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Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"I am NOT a sidekick!"
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March 14 2013

Joss Whedon on Kickstarter and Firefly: "Right now, it's a complete non-Kickstarter for me". He says that the success of the Veronica Mars Kickstarter campaign "doesn't just open the floodgates" for Firefly/Serenity.

Drat. More "maybe eventually"s.
Nothing overly surprising here, though it's nice to get a little surprise interview with Joss and demonstrate quite clearly that the issue isn't simply, "Oh, Joss just never thought of doing that," as some Twitter users would have you believe.
I'm glad he addressed this - happily, my twitter-feed was not flooded yesterday with calls for another Serenity/Firefly movie, but I'll bet some were... not to mentioned deleted posts here.

I'd love another Firefly series - that's how I liked it best, when Joss et al. could spin out the story-telling more slowly - and I wouldn't care *how* old the actors are: I got no problem with "Firefly: Fifteen Years After" or whatever.

But Joss & others are waaay committed elsewhere, the IP is a bitch, who's alive & who's dead is contentious, and it just ain't gonna happen now.

Hopefully - but I am not all that sanguine - this will forestall Joss being asked about it for the near future.
He's right that the VM Kickstarter is kind of a unique situation. You've got a proven concept (the three seasons on TV), the writer and main characters are completely on board before the drive started, and it is low cost (modern, mostly talky, not much SFX).

Kickstarter might have worked for Much Ado About Nothing, but even then, we wouldn't have known about Joss's vision ahead of time.
"This interview has been edited and condensed."

... so where's the rest?
I love Firefly/Serenity, but more at this point might be like trying to put arms back on the Venus de Milo.
I think if he ever chooses to go this sort of route with Firefly, it could easily eclipse (by a wide margin) the amount that Veronica Mars is pulling in. However, I didn't think anything would be happening any time soon with his current commitments.

But aside from Firefly, I feel that this is something that he might want to consider in the future for funding some other original works. I know people have bandied about the idea of a subscription service where you pay to have access to whatever new properties he might come up with. I know I'd be totally down with that sort of thing.
Really glad this has been dealt with so quickly. Better to dash some fans' hopes right away. I mean, I'm sorry he won't be doing anything, but it wasn't a surprise.
I absolutely love Firefly and would pay a lot to see it (or whatever Joss wanted to do with it, because it would have to be helmed by Joss!). But I totally accept that he would need to wait until he is free of Marvel commitments (I'm cool w/Firefly 15-20 years later, that would work for me), and that Joss would want the ship, Serenity (the most expensive part of the movie, I'd guess). Of course many fans, like me, would be happy w/the BDHs just sitting around the dinner table talking (like 'My Dinner With Andre' but in space). Whatever.

I certainly wouldn't bug Joss about it, mostly because I believe that he loves the universe he created as much as I do.

The question of fans giving money without being 'investors' is really not a problem that fans would have: we don't expect to have an ownership stake. Frankly I think that the swag I'll get for supporting 'Veronica Mars' is more than enough, I would have donated money just for the email up-dates and knowing that I've expressed my love for a show that still means a great deal to me.
I can't see Joss being free to do any "big projects" outside of his Marvel scope for years to come. But, maybe then, he can kickstart something special (not saying Firefly related, but something on his own terms, there's plenty of fans to back him at least a good chunk of the way).
I think people should wait and see for a bit, how this thing pans out. I'm not quite sure of the mechanics of kickstarter, since I'm in the UK, but do these pledges really amount to guaranteed money in the bank?

Because I keep thinking of one of the early episodes of Angel..(And there was a show that really should have been brought back..) where there's a scene where Cordelia is overjoyed at having a cheque, and Doyle tries to gently bring her back down to Earth by explaining that it's just a piece of paper, and not really money in hand. Much to Cordelia's exasperated response that they have to pay up as "That's like the rule of our whole society!" And doesn't Doyle then say something like "Yeah but defaulting on that is another popular rule.."

