no real doubt that they have no intention whatsoever of doing that, that's actually why I'd prefer he not be the father."

Now, I don't say that as a 'shipper -- I've long since renounced any genuine 'shipping interest in them. Just out of respect for the characters, particularly Xander's character, though, I don't want to know that he and Buffy had a child and they concocted some reason why these years long friends who were obviously into each other enough to have sex and conceived a child wouldn't try a little of the "Knocked Up" plot out just so that, instead, Joss could tell a story about a different nuclear unit raising Buffy's child. That's why just not using an established character in that role makes the most sense -- then Joss can have anyone involved in Buffy's life, and her child's, without it raising serious characterization and logic issues for other interested characters.
Not to rain on any parades here, but at the pace the comic goes for anybody to play suro-dad it has to be in another 10 years of real time. As far as I remember Allie said that Spike *might* or might not be in next Buffy book Season 10. So, for now he will have to play dad to the featus. And it is likely going to be a girl .:) Imagine then Spike changing diapers for 10+ issues and how exiting a comic that would be!
Why is it "likely" to be a girl? "Likely" isn't a word I associate with 50/50 odds.

As for diaper changing -- it either works for people or it doesn't. I don't seriously think that anybody would be VERY interested in X changing diapers but bored to tears by J changing diapers.
Except Simon, Connor truly was Angel's son. There is just no way that Spike would even come close to understanding how Angel felt with Connor by playing surrogate dad to Buffy's child.
And it really doesn't fall in line with the previous issue on Spike's current emotional state in relation to Buffy. Buffy having a baby wouldn't change anything, it would even make it more certain that Spike would need to keep his distance and that Buffy needs normal.
I agree the Dawn/Spike relationship was nice but it really didn't go that deep. And he was more a big brother type. To Connor he was a cool uncle type.

I really do hope that Spike is the father, not because of any shipping(couldn't care less about that) but because it would be the next evolution for the Spike character. I feel that ever since the end of season 7 Spike has been stuck in limbo.
He continues to fight the good fight but there is no real purpose to him. He is the most human vampire there is but he continues to not be a part of humanity.

If Spike was the bio father then there would still be no need for face palming(especially after season 8), only a select few would really have a problem with it.
I'm curious on how many hints we've gotten that Spike will be a daddy figure? Perhaps things got mixed up with when it was said that Spike would be Buffy's "rock" this season. I could see Spike taking over patrolling for Buffy which seems like something he would do to support Buffy with her pregnancy but then that wouldn't mash with the domestic spuffy cover we got which again alludes to a emotional closeness.
If Spike isn't the father then i really hope he doesn't proclaim to be Buffy's white knight(will play daddy to the unborn spawn and is already signing up to change diapers) when she tells him that she's pregnant. If will feel like a complete 180 after issue 4.
The panel in the Spike mini of him singing lullabies was the first thing that made me think Buffy might have a baby this season. Georges, whose comments about the effects of the party were the ones that shifted me into thinking this was a likely plot line, has also said we'll be getting a big Spuffy scene in the next issue of him being Mr. supportive. The covers for 6 and 7 are both Spuffy. So, yeah, Spike's being set up as the father figure. Like King, I don't think he's the biological father.

I have to admit I'm surprised that the thought that Angel might be the father is as widespread as it is. Leaving aside the elephant-length pregnancy that would be involved, it flies in the face of the repeated and clear pronouncements that story-line wise the two books are going to be separate. We've repeatedly been told that Buffy's book won't be dealing much with season 8 issues, and that would obviously be a lie if Buffy spends season 9 giving birth to Angel's baby.

I sincerely hope that #6 settles the question about who's the daddy, so that we can focus on the many very interesting issues raised by Buffy's potential motherhood.

Back to other topics raised by this issue. When is the Willow mini scheduled to come out? I don't recall any announcement. Also, when was the first cross-over to A&F expected? I'm wondering how long Willow will just be gone. It was kind of cool that she got to be the one to play King Arthur to the scythe. I look forward to the story about how/why she's the significant figure for that. Presumably it relates to her role in Chosen, raising the question of what relationship there might be between Willow and the slayers created by that spell.

