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May 16 2012

Clark Gregg interview about Avengers and his future with the franchise. Clark Gregg spent an afternoon during a Disney/Marvel press day talking about playing the quietest but not the least heroic of The Avengers characters. Baby spoilers, vague spoilers, but spoilers none the less.

We saw the body, though. Usually, you see the body in comic books, that means the end for the character, save for flashbacks. Winter Soldier and Norman Osborn are the oddities to begin with.
Please do not be deceased, Agent Coulson, merely be unconcscious, Fury lying about your death ...!
Coulson is so going to be the Vision in future films....
@spidyredneckjedi and Jason Todd. I'm also pretty sure they even brought back Uncle Ben at one point too...
Not to mention Superman, the probably biggest comic book death of all time. We saw that body too (hell we even saw the funeral) and he still came back. Jean Grey would be another example. Its really nothing that happens rarely. Seeing a body is no indication for a sticking death in comic books
Spike the Avenger Or in "Buffy," either, for that matter...
The medical team was there within seconds of his apparent demise. They have a flying aircraft carrier. I don't put it beyond Shield to have the technology to revive Coulson even if he did die on-screen.
The TV and movie convention of checking for a pulse, looking up and saying, "He's gone," seems way out of date, given the number of people who have been revived (and sometimes made full recoveries) after complete heart failure for a minute or two.
As much as I love Coulson and Clark Gregg, I really feel that bringing him back would seem cheap.
As long as they played up everyone's reactions on being so heartlessly manipulated by Fury (& Coulson's reaction on Fury ruining his prized possession), it wouldn't feel cheap to me. On the other hand, if they brought him back & glossed over those betrayals, I would be irate.

Also, I can see totally see Tony replacing Phil's card collection with mint, uncut sheets, in his off-hand, kind of dismissive way. & I see unflappable Phil spontaneosly hugging him. It's all very touching.
@Giles, it would depend on how they brought him back. At the very least it would show the lengths of which Fury is willing to manipulate the Avengers.

Here's what I wrote in an earlier thread:

Well he doesn't have to be fully alive or dead. They could use all that wonderfully advanced technology to keep him alive. Iron Man has his heart thingy so why not some bionics for Coulson?

There is speculation that he might return as Vision in future films:
I think his contract calls for 3 more films.
It was Marvel that told Joss "this is what we are going to do" with Coulson, and Joss didn't say die he said pay "some toll".
He was dating a cellist. Fellow Avenger Scarlett Witch apparently played the cello and was married to Vision which gives us another female character.
Yup if Coulson comes back then its very likely that he will be the Vision. Those who dont know that character: Its a powerful android who has the brain patterns of a deceased hero, giving him the ability to feel emotions like a human and he has a human anatomy (though his organs are artificial). He can fly, can shoot powerful energy beams with his eyes and can change the density of his body mass (making himself intangible or extremely massive) and posesses great strength, speed and durability.

And yes he was married to the Scarlet Witch (though since she is Magnetos daughter I think Fox will use her for their X-Men films). if there is a second female superhero it should be Ms.Marvel anyway. She can be the Wonder Woman-kind of character in the team.
It just depends on if they have the time. Characters would need to react to it. I can't see them doing it in Iron Man, Thor, or even Cap, honestly. It's too much of a scene-stealing event. They can bring him back in a SHIELD or Avengers film though.
They're going to need some reason to split the team in the second Avengers movie. Feeling betrayed by Fury's manipulation over Coulson's "death" is a pretty good team-splitter.
Kevin Feige has already revealed that the Scarlet Witch (and Quicksilver) are characters that both 20th Century Fox and Marvel Studios can use for future films:

Kevin Feige Says Both Marvel & Fox Can Use Quicksilver & The Scarlett Witch In 'Avengers' & 'X-Men' Films

I would LOOOVE to see Coulson return as the Vision! If Joss is involved as writer or producer, I'd trust him to make it work.
@Spike the Avenger:

As I've come to understand it Marvel shares the rights to the Scarlette Witch and can use her as long as we sweep the mutant and xmen connections under the rug.

