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May 05 2012

(SPOILER) Discuss 'The Avengers' - round four. In which we carry on having a good natter about the Big Damn Superhero Movie.

Previous discussion threads can be found here, here and here.

Saw it again. That's twice in twenty-four hours. I had to check to make sure it was still awesome.

It was.
My eyes are popping out at these box office numbers. 2nd biggest opening day of all time!? I always believed Whedon would become a mainstream success, but this is crazy.
Saw midnight Thursday. Saw 1PM matinee Friday. Likely seeing 2:35PM matinee Saturday. Not much more to say than that, really.
I've never seen a 3D movie before but I might make an exception for The Avengers. From what people are saying here, it's actually not too bad of a conversion.
I've also seen it twice now in the last 24 hours, and I can't stop thinking about it. This is such a huge success for both Whedon and Marvel. I'm sure it'll make a lot of people check out Whedon's work and made me (a casual comic reader, limited mostly to Buffy, Walking Dead and Ultimate Spider-Man) want to seek out comics based on these characters who I loved in this film and didn't really care about before (like Thor!), so mutually beneficial for both parties!.....The dump-trucks of cash probably don't hurt ether.
I still haven't seen it, but it sounds interesting. :)
The Black Widow was my favorite character in the movie and reminded me a lot of Buffy on steroids.
Biggest surprise for me, and the most appreciated one, I think: the Stark/Banner relationship. I loved the shit out of this stuff, and it was really unexpected.
I love the Loki *ding* on Stark.
What impressed me most about the film were the team-up moments. Iron Man bouncing a shot off Cap's shield is the first that comes to mind. The Avengers took superhero team-up action to a new level. It makes other comic book team movies look silly and unimaginative by comparison.

Also, not a single line of dialogue is wasted. Every line either serves the plot or is there to make you laugh (and sometimes both). And there wasn't one clunky one-liner. I saw the film at a matinee today, maybe 2/3 full, and the audience laughed over so much of the follow-up dialogue to the big jokes that I'm dying to see this again in a near empty theater. I'll probably have to wait at least a few weeks for that.

There was so much going on in the film and at such a break-neck pace, I needed a few hours to process all of it. I didn't have the same emotional reactions others did. I smiled a lot, but never got teary-eyed or got goose bumps from any scene. But, it was still great. And I have a feeling I'll enjoy it more on a second viewing.
I went to a midnight showing last night, but didn't really have my thoughts in order right after. I really enjoyed it. Can't say whether I loved it yet, but I definitely want to see it again. Soon. Probably multiple times. I did love seeing all the stuff that minor characters from other films got to do, particularly Black Widow. For the number of people in this thing, it's amazingly well balanced.

Somebody on another thread mentioned the constant setups and payoffs, which I liked too. It's nice to have the assumption that you have a memory more than two minutes long - plus, they were often incredibly funny or really moving.

The audience was very appreciative, applauding in several places, including the end (I think for the movie as a whole, rather than for Joss's name). Plenty of laughter too, although much like DreamRose I think I was the only one that laughed at the Budapest line. Unfortunately, the 3D was not very good on our screen - it was a fake-IMAX one, with non-RealD, which is apparently the good one? I was seeing double a bit and I had a headache halfway through. There was also a bit of a damper on my enjoyment because my sister was not in a good mood, having forgotten her 2D glasses (3D often makes her sick). She says the parts with people talking were fine without glasses but most of the CGI was blurry, so she has no idea how cool it looked.

My favorite line (at the moment, and probably misquoted): "It seems to run on some form of electricity!"
Just got back from my 2nd viewing as well, the first time in IMAX 3D (regular 3D last night). Still awesome. The crowd was definitely into it and fully entertained. Laughter in all the right places.

I'll be seeing it tomorrow in 2D tomorrow and again on Sunday. Each time with a different group of friends. It's so much fun watching for reactions and talking about it afterwards. It's not so much fun before the movie when you can't talk about it. :)
@Rachelkachel - Yeah, I noticed the difference in 3D as well. Fake IMAX tonight was double vision whenever my head was slightly tilted. RealD last night was fine the entire movie.
I'm really hoping it breaks the opening day box office record set by HP8 because Joss deserves all the best things. I got a text from a friend in Southern California that the 10pm showings were sold out so he and his friends got tickets to the 1am show and got in line. I was like, what?! they do that?

It also is getting an "A+" Cinema score apparently, which is crazy.
Now I can finally post this:

Did anyone notice that Iron Man (before the rocket is coming in) crash lands IN FRONT of that Shawarma joint? :) ...that's how he knew it was "only two blocks away".

I noticed that during my second viewing. These little details are so awesome, I don't know of that was intentional from the get-go and they built the set or edited that sign in digitally afterwards but it was really cool. Shows you how everyone seemed to care about the movie they made.

The only thing that's a little "meh" about the movie is the scene in Germany. I get what it was trying to do but it just felt weird. Maybe that's 'cause I'm German myself and almost everything in TV/Movies whether it's foreign actors trying to speak the language or stereotypical stuff thrown about, is always a little odd. Still, having Stark come in with Shoot to Kill playing over everyone's earpieces was a fantastic distraction from that :D
Anyone notice Enver Gjokaj in the movie??? No? well he was there and so was Alexis Denisof but you all probably already knew that!!!
As far as 3D conversions go, it was okay. But anyone with budget shouldn't feel they're missing out.
I've only seen the film once (this week) and loved it to bits, it's the most fun I've had in the cinema in a long time. Right now it's my favorite super hero films of all time (although I've only seen it once so can't be sure).
I really hope I get the opportunity to watch it again on the big screen.
I made the conscious decision to see it in 2D and feel pretty confident in that.
I'm not the biggest fan of 3D anyway (even when it's not post-converted) and a lot of the scenes where very dark and 3D glasses lose at least 30% of the brightness of the image.
Should my second viewing be 3D?
Anyway, so much great Whedon dialogue and the best action I've seen in a Marvel studios film. I was afraid the studio would want to dilute Whedon's influence but it clearly has his finger prints all over it.
And what's great is all the reviews I've read (and watched and heard) seem to be picking up on that and giving credit where it's due.
Can't wait to see what the man does next. :)
@richied1983

yup, that was posted on the front page quite some time ago (at least Enver, don't remember if Alexis was hidden behind a spoiler tag or not)

Enver even had two lines. Still not sure if Alexis' character "The Other" was this alien dude with the deep voice that talked to Loki or red face dude (Thanos? - although that seems very unlikely since that was only a CG-face with no lines and then there's the name thing).


During my second viewing, I tried to pay attention to the way the alien pronounced things and sometimes I felt like "yea, that's how I remember Wesley saying things" (mostly when he whispered) but then again it sounded very un-Alexis-like.

@Kzap: I saw it in 3D the first time and in 2D the second time. (It was my first 3D movie, by the wa) And I didn't miss anything when it was 2D. I feel it's just very very unnecessary and doesn't really add anything to the scenes they used it in. Save yourself some money or just go see it in 2D again multiple times :D

//2edits because I'm too stupid to edit properly the first time ;)

[ edited by D-e-f- on 2012-05-05 10:51 ]

[ edited by D-e-f- on 2012-05-05 10:52 ]
I had not anticipated how much seeing this film was going to make me interested in all the characters in it. I'd already watched Iron Man (though I missed the first half hour... oops... dinner took precedence over films on tv), but now I want to watch Thor and Captain America as well. I think that's a measure of how much love for each of the characters this film had and managed to pass on to me.
Joss got each character and done better with them than their own movies. Period. And his action direction was perfect. I knew how talented he is since the bar fight in "Serenity" but the one-shot here might be one of my favorite scenes ever!