Finally, does anyone have insight into why ToYL Buffy showed up in Buffy's dream?
My point though is that embracing advantages of fatherhood cometh after enduring pregnant female temper, then a few years of diapers. So, either the timeliness would have to be meddled with and this instantly dismisses 'real life type' story and makes mystical element a nessessity, or there won't be any play daddy yet this season. And the future is fuzzy yet. As for the girl - call it a hunch. Joss likes to give characters RL traits.

[ edited by dorotea on 2012-01-12 17:11 ]
So Buffy would have a daughter because Joss does? I guess I could buy that. But I tend to doubt that's the basis, all the same. I saw another post somewhere suggesting Buffy should have a daughter for its "symmetry" with Angel and Connor, but my reaction to that was and is "so what?"

I have picked my baby names, btw (all using Buffy's last name, which in turn is made most convenient by Heinrich/anonybaby)

For a boy, Giles Merrick Summers.

For a girl, either Elizabeth Joyce Summers*, Veronica Joyce Summers**, or Katherine Joyce Summers*

*Buffy's own non-canonical other name.
** Veronica Mars -- Buffy's a fan, and in a metatextual sense, she kinda is Buffy's daughter.
*** Kitty Pryde's first name; the inspiration for Buffy.
I got my copy, and I liked it a lot. Especially the roommate drama taking a backseat while she takes the test. That's very Buffy. I also dig Willow taking the scythe to go try to restore magic. She was acting way too Muggle in the first arc. Hello Willow, there you are.
I liked it too, I think it might been the best issue since The Chain. As as for Spike, I realise that most people's views about him are set in stone but I think the writer's have been building him up for something big every since his dramatic entrance in the space ship. I pondered upon whether he and Buffy would get together but it's more likely the role of fatherhood will be cast upon him.
The role of fatherhood for him has been a fait accompli since Buffy's pregnancy became more apparent, ever since he was being so fatherly to other people's (bug) kids. It just won't be biological fatherhood, because they can tell the Spike-is-daddy story without having the lorefrak. The Espenson book was foreshadowing -- but those weren't his biological children either.
Maggie said:
When is the Willow mini scheduled to come out? I don't recall any announcement.

The earliest it could come out would seem to be in May. Dark Horse have released solicitations up till April without any "Willow" mini-series or whatever they are planning. It seems a pretty long gap though. Can comics come out without solicitations? Or can last minute solicits occur? Because 4 months seems a long time without any Willow. At least for me.

Just re-read the issue and liked it better this time around. Still not enthused about the writing in general, but it probably is the best written one so far this season. I liked how it was pretty much a Buffy and Willow focused issue, instead of all about random new character #845.

My guess for the father: Xander. Maximum amount of pain and angst. But it will probably end up being the neighbour guy or something.
Bug ship is still around. And if Spike will have to stick with the mundane it will have to go. Seems like such a nice toy... Whatever the build up was I don't see Spikey playing perfect vampire dad for 2 seasons. There is Illyria coming too. And don't forget the whole Nikki Wood and who killed that Slayer and mother. There has to be an angle here too. Spike has funny history with moms, and it is perfectly exploitable for drama. This is still Whedon's story. I don't see it turning into family show any time soon.

[ edited by Simon on 2012-01-12 23:17 ]
Loved this. Especially the last panel. I love you, growing up Buffy.
Dorotea, "Buffy" has always been a show about family. They even had an episode where they spelled that out, and helpfully called it "Family" :)

