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February 17 2004

The WB cancels 'Angel'. "There may be hope for resurrection. Although nothing is finalized yet, Whedon is talking with the network about possible "Angel" TV movies next year to tie up any loose ends in the story."

I just love how Jordan Levin says that he wanted to give Joss enough notice so he can wrap up the characters he's a good guy in all of this!! I remember reading somewhere that Joss asked him for advance notice if they were going to cancel Angel.

What caught my eye is the suggestion that Joss may be pitching a sixth season for Angel to TNT and UPN. Is this pure speculation on the part of the reporter or is Joss really making advances? God, I hope so.

Jordan Levin is a black hat. Not a tinge of white (or grey, I think) on that hat.

[ edited by phlebotinin on 2004-02-18 00:02 ]
I would say spec at the moment.

Lets be honest, I've been lurking at the Bronze Beta to see if any Mutant Enemy news has come from that board
I remain cautiously optimistic, probably out of an overwhelming desire for the show not to die. Peter David's site mentions the "already cancelled/pending cancellation Angel and Enterprise", I gave up on Enterprise at the beginning of the season after many, many chances, and the news lifted my spirits, with Enterprise gone, could UPN afford a new season of Angel? They were keen to have a Buffy spinoff for this year, and here's their oppurtunity.
I cautiously await the day in a month or so's time a mass sigh of relief and a cheer can be heard worldwide.

[ edited by Ghost Spike on 2004-02-18 00:43 ]
I was reading about DVD sales today and it got me to thinking. Why couldn't a 6th Season of Angel be made and go straight to a DVD set, as opposed to being shown on TV? If everything I've read is true, then the WB doesn't make any money off the DVDs's FOX that makes that profit. I mean they do it with straight to video movies right? I can't in a million years actually see them doing something like that, but with Angel being an established show and the DVD sales being so would definately be an interesting approach to keeping the Angel story going.
I may be wrong, but I have the feeling that everything in that article may be based purely on that press release of The WB's. I'm thinking that that suggestion of Joss shopping the show around is just speculation on the part of the article writer.
Yeah, note the "such as" before he mentions TNT and UPN. It sounds like spec, but at least it sounds a bit hopeful. And Simon, just as you're lurking at the Bronze Beta, I'm refreshing here constantly because I know that if there's word it will be here within minutes ;) The vigil continues.
R3 - I'm right there with you buddy and I have been promoting that idea for the last few monthes. It's not like the majority of us don't already pay money to watch intelligent programming or even crap for that matter on TV - need I remind you of all the ways we do pay - cable, satellite, premium channels, and pay-per- view. Was it any wonder then that we wouldn't by DVD's of our favorite programs - of course we do and not for the bells and whistles that come with it. Hollywood will balk and say not all shows work when selling on DVD - and to that I say - no duh - however look at some of the top selling programs - they all have one thing in common. They are layered storytelling - they are shows that offer you something new to view or think about or get with every viewing - they do not just go for the laugh or the effect - they go for the thought and emotion. That is why Joss's stuff does well in the DVD market cause whether you watch it once or a 100 times there will always be something you didn't notice before and that's what makes for great and profitable entertainment if given the chance.

Heck - I'm even for ME taking soul control and just selling options per episode to the public and raising money that way then putting them out on DVD. People realize they would lose the money for the most part cause it takes years for series to make money if ever but hey at least then Joss could do it hos way.

**Panting** Ok I'm done with my insane rant now :)

[ edited by RavenU on 2004-02-18 01:02 ]
RavenU- I found a article about TV series DVDs (

"With the success of X-Files and Buffy, Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment, which claims more than 40 percent of the TV-on-DVD market, began trying more mainstream shows. The first season of The Simpsons was golden on DVD, becoming the best-selling TV series ever. "People just wanted these cool-looking boxed sets with all the extra features," Hettrick says."

I definately think that a TV-Series released only on DVD would be crazy for a new show, but with Angel having an already established loyal fanbase, and with (probably) only a seaon or two left to finish up the story in the BEST way, I can't see how it wouldn't be a perfect outlet for Joss to do exactly what he wants and communicate directly with the fans. Plus Angel would get a LOT of publicity for being a "first" to do something like this.

Of course I don't know what all the costs are that go into creating a DVD set, but for a simple calculation: If you figure it would be $60 for a Season 6 DVD set, and if there are only 2 million fans that would buy the set then that yields $120 mil. If you allow $1 million in cost per episode that gives you $98 mil. left over to pay everyone else involved and create/ship the DVD set. Now obviously those numbers are just ones I've cooked up off the top of my head and to anyone who knows anything about this sort of thing I probably sound like a moron, but I'm just illustrating how it seems like a sound idea to me. If anyone has a good source for what costs would go into an idea like this I'd be interested in the info.