We didn't get the last scene as well, although the film opened here yesterday. Seeing it on youtube, I'd love to see what the reaction it'd get.

Other than that, the movie was pure perfection. I nearly cried when I saw "A Joss Whedon Film". Seeing "Cabin" last week, and now this... 2012 is a great year for us all. Can't wait to own them on Blu-Ray with interviews and behind the scenes footage and hopefully a commentary by Joss.

Favorite scenes were of course "Puny god", "His first name is Agent", 10 buck bit, Thor's "He is adopted" response, Loki failing to control Stark and Coulson asking for Captain's signature. So funny.

I don't believe Coulson is dead. I really hope he comes back. And this manipulation shades a big shadow on Fury. I hope we'll explore his "darkness" more in new Marvel movies.

I didn't know Joss signed on for more Avengers movies, but if he did Marvel would be a fool not to give it to him after all this positive reaction.

I forgot Alexis was in it and didn't notice it during the movie. I cheered when I saw Enver and Ashley.
@D-e-f-
I completely agree with you concerning the scene in Germany. I'm also German and here, at least half the audience growned at that scene. The audience loved the movie as a whole, I did too, everyone clapped at the end, laughed at the right moments, etc - but this one scene certainly rubbed us the wrong way. This theme is just so overused. I'm really tired of seeing Germans always being displayed as the Nazis, the ones that kneel in front of the villain. Bleukh!

Other than that, I really really really loved this movie so damn much. I had to watch it in 3D to be able to see it in English, but I am hoping that maybe in a few weeks the original version will also be shown in 2D, then I will definitely go watch it again. And I want a new Hulk movie by Joss Whedon, pleeeeease!
I also can't wait to see the mid-credits scene. It's a shame we don't get to see it on the big screen here, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be included on the DVD/Blu-Ray.
That movie was awesome. The team up scenes were the best for me because thats what the comics are about and they finally got it right. Black Widow was made so much better by Joss, as was banner/Hulk. He got the Avengers right. The whole movie was just truly Avengers and I hope Marvel gives him the keys to the magical kingdom after this.
That was the shortest two and a half hours I can remember, much shorter than the interminable two and a half hours before the movie. I was surprised when we got to New York because it felt like the movie had only been going for about forty minutes.

Loved: Hulk swatting Thor for fun late in the movie.

Joss has helped Marvel set their own bar so much higher now. Marvel can—and should—aspire to a Pixar calibre track record from here on in.

Kevin Feige has specifically said that he wants Joss back for #2 and that it's up to Joss. I'm pretty sure that Feige thinks hiring Joss was the absolute best decision he's made as a movie producer, and Feige has been on a pretty good run as far as decision making goes. (Top job at Disney is open. Feige's name has been mentioned. I hope he's not interested. My guess is he knows the job he has now is the best job he could ever have.)

With Belwether Joss has shown that he is actively working against being sucked into the Hollywood machine. He also said that working with Marvel was collaborative, that they supported him every step of the way. It does seem like he should be able find a way to continue with Marvel and never lose sight of Joss.

@ D-e-f-: 'The Other' (Alexis Denisof) is the robed creature at the beginning who speaks with Loki and at the end who speaks with Thanos. (One set of rumours suggests The Other is a character from the comics known as Annihulus, though that's a bit of an odd conclusion since Annihulus lives in an antimatter universe, and well, I'm pretty sure all those aliens were just plain matter.) I certainly saw no clues to his Denisofness.
Saw The Avengers at the tale end (heh) of the marathon on Thursday; going to see it again Sunday night. Will see it in 3D next weekend probably, for the wow factor.

I reserve the right to see it anytime the mood strikes until it departs the big screen. Can't stop thinking about it, and waiting three days for a rescreening has been remarkably painful. I don't think this will beat out my Serenity record (nine - not counting the six CSTS screenings to date), but it just might come darn close.
I was impressed by how well and evenly Joss's script helped us get to know each of the Avengers individually. With that many co-leads there was a risk that the plot would center on one or two, with the others almost serving as supporting roles / foils. That wasn't the case with Joss's script -- we got to know each character individually, and that made their interactions all the more fun.

Great movie.
@Illy I'm still not entirely sure if I like that scene more or less when the old man stands up, refusing to kneel before Loki. It's certainly an interesting idea but it simply feels a little out of place to me. The young people all kneeling before the villain and the old man who has probably been there once before refusing to let it happen again. "There will always be men like you" is a cool line but maybe it's because of the not so subtle historical implications that it feels off.

Sidenote: suffering through 3D is far more acceptable than suffering through horrible German dubbing ;) ... luckily I found two theaters that showed the English version in my area. Even though it meant I had to ride trains for three hours ;)

----

On Coulson being dead or alive: The first time I simply thought he was dead and then came here reading the speculation about him being alive and Fury lying to get the Avengers motivated. The second time through, I tried to pay extra attention to how he passes out. I just don't see how he could be alive from the way the scene was shot and edited. He signs out mid-sentence and just sits there totally still with Fury taking a step back and taking a deep breath in. It's either totally meant to simply fool us and make it as believable as possible or he is just plain dead. When Fury says "Agent Coulson is down" over the radio, everybody reacts like it implies he's gone. Someone "is down" can imply that the person is merely wounded or straight up dead but every time I saw it I read everything as -> dead. I think if Fury lied about the cards AND him being dead, that would just be a little too crazy. Also, if he turned up alive in a later, it would diminish his "death" in this movie, in my opinion.

But enough with the critical thinking: how come nobody really talked about the opening yet? I love the no-nonsense scene in the underground lab. You meet the side characters, get introduced to their roles and then things go apesh!t immediately. Loki shows up and trashes the place, showing us "that dude is bad news, yo!". Plus, it shows us how his magic stick works, setting up the "performance issues" joke for Stark towards the end. Also, as someone pointed out in the earlier threads, that sequence is totally an homage to Sunnydale collapsing in on itself in "Chosen".

Not one dull moment in the entire movie.
Having now read some of the earlier threads I would add that I did laugh out loud at the Budapest line and I think a few other people did in my theatre.

I didn't walk out of The Avengers quite as excited as I expected, but it wasn't disappointment. I can't stop thinking about the movie and I want to be as familiar with it as I am with Once More With Feeling, almost able to play it back in my head. In contrast, with a movie like Iron Man I'd rather give it enough time that I can forget some of it to be able enjoy it again.
Awesome, awesome, and awesome. Amazing things have already been touched on.

One thing I noticed, and I'm not sure if I love it or hate it, is Joss' apparent use of previously-used Joss lines. Examples:

"Trying to get me back in the world." Sounded very "-verse"-esque.

"Pretty spry for a _____."

Sunnydale, I mean "The Lab" collapsing in on itself...

And a bunch of others. Is Joss repeating himself on purpose here, as a wink to us fans (or some other reason?), or was it unintentional?

Missed some explanation about:

1. How Thor got to Earth? Wasn't he trapped?
2. How Hulk can control himself mostly at the end?
3. Alien baddies are controlled by mothership? Did I miss that?
4. Would have liked more on Cap's feelings about the loss of his girl from his movie. Isn't there supposed to be some kind of thing with her daughter/granddaughter?
5. Thor came all the way to Earth and didn't even stop by to say "hello" to Natalie Portman?
6. After Hulk umm "smashes" Loki at the end, we leave Loki for quite some time. Are you really telling me that Loki would still be there just hanging out in Tony's apartment waiting to be captured?