[ edited by Simon on 2012-01-12 23:18 ]
Haven't read this issue (or most of the discussion, for spoilers' sake), but I just wanna thank Simon for the QL shout-out. <3
Really enjoyed this issue since I had successfully avoided all spoilers. But I'm with karosurly -didn't appreciate getting spoiled for other stuff.
I was thinking as I read it that I wish Moline did all the issues. I haven't always liked his art but I thought this was right on. Funny how opinions vary.
I like the idea of Spike as the stand-in Dad and while I don't care who the bioDad is, it has been a long time since Buffy had a steady fella. Having a baby and the baby's father around would be interesting to watch.
So obviously TOYL is still a factor, what we know is that magic wasn't restored until fray and Harth were born, and when Buffy killed dark willow she said its "who kills you that matters" which makes me curious about if she was trying to prepare Buffy to kill someone, hopefully to avoid frays timeline (which could mean killing willow? Or maybe the baby?) but it definatley will have a cOnnection at some point. I don't see many talk about this, any thoughts??
I had always read that as Willow saying she wanted Buffy to be the one who killed her.
I'm just glad ToYL is still in play and that my assumptions in regards to Willow (The new seed, or something akin) look like they'll come to fruition. I'm highly excited to see where Willow's story is going here.
Well, just read the issue and can't say I'm surprised about Buffy being pregnant, as this is a prediction I made waaay back toward the end of season 8. I really liked the scenes showing Buffy thinking about/missing Giles. Very touching and nice to see from our girl. I imagine it's not a stretch to say that Giles is in Buffy's headspace daily (something she and Angel have in common). I am going to reserve other thoughts until I have a chance to read the issue again, but overall I'll say I really enjoyed it.
I think that willow was being cryptic about TOYL because it gIves them room to work on that storyline still, or work its way up to it. But if frays future happens I can't help but thInk the 'ending' of Buffy wot be very happy :/

Except Simon, Connor truly was Angel's son. There is just no way that Spike would even come close to understanding how Angel felt with Connor by playing surrogate dad to Buffy's child.

I think that all the many fathers in the world whose children came into their lives via adoption would disagree with you completely, to put it mildly (very, very, very mildly).

I want to join Maggie in expressing my hope that the "Who's the Daddy?" question won't be dragged out for long, though I suspect that it will. I'm much more interested in exploring Buffy's feelings about her potential motherhood than I am in that sort of thing.
I'm talking about a fictional world, not the real world. And yes in that fictional world i don't for a second believe that Spike hearing Buffy is pregnant would have the same impact as Angel did when he knew he was going to be a father.

And given what we know of the character i think it's even less likely that he would all of the sudden want to play daddy.
@Vergil, Learning about a baby being your's is completely different then learning about a friend being pregnant. Spike would not feel what Angel did when learning about Buffy's baby if it isn't his.

Once the baby is born and if Spike were to serve as father then he would develop a profound connection to the child. His relationship would be just as loving, painful and strong as any bioligical parent with their biological child.

I feel very strongly about this because I have both bio and adopted children.

Now whether or not Spike would step up to the plate to serve as a father is an interesting question. I think that he would given his life story thus far.

Illyria would really complicate things. I could get into that story.

[ edited by hann23 on 2012-01-12 22:28 ]
Agreed, hann23. That's exactly what I was getting at. (And I agree--I think it would be entirely in character for Spike to take another member of the Summers clan in his heart. He's a nurturer at heart, whether he'd admit to that or not.)
Hann, Buffy won't need to have already given birth for Spike to form that bond. At no point is it necessary for them to do a double-half twist through the mythology to make Spike the biological father for him to have a father's love for the child. I know that because this is the series in which I first heard the phrase, "a father's love for the child" to describe a man's feelings toward a child he had no part in bringing into the world.
By the way, I also got spoiled like karo and Lioness. I deliberately stayed out of the cover topic and thought this was the discussion topic.
@hann23, Not gonna talk about the real world. I made it clear before that i keep it separate.

I already explained why i do not find these situations equal just going by hearing the news of the pregnancy.
But ok lets assume that Spike would become the father figure to the child my first question would be why?
Outside of being the child's actual father i don't think Spike should help parent a child let alone be it's father figure.
Spike is not a fluffy puffy teddybear, he's a vampire with a very powerful, filled with bloodlust demon. Spike himself has made this clear many times before. He resides where it is ugly, dark and dangerous. We heard from Buffy herself last season that she considers Spike to be her dark place. Yeah, that's definitely the kind of endorsement you want from a guy to be your co-parent.
Unless Spike is the bio father i don't see any reason for him being the child's father figure.

