This site will work and look better in a browser that supports web standards, but it is accessible to any browser or Internet device.

Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"You're at war with the human race. Oh. Kay."
11972 members | you are not logged in | 24 November 2020


December 21 2012

"The Avengers": One of the Most Disappointing Films of 2012? Screen Crave lists "The Avengers" as one of the top five most disappointing movies of the year and explains why.

So, the reviewer seemed to dislike everything that wasn't a fight scene? Gotta disagree heavily with them on that.

My main disappointment about Avengers was walking out of the theater afterwards and realizing we wouldn't get a sequel for a few more years.
Most Disappointing Most Disappointing list of 2012.
Sad thing is, I agree with the guy about DKR (and probably the Hobbit too, though I haven't actually seen it).

But Joss seems to be of the opinion that things are more fun when there's less-fun stuff too. I agree with him. And he is right. This reviewer is wrong.
I get where he's coming from. He expected more from Joss, from Quentin Tarantino, from Christopher Nolan, etc. But there's a big difference between something not being a director's "best work" and a director's best try or hardest attempt. It's a futile game because "best" is subjective. People are not going to unanimously agree that something is a director's best movie.

I don't think Avengers was Joss' best product, but I do think he did his best, like he does his best with all other projects. In contrast, I got a feeling from The Dark Knight Rises that Christopher Nolan mailed it in at times because I can't believe how many plot holes were there. It just didn't have the same devotion I saw from The Dark Knight and Inception. And I don't know if there's a director more passionate, frank, and meticulous about his own project than Quentin Tarantino.

[ edited by the ninja report on 2012-12-21 21:36 ]
The Avengers and The Dark Knight Rises? Bye.
This reminds me of Christmas morning with my ex's family..."Well, yeah, this present is an awesome thing, but it's not what I expected, so I don't really want it."
Well, I love both the Avengers and The Dark Knight Rises. Seems to me there's a bit too much wishing for or expecting things that aren't there and missing what is there.
It is hard to imagine anticipating the film from an angle that wasn't extremely pro-Joss (i.e. all of us) or entirely "Who is Joss?" (most of my friends, sadly). It seems like the person here is of this middle ground that is aware that Joss is good, but doesn't quite get him. Thankfully, that's a very small minority crowd, as a "Most Disappointing" list is the last place anyone I know would put The Avengers.
Interesting most disappointing list. I've not seen Django (not released here until next year,) or Hobbit (don't have any interest in Lord of the Rings,) but both seem to be doing critically well, with the former being up for numerous awards.

Loved Dark Knight Rises and The Avengers was as good as you would expect from a film that had to do so much. Absolutely no idea where this list is coming from.
Why should I listen to him? He didn't like Death Proof.

He's right about Dark Knight Rises though. Unless the dark knight in question was Joseph Gordon-Levitt.

[ edited by redeem147 on 2012-12-22 00:17 ]
That list makes me think I should check out Hyde Park on the Hudson.
Well, to each their own.

*walking away grumbling*
For me this is a mixed bag. I hated Dark Knight Rises with a fiery passion and was bored and disappointed by The Hobbit, but really enjoyed The Avengers. So I guess it just proves that people's opinions are not consistent with each other. Ooooo surprise, surprise.
First time I saw the Avengers I was disappointed, too. I actually fell asleep near the end, but was tired, so gave the film another try. Second time, I was disappointed, too. In part because I have high expectations for Joss' work. Also, there was relatively too much action and not enough character development. I prefer Joss' work heavy with clever dialog and wit, and while there was some, Angel and Firefly had more. I also prefer Joss' work that explores something about people, like Dollhouse and his script for Alien Resurection.
Ehh? Someone forgot to mix the "color" in the kool-aid.
I'm afraid "The Avengers" takes the most disappointing film of 2012 crown for me too. The epic action sequence probably was my favorite part of the film (except maybe for the Hawkeye and Black Widow scenes, which, unlike the reviewer, I absolutely loved, especially the latter) and that's really not something I'd expect from a Whedon film.