I mean I hope I am being overly cynical here, because I really do want this to succeed. But I sometimes worry at people getting their hearts broken over maybe being just a little too over enthusiastic in their hopes for this type of project..
Pledges are tied to credit card numbers, Jas. As long as the person has sufficient funds, the money will be withdrawn on April 11th.
I know I'm probably in the minority, but I am completely fine if Firefly stays in the land of an occasional comic. I think Joss did a great job with Serenity (despite the meager box office showing), and it had a very good 'end' feel to it. I'd much rather see him continue to push himself with new IP and give all of us fangirls yet another thing to squeal about. Kickstart that!
I would love to see a movie for shows like Deadwood, Gilmore Girls or Carnivale.
What Meltha said. Joss was very wise to get out in front of this before some wacky internet campaign started--haven't we already had a few of those for the 'verse?--because Firefly/Serenity was/is awesome and we love it and like crackheads we all want just...a...little...more. I do hope fans get over the idea at some point, because I have no doubt in my mind that it's over and everyone involved has moved on. Joss would never say as much because in a perfect universe of magic, he would have Firefly in production for the rest of his life in an endless six season and a movie cycle, and he has too much respect for his peeps. But he and the rest of the cast live down here with us where you can occasionally do the impossible, but you don't generally do it again and again and again.
To add what Jobo pointed out in how KickStarter works, it's actually tried to your Amazon account. You select your credit card and make the purchase but it doesn't go through unless and until the project is successful. If when charging the money the item doesn't go through KickStarter sends you a few email warnings about it and I think you have around 2 weeks before they kick you out and you are no longer a backer. I've been a backer of a project after losing my credit card and getting a new number, so I had to go through that of setting up a new card with Amazon and putting it through.

People who have successful projects have said they end up losing a few backers, but I think the typical rate for KickStarter is a bit under 1% of backers, so really not that high.

The Veronica Mars KickStarter is now at $3.2 million, so it will easily be funded this point even if it lost a high number of backers. It's getting a lot of media attention that is helping it connect to fans. Day 2 was already slower than day 1 and I imagine it will continue to slow down and then speed up a bit towards the deadline. So it's hard to say how it will end up in 29 days from now. That said I wouldn't be surprised if it landed somewhere between $7 and $10 million.
With there being so little time to even get Doctor Horrible 2 off the ground, I wonder when Joss will have time to work on Wastelanders. Unless the script he and Warren Ellis was working on is now ready, and Joss plans on getting someone else to direct it like "In Your Eyes". Still, I think that would be a great way to raise money for Wastelanders as well a way promote the project.
This article was linked by the old Help Nathan Buy Firefly page on Facebook. It's ragingly apparent that almost no one in the comments there actually bothered to read it. That's a good illustration of precisely why it's good Joss tried to tamp this down rather quickly.
I suspect Wastelanders is not really being worked on at this stage. We haven't heard anything about it for a while right? Hope it doesn't go the same way as some of his unrealised project. Sucks, but I'm sure he is having a great time working on Marvel things.
I was very sad to see jos got this deal with marvel. Joss loves comics, and comic lovers love joss. But, his strongest work comes from the characters he created. I can clearly see a lot more invested in how he shares the characters with us. Making the audience love his characters the way he does. This did not come through in his marvel work. Im sure the Shakespeare film will br fun, but they were not his characters. Im sure that a Serenity sequel would be much more of a masterpiece than any of the work he got locked into for the next three years.
Um. Mr.Arg, there has been several articles within the past 6 months posted here showing that the firefly crew has not given up on the popossibility of brining it back. And you shouldn't hate on fans that are ambitious to getting the crew back. After all that is how Serenity was made.
Fans didn't get Serenity made; they mainly just reassured Universal by their existence. And then, in the end, they weren't enough and no one else showed up. So...

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2013-03-15 05:23 ]
Honestly, I'd rather see Wastelanders at this point anyway .... I mean, I'd love more Firefly/Serenity, but for a while now I've been resigned to the fact that a lot of stars would have to align for that to happen .... and they probably never will.

I'd gotten my hopes up for Wastelanders, though, because it sounded like it *was* really happening, and it sounds awesome. If it turns into another Goners due to this whole Marvel deal, I will be sad. Very happy Joss has the Marvel deal, since it's (a) something he wants to do, and (b) fantastic for his career. But still I will be sad, if it means the small crazy projects (read: Wastelanders, and to a lesser extent DH2) fall by the wayside.
Wastelanders is the thing I wanna see the most. But it seems that project is going the way of The Serving Girl.
I too am anticipating Wastelanders more than anything else, but I feel too like it'll be a long game. Joss is busy for the next few years (through 2015 at least) and not just kinda busy, but busy like making the sequel to the third highest grossing movie ever.

