Free version of article at Yahoo. (via Robogeek)

Caroline | February 16, 13:46 CET

Article mentions that Jeffrey Bell is directing the finale, not Joss...

Hollowman | February 16, 14:46 CET

The article mentioned that cost wasn't a factor in the decision, yet it also says there are plans for more reality shows. Nothing is cheaper to produce than a reality show and inexplicably that style still ropes in stupid amounts of viewers.

herb | February 16, 15:07 CET

Sorry, but what does "skein" mean?

(First-time poster, btw, long-time lurker, love this site.)

Nea | February 16, 15:24 CET

Apparently it means the same as 'show' - industry jargon.

Caroline | February 16, 15:26 CET

Why did he have to make room for new shows, why cancel a tested show to make room for a new one, don't the majority of new shows on the WB fail?
Or maybe this whole thing was to make the network seem hip and impulsive, "hey, we've been saying great things about this show, it's one of our highest rated shows. Let's cancel it! They'll never see it coming"
Pr*ck

Ghost Spike | February 16, 15:29 CET

Levin said he and Whedon started talking about the show's future a few weeks ago, right around the time of the show's 100th episode party. Conversations about the changing state of the TV business left open the possibility that "Angel" --- despite its creative and ratings strength --- might not be a slam-dunk to return.

I wonder if this is the reason why Joss was being very chummy with the WB people during the cast party...

mchan | February 16, 15:42 CET

I can't wait to see all of these new shows fail miserably, just like Glory Days, Birds of Prey, Tarzan, and Fearless, and then see Jordan Levin tossed out like yesterday's garbage.

Sorry for the bile.

prufrock | February 16, 16:04 CET

'Skein' 'auds' 'sked' 'competish' 'prexy,' the lack of the word 'the' in many places...is this like, 'industry' lingo, or what?

ETA- Ah, I see this has been mentioned above.

[ edited by forcorreo on 2004-02-16 15:20 ]

forcorreo | February 16, 17:17 CET

[ edited by RTADoyle on 2007-10-27 11:36 ]

RTADoyle | February 16, 18:51 CET

It's too bad this stuff couldn't be released directly to DVD. No network, no sponsors.

Ocular | February 16, 19:22 CET

Quick! Someone tell these 'new viewers' that the networks are so concerned about that as soon as they become 'faithful viewers' no one will care about them anymore.....

Rogue Slayer | February 16, 19:31 CET

[ edited by RTADoyle on 2007-10-27 11:36 ]

RTADoyle | February 16, 20:12 CET

Eww, I've never seen a picture of Levin before, what a smarmy looking f**k. How fitting. What does he mean it doesn't repeat well? I could watch these episodes over and over, there's too much to catch if you only see them once. That's the fun of a Whedon show, you might understand the story but there are so many asides and in-jokes and references. And all those comments here on the board the first day talking about how they would probably put on more reality shows and they really are! In the words of Jenny Calendar, "This is insanity!"

marmoset | February 16, 20:15 CET

Yeah, this is ridiculous. I was curious to see what they would come up with to defend this nonsense. Especially after that offical statement where they praise to high heaven and then say it 'deserved' to be cancelled.

And this is the best they can do? New viewers? And they think "Dark Shadows" will do that? They just assume all the Angel fans will watch it, because hey, it's vampires therefore us sheep will tune in, and it will have new viewers that did not watch Angel? Where does this logic come from?

And like Rogue Slayer says, new viewers become regular viewers right? At which point the WB doesn't find them interesting anymore?

And 'it wasn't the money'. Baloney! As someone said, reality tv is the cheapest to make! (And way to go, WB since the reality hype is already starting to go over that hill top) Not to mention the fact that Charmed is no doubt cheaper than Angel too. (Anyone seen those 'special effects'?)

No I'd say it's mostly the money, and some dubious faith in those new shows. You'd think that after the several terrible flops they've made in the past 2 years, they'd see the value of a show with good ratings, a consistent audience and good reviews, ESPECIALLY in these troubled times.

Also interesting how even the official and professional tv news sites quote it as a strange move that comes as a surprise since Angel was basically doing well on all fronts.

