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August 29 2012

(SPOILER) Discuss Angel & Faith #13. It's the third part of the 'Family Reunion' arc. The Steve Morris cover and the Rebekah Isaacs cover combine to make up one very nice piece of artwork.

Liked this whole arc up until this issue. It just seemed like filler to me, with way too much introspection when they should be fighting. I'm getting sick of the Connor / Angel "I love you, you're my dad, I'm sorry" stuff because it just seems to be the same beat repeated over and over again and now everyone's joining in. It's sappy and out of place. Everyone loves Angel, Angel is an amazing father, Faith would kill everyone to have Angel as a father, blah blah blah. Isn't this dimension supposed to bring out the EVIL in characters? It felt more like a hippie love fest. This isn't giving any new insight into these characters. We get it.

Doesn't time pass different in this dimension? Have they addressed that? It's probably been like years in Earth time by now.

Also, the issue ended in the flattest way possible - exactly the way most readers would think. Willow went dark. It's been publicized, promoted, and featured in the description of the comic (either for this issue or next). It would have been much more interesting if she went Dark halfway through the issue, or if there was SOME sort of different twist.

I feel like the next issue has got to be good, but I'm starting to get fatigued from this plot. They're all just having the same conversations on repeat in a (not really scary at all) Hell dimension. Send Connor back to LA and let's get back to the main plot soon, please.
It's the convenient "Anne" style use of different time passage. It can be years would pass in their time, on Earth just... well, whatever's convenient. Hence how Connor could be gone long enough to be 16 while at most a few weeks passed.
You've got your time point backwards. It's likely only been minutes on Earth since they entered, but hours on Quor'toth. That's why only a few weeks/months on Earth translated into an adolescence for Connor when he was there.
Now this is more like it I was disappointed last issue, because I felt that the "darkest of the dark worlds" wasn't living up to its reputation - it was more like Pylea with its DoggyDemons. This issue showed how bad it really is. The Old One was terrifying and kudos to Rebekah for creating such a memorable demon. I was actually listening to the opening track from the Dark Knight Rises soundtrack for the action scenes in this issue, and the "Bane Chant" worked very well...it really heightened the drama for me I recommend it for those that have the soundtrack

The Whistler scenes were fantastic. I got a shock when he lashed out at Pearl & Nash. I didn't think he had it in him. I have a feeling we will be seeing more of this side of Whistler as the series comes to its climax. Pearl & Nash seemed to be afraid of him...must be bad if those crazies are afraid of him!

Am still liking Sophie and & Lavinia. I thought they would start to annoy me...but hasn't happened yet

The action scenes were really exciting, and I didn't mind the introspection. And I didn't mind the Angel-love. Cos I am all about the Angel-love. In a manly way.

Shut up.
I stand corrected about the time....you're right it would be only a short amount of time on Earth. Still, like apollo 11 says, it still only feels like they will only use the time differences when convenient.
Mark214, what do you mean, when it's convenient? Have they done that? Are they doing that now? No.
I was responding to the comment Apollo11 made so please reference that post. They have done it in the past, such as in Anne (Buffy should have aged greatly in that episode considering the time she spent in the dimension). But what I meant is I am betting there will be no mention of the time differences from this dimension to Earth in this arc or comic (so far there hasn't been unless I've missed it). They will only mention it if it's convenient and releveant to the story. If not, they will just pretend there's no difference.

[ edited by mark214 on 2012-08-29 19:32 ]
Got my summary and review up. I really liked the issue - more than the last one, not as much as the first in the arc.
Comic Book Resources review : ""Angel & Faith" #13 is another solid chapter in a series that has rapidly eclipsed its parent title"

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...review&id=5106
I too am very disappointed with the way the dimension has worked out. Not much of a "darkest of the dark worlds" that no portals exist to because of how bad it is. It does just feel like another side of Pylea with an (admittedly imaginative) Old One thrown in for no particular reason... the "demons who turn out to be English-speaking-and-friendly" trope is wearing a little thin too. (Then we have an Old One that can articulate English also in that dimension... okay.)

I hope to hell that they never try to bring the Wolf, Ram and Hart into the comics as anything but the abstract concept they are after seeing the way this dimension was realised. It's the Gachnar of dimensions. Big overture... etc.

I almost think the problems could've been lessened by having it just be in Pylea. Less excuse for the now rather tedious whining/we-identify/we-love-you loops of late. (Seriously? In the middle of that kind of battle?)
@mark214, what are you talking about? They screw it up many times with the mythology, but time passing in "Anne" and in Quor'Toth weren't any of them. Time passes faster in Quor'Toth, 17 years there (Connor's life) was only 2 weeks maximum on Earth. Exactly the same thing happens in the episode "Anne". Buffy, and Anne, were in the other dimension for, I don't know, an hour? 2 hours? and only minutes, maybe seconds, have passed on Earth, when they came back. Why should Buffy age?

Anne's boyfriend aged because he had spent years, more than 60, in the other dimension. 60 years there equals 24 hours on Earth.
Not enough can be said about Rebekah Isaacs' pencil's. These pages are just vibrant and gorgeous.
This series hasn't disappointed me yet, actually. I thought the inner monologues showed us how the dimension affects those inside of it, thus Angel bonding further with Connor was something highly difficult for them to do. But they are doing it anyways. I think Quor'Toth is a metaphor for the bad personal place Angel's stuck in. If he can overcome his bad feelings just so that Connor knows how much he loves him in the darkest of the dark worlds, he'll be able to do so in Earth with other people, such as himself. Maybe that's where the series is going, who knows?

Besides, the Old One, while visually super-cool and necessary for advancing, twisting and climaxing the plot, also worked as a way to remind me there's some thing out there called Illyria... And I demands some Illyria already!