I'm not really into the Marvel universe (although I prefer Peter Parker over Batman and Superman and quite liked the Iron Man films), but I still had ridiculously high expectations because of Joss. I'm also not really into horror either and I really loved "The Cabin in the Woods", so I figured Joss could get me into superheroes too (I loved Buffy and Dr. Horrible after all and those were set in superhero universes of a kind I guess, so I hadn't imagined it would be too hard).

And you know he did actually, I certainly enjoyed the film. It was quite a fun super hero flick. But I had expected something much more special. With a manipulative Loki and a tormented Bruce Banner (really they're all tormented, as they should be in a Whedon flick), a bewildered Captain America, wise-cracking Tony Stark, clueless Thor, an extremely capable Black Widow, and a fan-boyish agent Phil Coulson, there just are so much ingredients for a brilliant Whedon flick that goes far beyond the epic action sequences, that I probably expected way more than could actually be delivered in one shiny package, even by Joss. Vandelay's comment: "The Avengers was as good as you would expect from a film that had to do so much" probably sums it up perfectly. There's more than enough there for a number of very interesting films, but now all of it seemed to lack sufficient room to breathe.

Basically I felt pretty much the same as eand so maybe I'll like it better if I see it a second time too (ETA: OK, just saw I misread the comment and that eand's second viewing wasn't much better. Still hope it will be for me though.) It probably didn't help that I was really swamped and quite tired, taking a rare brake from my thesis. Actually I really want to watch it again now, after writing this never ending comment.

"Django" isn't out here yet, I'll go see "The Hobbit" tomorrow, also hope to see "Hyde Park on the Hudson" sometime. So I really hope I'll disagree with this guy about all of those, if only to make up for agreeing about Whedon's film a little.

[ edited by the Groosalugg on 2012-12-22 18:03 ]
I have always very high expectations of Joss, he is after all the Purple Avenger, but I am also very surprised to find that many seem to think that Joss could turn a action movie with an already set universe and a large amount of equally set characters and a hard to please fan following into The Body. An acrobat inside a coffin would have a better room to manoeuvre.

That said, I think Joss did a surprisingly good job with the hand he was given.
The thing about art is that it's always subjective.Every film(or book or pice of music eitc) is going to have someone who doesn't like it.