No I'm afraid this article did very little to vindicate Mr Levin. And yeah, like Joss pointed out, if it's quality, has good response/reviews/ratings and we're STILL getting cancelled, what the frag are we doing then??

This logic is insane and happenstance, like that of a troll...

[ edited by EdDantes on 2004-02-16 18:24 ]

EdDantes | February 16, 20:23 CET

I had stated that I was going to boycott the WB after this and people, reasonably, pointed out to me that it made no sense to do that and not watch other shows that I liked. I enjoy Smallville and Everwood and I was interested in watching Lost in Space to check it out when it came out but after reading Levin's comments and excuses just got me all fired up again. Why would anyone want to tune into a network and get all invested in a show, become the "unimportant loyal viewer" to just have the show cancelled? It makes no sense to me to cancel the second highest rated, critically acclaimed show yet keep the other aging shows that they mentioned instead. So I might tune in to watch Everwood but I will not be tuning in to anything new they have to offer as long as Levin is in charge of the network.

Firefly Flanatic | February 16, 20:33 CET

You know what I was just thinking - if this show doesn't get picked up is some form or another - watching the remaining 9 episodes is going to feel like Cordy and Angel watching the tape of Doyle in "Your Welcome" sad with a tinge of errie.

Oh this is so hard - it's like losing a member of your family or a friend - no new memories made just old ones to revisit from time to time. Sorry been in fight mode for the last few days and now grief and loss are finally kicking in - I know it's just a TV show but it's something I've invested my valuable time in over the last few years to have it end like this - well it just hurts - to understate it. To have a show have so much power over your life as to cause a sence of emotional loss when it is gone is a credit to the team that created it and brought it in to your life in the first place. :(

RavenU | February 16, 20:34 CET

I feel the same way. Just sad. Everyone was so excited about the upcoming episode looking so funny and having a great time discussing it and then WHAM - everything just changed in an instance. My first thought was how am I going to be able to enjoy the rest of the season.

With Buffy, I knew that Joss Whedon and SMG both were ready to end it and it was time. Joss and crew were no where near ready this time. They did everything asked of them. The ratings were their best ever this season, the acting and writing were still top notch the critics still love the show so I thought, they'd have no reason to get rid of it.

I don't buy Levin's excuses at all because they just don't make any sense. If you have a bunch of older shows and you need to make room for new ones you don't get rid of your second highest rated show you get rid of one of the other older shows. But you honestly don't get rid of any of them when you have a large dedicated fan base.

I don't think they had any intention of keeping Angel after this season. They didn't want it to end the same year as Buffy because they wanted to get some attention for themselves. I feel they ruined the end of Buffy by announcing that they had signed on James Marsters as a regular so when Spike "died" on Buffy it didn't have the same impact it would've if we hadn't known he wouldn't be gone for long.

I honestly feel that Levin has been pissed off since UPN swooped in and saved Buffy and they only kept Angel around because Buffy was still on the air. If they had let Angel go back then, UPN would've snapped that up too. They kept it this final year because UPN, again, most likely would've still wanted it to be the show that replaced Buffy.

I don't feel that these are just TV shows either. I have never in my life gotten so invested in something on TV like I have with all three of Joss Whedon's shows. They have brought me so much enjoyment over these past years that I feel like I am going to be lost. I've felt kind of lost all season with Buffy gone but having Angel still here helped. I'm not looking forward to May at all because it most likely will be the end. I do hope some other network wants the show but it concerned me, again, that an article with quotes from Joss Whedon had no mention of trying to do that. I think he feels sucker punched and is still trying to get his breath back.

Firefly Flanatic | February 16, 20:49 CET

Levin's words are Doublespeak a la Orwell's 1984. They don't make sense yet they are proclaimed with such smarmy smug chutzpah that they'll probably fool most people.

As Buffy and Buffy the First said in Lessons, "it's all about power." Levin has it. Damn this world.

I am steadfast in my nasty hope that all the new shows fail and that the renewed ones slip miserably in the ratings. A girl can dream. Will I get in touch with my nicer self again? Regarding the WB, not likely.

