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December 12 2012

(SPOILER) Discuss Buffy Season 9 #16. It's the first part of the "Welcome To The Team" arc.

Halfway through the issue, I thought "that's it, he's toast". A bit disappointed a few pages later to find out that my pessimism might turn out to be have been justified.
Well... even though I knew a certain Old One was coming, I still didn't see her - or more accurately it I suppose - coming. The joy of having forgotten.
And some other characters. Who are Xander and Dawn? I think I remember them... apparently Dark Horse finally has too. ;)

Good issue. Well up on the S9 average to me. Some nice dialogue, something approaching a Xander/Dawn/Buffy relationship existing again, and an intriguing possibility of Uberzomps and what the ending might lead to.

...Finally another good issue.
Aaaand she needs no huffing-puffing magick McGuffins to be the real Queen of the verse.

Go girl. Go home for good.
Sad, the moment I start liking Dowling - GONE.

I should've known better than to develop any remote feelings for a character... gets me every time.

Though I am interested to hear what Illyria has to say, 'til next month!
Til next year, actually... ;)
We didn't see Dowling die, just get bitten. Am I the only one thinking that perhaps he will have survived in the next issue? Playing with people's perceptions that the love interest in Buffy will die, only to switch it around and have them survive?

Anyways, I really enjoyed this issue, I think season 9 faltered a bit in the middle and hope that it is back on the upswing.
I liked this issue. People have been pretty down on Buffy lately (myself included), but I found this issue to move along nicely, establish where Buffy is in her life right now a little better (new team), and give us a peek at what is going on with Xander and Dawn. Plus, Illyria. More Please!

Gotta wonder in Dawn's illness is more serious than just the flu. Plus, Buffy forgetting she is allergic to Peanut Butter (along with Xander forgetting her birthday previously) points to some theories that have been discussed around here before.
Haven't read this yet but, "Oh Lord, more of this same stuff?" is my initial reaction.

Sorry, gang, personally I hope the rumors of a Season 10 don't pan out.
I'm thinking Dawn's illness will have to do with the breakdown of magic. Buffy keeps hearing from everyone why magic being gone is so awful, but she (and the audience) hasn't really felt those effects. Having Dawn get seriously ill (life-threateningly so) would pose a legitimate repercussiosn of Buffy's choice and make it personal.

I don't know what theories have been discussed, but I'm thinking that the loss of magic is starting to break Dawn because she is/was the Key. I'd love for that to come back in some way because it's been largely ignored since season 5 ended.
@Xander-One thing people have speculated is regarding the loss of memories of Dawn (Xander forgetting her birthday, Buffy forgetting her allergy)and how that relates to magic. With the destruction of the seed, perhaps their false memories of Dawn are fading, or worse, as you mentioned, she herself may be breaking down.
This was a great issue, the best since #7. Finally, the series is back on track!
As the main proponent of the `memories fading` theory, Buffy's lapse struck a rather large gong for me. Dawn is essentially magic made flesh, and that would seem to fit to the `innate magic is still there` side of things. Perhaps she's feeling the side effects of the lack of magic in the world because of her link to it..?
Who knows. At least it's getting interesting.
I've been waiting since the Seed was destroyed -- or, frankly, since the S8 villain was named Twilight -- for Dawn's nature to become a major issue.

And DaddyCatALSO, S10 isn't a rumor. Scott Allie has referenced it specifically.
I really liked this issue and Its making me really like this season so far. Willows story arc is out there but Buffy's keeping it simple. I'm not sold on Dowling but I do love Billy. And Im sure Billy will save him and Buffys relationship with Dowling will blossom but eventually fade out. Interesting season though. I'm actually looking forward to rereading this season more than season 8
Dawn is NOT allergic to peanut butter. Unless Im wrong she made Peanut Butter and Banana Quesdillas that were gross in season 6... Willow not seeing her face in the other realm and her symptoms now are not looking good for the Key in a Magicless world
Not great but better issue! Excited to see the next issue.