@Lirazel, Spike would no doubt love this new child but he would also be realistic about it. The Spike we have now was keeping his distance from Buffy(the slayer=not normal) because he believes that she wants normality.
I believe his resolve would only intensify with a newly born normal innocent child.
That's why i can only see him re-entering and remaining in Buffy's life if the child is his. Being a single mother is hard but it is not impossible. Outside of helping with her slaying duties Spike would remain on the outside.

[ edited by Simon on 2012-01-12 23:18 ]
Yeah we did drop the ball on the spoilers thing, I've gone through various comments and invisiblised them . I'll remind posters, if you want to discuss stuff set after this issue then either invisibilise it out of courtesy for posters who don't want to be spoilered for future events or wait till a relevant thread comes up and talk about it there to your heart's content.

You can find out make your comments invisible in our 'how to' page.
I'm sorry!! Won't happen again
Didn't Scott say somewhere there would be a new love interest this season? And if yes do you think it is just her unborn baby like joss has said her love interest role in the fifth season was filled by dawn
@Vergil, I think that we are just going to disagree on whether Spike would make a decent father figure. I am not going to argue the pros. I have just as many as you do cons. I can email you privately. I don't want this to be a pro/con Spike arguement when Buffy's life is being so changed.

I think that I need to clarify that I believe that if any male in Buffy's life became the father figure to the child, they would have just as an equal a bond with a child that any male biological father character might have with his child. I believe that Whedon would reflect the good, the bad and the ugly in the parental relationship, despite the lack of a biological connection. For example, Giles and Buffy were as close as any Father and Daughter and had equal amounts of pain and love.

While the real world and the fictional world are indeed separate, I believe that the Whedonverse takes our realities and uses fiction to entertain and challenge us about real life emotions.

Maybe, it's why I am feeling this story line so poignantly. It has the potential to really hit home for me, if it's written well.

[ edited by hann23 on 2012-01-13 00:33 ]
@Hann23, fair enough. I actually also believe that Spike would be a decent father figure however that doesn't change that i don't think that Spike would be the first and obvious choice to be the child's father figure. To me it would feel completely out of the blue and wouldn't mash with where he is now in his life.
No need for the list, i'm a longtime Spike fan and have observed on multiple occasions how Spike has that nurturing part of his character. I simply do not see it as a "realistic" development for him now at this moment.

Agreed, sorry if you thought that i was arguing against that, i'm not. What i disagreed with was how Buffy having a child not fathered by Spike automatically means that Spike will become the jump in father figure for no apparent reason what so ever. There would still be a long way ahead for both characters before i think it would be a logical evolution.

That could very well be, i'm personally more interested in the story if it involves both characters. Simply having Buffy as a new mother for a normal child isn't Buffy-esque enough for me. That's why i also hope that Spike is the father. I've seen a lot of people assume that if that turns out true that it will be a jolly easy,happy,domestic time for Spike and Buffy. When nothing could be further from the truth imo. Buffy and Spike are notorious bad communicators. So much angst and drama that could be developed from this.

[ edited by Vergil on 2012-01-13 01:19 ]
@Vergil, I think the comics set Spike up for this role by depicting him as naturally gravitating towards the baby grubbs, and the baby grubbs loving him back. That could have been just an aw shucks moment... but then, it's an aw shucks moment that says that deep down he's got a nurturing heart and paternal instincts.
I really agree with Vergil on his take. I noticed that many days passed in issue 5 and Spike was no where seen or mentioned. It really seems that he isn't a factor in Buffy's life yet, just on the outskirts. Her being pregnant and alone might make Spike assist with Slaying more (maybe patrol around her house) but would probably ultimately drive Spike further away from Buffy since he believes she needs normal. Buffy having a normal baby would confirm this for him and he'd slip away to leave Buffy live her life (maybe so she can meet a new, normal guy so that person could be a father figure to the child). But if the child is actually his...he's going to stick close (though that raises the issue of Buffy and Spike getting together because of obligation rather than affection and what actually happened on that party night).

I just wanted to add that I've recently been thinking about the abortion angle (thanks to the Slayalive forum) and I really, really hope the abortion question is raised. I think this would be an interesting story line to explore and one to really invigorate the reader's minds. Will Buffy keep the child? Maybe she won't. There is still the option that the baby won't be born.

