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Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"Oh my god. You teach ethics?"
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August 16 2012

Making Avengers 2 awesome. Empire magazine has some respectful suggestions for the movie - I very much agree with points 1, 3 and 5.

5 nailed it.

I don't think Point 4 is going to be an issue. I think the action/nonaction balance of The Avengers was ideal. Joss has never and will never create work where the action itself is the beating heart of the piece. Of course most sequels in this genre feel they need to amp that up, but I think Joss' priority will be setting a higher standard in the action sequence quality (higher stakes, grander settings), not adding extra action scenes.

Bottom line, he is at 0% risk for Michael Bay-ing it up.
When asked how he would top the first film, he did say "By not trying to. By being smaller. More personal, more painful.

"By being the next thing that should happen to these characters, and not just a rehash of what seemed to work the first time. By having a theme that is completely fresh and organic to itself."

I don't think we need to worry about the action to character ratio.
I do like the article, but it seems to ignore the fact it takes place in a wider universe. I would imagine it's kind of hard to be just a rehash, if all the jigsaw pieces have already changed.
I wouldn't count on Loki playing a central role in Avengers 2, fanboys and fangirls notwithstanding. He's a lot of fun, but Joss has never been much for the Darth Vader style Whack-a-Mole villain, who just keeps popping up no matter what the heroes do. He's also never been much for fanservice (although Stan Lee WILL make his cameo, of course).

Loki might very well show up in Thor 2, but I think Joss will go a different direction for A2.
I'm not sure how I feel about Loki in Avengers 2. I adore the character, and his inclusion in Avengers obviously set him up to be a long term foe. In a way, Avengers acted as Thor 1.5, continuing the storyline from the first movie. My only concern with bringing him back for Avengers 2 is that you're really getting into a juggling act. Thanos is a huge, complex villain. There are a lot of avenues he could pursue, and I'm concerned Loki would get lost in the shuffle.
Loki's presence depends on what they have him do in the interim films. I am really hoping that Loki's "defeat" in Avengers was all part of his master plan to get back to Asgard. He is, after all, the master Trickster. He should be the main player in Thor 2, so we will have to wait and see how his story plays out.
I think Loki being the villian in every movie sounds quite boring (despite how great he was in the other two movies). I also don't think it will be possible to not expand the Avengers a little with future movies. There are too many other possible Avengers out there that could add unique dimensions to the team including different abilities.

But that said, I trust that Joss could pull off anything he wants - big group, small group, action-packed, sedate, what-have-you. I know he'll make the decisions that he feels comfortable with as a storyeller and decisions that are true to the characters. I'm looking forward to whatever he comes up with!
I think expansion character-wise is all right as long as it's done wisely. The point the author made about the X-Men movies is right; by the end they were just throwing characters in for the hell of it.* I think there's a middle ground that can be tread that will allow for the introduction of new characters while still keeping the story coherent.

*Though in the case of X-Men: First Class, I think for the most part the number of characters was handled well; my only problem was Azazel, who if I recall correctly was a villain in his own right, not simply a henchman.
Alot of fans seem to want Loki to pull a Spike and I just think thats incredibly the wrong way to go.
@eddy I guess these fans don't seem to realize that he'd probably lose a lot of what made them love him in the first place. Spike's switch to the good side worked because he has always had other concerns than to be evil for being evil's sake or making some grand statement. Loki had a clear agenda.

The only thing I'd wish is indeed a little less action and more of the "boring" parts - I love those the most. Those very unnecessary action sequences in the new Batman trilogy annoy me a great deal, for example. So when I hear Joss saying "more personal, intimate, painful"--I hope he is not just joking around, that sounds fantastic to me!
First off, Loki is NOT the central villain in Thor 2, Christopher Eccleston as Malekith is the main villain, if anything, Loki will be the secondary villain. And since the film has been said to really focus on Thor's and Jane's relationship this time around, AND you have another main villain, it seems like Loki will be very much a supporting character this go around in Thor.

So, what I would want personally, is for Loki to have some sort of redemption in Thor 2. Be on the bad side again and then at the very last minute, save Thor or Jane or something along those lines.

THEN, with this new sense of redemption, accompany Thor to Earth to help the Aveners against Thanos. Which, if The Other stuck by his word, it would seem Thanos would be very upset at Loki for failing and will "look for him." What better way than to have Loki show up in Avengers, because he does indeed know Thanos more than anyone on that team. He could help them AND it'd be an interesting conflict of seeing Loki either fear Thanos or go back and forth of whether or not to join him again.

If Thanos' inclusion in the film was Joss' idea, why would Joss spend an entire scene with Loki and The Other discussing Thanos and how he will search everywhere for Loki if that's not some sort of foreshadowing, at all?

Loki being a villain in four films? Annoying. Loki being a sort of anti-hero/anti-villain? Fascinating.

Tom Hiddleston, by contract, can appear in 6 Marvel films. Joss has said a few times that he really likes Loki's character. I would not count Loki out yet. In my opinion of course..
Make a Loki movie. Problem solved.
With Thanos as Avengers 2 villain (if we can assume that), Loki's involvement is built in. He's seen worlds Thor and the other Asgardians never even imagined, remember? Including the one Thanos or at least his forces comes from. He has information that might be of vital importance to the survival of Earth, and since he is Loki, he will not give it away for free.
I'm liking this line of thinking. But I too vote for more women on the team. Or more Pepper.

Painful and personal is absolutely the way to go for A2, and Joss is absolutely the man to do it. As we all know. I don't for a second want this to be too close of a metaphor, but the way Empire Strikes Back topped Star Wars was by doing exactly that.
Is everyone forgetting WHO is directing/writing Avengers 2?

If/when Loki is in it, I'm 100% positive Joss will write Loki's role brilliantly, in a way where it won't feel rehashed, repetitive, or boring!

I also think Loki is crucial to the Thanos storyline, and the dynamic between him and the rest of The Avengers will be brilliant.

Bring it on!

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