Frigging great issue, if you asked me! Is it the last Wednesday of September already? No?
Was it just my imagination - or there were some Beta-George like flying fish demons above the bridge in one of the first panels of the issue? Also, Rebekah finally got Angel to look like Angel. (Keeping my fingers crossed.) I liked this issue less than last one but way more than #11 - thankfully the tender and retrospective moments with characters got to be 'more adult'. The whole scene with Angel goading Willow into powering out could have been done a bit more subtly though - and I was a bit annoyed that the rift to Earth turned out to be closer than the other rift to the 'World without shrimp' - unless Willow closed that one. I am very excited to see Dark Willow vs the Old One stand off - just not sure it can be pulled off believably. Last time it took Tara's death to turn that particular switch on - but I suppose Quar'Toth influence is a serious amplifier to one's inner turmoil.
I have my copy of Angel & Faith # 13."Family Reunion Part III of IV."

First of all,I got both covers.Couldn't resist the connecting covers.

As usual,I loved all the Connor and Angel stuff in this issue.Especially Connor telling Angel he loved him.Ilaos think Connor has good insight into Angel's mindset in season 9,I wonder if Connor's thoughts about wishing Angel could let it go rather than the desperate grand gestures and slimmiest hopes that will never work is forshadowing of where Angel's quest to bring back Giles is leading at the end of the season?

I wish Connor could stick around post this arc somewhere as a re-occuring character for the rest of the season.I suspect though he'll part company next issue and return to his life in L.A.I still would love to see him crossover to Buffy at some point one day also.

Also enjoyed the Faith/Angel interaction.

Angel's goading of Willow was tough and the ending I think we all saw coming.The return of Dark Willow.

As for Quor'toth.It's a intersting visual.Not what was in my mind when it was described in season 3.This might be a case where it's better being left to the imagination.Sort of,if you;ve seen one hell dimension,you've seen them all.If they ever showed th visuals of the hell dimension Angel was sent to at the end of season 2 of Buffy,I wonder now if it wouldn't live up to the horror the imagination created.

My favorite stuff was with Whistler,Pearl & Nash and Giles's aunts.Oh man,this is certainly setting up issue 15 and I can't wait for that confortation.I've been waiting for that Angel and Whistler meeting all season.The fact that Whistler scared even the psycho duo says that despite what we've known of Whistler,he's force to be reckoned with.I really want to hear what his plan is.Bring Twilight back?Something else but of simillar goal?Issue 15 is where I suspect those answers will come.

Oh,I continue to enjoy the aunts.

Aslo,too bad Illyria isn't around.Wonder if she knew the old one that this dimension is named after?

Overall,I really liked this issue other than having Quor'toth continue not to really meet my expectations of being such a hellish place.
I loved the issue. I agree that the dimension isn't exactly what I imagined, as we've all agreed before, but I'm over it, and I think everyone else should get over it too. We all had expectations, but they were pretty high, I think. I think it's good enough, and I'm fine with that, seeing as the story and writing is brilliant. And the cliff hanger at the ending! Loved it. Willow was truly kicking ass this issue.
Buffyfantic, I'd say the best depiction of a hell dimension I've seen was probably the short scene showing Dean Winchester being tortured in Hell at the end of season 3 of Supernatural. That actually did give a real impression of being trapped in a place that deserved your fear and hatred. The one complaint I have with this arc is that, as you say, the Quor'Toth? Actually not all that scary!

Otherwise, another really solid issue. Not much I can say that hasn't been said above already. I'm ready for some Whistler backstory now though!
Well,I realize that on T.V. you would be limited on what you can do with something like a hell dimension due to budget.If we had got a season 6 of Angel,the hell dimension would of been more limited than what we saw in Angel:After the Fall.If I remember,Joss said that they would of just used the smashed up Wolfram & Hart set and sort of implied the hellish situation outside since they wouldn't have the budget to go big with that setting.In the comic though,they could go wild due to no limitation of budget.

I don't think Quor'toth in this arc looks bad,just not as terrible as I always imagined it would look.I thought Hell A in After the Fall looked more hellish and terrible.
I used to think that Whistler worked on behalf of the PTB, now I'm think he is a PTB.
@Simon Interesting theory...only problem with that is where was he during Jasmine?

(Of course the boring answer is they couldn't get the the actor, but it would be a bit of a puzzler in continuity)

And of course this storyline brings up the question, what would Whistler's role have been on "Angel" if he had joined the cast instead of Doyle?...
I always imagined the PTB to be like the Greek gods. Full of infighting and factions and not speaking with one voice. Jasmine had her own agenda while others (like Whistler) had theirs.
Heh...I like that. Still hope we never actually see them of where they are based though.
Wow, again, I read "Buffy" and "Spike" ("Dunno. Moon frog?" aside) and wonder if I'm sure I need to be buying these every month and if the stories really need to go on, and then I read Gage and Isaac's "Angel and Faith" and I want it to never ever end. I also get sure that at some point it could be "Buffy" or "Spike" that are getting the great story and great writing. I thought this was an amazing story with gorgeous art that really took us to new places for all the characters. I am SO intrigued by further story about Whistler and how MUCH the writers are willing to upset our former conception of who he was. To me, Gage makes sense where sense was lacking out of Season 8 and sometimes of aspects of BtVS and AtS. And, again, Faith was never a favorite character of mine... and now I'm afraid I find myself falling in love with her a little more every issue. I actually just think the problem with Q'uartoh's representation is that there's so much open space, and Isaac's just needed to give us MORE creatures. Like a Bosch painting, yeah? But I love Isaacs and not Bosch, so I'm not really complaining.
Well, who didn't see that last page coming 2 or 3 issues ago?


Simon: I think Whistler's a demon-level creature, an emmisary, not a Power.

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