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October 31 2012

(SPOILER) Discuss Angel & Faith #15. Will our perception of the Buffyverse ever be the same again?

I won't have my copy until tommorw at the earliest but i've read spoilers.It does sound like this issue gives some long awaited answers about Whistler and his agenda as well as Pearl & Nash.
I don't have time for a serious review today, but just wanted to comment that Whistler's origin story feels like a tribute to Brian K. Vaughan and Fiona Staples' Saga series, that happens to be my favorite ongoing comic series. I really wish the art was not distracting me so much in the Part I of the story though.
Here's my summary and review. Christos Gage had a job of work cut out for him working out the snafu from Season 8 and I think he's doing a marvelous job. Indeed, Simon, it's possible that our perception will never be the same.
I found the issue a little boring. I am quite enjoying this series, but having a full issue of exposition with little to no action does not make for an exciting issue for me. That being said, I did learn some more details that I wanted to know behind Whistler's plan and Nash & Pearl's origin.
I enjoyed this issue a lot. Whitslers story worked for me in a positive way and I loved his explanation of Destiny with free will totally in place, which is just the way that I always imagined it to work. :)

Buffy flashbacks, even small, are always of the good, as is Angel being thankful for her in his life. This issue answered a lot of questions for me and I appreciate Whitsler not being morphed into a villian.
WOW! I didn't they could but I think they just brought this series up a couple of notches. This issue brought so much depth to the villains and the plot. I love the way everything isn't just black and white, Angel was always about the grey. You can really tell that Christios Cage understood what the series was about. By far this is my favorite Whedon comic series to date.
I'm glad to see Angel finally acknowledging the core villainy of the plan he had become a part of, and the confirmation that there was absolutely no part of it that was the Powers or anything resembling the Good's plan for the universe. Just Whistler whining about his lot and deciding to destroy the universe over it and invent a new one. Angel still has more steps to take, i.e. realizing that he should have known much sooner (i.e. the outset) that this was a load of crap he had no business being part of, but I'm glad he turned the corner there.

And I can't wait for him to kill Whistler at some point :)
The 'core villainy' of the plan needs to somehow incorporate the vision of the world ending *if* the plan was not executed. As such the true/false aspects of Whistler's visions were never confirmed - or denied. But judging by his latest vision that included Loo, Whistlers visions are anything but pure falsehood and scum. I would be very hesitating to call a plan that postulated either the wold will end and all shall die - or we can save some a 'pure villainy', but it might be just me. In any case - happy to get an issue that was provocative and imaginative - before we return to the drudgery of Angel's London existence.

[ edited by dorotea on 2012-11-01 02:34 ]
My impressions

Whistler is a dangerous psychopath who is ready to kill 2 billion people to succeed.

Whistler projects the situation with his parents on Buffy and Angel and wants them to find happiness in a fake paradize to make up for his parents' horrible death.

Pearl and Nash are half-breeds. Whistler is a half-breed. Plus, there was a "fake pregnancy with anonymous father" plot on BtVS. Has it something to do with the overall theme of the season?

It's the first time that the authors explicitly say that Powers That Be can make morally evil choices - namely, join forces with demons to kill those who dare to disobey their rules.
Hee, I'm "Justin" in the "Slay the Critics." I love that Scott even included emoticons.
Oh, and after this issue, I feel even more strongly that I hope Gage keeps writing us gorgeous Angel/Faith stories... and definitely looking forward to the return of Rebekah Isaacs. I could just swim around in this recent story.
I certainly hope that CG stays with the verse, but my aversion to any sort of continuation of A&F stories holds. Hope this particular title will not continue. This story should be told in 1 season, there is no need to go on with it further.

[ edited by dorotea on 2012-11-02 04:08 ]
I wouldn't be surprised if the Buffy/Angel line got in the near future since it looks like Dark Horse may be losing the Star Wars license. We might be getting ongoing Buffy, Faith, Spike, and Angel books for "season ten."

