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Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
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May 12 2012

Marvel needs to re-hire Joss Whedon for The Avengers 2 , says Matt Goldberg of Collider.com. No spoilers in this that I noticed.

Ok, we've officialy gotten photos of Joss playing with the shield and the bow. Now I want to see him playing with the Hammer, and trying on Widow's bracelets.
How about with the eye-patch?
There's a picture somewhere of him with an Iron Man arm, I think.

[ edited by wasabi17 on 2012-05-12 18:44 ]
In the comments to this article, people brought up Joss writing the script but leaving directing to someone else.

If I had a wish as a Joss fan, I think it's that: Joss gets to bring his talent to Avengers 2's story, and he can get more time working on the projects he feels most invested in.
Sometimes Joss scripts with other directors work great. Other times you get Buffy the movie or Aliens 3
Honestly, I will not be so gung-ho to see Avengers 2 if Joss isn't both writer and director.

It's as simple as that!
Well, if we learned one thing, if a director does not fully understand a joss script it is much better, if it is no joss script at all. Just take the dialogs from alien 3 and play them different in your head, and you know what I mean.
Seconding what Ronald said. Before this project really got going, a lot of folks here were hoping that this'd be massively successful and enable Joss more freedom and funds to go after his creator-owned properties, rather than become a master of adaptations. I know a lot of Marvel/superhero/Avengers fanboys & girls will be clamoring for him to take the offer on Avengers 2 (and he should at least be invited to that party), but I'd rather see more original Joss material. Loved Avengers, but, yeah--satisfied with what we got, not terribly invested in the team franchise beyond this.

If he has the time to contribute to Avengers 2 script-wise, awesome, but truthfully, I'm more interested in seeing strong follow-ups to some of the individual characters' films (I loved Thor--it had a ridiculous amount of charm and probably the strongest overall cast in terms of lead, supporting, and antagonist characters--and wish Kenneth Branagh was returning to direct...did they at least sign Natalie Portman to a second film?). Iron Man 3 needs to make up for Iron Man 2 (though Stark's role in Avengers kind of did) and I'm interested in where they're heading next with Steve Rogers in a modern day setting (even though Captain America is my least-favorite among the Avengers headliners and the animated Ultimate Avengers DVD films already went there). I dunno if we need another Hulk movie, but since Mark Ruffalo was awesome and I like this take on Banner best (and since they've signed the guy for six films!), I'm on board.

I can see Joss needing to pepper his career with a giant crowd-pleasing, huge-grossing mainstream flick--maybe every third or fourth film, something like that--but I hope he does new stuff more often than not.
It's nice that everyone is clamoring for Joss to do the sequel, but he's said he wants to get away from playing with other peoples' characters and I really hope he sticks to that. I'd much rather see something new and original from Joss (or Serenity 2), than just more Avengers. (Basically what Kris just said.)
I want him for Avengers 2.
How about a compromise? Joss writes and shoots Avengers II over a weekend in his house?

Of course, depending on the final battle scene Joss may have to then build a new house....
Now I want to see him playing with the Hammer

As long as it is Thor's and not Captain Hammer's
@symbiotics: Oooh, zing!
Avengers (actors) cameos in DH2 anyone?
Hilarious, symbiotics!

I want Joss for the Avengers sequel. They should pay him what it takes to make it happen.
@symbiotics, I set em up, you knock em down.

@kris, Natalie's under contract, but has been (justifiably) throwing her muscle around, Ed Norton-style, over Marvel refusing to hire Patty Jenkins for Thor 2.

The Marvel fan in me is overtaking the Whedon fan, because I fear having more superhero projects from people who aren't fans, aren't intimately familiar with the medium, and don't have passion for the material. Joss is that special combination of incredibly talented master of genre filmmaking, and someone who knows superhero comics.
Yeah, I'm not quite as interested if Joss is only writing and someone else is directing. Unless it's someone like Drew Goddard, who has worked with Joss and then he is almost co-directing the movie, often on set. So involved enough for it to be a good movie but not too involved that he can't work on other properties.

Also because of the reveal of the villain at the end of Avengers was apparently Joss' idea and apparently one of his favorite villains from one of his favorite Avengers comics, I really want to see Joss' take in Avengers 2.