And you know, Angel is not just a tv show. It's art. Feeling real grief at its drippingly, oozingly evil termination is justified.

phlebotinin | February 16, 20:51 CET

Added afterthought: the word 'skein' has to do with yarn, not television. Whoever coined that word in this context should be wrapped up in a skein, and made to eat a dictionary.

Perhaps that's what's most frustrating about this. It's not like Whedon told the WB to kiss off and vindictively refused to listen to criticism. He's made season five more streamlined and cheaper, with several 'bottle' shows encased mostly inside Wolfram & Hart. He's combined the overall season arc with capsule episodes so that they stand alone as well as make sense in a grander scale, so they are rebroadcastable, even out of order. By the way, Whedon's always acted in this manner, but he's been even more particular about it this season, to cater to the network suits. Whedon did everything (to our knowledge) that he was being asked to do in order to keep Angel going, the ratings have improved, he's revitalized the series and solidified it in so many ways, and on top of everything Mutant Enemy has managed despite all these restrictions and obstacles to turn lemons into lemonade and make a lean, mean, Angel machine. The series is better in many ways than it ever has been before (though I hesitate to compare it to the Doyle days which are my personal favorite).

Whedon did what he was told to do. He's penalized anyway. What more could Whedon have possibly done to Angel and still keep the integrity of the show? Perhaps that's why they are dumping Whedon. He's not Wile E. Coyote. Despite Whedon's efforts to meet network suits halfway, the WB made it impossible for him to capture the Road Runner. He followed their directions, but his directions came from Acme and Ajax.

Or maybe the suits just didn't take that left turn at Alberquerque. Not Mutant Enemy's fault. The WB is just Daffy.

[ edited by ZachsMind on 2004-02-16 19:32 ]

ZachsMind | February 16, 21:27 CET

Why does "Where do we go from here" keep playing in my head...

Angel was never my favorite Jossverse series, it was actually my least favorite from the three we've seen throught these years.
But it's sad anyway, to see it go away. And Jordan's words, actually make me more pisssed.

I wonder when we'll see some news about a spin off....
Will Ripper / Watcher finally have a go?
Will we see a Faith spin off in the near future?
Or something else.
Something All New and All DIfferent by Joss WHedon and his incredible team.

When they start shopping for a home, for a new show, I believe that THE WB will be the last place they'll try to land it, specially afeter what happened this last couple of years.
Well some people are just plainly ungrateful....
It's all about the power after all.....
UPN may be the first one to consider picking it.

We'll keep hoping.....

Numfar PTB | February 16, 21:42 CET

'Skein' 'auds' 'sked' 'competish' 'prexy,' the lack of the word 'the' in many places...is this like, 'industry' lingo, or what?

ETA- Ah, I see this has been mentioned above.

Actually, it's just maddeningly awful grammar and the reason I hate reading Variety, but yes, I suppose they like to pretend it's industry lingo.

As for Levin's comments about Angel not repeating well, can anyone even remember the last time they bothered repeating the show? I know they didn't for seasons 3 and 4, at least not on a regularly scheduled basis. I remember that I missed bits and pieces of 'Waiting in the Wings' in season 3, so I thought I'd just wait for the WB to rerun it. Yeah, here I am STILL waiting to see the complete episode, which won't happen until I gather enough cash to buy the DVDs. How can something repeat well when you don't repeat it?

I had also never seen a picture of Levin, and for some reason I figured he was about 50 years older. He looks like he's 12. It's sad that such a young executive has already lost sight of the fact that quality should play a part when programming your network. It's all about the money. I will also be twirling the ends of my metaphorical evil moustache in the hopes that all the new WB shows bomb and Levin gets ousted.

MindPieces | February 16, 21:46 CET

My WB affiliate repeated the first four or five episodes of season five during the Xmas "hiatus" period. Probably other affiliates didn't? I watched all the repeats gladly but since I don't have a stupid Nielsen box my viewing habits are apparently immaterial. Speaking of repeats, one thing that annoys me silly is how on my WB, they show Smallville on Wednesday and then repeat the just-shown episode on Saturday. Why does Smallville get the special treatment? Is it more highly rated because it gets more exposure? Possibly.