[ edited by Tennyoelf on 2012-01-13 07:25 ]
Perhaps TOYL Buffy showed up in the dream to foreshadow the importance of the Scythe. I may be remembering incorrectly, but did Buffy not kill Willow with the current timeline scythe in TOYL? If so, perhaps doing that is the reason the scythe can be used to bring magic back and perhaps Future Willow, having recognized that, orchestrated the whole plot in order to help Buffy bring magic back?
I think there is roughly a snowball's chance in hell that that's going to be brought up in any detail. If abortion is brought up at all, it will be exactly what happened in Juno. That is for at least two pretty difficult to argue with reasons --

1) The reason for the Juno treatment in that movie was that... the story was about her being pregnant, and having a baby. Giles once said that Buffy is about the now, and history is very much about the "then". Well, Juno was about having a baby and abortion is very much about not having one. If, presumably, Buffy's pregnancy in Season 9 is about her having a baby, the actual decision is a fait accompli -- why bother?

2) Generally speaking, there's nothing "lovely" about the topic in the minds of the general comic book and/or sci-fi/fantasy/adventure/drama/comedy audience. It's a thing, people feel strongly about it, for it, against it, whether it ought to be, or not, the legal choice of whomsoever deems it necessary, but -- at least amongst the American audience, by any studied measure you'd care to look at, it's not considered particularly... I dunno, tasteful? Is that the word? I could care less about having a public policy debate about it; this is about commercialism. Spending a lot of time on an issue that a vast demographic is going to consider -- to some extent or another -- pretty unsavory, when the subject is presumably already a moot discussion before it starts, is probably not going to strengthen the "Buffy" brand very much.
Knuckleball, that's pretty genius.
Actually, Knuckleball, that is about the most freaking awesome prediction I've ever read about these continuations.
I agree, 'lovely' is the wrong word (going to edit my last post). I meant more like interesting/engaging, at least for me, if they brought up the topic.

In regards to your comparison to Juno, I do agree. It doesn't make the greatest sense that they have Buffy pregnant only to get an abortion unless the fact that Buffy gets an abortion carries on with her throughout the season. But yes, it's a very sensitive topic and must be dealt with well.

I just hope Buffy at least thinks about this option.

As for Knuckball's post, I really think that's pretty smart and possible.
Of course the abortion issue is 'unsavory' or whatever, but I would hope that Joss could look past commercialization in this instance and 'branding'. Joss is a rather loudly proclaimed feminist and the option/thought/debate of abortion is one that does come up for women during an unplanned pregnancy. I think he kind of has a responsibility to normalize the issue.
Thanks, Simon.

And if people can't talk about abortion, I wouldn't take it off the Buffy table if it fits the story and the characters. Seeing Buffy think about abortion wouldn't shock me. Seeing her not think about it would.
I completely agree, gossi. I would be shocked and disappointed if the topic of abortion wasn't raised in the circumstances Buffy finds herself.
I disagree profoundly that Joss has political obligations to present Buffy as considering an option that, statistically, it would be completely believable she'd opt to ignore especially in a context where we already know that she wouldn't be making that choice. In fact, shoehorning a public service announcement into a story in which it will ultimately be irrelevant is something I would find condescending.

But that's all somewhat beside the point. What I'd ask all of you is this -- do you think that that moment in 9.05 was designed, that iconic game-changing image of Buffy staring at the pregnancy test, was put there to announce a plot development that she would be going off to "nip in the bud" within a couple issue?

I'm trying to imagine a few other great moments in "Buffy" history in that context. "Checkpoint" -- "Glory isn't a demon, she's a god", DUN! Then Travers shows up by "Crush" to explain they were mistaken, she's a demon. Or, "After Life", Buffy saying "I think I was in heaven"... but then catching up with Spike in "Life Serial" and saying "nah, I just had a weird dream and got confused". See my point? Nothing about that moment makes much sense if the story shifts quickly in a direction that makes it not true, i.e. Buffy wishing it away.
I don't really think Buffy would ever consider abortion. Not seriously. And like KoC is saying, what would be the point?