Also while I would love to see Joss make more original material, a big paycheck on Avengers 2 could help fund more original material.
It would be fun if Disney persuaded Joss to direct Avengers 2 by agreeing to fund some of his original ideas.

I personally quite want him to write a Black Widow film, if there is one. Without Joss there would be the danger of her being rewritten as a badass character-type rather than as a badass character.
I don't want him to do it again. Not that I didn't love it, nor that I think it would be any less awesome... but I feel like he's made such a strong mark in this story, it's time to move on to other projects.
While standing with what I said above, I think I would be really excited about an Avengers 2 in which Joss at least wrote the script.

I think Joss's most jaw-dropping moments have been when he has had the time to set up characters and plots, only to come out with a shocking twist that is both totally unexpected and completely-logical-in-retrospect, that drives the plot and characters forward and has us burning to know what comea next. He has had the time to do this in his TV series, and in Serenity which was a sequel to a TV series.

The Avengers, while thrilling and funny and sparkly, also
has less of his "stamp" than his other recent work (such as Cabin in the Woods). This wasn't only due to the big companies' involvement and expectations, but also the limitations that come with adopting long-loved characters and an established franchise.

Joss has progressed from premier Script Doctor to premier Franchise Doctor. Whether it's via Avengers 2 or his own properties, I can't wait to see him bring more "Joss" to the masses!
Sometimes Joss scripts with other directors work great. Other times you get Buffy the movie or Aliens 3

I agree with QingTing. The first X-men movie is a prime example of both possibilities, as the lines that got the best laughs and the worst groans were both Joss lines, if I'm not mistaken.

When Cyclops asked Wolverine if it was really him and not Mystique in disguise, Wolverine's "You're a dick" line helped make the character.

But Storm's "You know what happens to a toad when it gets struck by lightning? Same as everything else" line fell with such a thud, it's widely regarded as Joss' biggest mistake in that movie. But any Whedonite would know that it was a nonchalant, mood-flipping quip, meant for Buffy-esque delivery, and Bryan Singer set it up and directed that scene all wrong for that line. Either he should have changed the line, or made the scene work with it. I was so pissed every time people would bring up that line and blame Joss as if he were a bad writer. Now I just wanna find every message board post decrying it and reply, "NOW DO YOU GET IT? IT WAS SINGER'S FAULT!AND DO YOU WANT FRIES WITH YOUR CROW??"


[ edited by viewingfigures on 2012-05-13 08:18 ]
Arsenal said:
"@kris, Natalie's under contract, but has been (justifiably) throwing her muscle around, Ed Norton-style, over Marvel refusing to hire Patty Jenkins for Thor 2."

I just read up on that a bit--it sounds like Patty Jenkins (director of the Charlize Theron/Christina Ricci film Monster--just saw it a few months back, incredible/gut-wrenching stuff) opted out due to creative differences with Marvel Films ? She admitted to not being big on visuals (as much as she appreciates them--citing David Fincher as a very visual director whom she admires), she's much more concentrated on characters. Shame Marvel is pushing that, as I thought the first Thor had some great character work--it worked because the characters were three dimensional, fun, and compelling, even with many of them larger-than-life. She could probably pull off the visuals, it doesn't have go be Avengers-sized in scope. But I guess Marvel's not willing to risk it and go a little experimental with Thor 2, too much $$$ riding on it.

Anyway, it sounds like the parting of ways was amicable (and they've now hired an accomplished TV director on, a guy who's worked on a ton of great shows, especially HBO & AMC material), so I don't know why Portman would be at bat for Jenkins. Hopefully she's careful and doesn't end up at a crossroads with the studio.