Where's this picture of the Antichrist, er, Levin? Do you have to register with Variety to see it? I can't find it. I'd like to be able to rudely stick my tongue out at it, like Cordelia did to James in Heartthrob. Yeah, I know I'm petty. So sue me. I'm mad as hell.

The Variety lingo drives me insane. They need to get over themselves. What's so imprecise about calling something a "series?" Why dredge up "skein" and use it when you can just say "series?" And "sked?" Hello? Determined obfuscation to confuse the non-industry folks? What pretension. And the lack of "the" is just stupid. And "prexy." What a load of hoohah.

I think I need a seabreeze. Where's Lorne's Caritas bartender when you need him?

phlebotinin | February 16, 22:02 CET

It would have been better last May when The WB announced the renewal that season 5 was to have been the last. Sure we would have bitched like mad at the time but anything would have been better than the events of Friday 13th.

Simon | February 16, 22:14 CET

phlebotinin- Levin's picture is right under Joss on the original article. Maybe you do have to register. It's free for a week. I did it a couple of days ago and haven't been bombarded with all manner of spam. The missing "the" really grated my carrots as well.

marmoset | February 16, 22:21 CET

I wish Joss would tell us which networks/channels he is shopping the show too. We could then target our energies into a more direct campaign. For now, I am going to mail them to the media. I am through trying for renewal, I want it picked up somewhere else. We have got to save this show. It is too good to lose. It still has a minimum of 2 more seasons in it.

kdeweb | February 16, 22:35 CET

You kids consistantly fail to realize the power you have and use it. As long as you whine, weep and protest over the loss of a show you love (like AtS) - and then still faithfully tune in to watch the other WB shows, you are proving to the WB that you are exactly what they think you are: Sheep.

Boycott the WB.

wissxwe | February 16, 22:41 CET

Wissxwe, I for one don't watch anything else on the WB. Never, ever. However, whether I decide to tune in or not in the future doesn't matter one whit to the WB. They have no idea I exist because I am not a Nielsen.

phlebotinin | February 16, 22:47 CET

I agree with both wissxwe and phlebotinin. Let me explain...I too watch nothing else on the WB. I did write Jordan Levin a letter telling him that same thing. I also told him that they will not be able to swap a "vampire" show for Angel and expect that I will just follow. I also must say that I too am not a Nielsen...big surprise...(I don't know anyone who is) so anything I watch or do not watch does not matter one little shit. The system needs revamped.

Coll | February 16, 23:00 CET

ANGEL is the only reason I EVER turned on TheWB. The sad fact is that I would pay to see this show. If it were to be turned into a pay-per-view show I would find a way to cough up the $80 to $100 a month to see it every week. It is my absolute favorite series on television right now. I am not going down without a fight though. I just want Joss to tell me what his plan is so I can go into battle for him.

kdeweb | February 16, 23:08 CET

wissxwe, calling everybody 'kids' and 'sheep' is not the way to make friends here. Be nice.

Caroline | February 16, 23:28 CET

I wrote to WB stating that although I am not a Nielson household, I am an Angel fan and I'm willing to demonstrate that by patronizing its sponsors. And I'm willing to boycott the sponsors of such vapid silly drivel as "Charmed".
Not that it'll mean much (read: anything) to them, but I feel better letting them know that I can make a difference SOMEhow.

meredith | February 17, 00:14 CET

That's why if you don't have a Tivo coll - now is the time to get it. Nielsens have now partnered with TIVO in order to report on what their viewers are viewing. Since this seasons earlier fiasco, the Nielsens are looking toward TIVO to give another set of results the Nielsens can use as part of their ratings report.

RavenU | February 17, 00:23 CET

Yikes, that article reads like A Clockwork Orange. Do tv people really talk/write like that?

Jack Gladney | February 17, 01:14 CET

Maybe we should start an Angel pyramid scheme and promote to the WB. We could each promise to recruit two new viewers who would in turn recruit two new viewers...we could wear capes with different colors signifying when we move up a level...

marmoset | February 17, 01:23 CET

This is probably an incredibly stupid question, but can a cable channel like HBO pick up a show like Angel? Or, does HBO insist on only its own original programming? Because if Angel was on HBO, a Joss Whedon show might finally be nominated for an Emmy.

