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Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"Define interesting."
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May 03 2012

(SPOILER) Discuss 'The Avengers' - round three. It's a fantastic movie, come chat about it.

Previous discussion threads can be found here and here.

I am so excited to hear from American viewers of the movie.

I'm stymied for seeing it again until payday so look forward to gaining some vicarious thrills from reading all the new comments.

Went for the 2nd time today.It was even better on 2nd viewing:-)
I need to read more takes and comments from my fellow Whedonesquers.

And if someone don't mind please describe the scene we international audience don't get to see.
I lucked out and didn't have to do jury duty so I'm going to try and see a early showing of Avengers tomorrow morning.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2012-05-04 01:12 ]
Love! Really having a hard time processing it all but there is just so much love.
I'm going this weekend. I think I've managed to convince Mr Reddygirl to go with me.
I got my midnight tix, baby!!! I'm going right now!!!
It's terrific.

I think of all the character interaction stuff, my favorite was Stark and Banner finding unexpected common ground - not just in being super-scientists, but in being lonely prickly people.

Of course, the timing on "He's adopted" is perfect.

The Hulk's encounter with Loki is perhaps the closest I've seen to something that works in live-action - *serious* live-action, no less - that also utterly resembles a Chuck Jones cartoon.
Sitting in theater. Starts in three minutes. Yay!
I took tomorrow off to see it. My husband thinks it's crazy. He doesn't understand how someone would take a vacation day to see a movie. He doesn't get it. I may have to divorce him.
That bit towards the end where we saw each team member fighting in turn, Pure magic. That was my favourite moment of the film. I'm still buzzing from seeing it on Wednesday.
I agree Simon. The one thing I really wanted (action wise) was ONE shot going to each hero doing some awesome stuff.... and we got it.
Sitting in the theater, waiting for the midnight showing to start!! So excited!!!
Just got back from the midnight. I loved it. Stark and Banner were the best.
As overly inflated as my expectations were, Joss somehow managed to surpass them. This movie was perfect.

So many of those cheering "moments" that other action movies are lucky to have even one of. Such beautifully drawn characters. Such crackling dialogue. And so much hulk smashing. I'm blown away.
Just got back from the theater. OH. MY. GOSH! I would like to describe this movie as 'perfection.' I laughed more than I think I've ever laughed at an action movie. The moment when Hulk interrupts Loki's little speech by throwing him back and forth like a rag doll might be the funniest thing ever committed to film. Such a glorious cinematic experience. I will most likely see it six times so I will beat my personal previous movie going record of five (Return of the King), because this movie deserves several viewings.

(Also, when you know who Alexis plays before you go, you can see a couple Alexis acting nuances shine through. The way he moves his mouth and head sometimes seems very dark!Wesley. But, again, I was looking for it.)
Can someone please tell me what the hulk said after he thrashed Loki. Everyone was laughing so hard I couldn't hear it.
Just got back. Wow! I'm still taking it all in so my thoughts on it have yet to settle.

@Mossome Definitely! Knowing it was Alexis, I thought I recognized his features. However, I don't know who the guy was. He's credited as The Other but I still don't know who that's supposed to be. It seemed like everyone else in the theater knew because everyone started cheering when he turned around.

Can someone explain who he is?

[ edited by Destructo Girl on 2012-05-04 08:33 ]
@Weklim, I believe Hulk said 'Puny Gods' but I may be wrong, because the laughter drowned it in my viewing, too.
I love the shwarma scene at the end.

Funniest, and BEST, Big Damn Superhero Movie since Oden was a child.

I saw Enver Gjokaj in it, but who, or where, was Alexis Denisoff?

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2012-05-04 08:42 ]

Highlights? Loki, The Hulk and how every character was more fleshed out in this film than their own. Thank you thank you thank you Joss. Made a superhero film with heart, depth and humor <3
I'm still processing the awesomeness of it. Initial thoughts; that massive continous shot of the heroes fighting in the big finale was just pure genius...I think that is one of (if not THE only) the most faithful translation of the comic genre to the big felt like a massive splash page...fantastic...and the Thanos cameo was just a stroke of genius...I wonder if the next slate of Marvel films will be a sort of quest for the Infinity gems :D.
People were cheering at all the right moments. Kudos Mr. Whedon, kudos.
@Destructo Girl - The alien Loki met while in exile.

About this movie. Well, there is nothing I can say that you folk haven't touched on. Top moments include Banner and Stark chatting and connecting, Black Widow being amazing with no "powers" (grabbing onto the flying Chitauri!), and the one shot of everyone fighting.

I loved how everyone was on the same page, even when it was a bad page. If one was down, they were all down. If one was coming back up, they all were. Everyone learned from someone else and came away with something they needed. This movie hit on all cylinders, and then there was this, one of my happiest moments this year:
Hey y'all, just fyi. The big bad who made a cameo mid credits is Thanos...he's a big bad wig in the Marvel U. In the Infinity Gauntlet story arc...he literally wiped out half the universe...all to appease his paramour, Death.

Here is his wiki entry:
I don't even know the last time a move made me feel like this. Thanks again Joss.
Puny Gods was my best guess too. It was probably the biggest laugh in the theater (I disappointingly seemed to be the only one that laughed out lout for Natasha & Hawkeye's Budapest reminiscing (Hawkeye saying that have vastly different recollections)

Even though it sparks sadness now, one of my favorite lines is still "Phil? His first name is Agent"

Awesomeness, all over the place.