These are REALLY nitpicking to find something wrong. I assume they'll deal with many of these things in the characters' stand alone movies. Joss did a freaking amazing job, and we're going to go see it again and again and again.
This movie surpassed my expectations. And those were mighty high after the gushing from over sees.

I'm still in shock, or rather awe.

The Hulk and Iron Man at the end, being all noble.
@D-e-f-
Wow, 3 hour trip to go to the movies - that's what I call dedication :) I will never, ever watch the German dubbed version :D I gotta tell you, I was a bit worried I wouldn't be able to see it on the big screen - I was so relieved when I saw that they are showing it in English, even if it's in 3D. But I still do hope that it will also pop up in another cinema, and then 2D.. I want to see it again but I just can't afford to watch it another time in 3D.

And yes, when the old man stood up, I also thought, ok the tone is changing - but I still feel iffy about it. As if only those who witnessed that time have learned from it, but not the following generations.
But yes, let's get back to discussing the AWESOMENESS that is Joss :D

So, with the possibility of him doing the other Avengers movies, I feel somewhat torn inside. On the one hand, I really want to see more of this. I am so happy for Joss! On the other, I really miss seeing his work on the small screen. Having a new Whedon show on TV would be heaven! What do you guys think?
Speaking as a non-German who likes visiting Germany, that scene fell a tiny bit flat for me too. I could see what it was aiming for, but the audience assumptions/shorthand it was relying on annoyed me. Just a little.

[ edited by skittledog on 2012-05-05 14:23 ]
I'm really glad we got to see Pepper in this. Loved Joss' version of her since it was painful to see her as a shrill harpy in IM2. And I loved that her did not put her in a pencil skirt she could not walk in or stilettos that were a ridiculous height!
I don't get how Marvel couldn't get Natalie Portman in this movie. Don't they sign several movie deals at once? If they couldn't sign her for multiple movies, they should've gone with a different actress. What are they going to do now, cast someone else on Thor 2? One thing I hate the most about Nolan's Batman movies is the fact that Rachel was re-cast although I love Maggie Gyllenhaal a lot.

I hate the fact that it is not explained how Thor could travel to Earth. I think there was a line that Loki said that could explain it, but I don't remember it that well.

Regarding Hulk being in control, I thought it was normal. At the end of "The Incredible Hulk" we saw Banner working on to take control. And throughout this movie we got references of how he can stop (or try to and mostly succeed) transforming. When Banner is in control, he transforms willingly. That's why Hulk is more intelligent. It was clear for me.
under rug - Loki asks about how much dark power it took the All Father ... which kinda ruins the whole Midgard is lost to them comment in Thor.

digitlnoize - theory my partner came up with in relation to Hulk's control, he's mindless towards what makes him angry. The first change, he would have been annoyed at Natasha/SHEILD and so mindlessly attacked them. The second, it was the aliens not the others he was angry at.
@digitalnoize..I'll take a stab because I thought of some of these too...Please know that I am paraphrasing what I remember.

1. How Thor got to Earth? Wasn't he trapped?
Loki, upon first seeing Thor, mentioned that Thor must have worked something very dark to get to Earth. In Thor the movie, Loki does mention that there are other ways to travel, a back door, not just the portal.

2. How Hulk can control himself mostly at the end?

This I wasn't sure about it either. And it's the one issue my husband had. I think Joss just wrote it that way. Perhaps, by the end of the movie, even the Hulk knew who he had to SMASH and who he has to NOT SMASH? Friends vs Foe? I'd like to know what others thought.

3. Alien baddies are controlled by mothership? Did I miss that?
Yes, once the mothership was nuked, the aliens fell. Bonus for the Avengers and all of Earth that Iron Man's piloted nuke disabled all the aliens in NYC.

4. Would have liked more on Cap's feelings about the loss of his girl from his movie. Isn't there supposed to be some kind of thing with her daughter/granddaughter?

I thought that Chris Evans conveyed a Capt with a very heavy heart. I think he's my favorite. There seemed to be a lot on his mind that he was not sharing. I kept thinking of my WWII vet grandfather looking at him. I think I was supposed to.

5. Thor came all the way to Earth and didn't even stop by to say "hello" to Natalie Portman?

If Thor worked something dark to get to Earth, through a back door, he may not have wanted to see Portman's character. Thor wanted her safe. If he went to her prior to finding Loki, Loki probably would have followed him. If he saw her at the end of the movie, then he would have delayed Loki's return to Asgard. I think Thor wanted the gods gone from Earth, just like in his own movie.

6. After Hulk umm "smashes" Loki at the end, we leave Loki for quite some time. Are you really telling me that Loki would still be there just hanging out in Tony's apartment waiting to be captured?

I kind of thought that he was still blown away by the major smash down Hulk gave him. I don't think the time on that was very long, just alot happened in the movie.
The first time Banner changes he is somewhat under the influence of Loki's scepter, which has turned them all upside down.

We saw a photo of Natalie Portman and a reference to the character being taken somewhere safe. To the best of my knowledge she returns for Thor 2 but Marvel didn't see a reason to use up one of their films in the deal with her for this movie. I understand that Gwyneth Paltrow is in the movie because Downey pushed for Stark to be clearly in a relationship and not a loner. Thor already has enough context going on with the big bad being his brother.
I agree with hann23. We do see the moment when Loki wakes up. He wasn't just hanging around, he was unconscious.

For the Germany scene, don't forget that part of the purpose was to set up Cap's appearance. It does mean something that he is fighting to defend that crowd, which was different from the last time he was there. (Cap had no problem separating in his mind the people, from the "bullies" that were in power at the time.)

For Coulson, besides the two obvious options (1- is dead, 2- paramedics got him back but Fury lied about "pronouncing"), there is option 3- "Adam" from Buffy. We know the Council is starting to get irritated with Fury. I could easily see another secret project called Deathlok, if you know your Marvel history. Fury would be unaware that his friend was turned into RoboCop, Fury would be livid when he finds out (S Jackson being outraged on screen is a joy forever), and the Avengers would (at first) be suspicious that he *did* know about it.

[ edited by OneTeV on 2012-05-05 15:18 ]
@OneTeV
Maybe I'm being too sensitive, but that whole scene where Cap comes and saves the Germans from Loki just felt soo... how do I say it.. like we need the Americans to come and save us, and can't stand up for ourselves. You get me? It might be I am too sensitive, though.
Sorry, I hope this discussion it not inappropriate, I am fairly new to Whedonesque and I am not a 100% sure whether this is acceptable under movie discussion or not anymore.
I love how the front of the little ship the Black Widow flies in has the same type of nose that Serenity has.
I'm beginning to think I'll just have to wait for the DVD releases for this and Cabin. Sadly, I've no-one to go see the movies with. It's very depressing :(
@Shep

This movie is worth going alone to see it. I did that. Still had a great time!
I really hate going to see movies alone - and besides, I'm kind of ill so I need someone with me to give me a hand at times!
I always go the movies alone. Best way to see 'em.
Yeah, the crowd scene in Stuttgart made me a little uncomfortable too, mostly because I watch a lot of British comedy and that seems to be the only thing anyone ever has to say about Germany: "Hey, did you know you guys had NAZIS?" Skittledog's comment about storytelling shorthand was exactly right. And the "Germany=WWII" shorthand is really tired. Cap's presence justifies/redeems it some (WWII having taken place, like, *yesterday* for him) but not half enough. I mean, the really uncomfortable-making stuff has nothing to do with his character arc-- in fact, happens before he even gets there.

