This site will work and look better in a browser that supports web standards, but it is accessible to any browser or Internet device.

Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"'How have you been?' 'Rat. You?' 'Dead.' 'Oh.'"
11973 members | you are not logged in | 16 July 2020


July 25 2012

(SPOILER) Discuss Angel & Faith #12. It's the second part of the Orpheus Family Reunion arc.

Bit of a letdown after last month's fantastic issue. The story didn't seem to go anywhere much, just repeating last issue's "issues" (Angel's nonstop apologising to Connor, Faith not trusting Angel, Willow and Angel at each others throats, Connor assuring Angel he is a good parent (hmmm...))and I wasn't a fan of those cute dog-like demons. Quor'toth doesn't appear too scary so far.

Let's hope that it steps up a gear next issue.
Being a habitual Ms.Negative here I am in fact strangely and unexpectedly pleased by this issue of A&F in all its humorously immature glory. It has The Phantom Menace vibe to it, with doggy demons fitting into the roles of Gungans. What gave me the most warm fuzzies was - unexpectedly - Connor's newly discovered status of Hipster Jesus of Quar'Toth - which is a hysterically funny play on Angel's failure at playing God. Willow is good in this issue, and the hints we were given about her upcoming problem of dealing with Quar'Toth flavor of magic are excellent. I even liked Faith's rising paranoia, and Angel's continuous apologizing, as well as Pylean connection. And to finally discover world without shrimp was a nice touch.

[ edited by dorotea on 2012-07-25 18:10 ]
I think I'm in love with this series. No, seriously. I thought it was a brilliant issue, both character and story-wise. This people combination works great and every character had its voice right. I quite liked Christos' use of repeated themes, basically because they are forshadowing the deeper (and darker) layers of character development to come and they let the story breath and develop naturally.

Visually, I expected Quor'Toth to be more volcanic-like. But it's quite gloomy and desolate, a very apt scenery for Angel if you ask me. So it works all the same. Rebecca's making me feel really spoiled with her beautiful and dynamic panels! Kudos.

The final pages show us more of the over-arching plot of the series, which is good though I'm regretting I already had seen those from the preview pages. I think it felt kind of anticlimatic to get them weeks ago just to cap an otherwise super-cool issue.

And actually... I LOVED those dog-like demons! Their phyllosophy and aims as well as their appearance felt unexpected for a land like Quor'Toth but oh so awesome at the same time. I think Christos and Rebecca nailed them. I can't do anything but praise their team work! I want them for Season 10!!! Pretty please?
Interesting that Connor lost his fake memories when the seed was destroyed. I wonder if this has any implications on Dawn and everyone's fake memories of her?

It's nice having Angel, Faith, Connor and Willow working as a small unit. It's the closest the comics have come to resembling the shows so far... Not that they should have to, but it's nice when they do.
Kind of bummed the preview showed the last pages of the issue.
Yeah, now that I read it, I wonder the same thing about Dawn.
But not just the fake memories of her. Her... whole existence is based on magic, isn't it?
I would say Dawn's creation was based on magic, but not her continued existence. Once she's here, she's here.
I thought this issue was really well done. Chris is keeping up the heart staking twists with Dru sinking back into her insanity after pleading “Not again, Angel.” And now we discover Conner’s memories (the happy fake ones) are all gone, which is, again, SUPER sad – but that’s why I love the Buffyverse, nothing is safe.

Also, I don’t know why DH persists on putting out sneak peeks of the last pages, leaving us at a cliffhanger – when 3 weeks ago when we read the teaser – it was the cliff hanger. Bah!
Re: the cliffhanger being teased... I think it's fine. I think that's less of a spoiler than seeing any of Quor'toth.
Wow. I think the conversation between Connor and Angel midway through made this one for me. While I don't necessarily think Angel has been the best father, he's always tried his damnedest to be, and it is so heartwarming to see Connor all grown up acknowledging that. I really really love his character these days. (Anyone else get a Peter Parker vibe from him?)

On top of that, continuity references to the Pylea arc, fantastic dialogue between good characters, and a Quor'toth that completely exceeds my imagination... this is just a fantastic book all around.
I loved the issue! I think the book really does a good job of making Connor likable, which I love. I wasn't one of the fans who hated him on the show, but I thought he could have had more angles to be worked at and made easier to like over time, and I'm glad to see the comics are doing exactly that. Or so I think, anyways. I've always had a soft spot for Connor, full of pity. He's a very strong person, I think, and I respect that.

My favorite line was the one about the world lacking shrimp. It just made me think of Illyria's one line, and I chuckled. And apparently there's someone called The Old One there? I wonder if it's Illyria? I mean, I doubt it, but you never know!
Anybody else get REALLY sad when Connor told Angel that his foster family forgot about him as well. Hear = broken :(
Really loving the arc, and book in general so far. Like the set up they've given for what's going to happen to them if they stay there too long. Just now realized that all four of these characters have EXTREME darkness in them that I'm assuming is going to gradually come to the surface by the end of the arc.
Here's my summary and review. Good issue - not as good as the last one, but it gave us what we needed and made it wicked fun.
Hmm... I definetely felt hints that whoever is holding the hostages will be a character we know! Maybe Illyria?? Perhaps she is holding all these people that believe in 'love' as she is struggling with her own inner turmoil on the subject.