Also I hope this stops people from discrediting post-converting to 3D. It is officially my favorite use of the form. Beautiful, no cheese, and some shots that I am certain will not be as appreciated by me when I see them in 2D. Everyone aims for the cheese, Joss aimed for the depth. AND IT WAS FUCKING BEAUTIFUL.

Hulk thrashing Loki, his knock out of Thor... Natasha and Barton fighting before she fixed him (neural reconstruction? ;o) ), Stark and Banner bonding was fantastic, hell the first part of the credits is now one of my favorite credit sequences - so pretty. Tom Hiddleston can Evil Smile like nobody else. Chris Hemsworth should be in all things, and RDJ needs to be in more Joss projects. Joss did a great job of making it feel Whedonesque without over doing it (Though, saying that, I can't wait to see the 40ish or so minutes that he cut out). I can really see where his OUTLINE OUTLINE OUTLINE sentiments really helped shape the progress of this film. I really wondered how that would work out, and it did so quite brilliantly.

It wasn't perfection for me, but it was about as damn close as someone can get. There were maybe a culmination of 5-10 minutes that rubbed me wrong spread over three parts. Pretty Damn Impressive.
Weklim: "puney god"

I just got back from the midnight show and it was great! Joss definitely knows how to bring the fun, I laughed a lot in this movie. I'm looking forward to the 3-D version on Saturday(!).
Oh! And also, Thanks for giving me another reason to hate the word Council ;o)
And the A being the only letter left on the Stark building. Nice touch!
Loved it. Just got back. Too late to think.
Well that was full of win.

Biggest crowd-pleaser at my showing: Loki the ragdoll.
I didn't notice Denisof and I feel like a bad person now.

Also, thanks to my friend who works at the theater and saw this movie earlier this week. I really appreciated when he swore to me multiple times there was nothing after Thanos...
I wasn't overwhelmed like some... my expectations were just to staggeringly high to be overwhelmed. Not underwhelmed either. No sir, I am just... perfectly whelmed.

Ready to see it again. Though, we were really tempted to turn around and see the 3am showing...

Gonna try for IMAX tomorrow WOO (full Imax, no mini-Imax)
Sigfodr, do NOT feel bad about not noticing Alexis. He didn't look or sound like himself. He can only be recognized when you KNOW who he is and are looking for his mannerisms.
It weirdly reminded me of SWAT, in the sense of, you had Samuel L. Jackson telling his superiors, "to hell with your plan, my team gets results".

It was INDESCRIBABLY awesome to be sitting in a fully-packed midnight showing, hearing a theater full of people laughing hysterically at Whedon's dialogue. That was just... perfection.
Just realized this:
Cap: They told me we won the war, but they never told me what we lost.

And much later:

Stark: (something something) nuclear deterrence bad!
Just back from midnight show in Denver. Our audience was AMAZING! How many times do you hear an audience go bat-shit over the director's credit? So much fun! Loki as a Warner Brothers cartoon gag was my fav. Loved it!
The movie is so nicely plotted, that it tells you by the letter in the 1st freaking minutes that there's another mastermind behind and who aided Loki (despite it being reinforced by another scene midway through the movie), but you kind of forget that until the 1st post credit scene.

Did people applause? The 1st few screenings I saw on last Friday and Saturday, people applauded during the 1st part of the final credits.
I am impressed by how every moment in the trailers AND all the preview scenes played better in the film itself. In some places I think different takes may have been used. They certainly hit different emotional beats.

Nice bit of misdirection with Hulk saving Iron Man. I kept waiting for it to happen, and when it did the circumstances were not what I expected.

Also, I walked out of the theater at 3 AM to see the corridor packed full of people. There was a line at the parking garage pay machine all the way out the door, and there were cars lined up to the third floor waiting to exit. We didn't move for some ten minutes at least.

I've attended my share of midnight screenings but I've never personally seen an opening this big. I always knew Whedon was capable of breaking into the mainstream, but I didn't dare dream it would happen all at once and in such a huge way.
I've commented a bit on the film in previous discussion posts, but I just published my full review:

'The Avengers' Review: Marvel Six-in-One
You see, we're so much more restrained in the UK. Cheering and applause are simply not done, and nobody says anything out loud. I saw Cowboys vs. Aliens in the US when I was over on holiday and watching a film in the US is a completely different experience that turned what was maybe a 3/5 decent sci-fi film into a massively fun movie-going experience - people cheered at the heroes, jeered at the villains, spoke back to the one-liners.

While there was still no cheering or applause for Avengers over here in the UK, the moment when the better part of a thousand normally-so-restrained British people packed into a huge room were united in unrestrained joyous laughter at the Hulk!Loki "conversation" will stay with me for a very long time. For all the lack of applause, the level of loud positive buzz coming out of the cinema was the most I've heard coming out of any film.
So you guys did get an extra scene after the credits? Somebody mentinoed something about shawarma? Could you describe it please, that would be awesome :)
One long, dialogue-free take of the heroes assembled at the shwarma place, gorging themselves, utterly exhausted.

It was beautiful.