There was also an interesting piece on NPR about what the author felt was the mis-portrayal of Calcutta. It's by Sandip Roy, here: http://www.npr.org/2012/05/03/151854647/watching-the-avengers-in-india-with-a-twist . I'm not sure the author really sticks to his thesis the whole way through, but the fact that he felt compelled to write it at all, I think, means that there is certainly a discussion to be had here.
Shep, go alone! It'll probably be so crowded that it won't make a difference! The whole audience will become one.

Anyway, I finally saw it last night. Absolutely loved it. I wasn't sure during the first half hour, since it was all exposition (I hadn't seen Thor or Captain America, so technically, the exposition was there for me) - but when it got to Stark/Banner and Black Widow/Loki... it really hit me what I was watching. By the time it got to "suit up" and everyone was getting ready, I realised with a jolt that I fully care about and even love each and every one of these characters. It was an amazing feeling. Can't wait to see it again.

It was completely crowded (it was a 2D screening) and my friend and I managed to come first in line! Felt like gods for the two hours we stood there. Got the best seats. Everyone was incredibly enthusiastic, clapped a lot (I missed many of the lines), cheered for Joss, cheered for all of the actors, and most people stayed until the end of the credits (and that, might I add, was the best post-credits scene I have ever seen).

Just two aspects I was disappointed with - one was random-agent-woman (Maria Hill, I'm told) who just struck me as pointless, the only pointless character in the film. And the second one was the Russian scene - as a Russian, I can't handle fake Russian, spoken or written. There was a sign in the street that was written in random Cyrillic, and the language they spoke didn't make much grammatical sense. Although Scarlett did quite admirably.

I was also a bit confused as to why the Hulk could suddenly control himself, but I'm guessing it has to do with voluntarily changing. Any help from people who know a lot more than me about the Marvel universe?
While I'll partially agree that Maria Hill seemed like a bit of wasted time for me, I'll also say that since Phil died in this movie they probably had her in to set her up as his replacement for future films.

Otherwise, there's not a whole lot going on with that character.

And when you say "fake Russian", I think that's everybody. As someone from Texas, it is PAINFUL to listen to most interpretations of the accent. It's chronic and it's insulting. Probably the only people who are OK with portrayals of their accent live in California, and that's probably because they're making the films in the first place.
I know these were sort of addressed above, but I felt the need to clarify.

"1. How Thor got to Earth? Wasn't he trapped?"

As stated above, Loki suggests that their father Odin worked his magic to make it possible. And yeah, there are "back doors."

"2. How Hulk can control himself mostly at the end?"

At the end of the Incredible Hulk, Banner (Ed Norton) has clearly made some key breakthrough with the Hulk. He's meditating in a cabin, and opens his eyes to show that they are green and gamma-fied, and he's giving a mysterious smile. It was meant to be a mystery whether he had unlocked some even darker version of the Hulk (grey hulk?). But now we know... he basically gained the ability to somewhat control his transformations. Which allows him to do awesome Illyria Transformation punches. XD

"3. Alien baddies are controlled by mothership? Did I miss that?"

Yeah, honestly, I don't think that was ever established, nor was it formally part of the Avengers' plan.

"4. Would have liked more on Cap's feelings about the loss of his girl from his movie. Isn't there supposed to be some kind of thing with her daughter/granddaughter?"

Yeah, she has a niece, Sharon Carter, a badass SHIELD agent who was inspired by Aunt Peggy, who will hopefully show up in Cap 2. Sharon's an essential Cap movie character, and the Pepper to Steve's Tony.

"5. Thor came all the way to Earth and didn't even stop by to say "hello" to Natalie Portman?"

He addresses her, makes sure she's okay, but for the sake of movie logic, he focused on saving Midgard from his bro. Plus, Portman's confirmed for Thor 2. I have a feeling Portman's post-Oscar fees ain't cheap!

"6. After Hulk umm "smashes" Loki at the end, we leave Loki for quite some time. Are you really telling me that Loki would still be there just hanging out in Tony's apartment waiting to be captured?"

Well it did give us that wonderful group shot. :D Yeah, I just figured that, by Marvel super healing logic, he had some seriously hardcore injuries, and was slowly recovering from the biggest beatdown in movie history!
Also, throwing something out there... I'm putting down $10 on Clark Gregg as Vision. No one stays dead in Whedon stories, and certainly not in Marvel stories!
Arsenal—that is a brilliant solution and gets my favourite Avenger in. (And leaves out Wonder Man, a character Joss has said he hates.)

I don't think we should worry too much about Loki not getting away while the team was busy, either. That rag doll treatment was easily enough to keep a puny god down.

[ edited by KS on 2012-05-05 18:21 ]
"he basically gained the ability to somewhat control his transformations." - Yes, but that doesn't explain why he couldn't do it the first time he turned. Or why he was so afraid and/or reluctant of turning again. I'm just going to assume it's because he embraced the rage. Otherwise it really doesn't make much sense. I loved the Hulk and everything he did, so I'm not bent on nitpicking this, but it did seem like a big inconsistency, so I wondered if I'd missed anything.
@prettymaryk - I think the difference had to do with a few things. First, the Loki staff was likely affecting him the first time, since it was Loki's plan to get the Hulk to smash. Next, I think Banner took to heart what Stark said about his chest piece being a part of him. Also, Stark showed a lot of faith in Banner, and it might have been the final piece for allowing him the control he shows. There's also the guard commenting on his being awake to direct the fall and his "condition" showing Banner the other part of him is just that, a part of him, especially coming from someone who has seen him just the once.

I feel the controlled transformation was Banner finally feeling in control of his ever present anger, and therefore he has control of the Hulk.
Anyone else think that the beginning with the ground collapsing around the base and Agent Hill escaping in a vehicle while narrowly avoiding being sucked under was eerily reminiscent of the Buffy series finale?
Briancoat - Yes made me think of that too.

Just back from seeing this and was blown away by it, such an a great film. Had all of Joss's great humour and dialogue bit broke at the moment but will try to see it again soon.

PUNY GOD!!!
Was no one else's favorite scene the 2nd one in the credits?
Went for another re-watch and the question I had dangling in our previous thread can now be confirmed.
The fate of the scepter is left dangling. We see it with Natasha, but it's not with Thor when he has Loki and the Tesseract, and they return to Asgard.

And D-e-f-, so glad I read your comment before going. What a good eye. The Schwarma joint was there. The attention to detail, and that was only one of the lines options that they shot for the scene after Tony wakes up.

Loki post Hulk-beatdown. We do hear a lot of moaning from him, so that probably caused a lot of damage, and the time it took for Loki to recuperate, the team was able to close the portal and gather upstairs.

Coulson's "death?". We do hear him stop breathing and his chest stops moving, which I find more relevant than the eye thing. However, he could still be alive, as we don't see the medical team working on him, so we don't know if they were able to revive him. As everyone says, we only have Fury's word about it, and there's the trading card thing.

If he's alive, I hope they only bring him back later into the road, possibly wait until Avengers 2, rather than show him again in the next few solo movies.
Pat32082 It's only in the US version so I didn't get to see it here in the UK.


