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October 22 2012

(SPOILER) Scott Allie's Slayalive Q/A for Buffy # 14. As usual,a lot of topics are covered and there are spoilerish bits.

Well if DH trusted Jane with the mythology, she screw it up, because vampires once sired they can't enter their homes or other houses, unless they get an invitation.

Angelus only entered his home once his sister invited him.

From Scott's reply looks like they trusted Jane on this, but it was a fail.
I'm not sure about this Malcolm McLaren guy, but I bet Marshall McLuhan is pissed about him stealing his singular thesis.
Haha, Baxter, you name it (and him correctly).
Scott: We asked Jane about this at the script stage, and she said that he'd been in the house previously, under different circumstances.

Seems like a screwup being covered over then. Didn't Angel himself have to be invited into his own home by a family member after he was sired (the sister who first referred to him as an angel or something)..?

[ edited by apollo11 on 2012-10-22 12:55 ]
This caught my eye: "I believe the people who feel we've whitewashed Angel have their own reasons for wanting to see him torn down once and for all, and feel we passed up the opportunity. Buffy readers are a polarized group, particularly when you get within spitting distance of the whole shipping thing."

First, people invest however they invest; nothing new there. Is Allie saying that he is upset that they do not invest the way he thinks they should? But more, he conflates the anger at how they explained Angel's action by relating it to shipper wars. And that is not the real issue. To me, the real issue is agency anc consent, especially with the cosmic frakking. And that, he continues to not just gloss over, but never bring up at all.
If there's no demon inside a zompire, then the usual rules would not apply.

he conflates the anger at how they explained Angel's action by relating it to shipper wars.


Proxy wars are not unheard of in our fandom. If you don't want to be seen as criticising the pairing directly, then you focus on attacking one of the (usually male) characters involved instead.
I think that in a world without magic the invitation rule shouldn't apply anymore, really. Or, at least, it'd make sense if it didn't.

[ edited by nyrk on 2012-10-22 13:36 ]
It would actually have been an easier, more logical (and potentially more interesting) way to go if it weren't. However they seem to have confirmed they decided the invite rule does still apply... and while screwing it up at the same time too.
Well, Billy issued a nonspecific invite to Devon. I guess if you could always assume that it applies to any vampire within earshot.
Part of the anger at the Angel thing was absolutely due to the shipper wars. Some of the people involved didn't even bother to try hiding it.
Non specific invitations DON'T apply. Angel needed a specific invitation to enter into Buffy's dorm.

Dawn in Real Me.
"DAWN: Oh yeah? Come inside and say that! Xander will kick your-"

And Dawn's invitation applied ONLY to Harmony, NOT to her minions, although it was a nonspecific one.

[ edited by zianna on 2012-10-22 14:45 ]
@apollo11 yeah, unfortunately that's what it looks like. They could still fix it though, after all nothing contradicts the possibility in the comics, yet.
@zianna: The Seed did it! :)

ETA: The Angel invite wasn't actually specific other than he needed her to actually say "Come in." Buffy didn't have to mention him by name. There is still the Dawn and Harmony issue to contend with, though.

Or, heck, maybe Sky has a sign on her door that says something like "All Are Welcome" or something hippie-ish like that. *snort*

[ edited by wenxina on 2012-10-22 19:22 ]
I'm pretty sure vamps can't enter a house based on an invitation issued when they were still human.

It's perfectly plausible to say that the invitation rule applies to the demon who inhabits the vampire, and since zompires have no demon the rule doesn't apply to them.

If that's true, though, it's a really big deal... it means zompires can just barge into anyone's house and kill them at will.
Rowan- what about the part that wasn't? It is not that reducible.
Wow, yeah, they do seem to have boned the invite thing. Jane's apparent explanation doesn't make any sense without further explanations of some sort. I think the "no demon actually present, no invite needed" thing is the most logical, but then they'd have to have been dealing with that new reality this entire time.
The zompire in the house sans invite explanation really is weak. I too would rather the rule not apply and have essentially a zompire apocalypse. It's already brewing.
The seed's gone so magic is wonky/barely exists now. I don't see any problem with them playing with the established rules of the universe as they pertain to magic because they probably no longer apply, really.

Of more concern to me is the quote by Allie about how Joss is less involved with Season 9 than 8, because it's extremely apparent that he's not around. The comic needs more of him, not less.
The problem is they aren't playing with the rule. They could have done here... but instead confirmed the rule does still apply and in doing so have confirmed they screwed it up. I don't even usually notice these things, but it was kind of unmissable here.
In fact the simplest and most effective means of 'whitewashing' the Angel-has-done-pretty-awful-stuff-throughout-but-seems-to-get-a-pass is to assert that any concerns about it are entirely down to 'shipper' issues. Q.E.D.
I don't know if they changed the rules or just plain ignore them with this invite thing and we already had Angel inviting Harmony in.
What about that part, Dana? You said:
But more, he conflates the anger at how they explained Angel's action by relating it to shipper wars. And that is not the real issue. To me, the real issue is agency anc consent, especially with the cosmic frakking.

I'm saying that there absolutely were people whose anger was due to the shipper thing. What it is to you is frankly of no relevance to that, because those people made no effort to conceal their reasoning (and I use the term loosely.) Sorry, but it is what it is, like it or not.
I think Scott Allie's answer about Angel was fair. The answer about the invitation in #14 isn't satisfying though. I'd much rather see this as part of the changing ground rules for vampires in a magicless world.
I haven't really been keeping up with a lot of other vampire universes, but since so much of the "usual" mythos has been tossed out the window in modern literature and film, I wonder if Jane simply forgot how the invitation thing works in the Buffyverse?
Perhaps zompires don't need an invite to enter a place that their human selves had been, whereas vampires do?

If it's an error it's not so huge that it can't be worked around anyway.

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