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May 14 2013

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. to air Tuesdays at 8pm this Fall. A dancing show will be moving out of the way for our agents.

Who will the show be up against?
Wow, just realized how openly stereotypical ABC's Thursday line-up is. That just screams "hey we internally call this Girls-night programming."

Also weird that they don't pair S.H.I.E.L.D. with anything from the genre family. Why couldn't they just NOT cancel Last Resort last year? ...

@Simon:

FOX has
8:00-8:30 p.m. - "Dads"
8:30-9:00 p.m. - "Brooklyn Nine-Nine"

NBC has
Tuesday: 8, The Biggest Loser

...

can't find any Fall schedules for the other networks yet.

[ edited by D-e-f- on 2013-05-14 17:16 ]
It's up against NCIS.

I'm absolutely cool with that. It's a ridiculously good slot and a bold move by ABC as all the programming that night is new, so they're clearly thinking the show will perform.
@gossi, Isn't it kind of dangerous to pit Agents of SHIELD against NCIS which has a large male audience? Won't they compete for the same type of audience?

[ edited by BuffyFirefly on 2013-05-14 17:18 ]
SHIELD has Lola. (I'm not worried).
NCIS is a fairly straightforward procedural.

SHIELD is a superhero action show. I don't think the crossover is so big that it's in danger of stealing people from SHIELD.
This is perfect for me since it does not interfere with any of the other shows I watch.I don't even have anything on Tusedays currently.
To be fair, D-e-f-, Last Resort was not remotely part of the same genre as S.H.I.E.L.D. and it was a really, truly terrible show. And if you're referring to Grey's Anatomy, that show has been on Thursdays for a long time. It makes sense to put Grey's and Scandal on the same night, as Shonda Rhimes created both and the audiences are similar.

Monday nights on ABC are very female oriented as well. The audience for Castle definitely skews female. And Sunday nights are a show about fairy tales and two melodramatic soap-ish shows called Revenge and Betrayal. So ABC isn't exactly stereotypical since it skews for a female demographic anyway.

BuffyFirefly, NCIS and S.H.I.E.L.D. do not really share the same audience. NCIS skews much older, roughly in the 40 to 65 age range. CBS has been trying to get a younger audience, but the majority of its demographic is much older than the one S.H.I.E.L.D. is aiming for. Also, I'm not sure about the "large male audience." It does have a male audience, but middle aged women totally watch NCIS. They would not watch S.H.I.E.L.D.

[ edited by the ninja report on 2013-05-14 17:24 ]
ABC head on timeslot: “We think it’s going to recruit a whole new audience coming in. We think it has a built-in audience [due to The Avengers]. And we don’t think the audience is necessarily the same as NCIS.”
NCIS? the one from the infamous scene "2 idiots 1 keyboard"? I think we're pretty safe then

Nuff' said.
Dawn's in trouble. Must be Tuesday.
Seems like a very smart move. Most weren't considering Tuesday 8pm, cause there where DwtS result show used to be, might be a game changer. Just wished there were more interesting shows that "AoS" will lead out into, but it does fit in the pattern of ABC attempting a secondary comedy block on Tuesdays at 9PM.

ETA: Good point Eddy, Tuesday 8PM is such an amazing Whedonesque time-slot.

[ edited by Numfar PTB on 2013-05-14 17:37 ]
@the ninja report: I strongly disagree with Last Resort being terrible. But let's not get into that here.

As for the Thursday thing, I meant he trio of fairy tale (once upon a time spin-off), hospital drama (grey's) and whatever scandal actually is.
This is the best/worst news ever. Clearly ABC hate/love the pilot by giving a decent/crappy timeslot. I wouldn't be surprised if the pilot did Lost numbers/died the death in ratings. Even though it's May, I should warn fans that we need to prepare ourselves for cancellation/early renewal.
@D-e-f-, Scandal is a political drama.

I agree that Thursday is very female-oriented. But my point was so was Monday and Sunday. The entire network is female-oriented.

Simon, I think the issue is that ABC doesn't really have a lot of action-oriented television to pair with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. It should have paired it with something that had a big lead-in audience, like Dancing with the Stars. Castle could have been moved and survived.