[ edited by Simon on 2012-05-05 22:52 ]
danregal, I forgot about the staff affecting him - that makes sense, actually.

pat32082, I loved that scene!! The rest of the audience (or the half of them that'd stayed for that long) was laughing hysterically. A guy in front of me stood up and yelled, "And that's Joss Whedon for you!"
gossi, thanks for posting that!
It was hilarious, wasn't it? So Joss, and worth the staying put.
I just saw the movie again today(its my 2nd time seeing it), when I went to the midnight show there were no kids but this one was full of them. The theather was probably 89% full and this is not a busy theater in my town, its just conveniently located to where I live now. Everyone who was in line was going to see The Avengers, some weren't even going to the same showing as me, and there was a showing every 30 minutes(some 2d, some 3d). The first half of the movie I was getting a little worried that the kids weren't into it cause they weren't laughing at the jokes(my midnight show laughed at ALL the right places, it was great.) but once the Hulk came on the scene on the helicarrier they started getting into it. They loved The Hulk. Everyone laughed and clapped at the stuff he did. The kids were really into the movie once the team assembled and when it ended I heard multiple people walking out(yes, before the 2 end credit scenes) saying "That was GREAT".

[ edited by eddy on 2012-05-05 22:03 ]
Thanks Gossi much appreciated :)
I just saw it for the third time. What's lost in terms of audience reaction (not really a whole lot) after the midnight shows (which was ecstatic) is made up for (in my mind) in knowing the little details others picked up on - like the schawarma place in the background when Iron Man crashes into the ground.

"Was no one else's favorite scene the 2nd one in the credits?"

It was mine - though that doesn't diminish many of my other nearly-favorite scenes.

Gossi: Thanks for the link! Some of the detail in that is lost behind people's heads, like Banner looking happy to be there, Black Widow lovingly focused on Hawkeye, who is nonchalantly looking away, and Captain America falling asleep.

I don't really get why people leave movies before the credits are done. Many people left even before the scene where Thanos appeared. I know the credits tend to be long with movies like this, but there is ALWAYS something after Marvel movie credits, and the scenes tend to be important, or at least amusing. This one was pure gold!

ETA: How many of us did the dance of joy and honor in our hearts when Joss's name appeared on screen (not just once, but four times in the star-spangled credits)?

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2012-05-05 22:28 ]
I meant to do the Dance of Joy, but that would mean getting up. So I only did it with my fingers... finger Dance of Joy.

Actually, the 1st time I saw, I almost cried while seeing Joss' name those 4 times, it was just like watching him being announced during SDCC2010 again. So exciting.

[ edited by Numfar PTB on 2012-05-05 22:42 ]
@Shep just go by yourself. I went solo both times. that way you avoid being asked weird questions. ;)

@gossi thanks for posting the post credits scene. makes me wonder how many people don't get that they're at the Schawarma joint and not just some random food place.

one of the lines that I haven't seen mentioned yet:

"I was watching you while you were sleeping"
[awkward pause]
"I mean I was observing you while you were unconscious" (or something to that affect)

couldn't remember Coulson at all from the Iron Man movies but Joss made him (and everyone else) really memorable with lines like that :)

edit: switched names Hill/Coulson for some reason...

[ edited by D-e-f- on 2012-05-05 22:51 ]
Please don't post links to scenes from The Avengers, thank you.
And aside from the 2nd credits scene, the rest of the movie was just amazingly awesome too.

I've only seen the first Iron Man, Captain America, and Norton's Hulk (which I guess sort of counts), and I didn't feel lost, so claps all around to Joss for that, considering that Loki was established in a movie I didn't see.

And no character was wasted. Not even Maria Hill. That's what makes this movie. Joss is character first, and he got us to like them, and care about them, which made the AWESOME action matter.

That's another thing....that whole sequence when the team's together fighting in New York, and the camera just keeps following and finding different members and as they're fighting, and it looks so fluid?

I don't normally notice stuff like that, but that was masterful.

I would've stayed and seen it again if I hadn't had a ride waiting. That was just so fun, and smart and as much as this made me want to watch Thor and Iron Man 2, I'm afraid to almost, because I know they won't be this good.

Thanks, Joss. Jebus, I can't wait to own this thing. And Cabin. And everything else you're making this year.
pat32082, Thor I liked. Iron Man 2... Not so much.
Yeah, gossi? Thor's worth watching?
I just got back from seeing Avengers for the second time (first time where the Ds were 3), and I found it much easier to pick up on details I missed the first time (they do talk fast, and often several things are happening at once on the screen).

And of course this time I stayed for the Shwarma restaurant scene (hilarious, I want that as my screen saver now)!

PS the only thing that would have made the Shwarma scene better is if Joss was in the back ground washing dishes.

[ edited by embers on 2012-05-05 23:17 ]
Well, it will help flesh out The Avengers a bit - it explains why Loki is so in need of delicate cuddling, and it explains why S.H.I.E.L.D. developed the "Phase 2" weapons in Avengers.
I did wonder when Phase 2 was first mentioned that it might refer to Ultron but that was obviously not the case.

And when I came out of the cinema, that Cordy line "here was no part of that, that wasn't fun" came to mind.
I didn't even think of Ultron, Thanos (and the possibilities surrounging him) must have distracted me too much. But thinking about that and the concept of Phase 2, it could work, even without all that drama with Vision, Wonder Man and Hank Pym that come from the comics.

I wonder what's included in those about 40 minutes of movie that Joss had to cut:

We know (they were mentioned in a interview I believe) there are scenes fleshing out Steve Rogers -dificulties - at adapting to the 21st century and a meeting with older Peggy (I assume that line about "things we lost", must have additional meaning to do with those scenes we didn't see).

What else is there. Now I dwell into speculation zone:
- More detailed build up to how Loki teamed up with Thanos? Don't know how that would work, as Thanos reveal was the big final surprise.
- Maybe scenes in Asgard, with them preparing to send Thor to Midgard.
- Hawkguy gathering all those people in such short time?
KS, Vision only makes sense. There's just no screen time for Pym, Wonder Man, Ultron etc. Just skip the middle man, and make Vision someone the audience already CARES about. Go Robocop: make Coulson the soul or brain of Vision, dealing with the limitations of being an android. Its the only way to somehow bring him back, without ruining the importance and consequences of his death.

Besides, Clark Gregg is still under contract. ;)

Of course, my next hope that the cellist would be a certain Witch with hex blasts. :D
Another question for the more Marvel Zombie included among us: Why, why, why, why, why didn't Joss make the fighter pilot who shot at Hulk... Carol Danvers?!?? You wouldn't even have to properly cast her! Just make it a female pilot with the call sign "Warbird" or "Marvel" or something. Lost opportunity to acknowledge the (arguably) leading lady of the Marvel Universe.
Probably because there was no need to include the entire Marvel universe in one movie. There will inevitably be sequels.
It took me three viewings (just had the third) to consciously realize the theme of the movie is sentiment. Almost every character uses the term, and it's what Loki dismisses and mocks the most. But it's in essence what carries the day.
Further clarifications to the earlier explanation 'bout how Thor got to earth: Loki says, "With the Bifröst [bridge] gone, how much dark energy did the All Father have to muster to conjure you here?" That follows on the suggestion in the Thor movie that the Asgardians are so technologically advanced, that ala Arthur C. Clarke, their use of dark energy is akin to magic. What I like is how it's a totally unexplained line, that only someone paying attention (or watching it again) might decipher.

[ edited by Whedonage on 2012-05-06 01:37 ]
"Probably because there was no need to include the entire Marvel universe in one movie. There will inevitably be sequels."