Anyone have any speculation on who the zompire is? When I was reading for some reason I had the feeling it was somehow Dawn, but going back and looking at the art I'm thinking Joyce.
I'm assuming the mystery zompire is a slayer, which would perhaps explain why it seems stronger and more together. It's a Zompire/Slayer.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2012-12-13 04:51 ]
I'm pretty sure the zompire is Nisha, Andrews slayer that was stuck in the "web" in season 8. She has all the same clothes and the same hair streak.
Wow, good call, Butters.
yes, good! In any case I feel sure it's a turned slayer-- and can I just say, FINALLY? About time they took that on. I know there have been small references here and there to slayers being turned, but I've been waiting ever since the end of Restless when Tara said "be home before Dawn" and I immediately became 100% convinced Buffy would be turned in S5. Oops!
I was convinced for part of S7 that the only way out of The First's plan, since Beljoxa's Eye said everything got screwed by Buffy dying and coming back, was for Buffy to die, and her plan would be to "die" by having someone turn her. (Imagine the fan insanity over whether Angel or Spike should do it?)

Obviously, I was wrong. But I've always wanted them to tackle the turned Slayer question.
ooh good one! Never thought of that! Though I'm fairly certain I have read that fic, now that I think of it...
hey what's Anaheed looking for in Buffy's room? Am I supposed to know already?
Good catch on the peanut butter. Probably another "oops, we forgot" alongside the recent problem with the invite rule and how the hell those zompires could just enter that house... still, having just seen that episode again last week (Smashed/Wrecked iirc now) I'm annoyed I didn't catch it myself!

A turned slayer is something I always wondered about, along with "can/do/did Turok-han types sire?" and "is the first vampire still around"...

I was also expecting that in S7 b!x. Mostly because it tied into the comment where Joss said "Buffy will become a vampire slayer".

[ edited by apollo11 on 2012-12-13 12:42 ]
Good call on the zompire being Nisha. I went back and checked (issue #23 from season 8) and it certainly looks like her.

I've also wondered about a vampire vampire slayer; would she just be another vampire, or would she be a super-vampire as it were? This was never really touched on in the show. Spike did not vamp the Chinese slayer or Nikki, and Drusilla didn't vamp Kendra. Angelus threatened to vamp Faith, but didn't get the chance to.

The peanut butter allergy is one of those things... is it meant to be a subtle clue for those readers who pay close attention? Or is it just a throwaway line from someone who didn't do their homework? It could go either way.

Overall, I thought this a solid issue and I hope the series is back on track. Can't wait to see what Illyria is up to.
If the zompire is Nisha - does this means Simone's whole crew is in town? Also, Simone was very attached to her second in command. Imagine her mental condition after finding out what happened. But, this brings an interesting point - Slayers supposedly already have part of a demon. With Seed being destroyed Nisha is a 'remotely controlled' vampire. What about her inner demonic part? It does not look like she is any more mentally stable than any regular zomp though.

As for Dawn 'slowly fading away' because her body was made entirely by magic , so was Spike's. And he does not seem to be fading back into ghost. And Buffy is not turning back into decayed corpse/zombie either. They better be consistent with these things.
I think the Tales of the Slayer books or comics had a vamped Slayer twice over at least. I forget the name of the main one - she was Japanese and ~300 iirc - but she wasn't any stronger than a regular vampire just with the slayer memories intact, and there have been some contradictory things on that in other cases.
I finally have my copy of Buffy S9 # 16,"Welcome To The Team Part I."

Thought this issue was a big improvement over recent issues.It feels like some movement and meat.

Buffy seems more on her feet and moving out of her "freefall."Glad to see her move back in with her roommates.

As expected,Billy and Dowling are offically part of the team although Dowling might not be for much longer.Hope he survives his cliffhanger.Don't have much opinion either way about the Buffy/Dowling playing around.

So glad to see Xander and Dawn back.They've been missed and that was the juicy part.Xander/Dawn seem to be doing well as a couple which as usual is Danger Will Robinson Danger time.We know Joss.And as teased in last week's Willow # 2,it seems the loss of magic is playing havoc with Dawn and has been much speculated,we are seeing the personal consequences this loss is now going cause to Buffy and her family. I so hope we don't lose Dawn.I doubt Dawn has normal flu and it does seem people are losing knowledge of her.