ETA: nevermind about the question I had.

[ edited by the ninja report on 2013-05-14 17:42 ]
Hey...that was Buffy's timeslot! (ETA: As eddy already pointed out, more clever-like.)

[ edited by ghostofdurruti on 2013-05-14 17:45 ]

[ edited by ghostofdurruti on 2013-05-14 17:45 ]
I think it is better on a Tuesday instead of Thursdays when it would be up against the ratings powerhouse of The Big Bang Theory which most definitely has a crossover in audience.

I think it was Alan Sepinwall over at HitFix who said last week ABC hasn't had a Thursday 8pm hit in something like 20 years. I'm glad they didn't risk putting the show there.
It should have paired it with something that had a big lead-in audience, like Dancing with the Stars. Castle could have been moved and survived.


I think AoS is going to be one of those rare shows that will be bullet proof. I'm not feeling the angst that I had with Dollhouse, instead the exact opposite.
@the ninja report -- I know several middle-aged women planning to watch S.H.I.E.L.D.. They just may not be the same ones watching NCIS.
This show is anchoring the night out of the gate. No pressure guys!
swanjun, oh surely there are plenty of older female geeks out there. But like you said, they're not the same ones watching NCIS. I wasn't stereotyping, just pointing out NCIS' tried and true demographic.

Simon, is the lack of angst partly to do with the plot? S.H.I.E.L.D. is pretty straightforward, whereas Dollhouse seemed a little muddled in the beginning.
@Simon, "I think AoS is going to be one of those rare shows that will be bullet proof. I'm not feeling the angst that I had with Dollhouse, instead the exact opposite."

Also, Joss Whedon is well known now thanks to The Avengers and he wrote and directed the pilot and will serve as executive producer along with Jed and Marissa who will be the showrunners.
We know the audience is there. When CBS made the big gamble and moved The Big Bang Theory from it's original Monday time-slot, and had it become their main anchor for the competitive Thursday line-up, I don't think the networks execs thought it would as successful as it become.

I'm glad it is not facing TBBT as there might be some overlap, or even crowded on Wednesdays, where it be facing genre shows like Revolution and probably Arrow (The CW has yet to unveild their 2013-2014 schedule).

I think Simon said it well, might just "be one of those rare shows that will be bullet proof".
Middle aged woman right here who has never seen a single ep of NCIS. :) AoS would never take the 10 pm Castle slot. It is squarely an 8pm show and means to get a very young audience including kids. ABC put together a great sched. I would have switched Once Upon a Time with it's spin off but that's just me. Also wondering where Tricia Helfer's Killer Women is. Can't wait for that.
i dont know a single person who watches NCIS but apparently its a ratings juggernaut.
eddy, I know precisely three people who watch it. I used to, but it get old hat after a few seasons. It is a huuuge juggernaut. Part of it is that I think that its audience skews older and I believe older people are less likely to have DVRs, and so must watch live.
Simon, is the lack of angst partly to do with the plot? S.H.I.E.L.D. is pretty straightforward, whereas Dollhouse seemed a little muddled in the beginning.


Partly. S.H.I.E.L.D. can be sold as "goodies versus baddies" to the general public whereas Dollhouse was complex and morally ambiguous right from the start. Far harder sell. I would imagine we will get some very dark plotlines from SHIELD down the line but ABC doesn't have to sell that part of the show.

Also you can't get a bigger lead-in than The Avengers.
You don't know the middle-aged women I know. If you show it they will come!
I think I might have seen NCIS once, because Nicholas Brendon was on it, but just not my cup of tea. Other than that don't know anyone who follows it religiously,
Next season's Tuesdays 8pm:

CBS: NCIS
ABC: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D
NBC: The Biggest Loser
FOX: Dads/Brooklyn 9-9
The CW: probably Hart of Dixie

ABC already tried the superhero family friendly action drama in the same timeslot (= No Ordinary Family) and it bombed. I think AoS will premiere big and then it will settle for 2nd place behind NCIS. Good enough for a s2 renewal.
I assumed SHIELD would pair with Once Upon a Time on Sundays. However, I like this slot - and I like how they're using the show. It doesn't get a show pulling in an audience for it - it is pulling in audiences for other shows to capitalize upon. They have a lot of confidence in it. I would not be surprised to see them give a full second season pick up *before* the pilot airs.
I would also add that Dollhouse had this huge sex angle which would have made parents wary of letting their youngl children watch it, but Agents of SHIELD is based on comic books. Most parents will just assume that it will be kid friendly (whether that turns out to be true or not is beside the point).