Totally agreed, but: A.) she's Carol Danvers, and she's that damn awesome B.) it would have been a completely harmless wink at the most extreme geeks in the audience. Certainly more subtle than past easter eggs.
Things that made me laugh: Cap so proud of getting the pop culture reference about Flying Monkeys, Hulk going Chuck Jones on Loki, I've met them, It appears to be something running on some form of electricity, I'm working, Doth mother know you weareth her drapes? his first name is Agent, he's adopted, Cap handing $10 to Fury, I was having twelve percent of a moment, Well then son you've got a condition, better clench up Legolas, given that it's a stupid ass decision I've elected to ignore it, You and I remember Budapest very differently, funny things are, I watched you while you slept, He really grows on you, doesn't he? You getting Sleepy?

[ edited by garyyager on 2012-07-30 02:26 ]
Just got home from seeing it for the third time :) One line that I did not get was "He was a cellist" when asked if Coulson was married? Still totally over my head.
The line is "there was a cellist", which Tony learned from the Couslon/Pepper conversation earlier. (The cellist had moved back to Portland.)
I really loved the little Joss moments:
The SHIELD facility caving in looked a lot like Sunnydale caving into the Hell Mouth at the end of Season 7.
The way Black Widow 'borrowed a ride' reminded me of Fray jumping from flying car to flying car to get to where she wanted to go.
When Captain America pulled out the mother board and said it appears to be run on electricity reminded of poor Jayne having do help wounded Kaylee to fix the confusing engine wiring of Serenity before Wash could do his crazy Ivan.

None of these were 'Easter Eggs' but they were such familiar images to me that they just made me happy.

eta: yeah Pepper had said something about Phil's cellist moving to Portland, and then later there was a bit of a conversation where it sounded like Tony was offering Phil a plane trip to Portland (presumably so he could see his cellist). And then finally when Captain America asked if he was married and Tony said... 'there was a cellist'
It was very sweet, but very underplayed.
And it made me cry.

[ edited by embers on 2012-05-06 02:30 ]
You said it yourself, Arsenal:

Totally agreed, but: A.) she's Carol Danvers, and she's that damn awesome


Thus she deserves some decent screen-time when they decide to introduce her, not just wink random cameo of a fighter pilot that succeeds at getting the Hulks attention, but get basically bulldoze-rized by him seconds later.
Well, Danvers has links to Mar-Vell, who has links to Thanos. So...
Oh man. Came out of the movie loving it and now so happy to be able to come back to the internet and not try to avoid spoilers. Though catching up on all the articles I missed re the Avengers has only added to my love as i realize themes and consider different scenes.

Went to a matinee and felt the audience didn't laugh at all the lines (legolas, budapest, his first name is agent, end scene) partly because it was such a young crowd.

The more distance I have from the movie, though, makes me just want to watch it again (even if it's only been 4 hours since watching it). I definitely didn't feel this way with the other movies (save maybe Iron Man 1).
Ty Bix and embers. I had apparently misheard the Pepper/Coulson line earlier so that explains two things for me!

[ edited by Slipping About on 2012-05-06 02:50 ]
So much to love here. I really appreciated that I could follow the fight scenes and they just weren't a bunch of stuff blowing up and cluttering up the screen a la Transformers.

I wish Marvel would give Black Widow her own movie. And let Joss write and direct it.
Still can't get over it!!! Been thinking about it since midnight Thursday. Seeing it again Wednesday. I'm a Whedonitte since '97. First episode of Buffy. Seeing Joss' name stray he'd to a box office record breaker is just Destiny. I knew it would happen. And the fact that it involved some of my favorite movie characters (most notably Captain America) is just amazing!!!
I don't know if it's been mentioned in any of the earlier threads, but it struck me hard how many reflections are in the movie. Thor's reflection when talking to Loki, Loki's reflection when talking to Black Widow, Tony and Bruce's reflections when talking to each other, and more I think. Plus there is Black Widow's reflection in a mirror by the weapons in her first scene and Cap's reflection in a car mirror during the final battle.

All of these were very purposeful. Both in the framing and the lighting. (You have to light the off camera character for them to show up that well in a window). Bruce's reflection when talking to Tony was the only one that seemed perhaps incidental. But Tony's reflection in the same scene was quite purposeful.

Most of the reflections are well placed as metaphorically seeing one's self in the other. I don't know why the Black Widow and Cap reflections in mirrors though. They look cool, but I don't get the motivation. Thoughts?
@bobw1o - I noticed that too. Not smart enough to figure out the deeper meanings. I also noticed the "watcher" scenes. The tail end of a conversation between characters where the camera moves out of the same room and we watch them from afar (through glass). Tony/Bruce in the lab, Thor & (I can't remember) in the helicarrier. There might be more, but these stuck out as on purpose. Not sure what the purpose is though.
Most of the reflections are well placed as metaphorically seeing one's self in the other.
Empathy. Which then goes back to my argument above, that the narrative theme of the movie is sentiment.
World Security Council #1: War isn't won by sentiment, Director.
Nick Fury: No, it's won by soldiers.
Except these soldiers win because of their sentiment (empathy) they discover for one another. Something that Fury actually does get.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2012-05-06 08:17 ]
@danregal - well, honestly, that's classic scene exit strategy. But it's a fair point with all the reflections to have anyone looking through glass and seeing something else could be meaningful.

BTW, It was Coulson (and technically Fury, though I'm not sure he was visible) with Thor. You're heartless not to remember Phil!
I am only human and so can't read all of all three threads, but driving home today (having seen it midnight on Thursday), I realized that there is a brilliant but subtle narrative symmetry in Joss's third act. In Act 3 of Captain America (a script that Joss "punched up"), SHIELD sends Cap to sacrifice himself to stop Hydra, specifically to stop the Red Skull from nuking manhattan. Cap then wakes up and opposes Tony Stark, a man who doesn't trust SHIELD. This rubs Cap the wrong way because of his last impression of them 70 years ago. But it turns out Tony is right -- SHIELD is recommissioning old HYDRA weaponry, and their Shadow Government-y "Council" eventually orders the nuking of Manhattan, all in the name of defense. Tony, Cap's foil, then sacrifices himself to stop it, bringing the history of SHIELD full circle, permanently engendering Iron Man & Captain America, and illustrating how fear without knowledge of history can transform us into the very thing we fight against. Beautiful.

Also, Hulk. For the first time both terrifying and cathartic, just like actual human rage. Hawkeye is a badass, that quiver was so cool, and his form was only bad in that shot because he was aiming at the broad side of a building. Scarlett finally got to act again (I've known since Ghost World). Samuel L. Jackson got to yell properly.

And, as much as I mourn Coulson's death -- his scene, by mimicking Wash, Penny, and Tara to a certain extent, seemed almost an apology and explanation from Joss to us. Did anyone pick up on it? He starts his cool line ("I am a leaf on the wind..."), gets run through, but gets to have the last word, after all. He gets to shoot Loki, finish his badass line("That's what it does"), and tell Nick (and thus, all of us) that it's the only way the plot was going to work. The only way those people would get together is around his death.
Loki's reflection when talking to Natasha is especially interesting to me because, since he's in the cage, which is round, the glass renders his reflection somewhat distorted and grotesque. Apt, as he's the character who mocks and disdains any notion of sentiment (empathy). In that moment, he's savaging the very idea when it comes to her.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2012-05-06 08:51 ]
I swear I saw Jim Starlin's name in the credits. Aside from and Kirby was there any other comic book guys mentioned?
I have a question, as I was changing my screen wallpaper from Dollhouse to Avengers this morning: are ALL the actors from Avengers now Whedonesque actors to be linked here? I mean, we are really moving from the small circle of niche genre (relatively unknown) actors to mega stars who get Oscar nominations? Because it is kinda weird.
Well, have to confess I didn't stop to think about those reflections and I've (ETA: my phone made me type ice for some reason) seen the movie multiple times, might just have to do it another time for this matter. It's fascinating.