Glad I didn't read the preview - I loved the last few pages, 'buggeration'. Awesome!
'I would say Dawn's creation was based on magic, but not her continued existence. Once she's here, she's here.'

I agree - she's probably like vampires. Their creation requires magic, which is why vampires created after the seed's destruction are zompires that suffer from a borked connection between demon and host. However, once they're made, they don't seem to require that same magical connection, thus Spike, Angel, Drusilla, etc. didn't suddenly turn into zompires when Buffy swung that scythe. I assume Dawn is the same way - she's fine, but if someone else tried to make a being through the same method of energy transformation post-seed, it either wouldn't work, or it would go badly.
Just wanted to add that Willow's producing a bunch of daisies on her first try at fireball reminded me of certain bowl of petunias - Quar'Toth must have a very strong Improbability Field...
Just realized my letter was published in this issue! Was cut down a lot, but I did ramble a lot, so I completely understand. Sooo happy it made the page, and it's in one of my favorite issues so far! I'm TJ, btw, in case anyone is curious as to which letter it is.

[ edited by Fred_Sonja on 2012-07-26 17:52 ]
Quor'toth fell a little flat for me, despite mostly loving the issue. The demons that happen to speak perfect English or turn out to be friendly is kind of done to death now, and for a place `no one goes` or described as `the darkest of the dark worlds`, it wasn't particularly inspired or dark-seeming. I suppose it had to be believable that Holtz could have survived it (and the conversation around him was great stuff), and the visual impression from the rip we saw way back didn't come close to matching up.
I have my copy of Angel & Faith # 12 now too.

Lately,the past few weeks,I haven't been able to get to my comic shop on Wed. and have had to pick up my books on Thursday.Hopfully I'll be able to get back to my normal Wed. pickups soon.

I enjoyed this issue.It's sort of weird seeing Quor'toth after hearing how terrible the place was on the show.There is the argument that it's better to leave this sort of thing to the imagination.On the flip side,it's cool as hell if it can be visualized in a cool way.This is the advantage of the comic book medium.You can do anything you want and not have to worry about reproducing with a budget and real world limitations.If you draw it,it exists.

So with that in mindDOes Quor'toth live up t o how terrible a place it's supposed to be based off what said on the sohw?

Yes,it does.I like the look of it and the different demons.I also liked how Conor has become a legend there due to the passage of time in the demon dimension.

As usual,love the Angel/Connor stuff.

I also enjoyed the Faith/Willow interaction.Faith's trust in Angel is ebbing and it does seem sort of right to have Willow be the voice of reason in there current situation espeically in light of what happened in season 8(Willow was pissed enough at Angel to turn him into a frog briefly) and I'm sure this plot will continue to build in upcoming issues before it comes to a head.

There is lots of discussion on how Connor has lost his fake memories as well as his adoped family due to the loss of magic.(it weird thinking of losing your memories but at the same time sort of remembering them like a old movie you saw a long time ago).For Connor this might be benifical.Almost like losing a crutch he no longer needs anymore which is in some ways is a good thing since it shows how stable he is now since he's created his own life instead of a fake one.He even points that a couple years ago if this had happened,he might of snapped and go back to the unstable bomber in the epsiode,"Home." but at the same time must be hard too.Sort of losing a part of yourself.

And the possible implication that's being speculatyed on in discussions is that this idea is also playing out with Dawn in Buffy.That Xander and Buffy are losing there memories of Dawn and we're seeing that in things like Xander's outburst about not remember where Dawn was and Buffy forgetting about her.

It's interesting speculation anyway.We'll see if there is anything to it eventually.

As for the end of the issue with Pearl,Nash and Whistler robing Giles's place and the aunts catching them?First,I'm really surprised Dark Horse released that as the preview pages since it was the end of the issue cliffhanger.

Second,I can't wait for issue 15 and finding out what the deal is with Whistler.

Ovarall a great issue.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2012-07-26 20:24 ]
Interesting Dawn line from earlier in S9 in retrospect.
"He forgot my birthday."
God please please make this into an animated movie!!!!
Oh, and didn't Xander get unreasonably annoyed when Dawn didn't answer him when he was in the bathroom? Maybe he was worried that she had disappeared...hmm. Curiouser and curiouser!
Oh no! Good point! What if Xander and everyone ARE forgetting Dawnie... or her past at least!? What if she's not real again!? Noooo! A very good thought about the bathroom scene.

Also... I love the puppy demons! They're my favorite demons so far second only to Gachnar!
My review of the issue is now up on my BLOG. Comments are always welcome and I always try to address questions/concerns as best I can.
Calling it now: Connor's going to end up staying in Quor'toth for some measure of time at the end of this arc.

This thread has been closed for new comments.

You need to log in to be able to post comments.
About membership.

joss speaks back home back home back home back home back home