From various interviews, it sounds like Wastelanders is going to be an involved project -- i.e. not a 12 day shoot in someone's house -- and was close to being good to go before Joss was offered The Avengers. If Warren Ellis is content to wait on the man, then so am I.
If anything this will stop those people who think we are Joss Whedon from tweeting us.
What about a Kickstarter program for the Clone Joss Whedon Campaign? I'm sure he could do with a couple of extra Josses running around to help get all of his projects done.
Personally - I think Firefly could absolutely work on Kickstarter if Fox went along with it - but not now or soon. Everybody is gloriously busy (same with Dr. Horrible). Plus, story wise, I'd love to see something further down the line, when the people who are "old cranky men"* aren't just Mal.

*Said in the stereotype way.

[ edited by gossi on 2013-03-15 10:48 ]
Butler Marvel IS allowing Joss & co to create new characters. S.H.I.E.L.D. is using only one existing character (plus potential guest spots down the line). The main cast consists of 5 entirely new characters in addition to Agent Coulson.
I just don't see Firefly episodes or a Serenity movie happening because, as Joss said, things still cost a lot. I think what is more feasible (as far as practicality, not Joss' schedule) is a series of webisodes. I love his original characters but I love comic books and other peoples' characters too. I just don't think necessarily that one is superior to the other just because it's Joss. A LOT of brilliant minds came before Joss.

Butler, I don't think it's necessary for characters to be Joss' to be brilliant still. And I have trouble wrapping my head around Much Ado being "less" of his work - Shakespeare is masterpiece work. Filmmakers and writers trip all over themselves trying to adapt it. It's lasted for centuries. For anyone to do it successfully instead of just reading words on a page is a feat.

[ edited by the ninja report on 2013-03-15 12:41 ]
Ah right. So kickstarter is tied to credit cards and amazon. I was wondering how it works. Thanks for the responses! That does clarify things.

As for Firefly/Serenity, as much as I love the characters and would like to see something down the line, I do wish people would stop pestering him about it. When I met him, I was actually an inch away from apologising on behalf of every fan who's put it to him in Q & A s. Because I think if it ever is going to be possible Joss will do it. But folks have to leave him to it, and let him get on with the other things he wants to do just now.
I mean Angel was my favourite show, and as much as I wish he would be able to create a follow up, I'm not annoyed that he's doing Avengers 2. As that too has characters that I love, (and maybe more of them if he's allowed to introduce more members in the sequel..) And the thought of Joss doing an 'Empire strikes Back style' follow up to a comic book movie is tremendously exciting. It could end up being the best comic book movie EVER made. And so as a result might really set a new standard there for Hollywood movies. And if it is that much of a better movie, it's going to prove to Hollywood that the first was no fluke. So by that point I think he really will have a lot of the where withall to start up his own projects. I mean he's not James Cameron. He's not gonna vanish for 10 years between films, even though he might have earned the rest! LOL!
What about a Kickstarter program for the Clone Joss Whedon Campaign? I'm sure he could do with a couple of extra Josses running around to help get all of his projects done.

I would be down for that, but how much of Joss's awesomeness is genetic vs environmental, and it would take years before Joss 2.0 is old enough to start creating, but all those things aside, I'd support that.
Joss said, "And of course, there's the other fear: What if it's not that good? I can do something that's not that good — that's fine. But if I do that and it's not that good, I'm going to feel really stupid."

How in Hades could that ever happen? 14 great episodes, and one really awesome movie and all of a sudden it's not good? Not.gonna.happen.

I am content to wait.
MP and Valantha: Too much risk that it will split Joss's qualities. We'll end up with an evil Joss and... an evil-er Joss. Or maybe it will be like God Emperor of Dune, but with Joss ghola trying to assassinate himself (but being stymied by his sandtrout invulnerability).
How in Hades could that ever happen?

Serenity Revolutions?
I get his concern about getting asked to do Firefly/Serenity over and over again, because fans usually want more of shows they already love. But a good campaign has to start with him wanting to do something and I'd argue, we're quite open to any new ideas by him.