I'm curious if Joss has even THOUGHT of making a season 6 of Angel on JUST DVD...hmmm...
If there were just a way to option out the show by eposide on DVD or that the wait wouldn't be a whole year. The biggest problem I see with waiting a whole year is that you might lose some people who will BUY the DVD set.

The best way I could think to battle loss of interest as the DVD-series was being made, would be to have a strong Internet Website for that kept everyone involved in the story and everything. Maybe something akin to the Hyperspace Starwars site...with a webcam of the set and everything...interviews with the writers.

Just some random thoughts.
I've been wondering about that myself for a long while. Obviously there's a lot of numbers involved most of us just don't know about, but the whole DVD market is new, and frankly it's a little different from the VHS market.

Could it be viable at all to make a season of a TV show solely to sell on DVD? I really want to know.

I think even if it is, the whole TV world is so built around broadcasting and ratings, that it would have to be a company taking a bold and innovative risk to break this new ground. And let's face it, these people are not known for their bold and innovative risk taking. Especially these days.
R3 - it's already been done in a way from THR back in Dec 2003 ... so Angel would just be primed for the market that Family Guy has already began to pave the way for ....

THR: And now with TV DVD coming on so strong, there are even more titles to get in front of people.

Beeks: I think what's really amazing is something like what happened at Mike's company with (Fox's) "Family Guy," which only aired for one season but went on to become this phenomenal DVD success …

*Dunn: And we're going to go back into production on "Family Guy" specifically for the DVD market, as a result of the DVD success. I think this 34-year-old male, who is a very avid purchaser, fits right into the demo of our TV DVD business. The things that really work, like (Fox's) "The Simpsons" — which will do 1.6 million units on Season One alone, over the period of a year and a half — are in that sweet spot, and it's created a revenue source that didn't exist during the VHS days. It's that male consumer that has a high-end home entertainment system and is a collector.

*Dunn is Mike Dunn, President of FOX Home Video Division

Then more reports with th last few monthes from THR ....

According to Video Store Magazine research, U.S. sales of TV shows on DVD nearly tripled from $300 million in 2001 to $870 million last year, or 10% of total consumer DVD spending. This year, that figure is likely to top the $1 billion mark.

"In less than four years, we've created a megamillion-dollar business — and what amounts to a new syndication window for quality TV programming," says Steve Feldstein, senior vp marketing communications at 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment, a pioneer in the TV-on-DVD category.

Analyst Tom Adams, president of Adams Media Research, recently completed a study about the TV-on-DVD phenomenon and found that "complete season" boxed sets typically sell more than 500,000 units — about what a top VHS rental title used to move during the pre-DVD days. "They're $50-plus per set, so they generate the most money," Adams says. "A lot of people don't discover a hit show until after it's been on for a while, and then they want to see what they missed. Then there are the fans who have been onboard since Day 1 and have kind of a proprietary feeling."

So far this year, TCFHE has released 11 of the 20 top-selling TV-on-DVD releases. Ironically, TCFHE's best seller is "The Family Guy: Vol. 1," an animated series from Seth MacFarlane that was canceled after only three seasons.
"The success of 'Family Guy' proves a couple of things — not just (that) films find their ultimate audience on DVD, but also if you effectively tap into a loyal but dormant fan base, you can reinvigorate a property and bring it back into the popular culture,"
Feldstein says.

This year, TCFHE also scored big with complete season sets of the syndicated "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and the network's "24."

[ edited by RavenU on 2004-02-18 02:00 ]
I don't know if this is feasible, but what about broadcasting each episode via pay-per-view. Personally, I'd be willing to pay for each episode AND the DVD when it comes out.
Actually - I was more inclined to do a 2 ep DVD release a month for 5 monthes (less than $20 price) then on the 6th month come out with the box set including 2 more episodes and all the little extras (at the $50 price) - thereby giving us a 12 ep season akin to HBO and cable programming wait 3 monthes after that and farm it into syndication (edited - so not only to attract potential viewers but to also get them out there to buy the unedited full versions on DVD) and then wait another 3 monthes and start the next season. Thus the cycle starts again. Ok maybe I have thought to much about this. :D
Isn't there a DVD only "24" spinoff coming out soon?
Though it's a good example, the executive producer of "Family Guy" said that since they're now working on a new season set to air Dec/Jan that the straight to DVD project has been canned. They have said that the eventual destination for the new episodes will be a season 4 DVD box set, but they'll get an airing before that.
That's just what I was thinking. What about the fans themselves financing the show's 6th Season. I know the immediate response to that is to snicker, and that's what I did until I thought about it in a different light. If all this talk about Angel and Joss having this "loyal fanbase" is actually true...and we are willing to pay, why couldn't the fans actualy pay for another season of Angel. My initial thought would be that it could be accomplished through a political-campaign style movement. Look at Howard Dean's innovative "Internet grassroots" donations success. I heard (although I can't back it up with a source) that most of Dean's donations over the his website were from normal everyday people, just like us. And you think Americans actually care more about politics or entertainment? ;) ...If there were some way to organize and galvanize all the Joss/Angel fans (and I'm sure Joss would have to actually be the spokesman for such a venture to get the needed numbers involved) I think that there might actually be good odds that the fans could finance Angel Season 6...depending on the production costs of course. :)