@Simon there were about 10 (maybe a few more) comic industry names in the credits, besides Starlin, I remember Bendis, Quesada and George Perez, but there were others.

[ edited by Numfar PTB on 2012-05-06 16:07 ]
Obviously only giving an opinion here, embers, rather than speaking on behalf of the mods (because I have no idea what the official word is on this matter) but I still see 'Whedonesque' actors as being those that have starred in Joss Whedon specific work, rather than just actors he has worked with in projects such as The Avengers. Chris Hemsworth might be Whedonesque material outside of being Thor, due to him starring in Cabin in the Woods, or Chris Renner because of his appearance in Angel, but not so much Robert Downey, Jr. or Mark Ruffalo. Again though, that's just what I've assumed.
Make that 'Jeremy Renner' and that last post makes sense almost entirely... ;)
I've been thinking about the posts upthread about the scene in Germany. I took it as a couple of things.
First, we are in a cultured European city. There are a lot of wealthy people in the crowd. People used to having their own way. But when Loki appears and orders them all to drop to their knees, everyone does. As would happen, it seemed to me, anywhere in the world. To me, it became specifically Germany when the old man stood up and said No. That is a "learning from history" moment. And I think it has more force because it is someone who lived through WWII. And given his example, I expected that others would start to stand, young and old. Instead, of course, as mentioned above, Cpt America comes in to protect people he had, in his mind, been fighting not long ago.

Then I thought about what it would have been like had it been in some other European city. No matter where, people would have kneeled. And anywhere in Europe, once the old man stands up, it would immediately make us think of WWII. and it would have lost that bit of Captain America positioning himself more fully in the 21st C.
Would it have worked if some younger person had stood up instead? To me that would make the audience think of the Arab Spring and you don't want to bring real life happenings into a movie like this.
I guess you're going to end up with Unfortunate Implications wherever you set that scene unless you keep it in the US - imagine a version in an Asian city, or the Middle East, or Africa - it would inevitably appear to be some kind of stereotype. It is just somehow the idea that people elsewhere kneel until a guy with the stars and stripes on him comes in to teach them to stand up for themselves...

(And I do think the old guy undercuts that, and Cap having to be rescued himself by Iron Man improves his implications, and I don't have a major problem with the concept as a whole, but I'm still not keen on the undercurrent assumptions going into the scene.)
Numfar TPB - thanks.

I read an article that criticised the depiction of Calcutta.

Link:
Puppetdoug: Brilliant analysis of the movie. I had the same take on it.

I am at the 10:10 am movie and it's PACKED. The theater really needs to open up another theater for all the people here for this show.

embers: We are in weird territory now, aren't we? Do we really now post things on Robert Downey Jr., Samuel L. Jackson, and Scarlett Johannsen, or should posts just be on them in Joss's projects?

[ edited by Nebula1400 on 2012-05-06 15:18 ]
I finally went to see the film last night and loved it. It was showing (in 2D and 3D) on multiple screens and they were selling out quickly. It's been years since I saw theaters that mobbed.

Favorite audience moment: As Iron Man falls back to Earth, the theater is quiet until a little girl shouts, "Catch him!!!!"

Audience Fail: Everyone else left during the credits. My husband and I were the only people left in the theater for the final post-credits scene, which was exactly what I hoped it would be.
Okay, maguffin question (a.k.a. the Tesseract): I finally watched Thor (gossi was right, it's good). Unless I missed it though, how did the Tesseract get from Odin to Norway in 1942 in Captain America?
I've noticed a trend (which I tweeted about last week), that the # of people aware of post credit scenes decreases as the days go by. Even here, where we only have the 1st post credit scene, as the days went by the ratio of people staying for it and the people who left once the credits began diminished.

When I watched it back on April 27th (our premiere date), about 80% of people stayed for the post credit scene (and about half of that stayed longer expecting something at the end of the credits - which we didn't get), but barely a few days later on Sunday April 29th and also for the following monday, only about 20% or less of the audience stayed for it. Yesterday, only about 10 people stuck around, and 2 of them by accident because the theather dimmed the lights for that scene, and they were still in the room.

[ edited by Numfar PTB on 2012-05-06 16:10 ]
From Newsarama's Captain America 101:

After the prologue scene in the Arctic circle, the film takes us to Tonsberg, Norway in 1943. This same village was seen in the film Thor during a flashback to the time that Frost Giants came from Jotunheim to invade Earth and were only beaten back thanks to the arrival and help of Odin and the armies of Asgard. Which could explain how Tonsberg became the hiding place for the Cosmic Cube AKA the Tesseract AKA the "jewel of Odin." Perhaps Odin lost it during the battle against the Frost Giants on Earth. Or, more likely, he left it there among people he trusted to hide it.

@Lioness (and Illy): I took the scene to be like bank robbers yelling, "Hit the ground or you're dead!" Except for Loki's ego making it "Kneel before Zod or die!". Not so much people wanting to prostrate themselves before Reindeer Games. But I can understand why some people might feel uneasy (like Illy said), it could be poking too close to old wounds.

@PuppetDoug: I mentioned in the 3rd round (lol), I still think Coulson's last line to Loki was meant to show how the "toad-lightning" scene should have been done in the first X-Men film. The fact that it was bad-ass is just the cherry on the sundae.
Ah. Figures I missed it. Thanks, Simon. :-)
Just came back from seeing The Avengers.That was a lot of fun.I loved it across the board.That's really all I can say right this second.

Everyone gets their big moments.The Hulk and Banner really stood out and of course Iron man/Tony.

I'm sad to see Coulson go but he has some of his best stuff from all the marvel films.Kind of ironic since they just introduced him into regular Marvel continuity two weeks ago in Battle Scars # 6.Loved his bit with Pepper.

Joss trademark dialogue and humor was all over this and had my crowd roaring at those moments.To bad Spider-man is at Sony,I could definitly hear him spouting Joss's words

And loved the post credits setup with Thanos.Also the post post credit scene too.lol

This was just an all around fun time at the movies.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2012-05-06 19:13 ]
Favorite audience moment: As Iron Man falls back to Earth, the theater is quiet until a little girl shouts, "Catch him!!!!"
Y'know, $200M is cool and all, but this...
I thought of a flaw! Not really a flaw, but something I wish happened. The movie did an epic job with the number of callback/payoffs, but on second viewing, one that reallllly should have happened - in the final fight, when Iron Man's suit is starting to get down to 40% power, they should have called back the Thor zapping him and supeing up the suit thing...
Although as far as we know, Thor had no idea that happened.
Although I agree, that woulda been a neat moment.

I gather the DVD/Blu-Ray will have a 3+ hour cut, so it might have been in there pre-testing.
I do think that Hulk catching him was just too perfect, this really turned into Hulk's triumph and he didn't need to have his contribution diminished (although Thor figuring that out and powering up Ironman's suit would have been awesome).
Too much greatness to point out, but I was grinning ear-to-ear with the "oner" during the action sequence, with the camera flying through NYC and stopping on each of the heroes. That was incredible.
Overheard behind me before my fourth watch: "It's directed by the guy who did that musical, about the girl from The Guild."
Today I sat down to blog some stuff, sparked by the topics of sentiment, reflections, and that ludicrous NY Times review. Like this thread, spoilers.
Good stuff, b!x.
Such an outstanding film!