Here's hoping, I feel Coulson-as-Vision is a fantastic idea. I'm seeing Robocop/Illyria level identity and personal issues. It would keep his demise in The Avengers meaningful, and the resurrection would feel earned as Joss might say.
@ KrissyJump - Only in alternate timelines does that happen. Marvel has stayed true to the fact that in the 616 universe, Uncle Ben Parker remains dead. And I was focusing solely on the Marvel Universe, as opposed to DC comics to make my point, because this was a Marvel Comics movie.
Jean Grey is a special case, though, thanks to the Phoenix Force... Colossus, now that was a shocker.
I'm just worried that bringing back Coulson will be the first step in a slippery slope of bringing back anyone that dies. If Coulson comes back, then who's next? Before long, character death will have no meaning and if DEATH has no meaning, then I don't know what will. (Especially in light of the upcoming Thanos arc. Death needs to mean something.)
Quint and Gregg recently had a post-film chat over at Ain't It Cool. Worth a read.

[ edited by Jaymii on 2012-05-16 20:28 ]
Yes but I don't think Coulson died.
@Giles_314- I do think we can trust Joss not to go overboard with the reset-death switch. He tends to appreciate the importance of the finality of death when it comes to storytelling.

And as I said, Coulson as The Vision wouldn't really be Coulson anymore. His death would still carry weight. It might share aspects of Coulson but in general it'd be very Illyria, at least that's how I'd imagine Joss might swing it.
I was just rewatching the first season of Angel. Despite Darla being dead and dusted (until the last 10 minutes), she had a lot of screen time that season. Even if they decide to leave him dead ("I'm getting better." "No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment."), he can still appear in future movies.

[ edited by OneTeV on 2012-05-16 17:36 ]
Coulson not dying would actually a big problem for me regardless of how it's executed. It would suck the impact out of that moment of the movie first and foremost and then you're stuck with a cheap reanimation gimmick or turning Fury into the most manipulative jerk of all time. I'm not sure why that would be a preferable alternative.

And actually, having the only Avenger (Hulk joke aside) of color be the least trustworthy, be displayed as the least useful in terms of skills (which he is in this movie), and in essence display the antithesis of leadership (by having to rely exclusively on manipulation) is just rather... loaded.

I don't mind Fury using manipulation, but faking someone's death is one of those "you don't get trust back" moments.

[ edited by azzers on 2012-05-16 19:15 ]
And now that I think about it, it overly relies on death rather than the act of bravery. If the film portrayed Coulson merely being "almost mortally wounded in vain" through that act of bravery and defiance, do we really think Stark and Rodgers minds wouldn't have crystallized in to the Avengers? Somehow I doubt it. It overly values the result rather than the act. So again, now we're stuck with Fury being unnecessarily manipulative. It's just not good.
I've suggested in another thread that bringing back Coulson, as a pawn of the Council, would mean that Fury actually thought he was dead. Would still cause the Avengers to accuse him of manipulation, which would bring in the drama of the man wrongfully accused.

(And as azzers pointed out, concealing Coulson's survival is a dick enough move that there wouldn't be any doubt about the Council being on the wrong side, in case trying to nuke NYC didn't cement it.)
Well this all happened in one day. In a matter of hours. So I can totally buy into Coulson getting carted off, resuscitation attempts underway as he's being taken, they get his heartbeat back, he slips into a coma...

No way would they (the doctors) have time to tell Fury or the team any of this while The Avengers were fighting off Mischief Gods and Whale Robot Entities. They'd be too busy with trying to continue to save Coulson.

Bottom line: We didn't see his (definitively) dead body. There was no funeral. He's a HUGE fan favorite. I'm thinking he's coming back, in one form or another.
Well, the IMDB thinks he's coming back for the "Nick Fury" movie, at least. Of course, that could be set in the past. Interesting that Agent Coulson is now a character on the current animated version of "Spider-Man" (with Clark Gregg voicing the character).
I understand why peeps would think Coulson not being dead is a cheat, but if it is consistent with the Marvel universe and handled well, I think it would work perfectly.