But there's a different problem. I just read another Rob Thomas interview, where he states that the Veronica Mars Movie will have to be a "give them what they want"-deal and I hope he won't go overboard trying to make everyone happy...

[ edited by veraishq on 2013-03-15 15:28 ]
SHIELD is going to be made for Marvel's universe, which THEY control and determine its direction.
My reaction to the marvel deal was it was a sellout move. But I took solace in thinking joss is going to make a lot of money so that he can fund his own work in the future, like a possible Serenity follow up, and have complete creative control.

[ edited by Butler on 2013-03-15 15:45 ]
Beth, is that Agent Coulson before or after he died?

How about a Kickstarter campaign to imprint Joss' personality on Enver Gjoki. Saves the potential risks of cloning.
I think the cast and crew would be loathe to insult the fan base by saying anything but "wow, wouldn't that be great?" Hypothetically speaking, sure, it would be great. But I don't see it happening at any point going forward. Reading between the lines of this article, and especially in his comment about not living up to the quality of preceeding episodes and movie, I personally think that's where Joss is at too.
You know, I really like the crowd funding model, and would actually prefer a world where instead of paying for cable packages, I paid directly to have a show made by a person whose work I adore. There should also be a large fund to donate to where anyone could take money to make a short form project, so new people had a way of gaining traction.
I'm glad he addressed it so quickly & more importantly loved The Godfather reference.
I'm interested to see how much Veronica Mars gets, donation wise?

My prediction is between $10 million and $20 million, but who knows? It could go as high as $30 or $40 million. I think $20 million would be a pretty decent budget for a Veronica Mars movie.

Also, I think a Firefly movie can be done on a pretty modest budget, the original pilot to Firefly cost about $10 million. Likewise the Battlestar Galactica mini-series budget was also $10 million dollars. There is no reason they couldn't make a Firefly movie or mini-series for under $40 million in this day and age.
PaperSpock I agree completely, I am currently paying (what I believe to be) an obscene amount of money for satellite that gives me a boat load of stuff I don't want (and a few things I do want). I would be much happier helping to fund projects I adore. I do not want to control content within those projects, I trust the creators to make things that will amaze me (ie be far better than anything I would ever come up with).
Simon, still pretending he's not Joss Whedon. Lawl. Just give up man.

I think all the points are valid about the difference -- the money for a VM shooting budget from kickstarter wouldn't cover a good set piece for a rollicking scifi action/adventure, let alone the whole thing. Then, yeah, you've got to get all your birds back in the nest to actually make the thing, and that would take casting a much wider net for Joss than it will for Rob Thomas at the moment. And the other elephant in the room is... Firefly/Serenity isn't Marvel, so its off the table until at least 2015 whether he wants it to be or not.

EDIT: As for guessing the total on the VM budget, I still figure this will taper off sooner than later, but I am modestly hoping that they'll be able to start filming with a shooting budget of ~$10 million. $8 million of car chases and nudity, or Ryan Hansen is a liar.

[ edited by KingofCretins on 2013-03-15 17:00 ]
I would be pretty shocked if the VM kickstarter got much higher than 4-5 mil, it is the story of the week but attention/donations are tapering off. Just read in an interview with Thomas that a series episode production cost was 1.8 mil, so they basically shot for that budget plus extra for the reward packages.
zoic,I think they could do a firefly movie for 20 mill and I think it would make at least 50 million before dvd, bluray sales. Serenity cost 30 mill, made 30 mill, but yea, cost is cheaper now, movie tickets cost more, there are a lot more firefly fans established over the past ten years, and probably a lot moe joss fans after the avengers. If joss used his own money, it would be a smart business investment.
Well, they already have enough to shoot an episode of "Lost" instead of an episode of "Veronica Mars", and assuming they take an aim-small, miss-small approach to effects and stunt production needs.
I'm in on Joss 2.0. Go Kickstarter cloning!
But, but... Joss seems so eager in this quote I found on The Onion. ;)

“Wowee, if Kristen Bell can raise a million bucks on the ’net, I’ll bet a guy like me, Joss Whedon, could really clean up.”

Joss Whedon –
Film And Television Producer

Even if we ignore all the other roadblocks - and we shouldn't - just the price tag to build the Serenity set (for the third time) would eat a huge chunk of budget.