What channels other than UPN, FOX, and TNT are possibilities? For example, is FX a channel that could afford a show like Angel? I think the show Nip/Tuck only averages 2 - 3 million viewers and that's considered a success on FX.

I agree with other fans, I'd be willing to pay for my weekly Whedon fix.

mai | February 17, 01:29 CET

I second mai's question about HBO. I've been wondering that myself. HBO or Showtime and other subscription channels.....why couldn't or wouldn't they pick up Angel?

phlebotinin | February 17, 02:11 CET

Thanks for clearing up what "skein" meant. I could kind of guess from context but was never sure.

Regarding ratings: is there somewhere that I can go which has a comprehensive listing of the ratings for each episode/season of Angel? (with commentary to explain what the heck it means would rock, but anything is beter than nothing.) There are several Buffy crossover Angel watchers who think that I am on crack for insisting that this season has higher ratings and I wanted to be able to to have something to back this up. (Sorry if this has been already addressed recently, with the sudden influx of comments, it's hard to keep up ontop of what has been addressed.)

Since the end of Buffy, Angel is the only show that I watch. Not the only show on the WB, the *only* TV show. So for some of us, a WB boycott does not quite make sense. And it's been quite some years since anyone called me a kid. *grins*

mephistopholes | February 17, 03:47 CET

I bet if the costs were right and the opportunity was there, HBO may very well wanna pick up a show like Angel. HBO survives on subscriptions, not ad revenue...an announcement that Angel will continue on HBO would see a significant jump in their subscriptions. They might not get all the casual viewers, but the diehards who are willing and able to spend the extra bit of cash, definitely (hey, just cancel your regular cable subscription and use the money you saved on that for HBO)...Dunno how it would be shopped around to foreign markets. Probably still through 20th Century Fox, right?

No idea what sorta legal red tape would prevent Joss and co. from shopping it around though. This thing with The WB possibly retaining the rights in case of TV-movies (even if that does sound like something that was dangled in front of fans to placate them) makes it sound like they aren't going to be able to. Hopefully we'll hear some info about why it is or isn't feasible to campaign for the series on another network/direct-to-DVD.

Kris | February 17, 05:16 CET

What kills me about the networks is that they always through out the answer of the show being costly. Which is not an untruth, sci-fi shows or anything computer graphic heavy is expensive, but the WB IS NOT BROKE!!!

Also, I will never for as long as I live understand the concept of networks throwing out shows that have a fanbase and instead of nurturing the show and fostering it and pushing it to a new audience, they toss it out and bring in a new show where they have to build an audience from scratch. It's a huge catch and release game. This is such a tremendous slap in the face to the cast and the crew. That show is incredibly witty, entertaining, amazingly acted and it has proved itself. Now weeks after their 100th episode, this!!! The WB must like being the lowly red-headed stepchild of network television. They refuse to pay the cost for one FANTASTIC show, but will pay for a dozen marginal or downright lousy shows (do you hear me cast of "What I Like About You" and "One Tree Hill"?).

angiebear | February 17, 06:17 CET

I suppose folks can boycott the WB or not, as is their like, but I'd say it's self-evident that if they were concerned about keeping Angel viewers they would keep Angel. If they can afford to have X viewers walk away from that hour they can certainly afford to have .01X (don't kid yourself that even a full 1% would boycott an entire network over the loss of one show) viewers walk away from all their other hours.

Really, even if 100% of Angel viewers were to turn off the WB entirely it's questionable how much impact that would have to them - what's the likely 7th Heaven or Gilmore Girls overlap? Yeah yeah Skippy, I can see you getting all worked up to add your comment about how you religiously watch all three. Your anecdotal evidence doesn't extrapolate to statistical significance. In the big picture that 1% walk-off of viewship would likely mean less than .001% walkoff from all their other shows.

And really, with WB viewership what it is they could just donate a tv to some homeless shelter and replace those 12 viewers.

phearlez | February 20, 03:17 CET