[ edited by zoinkers on 2012-05-04 10:44 ]
Joss Whedon is everyone's master now. Just got out of a midnight showing and what an amazing film and what an audience I saw it with too. Favorite moment has to be the one shot of all the heroes doing battle. Joss does love his one shots. Can't wait to see it again (and can't wait for the inevitable Black Widow/Hawkeye movie)!
There are no words... loved it ALL- writing, ridiculously awesome one-shot, Stark & Banner banter, Hulk smashing Loki, EVERYTHING :)
I went to watch it last wednesday and absolutely loved it. Ragdoll Loki gave the biggest laught and I found that the best fights were the ones between heroes.

Also, am I the only one noticing there were a lot of 42s in the movie? (well, I found 3, but still) Do you think that's just coincidental or on purpose?
Just got back from a midnight showing! Holy crap! I loved this movie to pieces. It was a marvel movie but it truly felt like a Joss movie as well. It is AMAZING what that guy can do when he gets funding! (yes, the paraphrase/rephrase of Spike is intentional) Didn't recognize Alexis but will be looking for him next time. Recognized Enver immediately. Had to look up who the guy at the end was, not that into the actual marvel comics, but several in the audience cheered when he turned around.
I was a little skeptical of the audience when the trailers first started because everyone was so loud and boisterous, but were quiet as mice when the Avengers started. Everyone was cheering and clapping at different parts of the movie and laughing at all the jokes.
Quite a few people came dressed as superheros from this movie and other. Me? I wore my Serenity t-shirt!
Thought this was a pretty great film. Kinda shaky in the beginning--some fantastic moments, and some bits that dragged--but once they got on the aircraft carrier the film just took off and didn't stop. Top notch stuff. Wish we'd had more time to breathe, but I guess then we'd have the three-hour film and the sense of bloat. I just wanted to spend more time with these characters in a non-fighty capacity.

Good work, J!
Not only was it as wonderful as I expected, it was far funnier. My ribs hurt by the end of the movie. I can't remember the last time a comedy did that to me. Bravo, Joss. Bravo.
@Synbios the 42 thing, mostly a coincidence (I think), technically. The main action of the 3rd act happens around Grand Central Station, which is on 42nd Street of midtown Manhattan, it's more like a geographical reference, unless you've found other 42s in the movie outside of that sequence.
Thank you, Joss, for the most memorable and fun experience at the movies I've had in years and years. I didn't think it was possible to be a bigger fan of you and your work and I am happy to be proven wrong! And the entire cast was utterly brilliant, but the Hulk needs his own movie written and directed by Joss Whedon ASAP.
@Numfar PTB Yes, I did find more.
The scene where Steve, Bruce and Natasha are talking when they just got in the Helicarrier has a jet on the background with a 42 on it. And there is one scene where Dr Selvig is weighing something and the weight is 42.
And then of course the 42s from Manhattan :)
Also, can I just say how incredibly moving (at least to me) was Scarlett Johansson's acting in this movie? I believed Natasha every minute. I mean just wow. I hope she'll be part of more Joss projects in the future!
Unfortunatly,something came up for me and I won't be able to see this today.I won't be able to see it until Sunday. *sad face*
I think that was the best superhero movie I've ever seen. Joss Whedon, you have outdone yourself. And I'm not just saying that as a member of the Cult of Whedon. The dialogue was sharp, I cried tears of *Joss kills everyone you love* angst over Coulson, and I fangirled so hard over all the snuck in Whedon actor cameos, like Enver and Ashley Johnson from Dollhouse. Wow, just, wow.
Hulk... punched Thor... off the screen... brain stopped.

Am I the only one that had flashbacks to "The Incredible Hulk Returns" while watching that?

As for the rest of the movie, I need to gather my thoughts! SO much awesome!
I missed the UK round of discussion, so best bits;

"I'm always angry" then punching the alien dragon snake thing. Actually anything with Hulk in the last third.

His first name is Agent.

Thor/Loki. I love me some Thor/Loki

Cannot believe Joss killed of Phil. Although, we didn't see a body and it's a superhero comic book film. So maybe not dead?
Synbios: clearly, the only logical conclusion is that the meaning of life, the universe and everything is Joss.


[ edited by skittledog on 2012-05-04 12:59 ]

I have a feeling Coulson isn't dead. I think Fury just used his "death" to motivate the Avengers into action. Like how he said the trading cards were from his jacket, but they were actually from his locker.

I think he is going to pop up in the next one.

I hope cos otherwise *sob*
@skittledog: it seems that way :)
I read somewhere that Stark's technology helped create The Hulk. So was that guilt that spurred Tony into being friends with Bruce?
Back from midnight and sooooo sleepy, but my first impressions were that it's super-fun, bright and perhaps contains the best final action-y act of any superhero movie, ever. I mean, usually the fighty stuff at the end is the pro forma stuff that I tune out, but in The Avengers, the team fighting is really the gorgeous, necessary point of the whole movie.

Hulk stole the whole movie. And the impressive thing is that Joss got Banner right too! Ruffalo is perfect as Banner AND Hulk and he got the biggest laughs and cheers in the theater...

When the credits rolled, my midnight screening audience cheered and clapped when Joss's name came up!