Maybe even some Firefly/Serenity.
It was nice to see Alasdair in his prime. Good issue, I like the talky stuff.
This series just keeps getting better and better. An awesome side issue to give us a look at the motivations of our "villains" - absolutely loved it.
Was this the 2nd instance of seeing the Fray-future world in a non-Fray story that had Joss input? The other one being Angel After the Fall. Obviously we saw it when they did the Time of Your Life arc in S8, but was there another case?
I finally have my copy of Angel & Faith #15.I'm going to keep this short since it's been a few days and much has already been discussed.

I'll just say,I thought this issue was amazing.One of the best of both seasons.I thought the artwork was okay.I didn't think it fit the series as well but it was serviceable.

The Angel/Whistler section.

I really can't say anything more than I loved it.Finally we get some real answers about the Twilight agenda from Whistler and his new goal as well as his origin.I'm certainly going to look at the character in a new light in future re watches.

I can't wait see where this goes now that Angel has made it clear he won't help him in his goal this time and will try to stop him.I love that Angel still wants to help him just not in the way he wants.Despite his motives as revealed now,Whistler was the one who got Angel on the path of redemption so I can understand Angel wanting to basically save him.

I think Whistler is a worth big bad here.I wish he was the big bad for both season 9 books actually.

I'll just leave this section with my wondering,wouldn't it be interesting for Whistler and Willow to meet up?Given what Whistler wants to do,and Willow's goals.Oh boy,do I imagine what could happen there and it's not a lot of good.I could see Willow going for Whistler's plans at this point.Spreading magic into everything and everyone with no need for a seed.Magic will just be in everything as a part of nature?Yes,I can see Willow going for something like that.

And I liked Angel's,"You gave me her" to Whistler.I'm a B/Aer.Sue

Pearl & Nash story.

It's interesting getting their back story and works good with the flashback also in last week''s Spike # 3.

Their back story parallels Whistler's which I'm sure was the intention.

I just really loved this issue.
I was late picking up this issue, but again: I'm really impressed. The Angel & Faith series (and in those areas of over-lap, the Spike series) has really been doing a lot more interesting stuff than the BtVS S9. I hope Buffy catches up. But regardless, I'm enjoying this a lot.
Hmm. Just caught up on several issues, and I've got mixed feelings on all of them.

Whistler has been an ambiguous figure with no origin story for so long that I kinda would have preferred to keep him that way. What we learned about him here didn't add a lot to the story, for me. (Whistler was Merlin? Seriously??)

I didn't feel like the Evil Glam Twins really needed backstory, either--this whole issue kinda felt like filler, to me.

But then my fav Buffy villains don't have origin stories, as such--we never found out where the Mayor came from, and only got hints at his backstory, and I liked it that way. Glory had a backstory, but we didn't *see* it, we just got the cliff-notes version and went forward with her being psychotic and trying to get the Key. That worked for me, too.

Oh well-- we get Rebekah and the main story back this month, right? She's my favorite Buffy/Angel artist to date--so who knows, maybe this issue would've done more for me if she'd drawn it? Anyway, I'm looking forward to having her back.
We actually got a semi-Mayor origin story in Tales of the Vampires, I believe. It wasn't in the show, however. Rebekah should be back next issue.

[ edited by archon on 2012-11-05 07:41 ]
I'm getting my issues way late these days, but just in case there's anyone still reading ... I really appreciated Kairos' review and others who do longer analyses. I was never interested in Pearl & Nash before this issue, and now I would be happy to read a miniseries about them. Great humor, but I also can understand the desire to make a better life for your children.

I didn't care for the film-noirish part about Whistler, but then again, I've never cared for Angel. I certainly don't think there needs to be some sort of balance between good & evil in this world. There needs to be a balance between life & death, but that's not the same thing.

Also, demons and hell dimensions remain unclear to me. Sometimes demons are seen as inherently evil and our heroes can slaughter droves of them with no regrets. Yet, we know some demons can be good, or, at least, no worse than humans. I'm thinking of Clem and Lorne. Demons that eat humans are not necessarily evil. A tiger or crocodile isn't evil if it eats a human, no matter how horrified we may be.

We've seen hell dimensions that have creatures that are not evil at all. Do "good" creatures have some responsibility to save more of them?

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