Little backstory: I showed up at my usual theater on a Sunday evening an hour early thinking I’d just waltz right in the theater with a few other groups of hardcore fans… then I saw the massive line, a massive line that actually doubled behind me while I waited. This gave me time to read about the global success it’s been enjoying as I’ve been avoiding most news on it to keep the experience as fresh as possible. Guess I’m just use to the things I love being nowhere near this famous and popular.

Thankfully I still got a great seat being by myself and reasonably early. It was so great sharing laughs and shocking moments with the audience. Notably: “He’s adopted.”, “Performance issues?” and so many scenes with the Hulk. I was pleasantly surprised to see how well utilized the Hulk turned out to be. It was superb seeing the Avengers have quiet argumentative moments to grand sweeping fights and triumphs. When the action came it moved at such a brisk pace but never felt rushed which is an incredible achievement. Seeing these characters team up, play off and understand each other like they’d been ready for this moment from the start was epic.

I cannot wait to see this again. Honestly I’d pay the ticket just to see that 2nd post credit scene again.
Saw it last night, here in the UK, so the secret post-credits scene was news to me -looks hilarious from the posts on you-tube (naughty people!).

Loved, loved, loved it. Never had so much fun in the cinema. Even though it was an evening viewing, there were a few kids in there and they loved the Hulk -we had young kids sitting next to us who were squealing with laughter at the Hulk smashing Loki about, I missed the next line, did the Hulk say something?
I've decided to take my 8 year old daughter who's desperate to see it (swept along by the hype & my own excitement, I think!)- hoping it'll be an unforgettable cinema experience for her, what better way than with Joss! ;) Besides, I want to see it again myself!! Can't wait for the DVD of this & CitW so that I can scrutinise them...here's hoping the post credits scene will be on the UK DVD release!!
Upon third viewing, I just realized something great about the writing in the Thanos teaser. You'd have to know the comics to get it, and I'm sure many did, I'm just slow.

The last line from The Other is something to the effect of "To challenge the people of Earth is to court death." Then Thanos turns and smiles.

Why the evil knowing grin? Why is he confident, arrogant even, in the face of impending doom?

To him, "to court Death." is to woo the personification of death. In the comics, Thanos is in love with Death, the physical entity. So the idea of major catastrophe in battling Earth appeals greatly to him as a way to impress.
Also, regarding the reflections:

The shot of Black widow into a mirror at the beginning is the first reflection shot. The shot of Cap in the car mirror at the end is the last reflection shot. It may be that the first is simply to draw the viewer's attention to reflections in the film. The last one may be no more than a bookend.

One or both may have more meaning than that, this just occurred to me as a possibility.

I also forgot there was a Black Widow reflection when she recruits Banner at the beginning. If there's a reflection between Steve and Tony I've forgotten it, but it would be apt.
Just got back from watching it. I still can't believe Joss killed Coulson. I should have known but I can't stop thinking that somehow it's just some trick like the one that Mal pulled on Simon. My favourite part is when Hulk smashing Loki around and when Hulk wake Tony with his roar. Actually my favourite part is every scene with Hulk in it.

My only problem with the movie was that the little children in front of me can't stop screaming and walking around for most the first part of the film. That was really disturbing.

Oh, and CitW is now on censor proses in my country. I'm hoping to see it maybe next week or 2 more weeks. Maybe i can watch it with Avengers back to back.
Saw it last night. Best parts were all the parts with Bruce Banner/The Hulk. Now I want a Hulk movie. With Ruffalo.
Also loved that Tony Stark seems to have found a friend.
The scenes with Stark and Pepper sparkled.
Thank you @bobw1o for the insight into Thanos' reaction in the teaser. The audience went wild at the midnight showing I attended even before Thanos turned and revealed his face, so I knew that there was all kinds of awesome subtext going on that I wasn't privy to.

Upon my second viewing, discovered even more to delight and amaze. Harry Dean Stanton got to say the word "alien" during his cameo. Twice. Stark teasing Hawkeye by calling him Legolas.
Saw the midnight showing Thursday night/Friday morning. Saw it again at 4:20 Friday afternoon. Seeing it again today at 5.

Yeah, I am kinda in love with this movie.
I skimmed the other threads for key words and didn't catch it, but did anyone recall if that one scene of Black Widow not looking as something exploded behind her ended up in the actual movie at any point? I wonder if that was a deleted scene, an alternate one, or they just thought "hey, if we're filming explosions anyway how about we film from another angle for the trailer?"

And in terms of other recurring Whedon tropes, he did that thing again where he shows people reacting to something before revealing that a character is doing something they don't realize. (When Banner grabs the spear thingie it's basically like River with the tree branch/gun. And I swear that happened at least one other time.)
Hmm, come to think of it, I don't recall seeing that scene. (Of Black Widow, that you mentioned)

I like that trope. It played so well in that scene. Particularly because of the escalation of the fight leading up to it.
Had plans to see it Saturday. Thursday night a friend invited me to see it with him on Friday, so I went. This means Friday, then Saturday... now I have plans to see it on Tuesday, and Thursday...

It's going to be a busy -- but awesome -- week.
Anyone else find it odd that, due to chance and bizarre turns of fortune, two different movies with surprise cameos by members of the cast of the original Alien came out a month apart?

...With a (supposed) prequel to Alien coming out in another couple of months?

If I see Veronica Cartwright or John Hurt or Tom Skerritt, or a holographic Yaphet Kotto, pulling a surprise cameo in another movie between now and when Prometheus is released, I'll know there's some kind of wacky conspiracy going on.
The One True b!X, great blog post.

I also don't think Coulson died, but that it was a ploy by Fury to get the Avengers to team-up.

Can anybody tell me why the Hulk would be out of control and chasing Black Widow at the beginning , but be in control enough to take orders from Cap Am by the end? That was the only thing that really bothered me. I know, go figure.
Anybody else have their wife make them drive around looking for a shawarma joint after the movie?...Please raise your hand...Come on! I can't be the only guy...
Thanks, B!x. That works for me.
I've had some time to think about this Hulk thing. The Badass Digest post is reasonable and makes sense as to why the Hulk-outs are different. Now tell me please, because I just don't know all that much of this mythology, why were all the other Avengers so sure he would be in control the second time when they were so terrified of him losing control the first time? Does he have a history of this differentiated behavior due to circumstances that they would all know about?

I think that is what struck the false note. It was like, without discussion or any indication that they had new information about him, they all suddenly were taking it for granted that he could Hulk-out but keep it under control to the point of taking orders in the new circumstances. I know this is a minor thing in a really fun and entertaining movie, but I did find it a niggling distraction during the whole last part of the movie. We're going again next week so I want to understand it so it will cease to be a distraction. Thanks for your patience.
My sense of that is that once Banner showed up just like Stark kept saying he would, they up and went with Stark's belief and trust in Banner/Hulk. Not to mention that the second transformation was pretty obviously a deliberate and controlled choice on Banner's part.
I just got that "We believe this can work because it HAS to work" feeling. They were desperate.
I agree with jcs, with maybe an added 'well there's more of the bad guys to smash than there are of us, so odds are... ' kind of thing.

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