I mean I know someone personally who thought Skyfall was the worst Bond films ever and most critics and people online thought it was one of the best Bond films.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2012-12-22 18:41 ]
I think some people are idiots. Some people are not idiots, but like to stir the pot. I suspect the compiler of the list falls into either of those categories. Anyway, a website I am unlikely to ever visit again.
I am surprised by the lackluster love for the Avengers today! I mostly just lurk on this sight and never comment, but today I feel inspired to say something about the Avengers. Tastes are subjective and all, but to me the Avengers was the greatest superhero movie of all time--and it is a little unfair to compare it with the others, really, because it had the three next greatest superhero movies leading into it (by which I mean Iron Man I, Captain America, Thor---note that I do _not_ include Iron Man II and that Hulk movie). I don't consider it a disadvantage of the Avengers that it had these other films leading up to it--I think it makes a fitting climax and brings the characters together amazingly well--but it does make it a little hard to judge the movie by the same standards as other superhero films --because in a way it is its own thing, sui generis. So although I probably should try to confine my remarks the Avengers, I won't; I'm going to say something about these other films as well. Each of these films IMO far outclassed the next closest decent superhero movies, which in IMO were the X-men movies. I have to say I was always disappointed by every single other superhero movie I have ever seen in some way or another. One could make a long list of all the things wrong with the various Superman, Batman, etc., movies that have been made through the years...but that would be the subject of another very long post. I note that the reviewer who was disappointed by the Avengers really disliked Hawkeye and Black Widow, a sentiment I cannot share. It's been said a million times, but there were a lot of characters in the movie and they all needed to be served. We got two great scenes with the Black Widow, plus a couple of really cool stand out lines (one of which, "It'll be fun..." was one of my favorite moments of the film, actually) AND her fight with Hawkeye. Hawkeye got to raid the helicarrier and still had some great moments in the big fight at the end. The relationship between them was interesting considering the small amount of time that could be devoted to it in the circumstances--and let's not forget that both characters were well cast and well served by first rate actors (something not usually the case in most superhero movies IMO). One thing that Avengers, Iron Man I, Captain America and Thor had in common as movies (and that most superhero movies don't have) is a good organic structure in which every part of the film served the whole and nothing seemed unnecessary or tacked on. (Whereas in most other superhero movies, there is always some scene or character or subplot the removal of which would have improved the movie.) Iron Man I, Captain America, and Thor each had a great, simple and yet profound and emotionally engaging character arc, thus generating three equally great and yet remarkably and interesting different heroes. That in itself was a unique feat that should be examined at length and appreciated (it would make a great subject of an essay--had I time enough I would write it), and that is to the credit of the writers and creators of those films--but then Joss really topped it all off by taking those three great cinematic versions of three great comic book heroes and then managing to fit them all into a larger tapestry with other equally interesting and very distinct characters--into a movie which itself also had an overall arc and some mini-arcs, and came together with the organic beauty of of a Beethoven symphony. In closing I should say that I don't think Joss is infallible (he _has_ occasionally done things that _did_ disappoint me --for instance, I was unhappy with some of the directions in the Buffy Season 8 comics)--and considering some of his recent comments about how he had wanted another villain in the Avengers and would have liked to shoehorn in the Wasp, I'm not sure that under other circumstances, left to his own instincts, he might not have blown the Avengers. So I do worry a little about Avengers II --and about Marvel phase two in general. But I LOVED the above segment of phase one culminating in the Avengers, and just felt the need to express it. That sense of everything working together to contribute to an overall unified aesthetic effect is what Joss is often able to do --Serenity was another outstanding example-- that, and his ability to get simple but important emotions and ideas to underlie whatever is going on in the more obvious surface level of action or drama. [Sorry for going on so long]
Joss is an excellent storyteller, especially when the story the is all his own. He also works best in television, when he can slowly build-up to something that can be appreciated at the end of a season or series.

Considering all of the established stories and characters that already exist in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and elements drawn from the comics, I think Joss did an above average job.

I enjoyed the movie on its initial viewing, but it's not something I would be eager to watch again. There is a lot of exposition and necessary build-up to make all of the characters relevant, and already having that information going into the movie a second time can make it feel like it is dragging things out too long to get to those handful of memorable scenes that made us cheer the first time we saw the film. In my eyes its comparable to being forced to watch the pilot of a show every time you wanted to watch a new episode. After a while you just want to get to the good stuff.
The Hobbit certainly did not disappoint. It was perfect. I liked Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings trilogy, but I loved The Hobbit. A rare perfect magical cinematic experience. IMO it definitely does not belong on a list of most disappointing anything.
As a lifelong Tolkien fan and a fan of the LOTR movies I was disspointed by The Hobbit. *shrug*

The Avengers isn't my favourite Joss project but I came out of the movie thinking that Joss had left more of his personal trademark style, mostly in the dialogue ("does mother know you wearth her drapes"), than I had been expecting considering everything the movie had to do. When Marvel originally annouced the movie years ago, a lot of people thought it would never be done or be a giagantic mess considering how many characters, and movie stars it would have to work with. That it is not only the 3rd highest grossing movie of all time but has over 90% fresh reviews on RT is something of a miracle to me. But like everything YMMV and I can see why some people don't like it. Like I said its not my favourite Joss project but I can't consider it disappointing by any standard.

This thread has been closed for new comments.

You need to log in to be able to post comments.
About membership.

joss speaks back home back home back home back home back home