[ edited by dottikin on 2012-05-04 13:17 ]
Yes. "A Joss Whedon film". How cool was that?
I've been back for two hours and finally am so tired that I can go to bed, but my quick thoughts:

Loved, loved, loved this movie. I didn't really know anything much about The Avengers until I saw Iron Man and then the rest of the movies (except for the Hulk). My version of the Hulk was Bill Bixby/Lou Ferrigno so I was pleased that that was what Joss based his on. The Hulk definitely got some of the biggest cheers of the night.

There was so much fun - and funny - in this movie. So much Joss-y goodness. People laughed at all the right lines - they cheered, especially when Joss's name came on at the beginning of the end credits as "A Joss Whedon Film" and then as director, writer and screenwriter.

I don't think anyone left the theatre until after Thanos appeared. (I didn't know who he was but the guys beside me did and appeared thrilled.) They were going to leave - and a few people did - but I told them there was another scene at the end. Everyone who stayed loved it - laughed all the way through and then clapped again.

I'm so happy for Joss that the world is now seeing what most of us here have seen for years. The man is a genius who not only knows how to write and direct but how to get the best out of his cast.

Now I really have to go to bed!
My minor nitpicks, which by no means overshadow the awesome:

-The very first scene was, to me, unnecessary.
-The aliens were kind of... indistinct? I still cannot picture their faces clearly.

Other than that, hell of a ride.
Saw it last night. It was amazing. Still formulating my thoughts about it. Need to see it a 2nd time(and maybe a 3rd and a 4th and...)
I wouldnt go as far as to say that the world is now seeing what fans did, as i dont think most critics, even those who are raving, actually "get" Joss, or at least what most fans "get" about him, but at least people, even non Joss-fans, are loving it, wich is cool.

But i still get the feeling that either i see too much in his work or Joss will always be a cult director at hearth.

[ edited by Darkness on 2012-05-04 14:08 ]

[ edited by Darkness on 2012-05-04 14:08 ]
Well I thought that Tony was qenuinely bonding w/Bruce over the fact that they both really spoke the same (Scientific) language....

And I'm pretty sure Joss really killed Coulson (and of course it HAD to be another sucking chest wound?!) because if Phil lived and discovered that Fury had wrecked his near mint condition Captain American trading cards, then he would likely turn into the next Super Villain!.

So can someone PLEASE tell me what role Alexis Denisof played so I can look for him? I was watching pretty closely and I haven't got a clue!

This really was an amazing film... it won't beat out 'Serenity' in my mind/heart, but it is right up there! It was funny, exciting, and moving.
@Illy: The shwarma scene was after all the credits, and the audience laughed almost as hard at that scene as the Loki as ragdoll scene. All the Avengers are sitting around a table in a rather unremarkable restaurant where two beleaguered workers are trying to clean up the rubble from the mega-fight. There is no dialogue, just the heroes - still in costume - eating their shwarma. The different reactions to it are priceless. Iron Man looks like he's wondering why the hell he thought having shwarma was a good idea. Black Widow is trying to make sense of the mess her sandwich is. Thor at first looks at it as someone would if he's never had earth food before, takes a bite out of it, and looks like he's genuininely enjoying it.

I have to see the scene again to see/recall the reactions of all the others, but each heroes reaction seemed appropriate for their character.

This is that scene where Joss has everybody in a circle doing something mundane, in a way only Joss can do it.

It's worth the price of admission just to see that scene!

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2012-05-04 14:53 ]
"Its worth the price of admission just to see that scene!"

Not if you are not an american its NOT.

I hope they have the decency to put it on the dvd...

[ edited by Darkness on 2012-05-04 15:01 ]
@Darkness - No argument there. It's pricey here, too (which is why I will see the morning matinee - which is $5 - when I see it again), but I've heard of how steep the prices are in other countries.
I would like to know whether that scene is only American, or whether it a) is included in the other markets opening this weekend or b) will ever show up at the end of the film in countries where it's open already? I'm guessing b) is a no-no because you'd have to redistribute a different version of the film, but I want to know about a). I'm interested on whether it didn't get added to the earlier releases because of time constraints (given when it was filmed) or because it was filmed as a special extra for the US alone (maybe to placate you for the later opening).

Anyone from Russia or China able to comment yet?

Edit: but it damn well better be on the dvd everywhere...

[ edited by skittledog on 2012-05-04 15:24 ]
@ embers - The dialogue in Coulson's death scene seemed to be written exclusively for the Whedon fans in the audience. "No it had to be this way, because then they'd always wonder..."
Lot of Joss in the film, though. A lot of great Joss moments, including Black Widow saving the day.
He really was the only one who could make sense of the group's dynamics and tell one heck of a story with it, too.

ETA: The scene of Thanos should have been the after the credits scene in all markets, and the Schwarma one should have come mid credits. The Thanos reveal sets up big things for the next round of Avengers films and the potential for the Infinity Gauntlet.

[ edited by spidyredneckjedi on 2012-05-04 15:28 ]
The problem with the Thanos thing is that, contrary to other after credits scenes, it felt more like a scene from the movie than a harbringer, so putting it at the end of the movie it would have lost a bit of that conection.

Nebula1400: i wasnt as much talking about the fact that cinema tickets are costly as for the facts that most countries dont get that scene at all, too much of a punishment for seeing the movie one week in advance. But i dont want to derail this thread into a discussion of the subject: this is about how great The Avengers was.