My cousin likes to eat her dinner in front of NCIS, it is easy to follow and the good guys always win. I think that Agents of SHIELD will definitely pull in the coveted younger male demo. NCIS does have a faithful following, but even if they win the over all ratings, they will lose (IMO) the coveted demo. I think Tuesday is the best slot for it.

I don't think the results of 'No Ordinary Family' apply since it really didn't have the Marvel's AVENGERS spring board.
I would not misjudge NCIS. It is currently the most popular program on TV, it has Mark Harmon, and more importantly it has a culturally beloved side character, Abby Sciuto, played by Pauley Perrette (voted most popular TV character). It has a ship- TiVa. I know Simon made a play on the kinds of comments we might expect, it will succeed/fail, etc. And I know this is all possible. But for me this is a real dilemma. I like NCIS, a lot. I do not own, and will not own, Tivo (which is not TiVa). So how do I see them both? I would have preferred a different time slot, though I see the logic in this one.
Probably be on Hulu or ABC's online catchup service?
ABC shows tend to stream next-day.
Also you can't get a bigger lead-in than The Avengers.

This.
All ABC shows stream on Hulu.
Has to be a little disheartening in practical terms to be told with almost certainty that they won't be winning their time slot, though. Coulson is many things; Gibbs isn't one of them. But, that said, I totally expect the Marvel effect to make AOS the top new prime time show for next season.
How can there even be a dilemma between a new Joss show and anything else? :D
Re: next-day streaming -- ABC's making some changes in how they stream their shows

This week, the network will add live streaming video to its iPhone and iPad apps, the New York Times reports. However, the feature will only work if you have a cable or satellite TV subscription.

That’s not all. The report also claims that in the future, ABC will “withhold its most recent TV episodes from the free versions of Hulu and ABC.com, further limiting access to paying subscribers of cable and satellite providers only.”

http://techland.time.com/2013/05/13/abc-to-stream-live-tv-in-fight-against-cord-cutters/
Tuesdays at 8pm! Got it, screw the PTA.
That wouldn't bother me so much if I could get a consistent over-the-air signal from my local ABC affiliate. Sigh.
Another issue. Avengers was a movie but it is not technically a lead-in. It's a tie-in. That said, it is clear that Disney is loading up the TV, with both SHIELD and OUATIW set to start. And with OUAT (the original show) already loading up Disney-related stuff, I wonder if there might not the chance of a backlash. I think it is likely that SHIELD will be the strongest of the new shows, but the entire TV world is changing and network TV is suffering a huge decline, which was the point of a lead article in the NYT today.
Head of ABC sez: "We don’t normally talk about testing, but [Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.] tested so well in all four quadrants [of the television demographic]. Joss Whedon knows how to create great television with great relationships at the heart of it. It has relationships and humor but also the promise of the Marvel franchise… We think it’s driven by character and will bring a wider audience to us."

He also referred to it as a "blockbuster show".
It feels weird to feel allowed to hope for the longevity of a Joss show.
I pretty much disagree with every single thing the ninja report has posted. For one thing, Last Resort was a great show. And I happen to know that Once Upon a Time has a large male audience, but I digress. And frankly, Buffy, Firefly, Once Upon a Time, and S.H.I.E.L.D do indeed share the same audience. They're called geeks, or nerds depending on who you ask. Anyway...

This is great news! I can't believe I'm getting another Whedon show, and in a genre that he should be comfortable in. Tuesday does not interfere with my personal viewing schedule either.

I am slightly concerned about it going up against NCIS though, which is a ratings juggernaut despite it being pretty much a crap show. NCIS, The Walking Dead, and The Big Bang Theory just seem to dominate the ratings these days. Game of Thrones has also been increasing in viewership since its season premiere, but I don't know where its ratings fall in the grand scheme of things.