Coming back down to earth for a minute though...if Joss does stick with the Avengers franchise long-term and maybe even does a lot more superhero or non-superhero adaptation work (though he said in his recent post on here that he's looking forward to Much Ado, Dr. Horrible 2, and Wastelanders), it not like it's gonna deprive us of being able to see tons of good television and film. There're dozens of incredible directors and showrunners out there, I have lotsa favorites to follow. Having Joss as the creative force behind lots of the mainstream stuff I watch wouldn't be so bad.
Reading some of the comments with that article I think a good idea comes up. Whedon writing the script and Brad Bird directing, I think that would be a good team up and allow Whedon more time for his personal projects.
Matt_Fabb - I think the fact that Joss suggested that end scene with the villain reveal, and that he brought in 'verse actors, strongly suggests that he'll be back for The Avengers 2. I read something from Feige where it seemed like they already had an option on him, and didn't Joss say something about said Big Bad being one of his favourites? Why set it up with a personal favourite, in a team you've already talked about being a huge fan of, if you're not going to knock it out of the park, eh?

One can hope, anyhow.
Avengers 2: Directed by Drew Goddard, Screenplay by Drew Goddard and Joss Whedon. MONEY.
I would rather see something new from him. The best he could do with a sequel would be "Zingers! Coherent action! Character arcs that actually make sense!" again. He couldn't do Tara singing while Willow was going down on her, or 40 minutes of reaction to Joyce dying, or DeWitt sending Dominic to the Attic. Didn't we all kind of think The Avengers was the best it could have been? Though I'm not a comic or superhero fan, so...
I must say, I'd rather see something new... but ultimately, what I (or we) want doesn't decide what is going to happen.

It's kind of funny, though, how two years ago Joe Blows Not In The Know were complaining that Marvel hired a "TV guy" to do a Damn Big Superhero Movie (not that Matt Goldberg was among them). Now the same people want to see Joss do every superhero movie until the end of time.

[ edited by Effulgent on 2012-05-13 09:00 ]
You guys mean Alien: Resurrection, not Alien 3 as the film in the Alien franchise Whedon wrote, correct?
I like Joss' original work - but he did Astonishing X-Men for a reason, and he wrote Alien: Resurrection for a reason. He's been able to improve others' work, and make his mark on other franchises and make them better. I don't see how it's a bad thing that he should do Avengers 2.

I'm a huge Joss fan. But I am a huge comic book movie fan, too. And while I love the thought of getting Dr. Horrible 2 and Much Ado...I also want the king of the geeks to take the throne and rule the kingdom. Rule, man! Take the $250 million and make another big damn movie!
I hope Joss writes and directs Avengers 2. I'm guessing by the first post-credits sequence that he wants to do it. I also hope he does lots more original material. I think he'll do that too. I hope if he does more TV shows, they are on cable. Buffy got 7 seasons and Angel got 5 while Firefly and Dollhouse were canceled far too soon. I think either one would have run for years on cable.
As for Storm's line in the original X-Men movie, I recently read an old Joss interview in which he basically blamed it on Halle Berry's delivery. I don't think every bad line delivery in the world should be blamed on the director. Bryan Singer has done a lot of good work, after all.
For the Avengers franchise, I hope Joss makes part 2. Either that, or someone who can write a script in the same 'style' as Joss can (the better of his former ME-writers - some of whom, I remember reading, also helped him on The Avengers a bit). This seems necessary to continuate the feel of the story and these characters in another movie.

As for the option of Joss writing and not directing - I'm with others on that point. It's a big risk. Especially seeing as how we've read that parts of Joss' own script got punched up on-set by him (often in answer to requests by RDJ). Something like that's probably very important to the end result we've seen and enjoyed.

Having said all that, and despite the fact that I love both The Avengers, the marvel universe and (particularly) this movie, The Avengers is not my favorite thing Joss has done. It's an incredible blockbuster, a good movie, a resounding success for Joss and a cathartic experience for this fandom, but at the end of the day it hasn't moved me in the same way Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Serenity, (bits of) Dollhouse or Dr. Horrible did.

I very much prefer Joss using his own world and his own canvas and I especially enjoy when he has the time to build characters and a longer story. He's even more uniquely suited to that task, than he is to writing blockbusters, even if that last one gets him more mainstream recognition.

Of course, in a perfect world, he'd be able to combine all these things - massive blockbusters, independent movies, internet projects, a new television show, comics, musicals and whatever else his creative mind can think of. Here's hoping we get as close to that option as possible.

Because don't get me wrong: if he does end up doing Avengers 2, I'll be excited and lining up to see it, just like I was this time.

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