And by golly, it was great. More Jossian than i might have predicted, even when some people have problems understandng the script (why Hulk was an uncontrolable force first and then so docile is a major problem for many people, even when i thought it was really simple and clear) and acuse it of being incredibly superficial.

I dont agree of course; i think Joss is his old subtle master myself, with a real cnack for charachterization with wonderful dramatic moments that go deep into the characters utmost fears.
Saw it last night and loved it! I'm planning to see it again this weekend, in 2D this time. I completely missed Alexis, but I'll look for him when I see it again. Loved Enver! I think Joss did a positively brilliant job!
@Darkness the way the Hulk changed was actually something that bothered me and I was trying to think back to earlier scenes to understand how Bruce was able to control the Hulk all of a sudden. If you don't mind, could you explain or help me understand how that happened?
Destructo, my understanding is that Banner can now decide to become the Hulk, but if his body is freaking out he can't KEEP himself from becoming the Hulk. He's always got the anger, so changing is easy--staying Banner is what's difficult.
Joss did it. He pulled it off. I knew he would, but I was a little bit afraid for him because of caring so much.

Only saw the trailer once, and went in spoiler free. Attended the marathon yesterday in Austin (14.5 hrs). It was worth seeing all the movies back-to-back. Not being familiar with the Marvel canon, it was invaluable having everyone’s backstory top of mind.

Going to jot down some impressions before reading everyone else’s comments, so apologies for any repeats.

Impressed that the two characters I went into the movie thinking would be treated as filler (Hawkeye and Black Widow) turned into my favorites at the hands of Joss. It makes sense, in that they were his blankish slate, but so much love there.

Agent Coulson and his trading cards; his offhand “So that’s what it does.” The “I was in the room while you were unconscious.” clarification. The “I'm always angry.” from Bruce Banner. Mark Ruffalo - his quiet reserve, his nervous gentleness. He brought so much to the role, his every word riveted me. The “Shakespeare in the Park” quip by Stark. Black Widow comforting Hawkeye when he asks her how many agents were harmed while he was under Loki’s control. Scarlett Johansson injured and shivering from shock after the Hulk threw her against a bulkhead. Loki chewing up the screen, making it almost impossible to hate him.

Special effects. Wha...? The amazing eel-like alien space ships swimming through the air. Hawkeye’s brilliant arrows and how he handled frickin’ cool. The craft flown by Hawkeye that looked a tiny bit like Serenity, and even crashed somewhat the same way. The aircraft carrier that flew. There has to be a great pun in that.

The fight scenes were visceral. Actual groans of sympathy would ripple across the audience.

The fact that the civilians the Avengers were defending in the last battle had a clue and weren’t just running around like chickens. The camera managed to give them pathos and faces and you empathized with them. A lot. Flashbacks of 9/11.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all the female actresses were sporting their own cup size. Pepper sans makeup and barefoot at home with Tony was also a nice touch.

One of the wait staff at the Alamo did a kamikaze run around the room telling us not to leave after the first coda, so bless her for that. Such laughter, such applause. Seeing The Avengers with great fanboys and girls (bloody gender wars my hind end - the mix was about 60/40, so whatevs) is a fond memory that will linger.

There’s so much more, but will stop now. Wanna read everyone else’s impressions.
I think perhaps we were meant to infer from Banner's line "I'm always angry" that, although he's unable to *prevent* the change, he can also *force* the change. When he forces it, he's more in control. Um, maybe.
I didn't think that Banner was completely in 'control' of the Hulk once he changed, but that perhaps the Hulk likes smashing the things that have particularly angered Banner. In the first hulk-out, that's everyone on the carrier and particularly those affiliated with SHIELD who may have been manipulating him. The second time, however, his fury is rightly directed at all the aliens attacking New York. But I think the side-punch of Thor was intended to a) make me laugh hysterically and b) show that Banner's not in total control - anyone who's within smash range and isn't his bestest pal (aw, Iron Man) will probably get some tangential smashing, just 'cos.

[ edited by skittledog on 2012-05-04 17:00 ]
I haven't had that much fun at the movies in years. I'm serious. And that's even considering that the last 4 movies I have seen in theaters have all been midnight showings with packed crowds.

The movie made me remember that I can laugh at a film, like actually laugh at something that's funny, rather than something amusing. I don't even laugh at comedies that way anymore.

Other favorite line I haven't seen mentioned here that was actually my first favorite moment of the movie:

Coulsen: "Stephen Hawking... he's a... smart person."

Excellent delivery, so much Joss in there. Reminds me of how desperate I am for more quirky humor like this in the movies. I think everyone in the audience recognized that there was something different about this film. It wasn't the bland, "anyone could have written this" fare that we've been conditioned to expect.

Extremely happy for Joss. Maybe now people won't always go "who?" when I mention his name with awe.
Hulk is Banners anger incarnated. We guess that Banner has been trying to keep himself from turning into Hulk by not being angry, but repressing anger nevr works; you repress emotions, they come out anyway, and worse.

So what Banner has been doing is far smarter; he has accepted anger, and instead of avoiding it, he has kept it under control, learning to work with it to get to his goals.

Banner thinks Hulk is a monster, a curse, and verybody else things something similar; everybody but Stark, who believes one day he could control the Hulk, wich is a blesing in disguise, a power for good and something he might acept one day fully.