Which got me to thinking (and yeah, OT): I wonder why Universal didn't save the set from the film? Seems like they could have put it in a small corner of one of their theme parks and charged folks like me $5 to sit in Wash's seat and play with the dinosaurs - and another $10 for the photo of me doing so. Or would there just be millions of park visitors shuffling by, staring quizzically and asking "What's a Serenity?"
That set couldn't be put in a "small corner" of anything.
I loved Firefly profoundly, and will always count it among my favorite shows of all time. That being said, I'm so weary of the fan questions about a return and I'm glad Joss nipped this one in the bud as early as possible.
Another angle here is "Buffy" and the rule that if you want something done right, do it yourself. Kickstarter for Joss to either make a Buffy movie or do his own film reboot with 20th using any movie option they have to their television rights? That would be allowed to use characters from the show, unlike the sequel rights to the original? Would still have to wait until after Marvel, but still.
Joss doesn't need kickstarter for anything. He has a studio.
I still have mixed feelings about the whole thing. I feel like on some level this is one where Kickstarter really should convert into some sort of shares or something. Because what no one is saying is (and self publishing is like this), if a studio or a publisher can remove all risk from themselves they're going to do it. Especially on anything cultish. I've watched a Shadowrun video game do this as well. Are new projects that aren't based on pre-existing phenomenon going to be able to get funded if this becomes the "new" default funding?

As for Joss, this isn't surprising. He's broken through the wall. I'm not sure Buffy will ever be in the cards again. As much fun as it might be, the aging of the actors and especially the vampires makes a big screen return problematic. Firefly on the other hand I could see, but I wonder if he'd try concentrating on a different ship and a different cast or perhaps a different story altogether in the same universe.
Kickstarter can't convert to a shares/equity/securities approach, because equity crowdfunding isn't legal yet. And even under the JOBS Act (now law), the rules the SEC eventually will release still require you to be an "accredited investor" under the law. And "random guy or gal on the Internet" won't qualify.
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here (I hear those who are sick to death of the topic) but I do feel that as Joss himself gets older, he'll want to do the story of the aging Mal trying to continue 'out on the rim'. I can wait. Obviously it isn't going to happen any time soon, but so long as I'm alive I'll be wanting it.

Buffy has gotten so far in the comics that I don't even know what universe we'd be trying to get back to with a BtVS movie! Similarly with Angel, the comics have already resolved ghost Wesley, there really isn't anywhere to go with that either. Of course I could be wrong, but I certainly wouldn't donate to the idea of rehashing ground we've already covered.

Now Dollhouse is full of possibilities, and I would adore seeing Doctor Horrible on the big screen (or better yet, on Broadway! If those South Park guys could do it then so could Joss!). I don't know enough about Goners or Wastelanders, but if Joss did want to raise funds on kickstarter then I'm right there with him. No question!

I do understand azzers' position: evidently Warner Brothers was worried about the situation w/kickstarter and seem to be proceeding with Veronica Mars as though they have allowed an independent film (which they will promote and distribute) to be made from a property they own the rights to. It is obviously complicated and their lawyers have (I assume) viewed it from all sides. But I do think this would only work with fan favorites. I could see 'Pushing Daisies' managing to get a resolution in this same kind of way, but I don't see that very many studios own the rights to that many things that could be funded in this way. I certainly don't think studios could get people online to just donate to them (for new projects they completely control)!

But maybe some writers could get a pilot funded in this way? Would that be taking advantage of fans who care about that writer? Would it be 'wrong'? It seems like a way for fans to push forward creators they believe in rather than leaving all the power in the hands of network suits. But what do I know?
I don't see where Warner was "worried" about the situation with Kickstarter. This thing only happened because Thomas and Warner agreed that if he could get the funds raised to make it, Warner would distribute it. What was there to worry about? If the funder failed, Warner lost nothing. if it succeeded, they had a movie to try to make money on.
According to Rob Thomas Warner Brothers waited a year before making that agreement, he indicated that during that year Warner Brothers made their lawyers go over details with kickstarter to make sure that this was legal/possible.

That was more than a year ago, and Thomas came very very close to convincing Warner Bros. to give him permission to try it at the time, in hopes they would film during Kristen Bell's hiatus after the first season of "House of Lies." But studio executives backed off, preferring to have their attorneys go over the possibilities with a fine-toothed comb to ensure they weren't exposing themselves to legal action by teaming with Kickstarter.