I'm optimistic though. Hopefully, the huge numbers The Avengers got will translate into ratings for this show

[ edited by Angel&Faith on 2013-05-14 20:15 ]
I've never watched NCIS, although Criminal Minds is an obsession because of Spencer Reid, the team dynamic which is unique and very unusual for a procedural, and the writers all being so friendly and accessible. I guess I'm "middle-aged", but that conjures imagery of Far Side clothes and beehives and catseye glasses so forgive me if I don't self-identify that way.

No fucking WAY I'm missing AoS. GREAT time slot - YAY!
I don't really understand the ratings NCIS gets. Personally, and this may be a bias, I think most cop and procedural shows on TV today are garbage, including NCIS, The Mentalist, etc, etc. I think shows like Bones and Castle only get mentioned around here so much because of Whedon alums, not because they are actually great programming. Plus, we all love Nathan Filion cause he's awesome.

But then again, when you've watched the brilliance that was The Wire, it becomes hard to ever enjoy another cop or preocedural show again. I do want to watch The Shield at some point though. I heard it was a good show and from the same guy who did Last Resort
Angel&Faith, we'll agree to disagree on Last Resort. But nowhere at all did I say that no male on Earth watched Once Upon a Time. ABC invests in a lot of shows that typically attract a lot of women, which is true. I did not say it didn't attract any men.

And also, I was saying that Last Resort and S.H.I.E.L.D. are not of the same genre, which I still believe. I did not say anything about Buffy or Firefly's genres, only their audiences, which are not the same as NCIS' audience.

I'm starting to get the idea that we're all getting defensive about...what, I don't know. But I obviously want Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. to succeed just like everyone else. I'm highlighting that certain audiences will tune in for this show, but not others, and vice versa. Also, at no point did I say every middle aged woman on Earth watched NCIS. So I don't know why people are getting defensive about that.

I do completely agree with you about The Wire, and about the blandness of procedural television. But The Wire is just on a whole different level than a good deal of television, especially run of the mill procedurals.

[ edited by the ninja report on 2013-05-14 20:31 ]
Angel & Faith, you might also check out Homicide: Life on the Street. It was a great show, and also created by the guy behind The Wire. :)
"Three Men and Adena" remains one of the greatest things TV has ever done.
No one has mentioned that "Dads" is starring Seth Green. That's a conflict for Oz fans at the 8 o'clock hour.
Although NCIS pulls in huge overall numbers (17 million!), it barely reaches 3.0 in the demo. By The Demo I mean 18-49. Advertisers pay $$$$ for the demo as that income group buys things like cars and iPhones. Hence why The Big Bang Theory cast are picking up decent salaries every episode. If AoS moved directly opposite Big Bang, that 18-49 would take a direct hit as those geeks may well be watching Big Bang, the biggest show in 18-49 on television. If you're against NCIS, where a big chunk of the audience isn't that demographic... You could find a decent audience to watch your show.

In Captain Dummy talk, ABC will be saying "Hey kids! There's a show about people investigating aliens and superheroes and the only other thing on is NCIS".
gossi, you said everything I was trying to say, but better. Of course there are people who are older than 49 who buy iPhones and stuff, but they're not the majority. That's what I was trying to get at. NCIS' audience is older than the one S.H.I.E.L.D. wants and it doesn't really have to compete with NCIS.

[ edited by the ninja report on 2013-05-14 20:51 ]
Well, I'm feeling completely dissed. Here I am a middle-aged woman who watches NCIS and I will watch SHIELD. And as Gossi points out, what ABC is going for here is the all important 18-49 demo. Even American Idol doesn't out pull NCIS in pure numbers, but it does in the demo. So now those of you who say they don't know anyone who watches the show, can say you do - in a virtual sort of way.
The 18-49 is the very demo that is leaving broadcast TV in huge numbers. It may be desired, but it is declining.
AOS dosn't have to win the night to be a huge success. ABC wants as many viewers as it can get each time slot. AOS has a great chance of getting them their best possible ratings at that time slot live plus there will be DVR appeal for those who can't watch when the show airs. AOS will have a built in audience coming in to see if the show is good. It will be on Joss&Co to create a show that people will make a point to watch live.