The first time he transforms, it after Lokis staff has been mingling with all of the heroes mind, enforcing all the hostility taht is in them; Banner is affected by it, with all his paranoia and fear hightened first by Lokis words, his own fears that he might nd in a cage, and the staff; still in some kind of controll, but emotionally still charged, there is an explosion; he falls; fear, surprise, panic, rage, added to the stress he has just sufered, made him loose contro, of his emotions and he got unwilingly transformed into HUlk; an uncontrolled HUlk, as uncontrolled was the emotion that brought him there.

Banner wants to be a hero, but he is scared of the mknster inside of him; Starks faith in him and probably the fact that the first human he meets after the first transformation treats him like being green, or an alien, aint nothing to write home about, plus the gravity of the situation make him take a decission; its time to shred fear, insecurity, and acept the HUlk as part of himself, the fact that he has learned to control him and that it is time to risk it all to make some use of it. To be the hero he always wanted to be but was too scared to become.

And then comes the second transformation; he isnt avoiding anger, he is always angry, he has controll over his anger, he has learned to control it. The Hulk is Banners anger incarnate: uncontrolled anger equals uncontrolled HUlk. Controlled Anger means controlled HUlk. Its that simple.

In a way, Banners journey reminds me of Willows; after being Dark Willow, now magic is part of her, but she cant get rid of it, she is scared she may loose controll, even when she has worked really hard to not become Dark Willow again. In the end, she takes charge of herself, looses he fear, trusts her ability to work with good magic and not fall again, and instead of Dark Willow, she becomes a godess.

Banner can contro his anger, but emotions are still tricky and he can still loose it from time to time, like all of us, but he is in control most of the time; he is just too scared and to hostile to part of himself to try and do something with it, to accept that its not a curse, but part of himself, who he trully is, and part of what makes him exceptional.

And that journey of aceptance is very Jossian.
Saw it at midnight last night with my sisters after seeing the previous 5 with a huge crowd at local theater (they've got 4 screens with smaller seating, and then a fifth where we were with a TON of seats which at most I've seen BARELY 3/4 filled before, tonight it was sold out with people sitting on the stairs and floor) and it was one heck of an experience. Was great to see many true Joss fans there, as well as many true comic fans, and as a lesbian it was a treat to see other lovely ladies who are into comics as well :D I had such a blast!

But there was SO much laughter during the Avengers, cheering, clapping. The film had the theater laughing more hysterically than any comedy I've ever seen, and whenever something great happened, which was rather often, there was cheering and applause. A nice standing ovation at the end of the film as well. :)

People went NUTS for both after the Credits scene. I knew at the start...just somehow...that Thanos was the man behind it all. And then at the end when you see him turn and just smile, oh god, the theater went crazy. :D Then the second much laughing. :) It was great. Because everyone was trying not to laugh in case they said anything but no one could help it. And when it ended, there was another minute or so of laughter, and literally another 10 minutes of applause.
I've never seen a movie audience laugh so hard at a film before. It also seemed like everyone was even more excited about the movie exiting than when they walked in; there were so many people just hovering outside afterward discussing how much they loved it. And when we got to the garage, well, there had been about 15 showings packed full of people so it felt more like we were leaving a sporting event in terms of traffic. I'm pretty sure that's the first time I've ever been excited about waiting in a line of cars.

I had such high hopes going in and I enjoyed it even more than I had hoped I would.
Darkness: I see. That's sad that you didn't get that scene. I've never seen so many people laughing so hysterically throughout the entirety of one scene - and afterward - in my life.

This movie is a masterpiece. Joss Whedon is a genius. This movie is one of those movies that is going to have a HUGE cult following for decades.
Yeah, well, this kind of thing happens all the time. I had to import the extended editions of Watchmen for a friend cause the were distributed only in a few countries around the world (some distribution rifghts issue or whatever) , and extended editions of King Kong, The New World and Heavens gate never saw the light of day around here. Seen it already on youtube on decent quality (and people laughing really hard) so, what the heck. At least, let it be on the dvd...

Talking of other things (or, like some would say, "and now for something compltelly different...") Im curious to see the crowd reactions from tomorrow on, as im sure most of the midnight showings wre filled with whedon fans, marvel fans and such: im sure it will be huge, but "regular" people clapping at Joss will sound even better when it happens.

Here it has. Crowds with children LOVE it.
My six-word review of Avengers is the same as my six-word review of Serenity:

"That was awesome; DAMN IT, JOSS"

In this case, the second half is due entirely to poor, poor Agent Coulson. As soon as he was sitting propped up against the wall like that, I was afraid of where it was going (no Joss don't you dare DON'T YOU DARE) and then he had his final scene with Nick Fury (Joss you are DARING I TOLD YOU NOT TO) and then it was the end (DAMMIT JOSS why do you always KILL THE PEOPLE I LOVE) (YOU SUCK SIR).