And, no matter the intent behind it, whenever the subject of abortion is brought up in something it always goes beyond the text and becomes it's own issue. It draws away and distract's from the actual story itself. Always. Neil Gaiman didn't publish a Sandman story once because of it.
Perhaps TOYL Buffy showed up in the dream to foreshadow the importance of the Scythe. I may be remembering incorrectly, but did Buffy not kill Willow with the current timeline scythe in TOYL? If so, perhaps doing that is the reason the scythe can be used to bring magic back and perhaps Future Willow, having recognized that, orchestrated the whole plot in order to help Buffy bring magic back?

Interesting specs. It's very telling that the artist of "Slayer, Interrupted" is Moline, trademark Fray penciller.

We know that in the future magic will start seeping back into the world during Fray times. A coincidence? Maybe. But it's easy for the writers to retcon the situation as "the appearance of Fray and Harth in that world has triggered the return of magic".

We know that Heinrich is a recluse. Why? Could he be a time-traveller afraid to disturb the timeline? Could he be there to abduct Buffy's future twins?
I think as others have pointed out, having Moline draw this comic was almost certainly no coincidence. There is likely a connection between Fray, the "scythe", Willow, and now perhaps even Buffy's pregnancy. When they showed the broken scythe the first time in the issue, it really seemed to be highlighted on the page IMO.

On a side note, has there ever, in any format (comic or show), been confirmation of Buffy knowing about Connor's existence? I seem to recall her having a line about it in Season 8, but am I mistaken?
Finally managed to post my review from my work computer. Blogger was acting up on my Mac.
If you'd like to check it out, you may do so HERE. As per yoosh, thoughts, comments, etc are always appreciated. :)
Perhaps TOYL Buffy showed up because that was the last time Karl Moline drew her, and nothing more--like, when called upon to have two Buffy's (lucid dreaming Buffy and not aware Buffy) he put her in the same outfit as a little call out to himself. I would prefer there's some big meaning to it, but I'm not fully convinced.

I agree that it would be pretty silly to give the pregnancy all this build up if there was even a chance she'd abort-- but I will be very disappointed if she doesn't even consider the possibility.

I would assume Buffy's knowledge of Conner is a given, as we were told her knowledge of Spike being alive was.
@Archon - I don't remember anything about Connor in season 8. Nobody in Buffy's circle knew about his existence (Willow's memories were deleted by Vail's spell).

But in season 9 Spike could tell Buffy about Connor.
I'm going to guess that Angel isn't the father, because Joss said early on there wouldn't be any cross-overs between the two comics. That he wanted them to establish themselves separately before they started intertwining.

That said on the flip side, if Angel was the father, this storyline might be a major reason why Joss wanted both comics under Dark Horse.

Still, I think my first point has more weight and I'm going to say the father is not Angel/Twilight.
I'm so late getting this issue.

I really dislike the pregnancy arc for my own feminist reasons. I'm keeping my fingers crossed the baby won't happen because I couldn't think of anything more dull.

I also think that Buffy is not in the right place to have a baby, she's involved in a physically demanding and damaging line of 'work', considering she's likely to be a single mother she has some really crappy work prospects at the moment which isn't great when you have a child, plus she's about to be kicked out of her flat. If I was in that situation then abortion would be the only thing on my mind.

If they go ahead with the baby I imagine I'll stop reading the comics, which is a real shame because I'm digging a lot of other things about this series, especially Willow's magic quest, the new zompires, Dowling and Eldre Koh, all the seed fallout. I honestly don't see why Joss felt the need to throw pregnancy into the mix.
I'd have been more surprised if we'd gotten to 10 seasons without it coming up. This series has always been about "real life writ large". Well, nothing gets more realistic than the fact of human reproduction being a thing that happens, and that in an a profoundly overwhelming majority of cases, it happens without regard to prior planning or the "rightness" of the time, and that in a similarly profound and overwhelming majority of cases, people just go ahead and roll with the punches as it were.
digupherbones, could you please elaborate on what your own feminist reasons are?
Okay, so I'm like a month behind on my comics reading in general, and just got to this issue. Allow me to say, as others have already said: holy shiiiiiiit. I like this development. I think it's going to go somewhere very interesting.

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