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March 20 2013

You are my sunshine, my only sunshine. Why Wesley and Fred were different (or, Much Ado about AtS).

I could not agree more with this!!!

A part of me will feel like such a hipster when I'm at the theater screaming "Fred and Wesley!!! None of you understand!" Haha
So true. That song make me all watery eyed and lower lip trembly to this day. In a manly way of course ...
Aww, that's so cute - and true. However irrational it seems, seeing Bea & Ben together at the end of this movie will help lift the lingering pain left by Fred & Wes. This will seem very weird to some.
It's funny, I'm not the crying type. (At all!) But when I saw this in Dublin there was one scene between the two of them, a VERY intense scene, where I noticed to my own shock that there was a tear running down the side of my cheek. As their performances are just that good. Not to mention that Joss has changed enough things about Bea and Ben's relationship in this, that you can't help wondering if they're going to have another tragic ending. And yeah part of it is because of the things the author speaks about in this piece.
I haven't even seen the movie yet but just seeing the photos of them together feels like closure. For me, it's not only about love for Fred and Wesley, but Amy and Alexis are the greatest screen couple since Hepburn and Tracy.
Love this. Thanks for posting, btwreader613.

I think its time to break out the DVDs and return to Pylea, again...
Oddly, I barely noticed it at the time. Other couples had me sobbing, but this one had no effect on me at all. Until I read this article I forgot they had been a couple at all.
sorry.
alittlebitbison; Not weird at all in show-biz terms. Actors who show a chemistry in one property are so often cast together again, well less now than in the studio days but still. And many fans have reactions like yours, I know I tend to it. And lots of people make jokes (and in some cases, serious comments) connecting two characters an actor has played.
Where it gets legitimately weird is, for example, my favorite Whedonvet actress dated an actor who looks a lot like me for 6-7 years and my reaction was "well, I like it, it's the closest I'll ever get to a date with her." And considering I'm not the only person in fandom who reasons like that, there's where it gets weird.

Amrita; It's hard for me to see because they had such a short window of "per se romantic" scenes together, but I definitely get your point. (Also, full disclosure, when it comes to most on-screen couples, I suffer from Aly/Amber-induced blindness.)

drlloyd11: Considering Wesley/Fred were an actual couple for about 5 seconds, it's understandable.

[ edited by DaddyCatALSO on 2013-03-20 16:19 ]
When I say Amy and Alexis were a great screen couple, I don't mean only the few times when they were a smooching romantic couple. Their chemistry was phenomenal in every scene they were in together. They're magical.
This is so true. There are so many reasons why I can't wait to see Much Ado, and this last one feels so perfect and unreal, it makes it that much more special. I feel emotional watching the trailer and looking at the promotional pictures, so I have no idea how I'll be when actually watching them together in the movie.
Amrita: Agreed. I just tend to only see romantic chemistry in romantic scenes and I don't generalize too well from other scenes to it, personal limitation. (Also, even though I've done it myself, comparing fictional couples to Hepburn and Tracy makes me feel a little spooky since they were also a real-life couple.)

[ edited by DaddyCatALSO on 2013-03-20 18:06 ]
True enough. Fred and Wes always had the "two that hooked up at the office vibe" whereas every other romance had that supernatural vibe to it. I want to say maybe Xander and Cordy would have been similar, but Cordy was such a character at that stage it just didn't fit the more subdued, normal romance mold.

To this day I have a hard time watching that episode unless I want to cry.
azzers: By "such a character at that stage" do you mean "despite the added depth, still fundamentally a stereotyped 'bad rich girl'"?
Using a rough count of fanfiction and sites by couple, Fred/Wesley is more popular than Riley/Buffy and Willow/Kennedy, but not by much.
Edited to add: I'm not bitter!!
I swear !!

[ edited by drlloyd11 on 2013-03-20 20:34 ]
I don't get the logic of "seeing Amy and Alexis in Much Ado is like having Fred and Wesley back" reasoning. Those are completely different characters, and the Beatrice and Benedick dynamic is the polar opposite of Fred and Wesley. Personally, I never bought the latter as a couple in season 5, which is no fault of the actors, but of the poor writing, but I can't wait to see Amy and Alexis play one of the most interesting couples in classic literature.