I loved the movie, but I am still angry about it this morning! I hope Joss takes that as a compliment, because it absolutely is. :)
It's awesome when Joss kills a character we've grown to love, or at least accept as a mainstay in his stories.
Can someone who is more familiar with the comics tell me if/how it makes sense that all the aliens fall over dead when their home world is blown up? That's the one part of the film that I was dissapointed in. It felt like a cop out.
In the comics, the Chi'tauri were basically the Ultimate version of the the movie they seemed more just like power ranger puddies for the heroes to fight...which is fine. It didn't make much sense to me either that they would just 'turn off' after Thanos' space station exploded since they weren't robotic.'s a minor thing I'm willing to forgive. Maybe there is something in that station that allows them to exist on Earth and w/o it, they would just die?
I didnt have much trouble with that. Its an old sci-fi trope, a true classic, it has been used many times. It uaually sugest, when they are not robots (GO Lucas!!!), that they are some kind of hive-mind and the central mind-mother thing dying, the conexion broken, they die.

Im quite positive in the comics the Chitauri wre actually hive minds, but i dont really remember them that much; anyway, the movie should be explainable for itself; reading comics shouldnt be necesary.
It's also possible that Joss has laid out the direction that other Marvel movies with Thanos will head, and there is an explanation we'll get in the future.

Or not.
Surprised nobody has mentioned the gravity in space yet, ha. It's a sign that scene worked emotionally that people aren't burning their Iron Man costumes.

Thinking of going a 3rd time at weekend. I still have the puny god scene playing in repeat in my head.
Co-worker and I have completely fanwanked the death away. I didn't see a body buried and it wouldn't be the only lie Fury told that day to motivate the team. :)
The guy died with his eyes open; dont se many fakes doing that.
@gossi - in general I think when people nitpick physics, it's a phenomenon that only happens if either the story didn't work or they just like nitpicking. I noticed it, but I'm just not the type to really care unless the story isn't working.

I must say I had Phil circled on my list of most likely candidates and it did fulfill what I figured would be the rules: you can't kill the super heroes in this one. I'd agree with someone up above that I didn't really love the character, but he had a charm.

@Simon, I think Bruce and Tony are friends because they speak the same language. There may be an aspect of wanting to help, but I think it may be Tony just recognizes an intellect closer to his own and that's appealing. Kind of like the Widow and Hawkeye seem to gravitate towards Rodgers as the movie goes on because they all have a military background.

Oh, and someone said something about the aliens being indistinguishable and I think that is the Storm Trooper phenomenon. They knew they were going to have kids in the audience so what is often considered the softest thing to do is to make the individual bad guys menacing and rather indistinct. That way kids don't really fixate on bad guys dying and keeping track of who's who is fairly easy.
Darkness, the medical team (we never saw or heard from) could have resuscitated him. Look, let me have my delusions until the next movie. :)
I fanwanked the gravity problem away by imagining Iron Man pushed backwards from the rocket, even though he clearly didn't and even if he had he'd still have ended up going forwards... but hey. Compared to all the 'gamma radiation is magic!' that comes with the comics territory, it's acceptable.

(Hey, remember when there was 'gamma radiation' in Dollhouse's Epitaph Two that somehow had a wavelength of 'more than two metres'? Wacky fun times.)
But if there's a portal ripping through that space, who knows what that could have done to physics?

Also, the aliens being non-fleshed out I believe was yet another seed being sown. They were after all wearing Thanos colours, so a comeback and explanation etc is likely in the sequel.
I think one part that most likely gets over looked because of its sheer tininess, is when Hawkeye breaks through some glass. He didn't just get back up, he groaned for the pain of the glass ripping into him, which is something I really appreciated because there are plenty of times in film/tv where people just tear through glass like it's paper. Realism and Pain return = Characters more at stake, action more tense. Joss GETS this stuff!
Iron Man "falling" can be explained as being sucked back into the closing wormhole. I'd say something from Earth did it, like gravity, but it's likely the air would have been rushing from Earth through the wormhole into space.

I believe Coulson is alive. Mainly because I want to. But mainly because this is a comic movie, and nobody dies in comics. Not even Bucky apparently. Also: no burial, Fury explained why he took the cards from the locker, and no one else said he was dead except Fury to the Avengers. There's room for doubt.

The other option is Coulson will be shifted over to the new and soon to be announced Marvel Zombies movie series. It could happen!
@Dude Meister - I did notice the Hawkeye thing. And plenty of other times like Widow limping for a while and just looking about ready to collapse during the finale.

As for the aliens, the hive mind option works for me. There was a part earlier in the battle where they all got pissed and attacked Hulk (I think) for killing/destroying one of those big flying worms. Either they were family or they were connected somehow.
I am hoping that Stark will turn Coulson into Agent Automaton and that the partially resurrected brain of Phil the Robot will get revenge on Fury for wrecking his near mint Captain America Trading Cards!

And yeah, I thought that Ironman was sucked back to Earth due to some kind of closing a worm hole sucking action (rather than from gravity as such).

And the Hulk should always fling puney gods around! He is so awesome. I want a Hulk movie now.
For those asking about Alexis role, well I believe it have yet to be 100% confirmed, but looking at the movie and the fact that he is the 1st one credited in the additional cast, it was postulated that he plays the Thanos "assistant", as he is credited as The Other (actually my 1st thought was that he was Thanos Desaad, but I don't remember Thanos having one of those in the comics), and is actually the 1st character we hear speaking in the movie. If you watch the performance carefully you can picture him under those prosthetica and that manipulated voice.