I am not an expert on Nick Fury but the glimpses I have seen of him over the years is that he very much IS manipulative and secretive. He doesn't just try to brink superheroes together, he tries to control and direct them. He also tries to protect the world from them. In the comics he has lied, cajoled, captured and done whatever he "had to do" to force superhoeroes along the paths he wanted them to travel. Just as with mutants like X-Men, there is distrust of superheroes by the public and especially the government. Fury has to balance all of this. Also, since much of his position has to do with defending against powerful threats that are non-terrestrial, he sees his mission as more important than simple earthly community relations. Fury will manipulate, and force if necessary, anyone to keep earth safe.

Recall, that he kept the advanced weaponry secret from the avengers which caused some dissension. In the comics, Fury keeps entire warehouse with advanced alien technology and weapons secret from the Avengers, the governments, his bosses and even his fellow SHIELD agents.

By the way, I think the role of Agent Maria Hill will be greatly expanded in future movies as she is second in command to Fury. Given Fury's secretiveness, as well as her own strong-willed personality, it is a compicated relationship to say the least. Lots of fertile ground for cinematic development there.
I hadn't heard about an upcoming Nick Fury movie before I read this, and I'm thrilled about it. It would make perfect sense to have Phil Coulson in flashbacks/backstory, but I'm all for RoboAgent (and Vision sounds very cool!). I would rejoice at Fury evily manipulating everyone and keeping Coulson alive forever! I can pretty well guarantee that I'll be buying theater tickets for any and all of these Marvel movies (which isn't true of the Dark Knight, Superman, and/or Spiderman movies).
It's been years since I've been a regular Marvel reader and yeah, Nick Fury is one helluva manipulative, magnificent bastard. If anything, I'd say Jackson's portrayal isn't harsh enough but he hasn't had enough screen time for a proper character arc.

Considering how many characters in the Marvel comics-verse and Jossverse have come back from the dead, it's clear that if Marvel wants to resurrect Agent Coulson, they'll do it. It's up to Joss or whoever is writing the script to make it work.

If they don't bring Coulson back, I hope Clark Gregg will be inundated with work offers in tv and film for years to come.
Punkinpuss, at least we know we'll be seeing Clark Gregg in 'Much Ado About Nothing' (assuming we'll get to see 'Much Ado About Nothing').
I hope Much Ado gets picked up. I love the idea that people will get so confused that the next film from the director of The Avengers is a Shakespeare play!

Jaymii, thanks for the AICN link -- good interview! It brought up the point that because Marvel made Coulson's death a requirement for the script that maybe, just maybe, it's another seed being planted. Hmmmm, I like it.
Coulson as Vision wouldnt be a cheat. Vision is a character of his own not Coulson himself (or Wonder Man in the comics whose brain patterns he got). Coulsons brain patterns only would give him the ability to feel human emotion and to have Coulsons memories but it wouldnt be Coulson himself. he would still be dead. The Illyria comparison is flawed because Vision has a conscience and doesnt have to be taught why he cant go around and kill people and also Vision doesnt think of humans as insects or something. But there is a parallel there of killing one character and bringing that character back as another.

Coulson as Vision would work.

As of the Svarlet Witch and Quicksilver: I know that Fox and Disney both have the rights. But if one of them uses the character then the other studio cant use him. So if Fox uses Wanda or Pietro in the X-Films then Disney cant use them anymore and vice versa. Thats the deal.

Many, many people want Ant-Man and Wasp in the next Avengers film though I am in the minority who believes that the concepts for those characters would not work inthe movie universe. Ant-Man would be too much Season 8 Dawnish and Wasp would be equally silly. I mean come on a giant that will make the film look a Godzilla film and a tiny tinker bell wo zaps people in the ears ? I know they are fan favorites and they were Avengers founding members in the comics but I dont think they would work well in the established film universe.
I've been saying from the moment Fury told them Coulson was dead that it was just a ruse to get the Avengers together. I don't see the problem with them not trusting Fury since it is repeated by different Avengers that he lies. He may be a leader, but isn't he a leader of spies? People like that work of from different standards.

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