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Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'"
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October 15 2012

Ant-Man movie gets November 6, 2015 release date. Can we expect Hank Pym to be at first introduced as part of the superhero line-up in Joss' second Avengers film that comes out only 6 months earlier?

I am so beyond ecstatic about this, not gonna lie. I sincerely hope there aren't that many new characters in Avengers 2, and I actually don't want Ant Man to appear in Avengers 2... I think the characters already introduced in the first Avengers are more than enough, especially when you're probably going to add Thanos.
Is this Phase 2 or Phase 3?
Hank pym could easily be introduced in Avengers 2 as a scientist working for SHIELD or for Tony Stark. But it should be a small role so it won't be essential to see Avengers 2 in order to see Ant-Man, Simply so the Ant Man film can stand on it's own.
But I would like Ant-Man to be a part of the Avengers for the third Avengers.
For all the Ant-Man fans, I am very happy.

Personally, I am getting a bit frustrated with Marvel. Can we please have a film with a woman lead already? I'm not a Marvel expert, but from what I understand, there are several cool woman characters to choose from. (Not to mention Black Widow, who is already established in the movie universe.) As a girl geek, I'm starting to feel like the Marvel movie universe is very androcentric. I would really like to see a female character who is more than a love interest (see: every Marvel movie before Avengers) or a supporting cast-member (see: Black Widow & Maria Hill in Avengers).

By the time Ant-Man comes out, the Hulk, Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America each will have starred in 2-3 movies. Is ONE single movie starring a woman so much to ask for??
erendis - Unfortunately, based on the history of female superhero movies made to date; Yes, it is too much to ask for. Every one that's been made has been a financial failure so far. Now, after The Hunger Games, there is the potential for that to change. But unless Joss would be the guy directing/writing it, I don't think Marvel would be interested in taking the financial risk.
erendis, unfortunately some of Marvel's most well known female characters are muntants from the X-men series which Marvel does not have the rights too.

I would hope that Wasp gets introduced in Ant-Man and also joins the Avengers, although she still is a supporting cast member (although an important one, I think).

I do think Black Widow could hold her own and would be great in her own movie. The question is whether Marvel can find the right talent to write and direct it.

Also was often talk about a Runaways movie, which once again doesn't star a female character solo, the original team started the series had 4 female characters and 2 guys in the team. Last I heard there was a good script for Runaways, but the project was put on hold while Marvel was focused on Avengers (not sure if it was resources, money or something else). Not sure where it would fit now, but I think that could make a great movie.
Runaways technically had five females at the start, if you count the dinosaur, which of course I do.

For awhile they even got to the casting stage but they wanted to open casting for an Asian-American character to all ethnicities. That kerfluffle was pretty much the last I head of it before it seemed like they ramped down the production for whatever other reasons I find very disappointing since I've long loved that series.

But yeah, it would be great to see more female characters as part of the ensembles at the very least. The version of Guardians of the Galaxy they're going for in the movies actually had 3-4 female leads including a lesbian couple but for the film concept art it seems like they're down to one.
The problem from the standpoint of women is that they are trying to more or less stick with the general introduction of characters as in the original Avengers. The lone female character you can definitely country on encountering soon would be Janet Pym, the Wasp. I've never heard confirmation one way or another about the Scarlet Witch. I've always assumed that they spelled out explicitly in the country which mutants would be contained within the X-Men franchise. This could only be done by naming specific characters. But there are individual mutants that I'm reasonably confident were not included in that original contract. The most obvious is Molly Hayes, who despite being a mutant would be in a Runaways movie.

Also, Prince Namor is a mutant, but I doubt that he is included in the X-Men franchise contract.

It does, however, seem very likely that Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch are limited to the X-Men. Therefore you can't seen the Scarlet Witch in the next two or three Avengers movies, even though she (and Quicksilver) were very nearly charter members.

The only real option would seem to be to move up a character, to bring up a female who would later be an Avenger but wasn't an early part of the Avengers in the comics. I think that is why they are putting Ms. Marvel in the next movie.

What I would really love to see is a film version of ALIAS. It is precisely the right length to turn into a great feature film. And because Luke Cage plays a central role, it would be a great way of introducing him. I would imagine they would entitle it something like ALIAS JESSICA JONES, in order to allay confusion with the TV series of the same name.

But I also suspect that the TV series that Joss is developing is a way of introducing female characters into the visual world of Marvel. The big problem is that in the sixties they were slow to make women a central part of the hero universe. And, as others have noted, too many of the strongest women - Jean Grey, e.g., or Storm, or Kitty Pryde - are X-Men. Or Sue Storm. They have the same problem with people of color. Luke Cage was introduced explicitly in the seventies as a blaxploitation type character. It was only in the past decade or so that Nick Fury has been black. Although the X-Men were coded as "Other" in any form that that can take, either gender or race or whatever.
I believe Marvel can use Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver.
Jelly is right. They're some of the "grey area" characters that both studios can use.

Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver may appear, but Marvel Studios is not allowed to mention that they are mutants or Magneto's children.
The problem from the standpoint of women is that they are trying to more or less stick with the general introduction of characters as in the original Avengers.


Not sure where this idea comes from considering both Ant-man and Wasp were founding members, whereas Hawkeye didn't join the team until 60+ books later and Black Widow only became an Avenger in the 70s. And it's not like Hawkeye and Black Widow are vastly more popular than Ant-Man and Wasp, to justify pulling them up ahead. All four of them are pretty much unknown outside the comic fan community.

It seems to me that those two were included because they fit the story better (hard to wave away super growing/shrinking power origin stories with 'they're agents of SHIELD'), showing that Marvel is mainly concerned with what's best for the story, not what order the characters originally joined.
Pity it isn't Ant-Man coming before Avengers 2. Guess we'll be waiting for the third film before we get Pym as an Avenger. Though I expect the Ant-Man film will cover a lot of Avengers material (that's where the character has made the lion's share of his appearances and character development).
Impossible to have Ant Man without the Wasp. Also, I totally agree we need film versions of Alias and Runaways. Finally, I really want Scarlet Witch in a movie.
There was actually an Alias TV show in development for a long time, with the title "AKA Jessica Jones", but it never got off the ground. It's funny actually how the comic debuted in the same month as the TV Alias.

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