Read more at this article here

[ edited by embers on 2013-03-15 21:10 ]

[ edited by embers on 2013-03-15 21:11 ]
zoic,I think they could do a firefly movie for 20 mill and I think it would make at least 50 million before dvd, bluray sales. Serenity cost 30 mill, made 30 mill, but yea, cost is cheaper now, movie tickets cost more, there are a lot more firefly fans established over the past ten years, and probably a lot moe joss fans after the avengers. If joss used his own money, it would be a smart business investment.

Costs are cheaper now, sure, but lots of other things aren't. $20 million won't buy you that much. The pilot episode for Fringe was $10 million, and that was 81 minutes (Edited to change the running time. I thought it was one episode, but it was two made to look like one) and had a much smaller cast, plus fewer special effects. This is a fanbase that is widespread and loud, but is it so numerous?

I disagree that Joss could fund this or should fund this. First of all, it's a lot of money. Second of all, if he actually could fund it and had wanted to fund it, I think the studio would have thought about saying yes already. The issue is that $20 million (which is low for a movie of the scope a Serenity sequel would be) is still a lot of money to invest. Joss is rich, but he's not stupid. A Serenity sequel might not actually make any money.

b!x, I think Warner Bros. was "worried" in the sense that it wasn't entirely sure it could legally use money raised from Kickstarter, and wanted to make sure first before telling Rob Thomas he could pursue it. The worry wasn't about whether the project would be funding, but rather whether Warner Bros. would get into legal trouble by being involved with a Kickstarter campaign in the first place.

[ edited by the ninja report on 2013-03-15 21:07 ]
I would be all for a Kickstarter program for an internet-based series if they could guarantee that Joss touched the scripted at one point or another. (Even if it means breaking into his house and stealing all of his printer paper. We know what the house looks like now so it won't be long until Joss finds it paperless! :P)

Seriously, if they did a Kickstarter for Dr Horrible during the Writers Strike, I would've invested into it. Of course now that he has Marvel/Disney paying him what I presume is a handsome sum of money, he may not need the money anymore. However, if anything should happen (Marvel/Disney's check bounces, etc.), he'll know we've got his back on any independent, low-budget (less than the budget for Avengers) project. There's only a few writer-directors I would say that for.
I guess I didn't read that as "worried" so much as standard operating procedure of doing due diligence.
Maybe in the Wastelanders universe, world savers will get Kickstarter funding.
Yeah, I was thinking about the investment aspect today, too. There is potential for people to get a little hosed, even on projects that actually do work. Throwing money at someone to realize their idea already had a niche in our society, and it proliferates on the promise of return on investment. Right now the only ROI is... you see the intention of the project manifest, i.e. we see this movie. For the money that we'll pay to see it. I don't think many of these donators would feel like "... hey!" if Veronica Mars went all My Big Fat Greek Blair Witch Project at the box office, but for a lot of projects of the "help me invent my motorcized quintcycle" and that guy makes a bajillion dollars, that would chafe a bit to someone who had thrown a few hundred at the prototype on kickstarter.

The only kickstarter idea I ever had was to see about raising money to get Lady Gaga to sing the national anthem at a major sporting event, but in the dry and conventional way one's middle school choir teacher would expect, straight no chaser. But there's probably not enough money in the world to make that happen, lol.
You throw a few hundred at Kickstarter, you get stuff. And I really don't think investing a few hundred in most films will get you much. Maybe a thank you credit if it's a low budget film.
Yeah but it's less of an "investment" and more of a "pre- order". I mean, you get's not like you donate money to a cause and they make a bazillion dollars and you get diddly. You get whatever you paid for in advance.
Right. Like with the Veronica Mars kickstarter, for $35 you get a pdf script, a t-shirt, access to behind the scenes material as the movie is made, and a digital download of the movie. If the movie goes on to make a healthy profit, good. I still got my $35 worth. Kickstarter is a fundraising platform; an arts patronage site. You're helping get a project out in the world. There's no expectation of return other than the goodies you essentially pre-paid for.
KingofCretins, I'd contribute to that.
I hope the next step will be a well-conceived Kickstarter campaign to fund content for TV. I spend a lot more hours at home watching TV on my nice flat screen than I do in movie theaters. I also prefer the longer-form, novelistic possibilities of television to the ninety minute movie, which rarely does justice to anything more complex than a short story.