Be it a straight to DVD Season 6 or a fan-backed Season 6, the more I think on it, the more I just have this craving to cut out the TV Networks. They seem to be the ones always messing things up.
RavenU -No, no I don't think you've thought of it too much. I have to admit that I don't usually get worked up about TV Series. I'm more than willing to have debates about plot points and all that good stuff, but generally I don't get so worked up as to argue and bicker. BUT...with this cancellation and Joss seemingly so upset about Angel and the fact that we are almost 100% guaranteed (in my opinion) to not be satisfied with the Series Ending of Angel (not Joss's fault obviously) I just can't help but get a little passionate about finding completely innovative and alternate ways to keep Angel alive...and I mean alive and whole...not alive and butchered to death like the WB had tried to do going into Season 5 (with the no-arch and smaller budget constraints).

As I've said before, I don't know all the numbers that go into all this, but from my vantage point I'm willing to give anything a go, be it a "normal 22 ep season" on DVD, a fan-backed Season, or a "modified staggered" DVD release. The one thing those all have in common WB :)

[ edited by RTADoyle on 2007-10-27 11:35 ]
This is from Broadcasting & Cable and magazine ..... since paid registration is required .... I post some of the points that I haven't seen in the other post about it's cancelation ......

WB Grounds Angel

The WB has decided to clip Angel’s wings, ending the show after this season, the show’s fifth.

The decision apparently caught Angel’s cast and crew off-guard because the show had been creatively renovated this year, had seen solid ratings, and was even presented to TV critics at last month’s winter press tour.

Whedon added, "All we have left on Angel is to end the season with episodes as strong and meaningful as we can muster–but then, we were gonna do that anyway."

"While we’re disappointed in The WB’s decision not to continue the series beyond this season, we’re incredibly proud that the show will end its run at the top of its game," said Dana Walden, president of Twentieth Century Fox Television.

Facing depressed ratings, The WB is looking for ways to improve its fortunes, including adding more unscripted shows to its schedule and repeating dramas less often. Angel is not only a serialized drama that doesn’t repeat well–a problem all networks are having–it also comes with its own deep mythology that limits the show’s ability to attract new viewers.

DVD sales of the show have been surprisingly strong due to the show’s loyal fan base. Angel spun-off from Buffy the Vampire Slayer in 1999. Buffy, also created and executive produced by Whedon, departed the air last May.

Ok can you say "Levin is moronic" - from solid ratings for the show to depressed ratings for the network in the span of a few sentences. Makes no sences for a network who is suffering an overall ratings drop to pull one of the few shows in it's stable that had a ratings increase. Or maybe it's just me. I do love the line which kinda irked me to know end about having them at the critics junkit a few weeks back and how the critics loved Andy as Lorne.

Anyone else get the feeling me may see a string of evil Levin look-a-likes for the last few episodes or am I just being 2 evil. :)
The DVD options sound good but I don't know if the cast would want to do it that way.
The problem with a direct to DVD approach is that it will be a big risk for whoever is paying it (for it is a large amount of money and it is still pretty much unexplored country), and therefore not so likely to happen. If there is some way for fans to pay upfront the risk would be smaller and therefore the undertaking more feasible. Another option is having people take that risk who are more willing to take it. There is not one fan (probably) who has the money to pay for the production of a whole season of Angel, but what if we all buy stocks in a company which has the purpose of first producing Angel and then selling it (on DVD, and in syndication). This way fans could make sure Angel was being made and get rich in the process (well, hopefully :-). I for one would be willing to pay for such stocks than I would be for paying for just a DVD set upfront.

Anyway I guess one must look for feasible ways to collect the money fans are willing to pay for the show they love.

BTW RavenU "ME taking Soul control" lol.

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