Anyone else noticed that Fury called the carrier "this Boat"? I smirked. As I was never a huge reader of books featuring SHIELD, I'm not sure they refer to it in the comics. In the parallel sense, I had fun that the Tesseract was refered as a "She", both bringing back memories of Firefly/Serenity.
Perhaps Coulson's death will be used as a lead in to the Dr Strange movie, as his powers include resurrection. Phil: REBORN!
Numfar PTB, they always referred to the flying SHIELD HQ as the Hellicarrier.
Agreed about "Agent"'s demise. The producers could leave him dead, or show him alive in the sequel (which would surely bring audience cheering when he is first shown). We see the paramedics starting to work, but we only have Fury's word that he was "pronounced".

The open eyes doesn't help. On the other hand, I know of a former college roommate who slept with his eyes halfway open. (Very creepy, but he was a sleep-deprived engineering major.)

I'm thinking that Coulson's response after his encounter with Loki was a direct demonstration that the worst line in the first X-Men film would have worked if Halle Barry didn't tragically misread it.
Anyone think Joss cast Clark Gregg in "Much Ado..." to make up for killing him (his run in Marvel movies almost rivals Stan Lee's)? It also helps that Gregg is a very good actor and seems like a great guy.
I think I am in love. I knew I would love it, I knew I would. I DIDN'T KNOW I WOULD LOVE IT THIS MUCH! IT IS GOLD! I knew Joss would kill someone I loved and I think we all assumed it would be a hero but poor Coulson. We should have known but I didn't see it coming the slightest.

Seriously guys I am just in awe right now I can't formulate feelings.
Oops. We slipped off the front page.

That was the best time I've had at the movies since . . . three weeks ago, at CITW. I went in spoiler-free, and I just loved the film. In retrospect, I wish I had known that Alexis was in it--as well as the after-credits scene. So I'll know better on the next viewing, because there will be at least one more on my part. Other than that, I can't add to what you guys have already said. The biggest laugh in my audience, too, was the ragdoll Loki. And all clearly enjoyed themselves throughout. Congrats, Joss!
Up Next. . .Joss Whedon's Infinity Gauntlet. . .Count me in!
Absolutely brilliant! Everything a summer flick should be: fun, witty, action-packed...oh and evenly done character development! If there's one thing Joss does well (and he does many things well), it's working with an ensemble cast. I think another viewing is in order. Well-done Joss!!!!!!
@Gossi et al, Tony was thrown backwards by the force of the nuclear explosion, which also tossed a lot of debris his way. Once the wormhole closed he was caught by Earth's gravity.

I assumed before the explosion that Earth's gravity would be affecting him. However, it's a fair point that someone mentioned gravity may not be traversing the wormhole for the same reason the air doesn't seem to be sucking into space. The wormhole may have a "surface tension" of sorts that requires a certain amount of force to punch through. Then again, maybe the atmosphere doesn't vent into space for the same reason it doesn't normally do that. That close to earth, the gravity and the magnetic fields keep it in (I'm not a scientist though). In which case, the gravity of Earth could certainly act on Tony before the explosion gives him a boost.

And, I've over thought it. Because...

Once again, dunno why anyone would be concerned about this anyway. This is a world where the Hulk, the Iron Man suit, the helicarrier, Thor, Loki, wormholes, and a whole bunch of other fictional things are scientific truths. Physics work differently, I have no problem with Tony being pulled (or pushed) towards the wormhole. :P
OK, that's one of the reason I love discussing things here. bobw1o assessment makes sense.

Thanks for specifying that thing about the Hellcarrier for me alexreager.

And since Stupendous went there (I did use invisio-text in another thread, which I don't think is required anymore). Anyone else think that the "gem" on the scepter might be the Mind Gem, and exploring the other infinite gems might be part of the next bundle of movies??

Anyway, going away of the land of speculation (just a bit), the fate of the scepter is left unclear at the end of the movie, correct? I can't seem to recall.
I remember, last seeing it at Natasha's hand when they confront Loki that last time during the " can I have the drink now scene", but I don't remember spotting it during the Central Park scene when Thor uses the tesseract (anyone else keep wanting to type Cosmic Cube, and have to correct back?) to return himself and Loki to Asgard.
Excuse me, Mr. Whedon, but I would like to discuss Phil Thorson, if you don't mind.
People applaud and cheer here. When the title came up initially, when the credits started. And when the Hulk beat the tar out of Loki, there was applause that went on for a little while. When I saw Cabin, people cheered at certain parts and someone yelled "Use your hammer!" at Curt.

Naudience, threads aren't a place to address questions to Joss. Unless he asks for them and to my recollection that's been once.
I was impressed with how much it felt like a natural continuation of the Iron Man, Thor, and Captain American movie franchises. Felt very smooth with bringing them all together under one roof.
Where can I buy the DVD?
I was awed by how well it continued the other movies and yet was so very Joss. Along with all the other great stuff, it just blew my mind to hear all those A-list actors speaking so Jossily.
Whoops, didn't see the new thread. Will repost.

[ edited by Rachelkachel on 2012-05-05 09:26 ]
Numfar...didn't think about that before, but it could have been the Mind Gem. Is that how Hawkeye et al were controlled so easily?? I'd rather see a flat out Infinity Gauntlet, but your idea about spreading the gems throughout the different movies is interesting. That would fill in an audience that might not know Infinty Gauntlet, could incorporate Thanos in more than one character's movie, and build up to Avengers 2. Or maybe if the gems are separated, perhaps an Illuminati-type story.

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