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Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"You give it up for the Yorkie?"
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May 06 2012

(SPOILER) 10 lessons we learned from The Avengers movie. Number one - "Marvel needs all their properties back".

I agree particularly with one point - the bar has been set very high.

I also agree about the Hulk-outs. I went to the midnight showing last Thursday and our theater was filled completely. Those Hulk bits (full of classic Joss humor) in the last half hour were met with deafening laughter and applause. Best moviegoing experience ever.

[ edited by WhatsAStevedore on 2012-05-06 07:50 ]
Sony will never let Spidey go, and they'll never allow him to be co-financed/owned/cameo.

They fought so hard to get him, and he has made them so much money. Only if they get into serious financial trouble will Disney have any chance of recovering him. Same for X-Men.
sigh i was thinking No.1 just the other day... if only it could happen... would be soooo cool to see the events in various films reference each other. Even small things like a new report of something that happened in another film. Or brief character cameos.
Last time I looked, Sony were in serious financial trouble so you never know.
Really? Well, that's the only way I can see it happening.
Buffy is so very completely girl!Spider-Man. In fact, as much as I enjoy the Raimi movies and no matter how good the reboot is, nothing will approach Buffy in its perfection as a realization of Spidey in televisual glory.
Theoretically speaking, if Marvel could get all of their comic properties back under their roof for movies, they could make plots even more advanced and far-reaching than The Avengers project. They could have intertwining story threads across all movies (Spidey, Avengers heroes, X-Men movies, etc.) eventually culminating in an even larger fictionally global event like the Civil War, Onslaught, and other types of summer comic events except translated more thoroughly to the big screen. The tie-in novelty would probably wear off for most people by that point though unless they did a spectacular job of maintaining the individual integrity of each franchise as well as creating a compelling threat to draw them all together.

It probably won't happen, but it would be cool to see attempted if it did.
If Marvel were going to go the route of getting all their properties back under one roof, thereby allowing a live action Marvel Universe proper, featuring the Avengers, Spidey and the X-Men as a whole, then I would hope that they would attempt to create something for television, rather than just movies.

The Marvel Universe is too vast a place to limit to just movies. I always said that there was no end to the potential of creating a number of intertwined television series, each one featuring a corner of the MU but crossing over in the same way that the comics do. Sure, it would be one hell of an undertaking and far from easy to do, but these movies have shown that it's possible and that there is an audience for the story. Can you imagine a weekly Spider-Man show with Joss at the helm? One where any of the Avengers or X-Men were free to appear at any time the writers chose? Has to happen one day, doesn't it?
This whole vision of exponentially expanding the cinematic marvel universe would only work if they had someone at least half as talented and perfect for the job as Joss on additional movies. That's going to be very hard to do. Especially with an expanding number of films.

This movie shows just how good a superhero movie can be. You really can have it all. Great action, writing, depth in characters, sense of humor, acting, special effects, and on and on.

The upside? We got the Avengers movie we all dreamed of and more. (And I got a new favorite movie ever.) The downside? The bar has been set so high that the mediocre entries in the universe will be all the more unsatisfying.

Of course, I think the upside far outweighs the downside. But I'm a little skeptical that the success of this movie can be repeated (or even approached) multiple times a year, or even once a year or decade.

I'd love to be proven wrong though.

[ edited by Squishy on 2012-05-06 14:58 ]
What FiveHorizons and Squishy said. The danger is when studio execs want to throw in characters just to throw them in (i.e. X-Men3), instead of when they are needed for plot/character development.
I disagree with #3. One of the reasons Avengers worked was continuity; having the same actors occupying these roles made the idea of a group film more appealing. In order to have a Justice League film work, they would have needed to establish something similar. As iconic as the current Batman trilogy has become, it would be extremely difficult to create a Justice League film without the same actors involved (since Christian Bale won't be returning after The Dark Knight rises).

(And yes, I did take the different Hulks into account. But honestly, the Hulk isn't a primary force in the Avengers. Batman and Superman are the equivalents of Iron Man and Captain America in many respects; it would be a lot harder to replace a leader than it would be to replace a secondary character.)
I would go even further, deepgirl187, the thing that makes Avengers work isn't just that they are the same actors but that some of those actors include Robert Downey, Jr. , Samuel Jackson, and Scarlett Johansson (actors with real box office pull no matter how small or large the movie is). I think a lot of people (people who don't care about comics or super heroes) just wanted to see big name star interacting in this dynamic.

Joss had said that he hadn't seen such a roaster of A list stars since the disaster movies of old, and I think he is right. So I'm guessing that for The Justice League to work they have to have established recognizable stars in most of those roles. Although, now that I think about it, X-men had that to a pretty great extent, and did it break box office records?
I would love to have all the Marvel properties back at Marvel/Disney for one reason:

I want the Scarlet Witch as an Avenger.

I grew up reading my Dad's Avengers comics, particularly the famous Perez/Busik run where the Scarlet Witch was a predominant character. I liked her a lot, I loved Perez's redesign of her costume, and I liked the romantic conflict with her, Wonder Man, and the Vision.

I'm not going to get into what Marvel did to her character, because that would be a ten page rant, but I'd love to see her as an Avenger written by Joss Whedon. Because, as cool as the Black Widow is, the movie team needs more women.

Just one problem with that, the rights to the Scarlet Witch character are owned by Fox as part of their X-Men Deal. Which yes, Wanda is a mutant and Magneto's daughter, but until House of M she was always an Avenger first and foremost. Sure having other characters cross over and meet would be cool, especially a Hulk VS The Thing fight would be awesome, but I'd be happy with just Wanda Maximoff on the team.
Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch are available to both Marvel Studios and 20th Century Fox, Elf.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/movies/news/a377818/scarlet-witch-quicksilver-could-appear-in-avengers-x-men.html
Thanks Five Horizons, that's really good to know. Last time I checked they were still at Fox. Well, hopefully Wanda might make an appearance.
Amen to that. Love Scarlet Witch. Also love the Vision. And Jarvis. I kinda wish they hand't made Jarvis into a machine.
I must admit I like the twist of Jarvis being an AI for Tony. It sort of fits the movie-verse Tony who isn't the most fond of human contact.
This could all blow up in Marvel's face if future movies aren't as great as The Avengers is. There are many talented writers and directors out there, but few - if any - can hold a candle to Joss. The bar has been raised for future Marvel (AND DC) movies, but it may be too high up for anyone but Joss to reach.
I would love the Scarlet Witch in with the Avengers as well -- be nice as well if the Vision could come along.

Chris Evans indeed has chops -- this is the Captain America, the savvy soldier who's been a pawn but knows how to focus his strengths and others on the present danger, how to get others to focus & listen. Absolutely classic and contemporary Cap, very sweetly handled.

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