I don't think we should be worrying about if the show can win the night. ABC knows it's taking a chance with a new show as lead in but they know they have a a boat load of potential to create a mainstay on their network and perhaps even cut into the ratings NCIS gets and weakening the other network a bit...
It's quite possible that NCIS will cream it (though I only watched that once because Jonathan Woodward was in it.) It's a huge show and will have the same demographic.

I hope not, though. The trailer looks awesome.

DWTS isn't on all the time, and hopefully the results show will be at 9pm. What? Go Kelly Pickler!

[ edited by redeem147 on 2013-05-14 23:49 ]
Is it fool-hearty to assume that since the movie did pretty well the closest TV analogue might also be as successful? I mean I just assume it's going to trounce basically any other Whedon show's first season at the very least and considering how some of those did surprisingly well despite ratings...

Granted I'm not sure if this is a matter like high-profile NBC sitcoms that don't do as well as they hope/pushed and are unceremoniously buried. (I looked it up though and I guess the non-Community sitcoms they heavily pushed did even worse than I thought.)

[ edited by orangewaxlion on 2013-05-15 01:21 ]
Last season OUAT was a "semi surprising self starting success" a show that was high concept and risky and absolutely could only be on ABC. And it was a big success. Ratings have declined in S2 but it is still the best ABC can get @ 8pm as self starter.

They are hoping AOS will be all that and more "perfect corporate synergy" leading in to the next MCU movies and expanding that universe. Tuesday @ 8pm is as good as ABC can place it. It was unlikely to dislodge OUAT from Sunday at this point, they're trying to rescue DWTS on Mondays, Wednesdays are a comedy success and Thursday at 8pm is both insanely competitive and historically bad for ABC. And this has never been a 10 pm show, Castle, Scandal and Nashville's placements don't really affect it.

I have enjoyed past seasons of NCIS, though I haven't been a regular viewer since S6. It's probably unlikely that AOS will outperform it in total viewers over the season but the demo is most certainly up for grabs. In fact these days the NCIS demo, whilst being very good in general for TV, is not great for one of the only shows that can still command between 17-25 mill viewers.
Hey, I just realized all the things we are saying about NCIS is the same things my friends say to me about Buffy... they don't get it...

AOS has a strong built-in advantage in that the characters are already known, at least by some. It has a disadvantage in that all the characters are known by some, but not all... And since it is in the Marvel/Disney universe, this ups the challenge on Joss to write the story he wishes to tell, without interference from TPTB. Could be subversive!
Few Broadcast show skews male. They skew female, more female or even more female, with very very rare exceptions.

In 2010 TVBYTHENUMBERS ran the numbers and found that exactly 3 non-animated shows, in the week preceding the article's publication, out of all the shows then on the 5 Networks, skewed more male than female. They were Chuck, Fringe and 24. RIP. 24 is returning and maybe a new show or two has stepped into the gap in the meantime, but even if that's true then it's still practically nothing.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2010/04/28/ladies-night-few-broadcast-primetime-shows-draw-more-men-than-women/50011/

[ edited by Risch22 on 2013-05-15 12:18 ]
As a male I have to say I watch alot less network TV than I used to. Most tv shows look like garbage. The only network shows I currently watch are HIMYM and TBBT.(and occasionally TAAHM, please dont kill me.) The few shows I do watch are on cable: TWD and GOT. Most guys I know rather play video games or go out instead of watching boring tv shows.
I'm a guy right smack dab in the middle of the illustrious "demo" who watches NCIS and will definitely be watching AoS. Fortunately with things like DVRs and On Demand I am not forced to choose... but I had no idea that I was so unusual in that regard.

(I did read somewhere that NCIS is hugely popular with conservatives, which I am emphatically not, so I guess I am unusual in that regard. I don't quite get the appeal to conservatives of a show about government employees doing a good job, though)

@Dana5140: how do you get a ship name "TiVa" with an uppercase V? Surely more like Tova (for letter-count-equality) or perhaps "DiNoVa" :)

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