Also we're seeing the loss of magic it looks like with Buffy's slayer healing.

It seems both monthlies and minis are now going to start converging centered around the loss of magic.

1)The issues with Dawn hitting Buffy close and the formation of this mystical council in Buffy.I'm sure the Severine/Simone aspect will rear it's head vvery soon and tie in.

2)The shards of the seed in Spike:A Dark Place

3)Whistler's plot to restore magic and how the Giles plot will tie in in Angel & Faith.

4)Willow's quest to restore magic in Willow:Wonderland.

And speaking of that council.Illyria finally arrives.Can't wait for Buffy and Illyria's interaction continuing next issue.

So overall a much stronger issue.I found Guarded overall dull and Billy The Vampire Slayer misplaced.This issue feels like a improvment.
While I enjoyed the issue, I find myself stuck on peanut butter. These probable mistakes are distracting in the Buffy comics.

Dawn did talk about cooking with peanut butter right? I suppose that she developed the allergy.

I hope Dowling is ok. I am on the fence with the relationship stuff.

I am excited for more Billyria and felt that Illyria's voice was off to a good start.

I did NOT need too see Dawn's vomit. But I suppose it was effective for demonstrating that her insides are going wonky.

In conclusion, this arc is off to a good start and I just need to get over trivial details like new life threatening peanut butter allergies.
lol. poor Dawnie never gets any dignity in the Buffy verse. She's all crying, snot, and vomit all the time. I mean, yeah, they SHOWED her PUKE in the TOILET. When has that ever happened on any television show or comic ever. I puked and didn't flush. LOOK! Poor Dawnie. I like her a lot and I hope she's gonna be okay.
When Connor told us in Angel & Faith that his foster parents had lost their fake magical memories of him, that should have been a dead giveaway for Dawn's situation.
The peanut butter thing doesn't have to be an error. If the magic surrounding Dawn's existence is coming undone, memories might be shifting and changing for everyone. As in, maybe Dawn now remember being allergic even if it wasn't true.
I'm totally on board with the Dawn-fading-away-because-of-no-more-magic storyline. If played right, it could potentially be amazing. This would also give Xander and Buffy a real opportunity to team up. They both love Dawn so this storyline has some real stakes [no pun intended].

The only thing which irked me was the whole "I'm now independently..", obviously, wealthy. Nothing is going to make Buffy less relatable and down-to-earth than making her never have to worry about money when the rest of us are still stuck in our still crap economy, with governments and economic markets collapsing and convulsing every which way. So Buffy is part of the 1% now? Or am I missing something...
The other, slightly further out alternative is Dawn is the one actually starting to forget or misremember things.
(And Dawn did actually take a bite of the peanut butter concoction in S6 with no ill effects. Leading to the other possibility that it is in fact the writers whose memories have issues since the seed broke. ;) )

[ edited by apollo11 on 2012-12-15 21:15 ]
Mainly I hope it wasn't an error because it's really the sort of thing the writer or editor should check, and could, with all of 5 seconds on Google. So I want them to have done this knowingly, for reasons.
This was a good issue, flowed well and it had a rather lovely cliff hanger.
Best Buffy since the first issue. Seems weird since they obviously had a real story to tell that they've sort of bumbled around for a year. This issue just sprung everything back to life and I feel hopeful we'll have a interesting Buffy to read to go with the three other lovely books.
I'm still disappointed w/BtVS S9, I think it is the weakest of the Buffy related titles (the best being Angel & Faith, with Spike and Willow tied for second). I didn't feel that it was flowing well, it seemed chopping and hard to read to me. And what is the deal with Illyria moving through time? She lost that ability in AtS S5!
@embers, Illyria regained much of her abilities in Angel: AtF.
I love this issue!

I hope Buffy learns how fulfilling adult relationships can be a la Dowling. She's reached a certain age, now; so, I don't buy her inability to function in a relationship without someone who's a vampire and/or pumped with quasi-super strength (Riley, i.e.)

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