The obvious first opportunity would be fan support for a TV series that has had at least one season and is on the bubble for renewal. The object wouldn't be to pay for an entire season, but to make it a break even proposition for the studio. Downside is that if this worked a few times, TV studios might start holding their less popular shows to ransom for continuation.

I'm ready for campaigns to fund made for TV movies, miniseries or BBC-style short TV seasons derived from shows I already watch or by writers whose work I like. Given that more Serenity isn't possible for awhile, more Deadwood is at the top of my list.
More Terriers. Yall remember that one?
Terriers averaged less than 700,000 viewers over a single season, can't get a DVD release, and no one knows what it was. Good luck kickstarting something there. ;)
Terriers was really good. A DVD release of the one season would be great, but if I could watch it again, I'd probably want to see more of it... and that's even more unlikely.
I think this interview is very disappointing although it's not without it's charm.I always looked at the Avengers as a kind of paycheck movie, and I hoped that Joss would use this success to set up shop for himself but unfortunately this interview gives me the impression that he could be sucked into the quagmire of complacency
(remind you of angel anyone?)
I was surprised that he put Dr horrible 2 on the back burner and is now snubbing his nose at the possibility of another Firefly (haven't heard much about Wastelanders in a while either)
seems like he's less interested now in the conceptual and more concerned about scale (and of course that would be everyone's cue to point out the small independent film he just released)
Yes, I am grateful for Much ado but if a piece of nostalgia written by someone else is enough for Joss to rest the future of his uncompromising artistic integrity on then it seems more like a commemoration of the past rather than a promise to the future.

[ edited by JayD on 2013-03-17 22:43 ]

[ edited by JayD on 2013-03-17 22:47 ]

[ edited by JayD on 2013-03-17 22:54 ]
JayD, I don't think he would pursue anything he didn't want to do and so I believe you are removing a ton of personal choice from the equation, which is strange because it's not your life. You can think anything you want about his decisions but since they're not yours to make, saying he's ruining his future is just... Well, it means nothing.
Yeah, the opportunity to oversee Phase 2 of the Marvel Cinematic Universe isn't one that is lightly passed up. If this pans out (and I have no reason to think it won't), Joss will have set himself up financially and career-wise for life. I'm sure he doesn't want to devote the next 10 years of his life to Marvel, so after Avengers 2 I expect he'll pursue other projects. His career was a bit of a slow burn post-Buffy until Avengers hit. He has opportunities now that he may not have a few years from now. I totally understand why he'd want to take advantage of that while he can. I won't begrudge anyone their choices especially when he's finally broken through to the mainstream and is gaining new fans. I personally know of some people who gave his TV shows a shot because they liked Avengers so much. He can only get better from here.
Well ninja report, I'm pretty sure we are all on this site because we care about each others opinions, and when you have great respect for an artist, I think it's important to hold them to account critically and not just be a fan. People in Hollywood aren't always able to make their own decisions, which is why I understood when Joss did the Avengers... but that's a far cry from signing a 3 year deal with Marvel, and putting passion projects on hold simply so that you can have an uninterrupted continuum of fame and access. The implication seems to be in this interview that after the 3 years is over he would be perfectly willing to go right out and sign another deal with Marvel, and I just wonder after all that time and effort put into Marvel, whether he'll really even have the energy or even the will to pursue the things he at one time claimed we're most important to him.
Yeah, there's a difference between "hold them to account critically' and assigning to Joss the motivation to "have an uninterrupted continuum of fame and access".
Pretty sure Joss is quite excited about the stories he's going to tell with Marvel.
And so am I.
What I meant by access is easy access to the resources of the studio system and when I said fame I wasn't implying that he's vain. He wants the ability to communicate to a large audience which of course would be the advantage of being famous for some people.

[ edited by JayD on 2013-03-18 19:24 ]
According to the Much Ado Press release Kai Cole is "preparing
Bellwether's upcoming slate, including the Internet series Wastelanders" and the sequel to "Dr. Horrible's Sing-­‐Along blog". "
Which suggests that these are indeed still important to him.
Where's that, Lioness?
I can't find it, either.

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