If Jasmine, Caleb and Marcus Hamilton were to meet, would you think they would make a lovable crew together? Would you dream of a crossover Jasmine/Alpha romance?
@DaddyCat - Pretty much. Both Xander's romances in Anya and Cordy had a sort of cartoonish quality in that while both characters felt human, the traits of both were a bit on the extreme end. By the time Fred and Wes got together, Fred was still a little goofy, but it wasn't close to extreme.
@TimeTravellingBunny - That's interesting. Fred and Wesley were not a particularly important pairing for me, while Much Ado is hugely important on a personal level and Beatrice and Benedick probably THE most interesting couple for me in classic literature, if not all literature, full stop. But I STILL see the fascination and understand what makes people so emotional about this reunion.

To everyone who said they'll probably cry in the cinema - I'll probably be right there with you, sobbing both for my beloved Beatrice and Benedick and the reunion of Fred and Wesley.
As Wesley was my favorite character, I personally though Fred and Wesley was one of the better relationships in the Buffyverse (and oh the fall... how brutal it was). So it should be nice to see the Denisof/Acker pairing on screen again.
TimeTravelingBunny darling: It's just how certain fans see characters, while other fans don't react that way. It's akin to calling Vincent Schiavelli's unnamed phantom character in Ghost "Uncle Enyos." Or David Niven jokingly describing Laurence Olivier's and Vivien Leigh's beachhouse as the place where "Scarlet and Heathcliff" were hiding from the press.
And, while some of those combos are interesting to contemplate, the only inter-Whedon pairing I've ever tried is Kennedy-Bennett in my "Ice Age Buffy" 'verse. (I tried slashing Willow with Dr. KErrie Weaver from _ER_ but got disgusted with myself after two pages.

vewgetaman: I once said it's interetsing that of the two most gut-wrenching romances in the Buffyverse, one each of the actors from those pairings are married in rela life. But I've never been able to find the symbolic significance.
I think, ahd Fred stayed with Gunn, Wes could've moved on. (In one of my 'verse he's with Anya, in another wiht Harmony, but he's with Fred in my main one.)
@TimeTravellingBunny: Well, there really isn't any "logic" or "reasoning" to get. I freely acknowledge it.

For me, the attachment to the pairing isn't centered around their brief couple-hood in season 5. It's been a long time since this first aired, so it's hard to be sure, but I think I stated to find the relationship between these two characters as something interesting and something I could become invested in back in the season 3 episode "Billy". (I guess Joss is right (duh!) - and that pain really does make relationships more interesting (at least, when it's not happening to you personally)). It's the long evolution of the relationship that gives its eventually tragedy its sting, I think.
If just this article--and the photo within--was enough to make me cry (don't judge me! haha), I can only imagine the sobbing mess I will be when I see Much Ado in the theater. Oh dear.
Yes, Wes is the most complex 'verse-character. I think the Fred/Wes romance would have affected more people (if "A Hole in the World" did not affect you, you have no soul, btw) if their romance wasn't perceived as one-sided or non-existent for more than half an episode.
@alittlebitbison I too started caring about the Fred/Wes relationship during the episode Billy but I hope Beatrice and Benedick are forefront on my mind when I see Much Ado June 7th and only later will I rejoice in Fred and Wes.
That's just the way the narrative in Angel was written. Fred occupied a Xander/Anyaish place in it in that really the writers didn't spend a whole lot of time weaving in drama for her until very specific "Fred" episodes. It's not a flaw anymore than Buffy was flawed for concentrating on Willow And Buffy.

I suppose I was always able to backfill Fred's motivation because I assumed her to have a long history with Wes, knowledge that he had liked her, and that she had come to grips with the idea she liked him to. So to me it always came across as mutual and the writing staff expected me to be able to keep up in the same way it expected me to GET Cordy and Xander's sexual tension. I didn't need scenes of Cordy and Xander pining for each other silently.

So yea, it could have been written in a way that absolutely spelled everything out to a level that it had an impact on more people. But when Fred's passion matched Wesley's own, our experience with Wesley allowed it to work for some of us without that additional information.
@Valantha: Oh yes, absolutely. The movie will stand alone as it's own thing and I'm not saying I'm in danger of conflating Bea & Ben with Fred & Wes. All I mean is that there would be a subtle undercurrent, an almost unconscious layering, that will feel like closure for Fred & Wes. I'm really looking forward to seeing this movie for a whole lot of other reasons than just to see Amy & Alexis perform, but I will be interested to see if they still have the on screen chemistry they once had.
@CaptainB: I guess I have no soul then, since I think A Hole in the World was shamelessly melodramatic, in the bad way, and the Mary Sue-ing and fridging of Fred makes me want to puke. The "my boys" scene was cringeworthy.

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